How do you counter the "Communism has never happened" meme?

>>123895820
I'm Chinese, my grandpa was the son of a landlord, he was tortured by commies when he was 15, they dislocated his arm and made him kneel on glass. He managed to escape to Hong Kong, Communism has left a severe impact on him....
I play the victim card

>>123895820
'you're totally right, by the way I have this cool helicopter want a free ride?'

>>123895820

'Exactly, and why is that? Because anytime someone with good intentions tries to set something up, someone with a darker nature comes along and kills them and THATS THAT.

Isn't the 70+ examples of "not real communism" that have been tried and failed in the past 100 years proof enough that your ideal cannot and will not manifest itself given human nature.

Just tell them that Capitalism never happened either.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJv3mJnO5Bs

He first has to prove it never happened, why would you need to counter a baseless bs claim?

>>123895820
It didn't though.

Communists and socialism did happen though.

>>123895820
>define communism
>define socialism
>define Marxism

These are the three things you must first get off the lefty before delving into a discussion in this realm. The way Marx has described his shit is like that of a serpent, twisting and turning and never able to be pinned down. Just when you think you have it caught it slithers out from beneath you. It doesn't matter if the Bible of the state is das capital these people will never accept it was the real deal because the real deal has never been properly defined because the way it was written was a mess.

Almost genius in a way, now his ideas can propagate forever through mankind causing untold suffering and pain while never copping blame because it was simply never implemented correctly.

Beware the definition tricks of leftists, it's the same way they shall claim the free market economies of Scandi countries is a testament to their ideology while Venezuela is simply it being implemented correctly.

>>123896443
Funny in that what we have now is a form of mutated and disgusting crony capitalism with governmental control and interventions all over the market. Yet here we have this mutated form of capitalism able to provide so much our people's main issue is eating too much while all forms of socialism end in hunger.

>>123896571
Communism has never happened because all those countries that said they were communist were authoritarian and authoritarianism is a form of fascism.

as in ' oh that wasnt real communism'.

Well what i would say to that is two pronged.

Accepting for a moment that the premise is true, that the result was not true communism, why is it that the people that you literally fly on your flags, that you admire in history as idols were unable to realise 'true communism'. For surely, the literal icons of your movements history were, as you are now, seeking 'true communism.' If they failed, if they brought your movement into disrepute with their actions they why are they still idolised.

And in follow up to that, what makes you so special. What makes you better than your idols, in your approach or ideas that will make you able to attain true communism, to not be the people that wanabee communists point to in 100 years and say ' oh that was not true communism'. Like your predecessors you believe that violence is necessary and should be embraced to take power. What will you do with those that dissent when you try to take power. How will you prevent the armed masses that you empower from carrying out another deklukanization, or will it simply be considered a 'necessary evil'.

If true communism has never happened, it does not distance communism in any way shape or form from the horrifying nightmares that resulted from every previous communist groups attempt at 'true communism'. And the behaviour of modern day communists, in glorifying and repeating their fuck ups of the past gives people every reason to lump them in with their past abortive failures.

>>123895820
By letting communism take over your country so that all the communists can die in yet another failed attempt at communism.

SOMEONE POST THE PICTURE
YOU KNOW WHICH ONE
"HEY MAO WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"
"COMMUNISM :D'

THAT ONE

Honestly showing that picture usually ends most arguments, and gets commies extremely butthurt on /his/

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>>123897719
Just for you anon.

>>123896962

W-wait what?

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>>123895820
"And it never should"

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>>123895820
Tell him this and do it in a mocking tone:

>>123895820
Why do you post Macron ? This guy is as far of communism as possible. Trump is more of a communist than him.

>>123896260
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAirFpUl97k

>>123895820
>Communism is the final stage of successful socialism (dixit Marx himself)
>Socialism is never successful, so, yes, you're right, communism has never been tried

>>123898076
>Why do you post Macron ? This guy is as far of communism as possible.

So naive its borderline cute

>>123896375
Also this is a good one. Every time socialism has been tried, it went spectacularly wrong. So either admit that it doesn't work, or admit that you think you are better than every socialist before you, including red messiahs like Lenin c.s.

>>123896962
Yes, man. Communism is all about peace and love and flower power. Man. Said so in das capital.

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>>123895820

i simply don't get it, that people still fall for this logical fallacy of lalala everybody equal, love, peace happiness bullshit.

how can one believe, that when you give the power to a certain group/institution to take away another groups wealth, they will take the shit and redistribute it equally, instead of keeping it.

really astonishing how dumb and naive these left wing morons are.

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>>123898076
spotted

>>123898364
Hey let's do business with absolutly no rules and no taxs for them !
> communism

Yeah. Sure.

>>123895820
Because it can't happen, that's why it has never happened. It fundamentally misaligns with human nature.

>>123898686
This

/thread

>>123898570
Marx never even spoke about communism in das kapital.

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>>123895820
The truth about immigration, by the numbers:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Cultural Marxist Jews Admit Organizing White Genocide

The plan to eliminate the white race:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOgkGzMdieI

Cultural Marxism in action… Political Correctness, the tip of the blade:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6c_dinY3fM

Cultural Marxism & Social Justice Explained:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqIj8C2Aek

Why are we in Decline - Cultural Marxism:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VggFao85vTs

also see

The facts about slavery in North America:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tci36bNjg

Cultural Marxist Jews fund media propaganda against whites on an enormous scale:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Ojbi6lXQI

Does this sound familiar at all? (starting at 6:52)

>https://youtu.be/kPdxhLUKZYM?list=PLo0ThsDnveH5nv5TNviBrGTX9P6IrYfIe&t=412

The Holocaust:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPc899uUb-A

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgGP_evkvOk

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxpIsep4160

>>123898686
>we can change the nature of man
>we can make it so man no longer has a desire to possess things
>we can remove the desire for more from mans breast
>we can make man happy to plow the field all day and return home to his commie block filled with 8 comrades

Its as if this shit was written by an autist who had never once talked with his fellow man. Never once asked what it is in life his brothers aspire to, dream of, wish and hope for. I think Marx might be the deadliest autist of all time

>>123895820
Actually, it happened in Cuba.

>>123895820
Point out that real National Socialism has never been tried either.

>>123895820
>You dont mean that 'REAL Marxism has never been tried'
>You mean that if YOU were in charge and been given absolute power, everything would have been perfect because youre an absolute perfect moral being
>But 1. You arent moral at all, your a piece of shit
>And 2. Even if you were perfectly moral and managed to run everything perfectly, there would be about 10000 other people coming to kill you and take it all for them selves
>stop being a selfish prick faggot kike piece of trash who thinks that if they were given all the power, utopia would dawn upon humanity
because thats what these people actually think.
They GENUINELY believe that, if there were made the ultimate adjudicator of right and wrong, good and bad, oppressor vs opressed, they would usher in an ETERNAL UTOPIA.
And its completely insane.

>>123898904
Kek, every once in a while, /pol/ still brings me new insights

>>123898686
/thredd

>>123898775
Yea, man,it was about peace love and grass.

>>123899616
Man

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>>123895820
Communism has never happened but it also never will because it makes no fucking sense as an economic system and will immediately collapse or be taken over/co-opted by something else. The only way communism can be maintained is with a state and we all know how that turns out.

Communists think people will work hard for no reason, give away their works for free, and only use what they need. Just how delusional can you be?

>>123895820
Just point out that the problem you have is not just with communism, but with attempts to transition society into communism. Because even if, say, Russia did not achieve communism, they certainly attempted to. So call out the parallels between these and recent attempts.

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macron.... the global toff cuck

It's true because communism is unachievable.

>>123899809
>The only way communism can be maintained is with a state and we all know how that turns out.
communism is inherently anti-state.

You don't have communism when you have a state.

>>123898136
cool song Chang

>>123900074
>Everyone will get exactly what is deemed fit for him/her and a giant, countrywide system will distribute this and see that everyone contributes enough
>This is possible without an immense state

It's technically right that communism never happened, but that only proves that any attempt to reach it ultimately fails. In Vargs words "that is what you get" - This really only discredits Leninism and assorted ideologies, but thats enough since Anarchists are useless and Marx himself thought there would magix spontaneous revolution.

Anyway, you guys need to stop whining about "muh grand-grandpa was tortured" and "remember the 700 quadrillion!!" you sound like jews

>>123900074
Yeah, we know how it goes. Create an all controlling all powerful state during socialism and then at the very end when the time is right to reach full communism all party leaders are to relinquish their hotels and limos, they shall step down and give up all their power and join the people and we shall witness this giant state apparatus simply disappear.

If only we could get through that glitch of people not wanting to plow fields after living like kings in the party headquarters. Maybe we'll figure it out one day

>>123899809
Commies are lying when they say they thing people will work hard. They just think society can and should be organised like one massive extended family in which DNA, and hence propagation is shared, so that (a) it doesn't matter how much cross-subsidy there is and (b) authority is benevolent. They lack the adoptions required for large non-family societies. This affects their outlook *and* the way they express that outlook.

An argument far more effective than "communism has been tried and has failed" is "communism cannot be achieved". It is true that there has "never been real communism", because there has never been a society where capitalism and the state have both been abolished. Millions of people attempted to implement communism all over the world throughout the 20th century but in the 21st century it is a minority belief that doesn't leave university campuses or cities. That's because historical materialism is wrong. Marx was wrong.
It's better to attack communism with arguments for private property rights. Then you are debunking communism and arguing for capitalism at the same time.

>>123900337
Leftie anarchists want communism too.

stop pretending as if communists demand a state in the middle.

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>>123900224
That's the problem with communism, it's an inherently contradictory ideology. It simply makes no fucking sense. Communists would be taken more seriously if they would just admit Marx was a fucking moron and try to come up with a new system.

>>123900610
Agreed, but then they wouldn't be communists

>>123895820
National Socialism has never happened

>>123900289
>Stop whining
what are you talking about, about 120 million people really died, because of a sick ideology. And no its not the implementation, its the whole core thats rotten.

>>123898573
People are taught that everyone is equal from an early age. Especially in the US cuz muh democracy. Commie shit is just an extension of that. Especially at universities.

>>123895820
With a second holocaust, kek.

>>123895820

It's an arbitrary way of thinking.

Oh communism was never really tried?

Neither was capitalism, Fascism, national socialism, democracy, Christianity etc

>>123896962
c-c-cant work out if serious...

>>123895820
It hasn't because it's not possible at this time. Humans need to evolve alot as a society before people agree to work together. A Utopia is what commies speak of. But you can't force that. It needs to happen naturally.

>>123895820
a kar98

>>123895820
With a Molymeme. Because that's a no true Scotsman fallacy. Which is also not an argument.

>>123901738
this is literally the prevailing logic, god help us all

"If it has been tried so many times in so many countries but it has never succeeded, maybe Communism itself is the problem."

Tell them that fascism never happened either.

Tell them it was just Hitlerism or Mussolinism.

>>123895820
Ask them why theyrr denying holodomor. Put them on the defensive, make them a genocide denier.

>>123896962
How do you want to force people to share the wealth without using force/being authoritarian?????

Look at the principles of communism, or any other collectivist ideology. Insofar as a society sacrifices its betters for the sake of others, we've seen nothing but degradation. Yet insofar as we've protected society's most fundamental unit--the individual--we've seen skyrocketing progress the likes of which have been unwitnessed in human history.

The proper principle is obvious.

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>>123895820
Simple logic.

How many Communist revolutions have there been?

What were the result of those dozens of Communist revolutions if not Communism?

Then why should we try another Communist revolution?

There are simple moral arguments as well, but anyone saying "Communism has never happened" is probably beyond saving to begin with. Making it clear you're not as easily brainwashed as them with logic is easier.

>>123903260
You can't that's the problem. Anarcho-communism ends with state communism. That's what I don't get about these people. They always say people should share and i agree but you can't force that without creating suffering. They seem to think they can Force a Utopia into existence. Regardless, we'll never see that in our lifetime but we should work towards making life alot easier for everyone. Then we can move forward and down the line we may achieve this. I can't bring myself to hate those people but they need to understand what they're doing is a terrible idea. I won't be able to havechildren if we continue down this path.

>>123895820
I just stop talking to that person.
If they honestly believe that communism has never been tried they are beyond hope anyway.

>>123895820
Point and laugh, then walk away

>>123895820

Everytime 'communism' is implemented, it ends up the same way. Across the vastly diverse and disparate cultures in which a communist party managed to gain leadership, the end results are barely distinguishable from each other: complete subjugation of the masses, no freedom of speech, grinding poverty, starvation, purges, and so on.

Whether that kind of communism is the true vision of Marx or not is irrelevant. The record of history tells us that a communist leadership always ends up with the same fucked up results. That's the REAL 'real communism'.

>>123895820
>It has never happened properly.
>because it is impossible to do it properly.
>because it is incompatible with human nature.

During soviet ocupation of czechoslovakia, the comunist goverment claimed that 100% People voted them. IT was more like 99% but those Who didn't faced some harsh consequences. My grandfather was oné of them. My father knew that his teacher was part of the voting commite so He Made sure to study to make 100% on his final exam which He did. Failed anyway And so his dream of being footbal couch died. His Mother lost her job As a teacher. He never blamed His father though. He is a great man. He would have all communists executed and so would I.

>>123896375
To be fair that's the fault of the person doing the killing.

>>123897819
Thanks baby

>>123896931
Marx genuinely had different definitions in mind than did most people later.

>>123898573
Some versions of socialism and communism skip or minimize the governmental phase bit.

first of all it wouldn't be a crazy argument to say that capitalism has nevr happened. and most of the things that are bad about capitalism is actually breaking the rules of capitalism.
but humans don't abide by rules just because somebody wrote them in a book. communism still has humans involved.

>>123899002
Not really. They just believe that if someone other than a megalomaniac like Stalin were in power, the results would be different. Of course, people who just directly quote Jordan Peterson videos filled with strawmen wouldn't know this because they're busy eating from the trashcan of ideology.

>>123895820
>Macron
>commie
kek

>>123904574
>>123904383
>>123904255
>>123904857

communism is a crime against humanity, how many people have to die and countries have to be ruined before you give it up?

>communism didn't happen
It did. My family was shot in a ditch or send to gulags.
Fuck communism

>>123903949
Marxist-Leninist states in particular often had serious human rights issues, but the results were by no means identical in every case.

By playing their own game

>National Socialism has never happened
>Germany was never a truly Nationalist Socialist country
>You're so ignorant if you think otherwise.

>>123895820
By pointing each instances of communism and adding "but it wasnt real communism", and concluding that saying otherwise woukd be a conspiracy theory.
Not only you 2-bird-1-stone both communism and leftard defense of their own shit, but you open up a window versus the whole "this is an exception" whenever they try to defend rampant problems stemming from one of their pets.

>>123895820
Not a real helicopter ride. Also ask Cubans about communism.

>>123903457
Best!

>>123898014
cringy af

Glad I don't know any of those people

>>123903090
Exactly. By the basis of the Marxist-apologist argument, no actions can ever be attributed to the expressed ideological motivations of the actor. There's always some way they can nitpick the details. This stems from a stunning display of narcissism (which religious fundamentalists also hold), in which they believe their interpretation of someone's writing is somehow the only true one. Ironically, this selfishness and narcissism is one of the main reasons communism could never work on a fundamental level.

These people are brainwashed scum. I had a friend in highschool that got really into the whole "communist" thing in university and was always posting dumb commie shit on facebook. So I just started posted pictures of dead Ukrainians and Chinese peasants under his posts. Of course according to him none of that was done by real communists, and he always kind of pretended he didn't know why I was posting that stuff. Eventually I blocked him.

>>123905819
>Reality

>Chinks shooting a drug dealer

>Bad thing.

Spotted a defenerate.

>>123895820
Is this really his nose or just a shoop?

I've never met a communist who defended their view in any way. Honestly, i don't think they even know what communism is.

>>123906215
It's been shooped. They had to shrink it to fit it in the picture it's much bigger really

>>123904857
Someone other than Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc etc. Someone other than they guy who always ends up being the guy. Any other brilliant ideas?

>>123895820
By laughing at any fucking retard that says it.

>>123900560
"Leftie anarchist" is an oxymoron. Leftie requires equality of outcome. Anarchist requires random outcomes. Most likely those who adopt that label will drop the "anarchist" and replace it with "authoritarian" overnight once they smell power.

>>123908521
its true though, communism never happened because it can't happen, its a god damn fairy tale

>>123896962
What

what you idiots refer to as "communism" is actually socialism, communism is an end result of socialism with a clear definition of
no.
state.

many integral parts of socialism were copied in today's democracies, think of it next time when you get cancer and the state pays for that from the citizens pooled money for medical care, or when you walk around in public paved sidestreets next to publicly funded roads and interact with people that can actually read and do basic math regardless of economic situation
and if you are mugged or your house is on fire or a gang threatens your family, guess who comes to your aid no matter how poor you are.

nimrods

>>123908446
*revisionism intensifies*

>>123904255
No, it's the fault of a system that does not adequately guard against or plan for someone doing the killing.

Modern European democracy was under siege from establishment monarchism during its birth in the same way that communism was under siege from democracy, but democracy still manged to produce enough stable governments to flourish.

I wipe my ass with the manifesto.

>>123895820
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OlB_xNOAn1c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

>>123908982
It's a colloquialism you insufferable pedant

>>123909527
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlB_xNOAn1c

>>123908982
this

>>123910533
is what autism is

>>123895820
>Why would you even want it to? On its own terms, it sounds like a dismal existence.

>>123908982
Wasting your time on these braindead /pol/scum.

>>123898522
>>Also this is a good one. Every time socialism has been tried, it went spectacularly wrong.
Meanwhile every time capitalism has been tried, it went spectacularly right.

Anyone with a brain will know which system has the better goals from this.

>>123896962
Holy shirt, THE DELUSION

>>123895820
Because it's a completely infeasible ideal that has disastrous consequences when implementation is attempted.