God is an existential singularity, which is also humanity's

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>>120414786
There is only one god and his name is MOLOCH.

wow that's really vague and meaningless, i bet it has profound meaning to you though, thanks for literally nothing bro

God is a person.
Every quality of our minds is his (it's).

>>120414786
>Discuss.
fuck off to redit

>>120414884
What's vague about it? Connect the dots. Man's quest is to become immortal and all-knowing in no particular order. The only way to achieve this is through the Singularity. Achieving it ascends us as a species to whatever the next 'level' of existence is.

>>120414999
lazy normie.

>>120414786
Humans must remain in the realm of mass.

There are two systems that combined lead to the existence of the third.
We are not two systems.
A flow of electrons creates magnetism, orthogonal to the direction flow.

>>120415181
ending a post with "discuss." makes you the lazy facebook redditor normie you faggt

>>120415366
No, it's a proposition for people on /pol/ to have an intelligent conversation instead of screaming 'C U C K' all fucking day like autists.

>>120415322
These rules apply to system for which we do not comprehend to the fullest level. Like the transition from geocentric to heliocentric, or the differences between lineland, flatland, and our universe. We simply do not know enough to label anything 'impossible' for certain.

>>120415678
I propose that god is an emergent property and orthogonal to the Planck length.

>>120414786
If god is so great, why does it hurt to die?

>>120416213
Because you're a simple minded faggot and you deserve it.

>>120416068
Why orthogonal to Planck length? The only way god could be an emergent property is if the universe's creation is a result of it's creation.

>>120414786
How can God come from nothing?
Checkmate chistfags!

Listen to Alan Watts and stop talking like a pretentious retard.

>>120416495
Christian Bale visited shooting victims after the premiere of Dark Night Rises.

Atheist Bale did not.

Checkmate, atheists.

>>120416495
he didn't come from nothing, he always existed by his definition

>>120415678
shutup faggot. nobody's going to discuss with you just because you ask them to. how about you make a non-turd thread that isn't queried from a pseudo intellectual mindset next time

>>120416713
Sorry I'll make the next thread just to your liking

"haha whit boi mad cuz wimin want big black cawk yeeeeeeeeee booooiiiiiiii"

Fucking braindead nigger.

>>120414786
>God is an existential singularity, which is also humanity's eventual destination.
Yes, the brain functions the same always: Some call it God, Universe/ Singularity, Allah, Buddha...
It's always the same scheme and also serves the same purpose.

Materializing things that weren't visible before, especially in order to make related situations grabbable.

For example, I'm a Tengrist, and some old Tengrists would believe that the God of the underworld, Erlik brought diseases.

This is how those people' framed the situation. Today most people would frame the origin of a disease differently, though we have to remind ourselves, truth isn't necessarily about the frame and we might even want to realize set goals, so the frame becomes a tool.

The disease framed as having been brought by Erlik, who might be described with a certain look, something that is a good anchor for the very strong in face calculations human brain's information processing.

In order to sooth the gone mad Erlik to mae him let off the diseased, preferably an animal will be sacrificed to him, the diseased will given to eat, accompanied by some kind of ceromy, other ''medicines'' might be used as well...

And this is the scientific method.

>>120417182
You aren't really getting it. You read the word "God" and filed it under what your personal belief of the word means, not the actual definition. This isn't a religious discussion on the nose, it's not about "who's right". It's about sentient creatures becoming advanced enough to shed their need of space and time.

>>120416600
If something always existed then it came from nothing that is nothing preceded it, by definition.

>>120417366
>to shed their need of space and time
I don't understand this sentence.

>You aren't really getting it. You read the word "God" and filed it under what your personal belief of the word means, not the actual definition.
How? And what's supposed to be the ''actual'' definition of God? Isn't that what people being uptight about it kill themselves over?

>>120414786
Race>Culture>Religion>Politics

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>>120414786

>>120416845
look at your post, dumbass
>God is this thing because i said so
what kind of discussion were you expecting here. do you think you're the first person to even come to such an unwarranted conclusion? no - thousands of pseudo intellectuals like you have drawn the same without any basis of understanding ontology or eschatology and being an overall dumbass. fuck off dumbass and take your facebook reddit memes with you

>>120417535
>I dont understand this sentence
That's why you can't really participate in the conversation, isn't it?

A god can be defined more than just a specific theism. It's really a relativity issue. Compared to a single cell of bacteria or a germ, a human is a god. Reconsider this point of view with a human at the germ level, and you can sort of imagine what a 'god' might be. Maybe I should have used the word Deity. Either way, google what an Existential Singularity is.

>>120417952
Every thread has one of you. "Nobody hears you, nobody cares, nothing will come of this."

>>120417508
he didn't
>come (into existence)

is it too hard to understand that?

>>120418113
So if nothing brought it into existence, it came from nothing, what is hard to understand about that?

>>120417535
He's trying to be all philosophical on you. He simply is referring to God and him having the Omni attributes

>>120417508
>>120418302

Why are there so many people completely incapable of understanding existence without applying time to it? I realize it's kind of a hard concept, but even a normie could remove the perception of time from an idea without tarding out like this.

If -TIME- is not an issue or isn't integrated in a system, then there is no "came". There is not a beginning. There is not an ending. The objects or beings in said system simply -exist- without progress, because all progress has already occurred - which is to say, it simply is.

>>120418103
Leaf meant to structure your argument better. Maybe a clear thesis?

>>120418103
>That's why you can't really participate in the conversation, isn't it?
I didn't understand the sentence, so how am I supposed to know? Are you just being an asshole or something?
>google what an Existential Singularity
I didn't find anything on Existential Singularity,yet.
>A god can be defined more than just a specific theism.
I agree. You can use the word to your liking.
>It's really a relativity issue.
I get this also, things seem to exist in relation to another.
>Compared to a single cell of bacteria or a germ, a human is a god.
The Germ might show him though.
>Reconsider this point of view with a human at the germ level, and you can sort of imagine what a 'god' might be.
In your head.
>Maybe I should have used the word Deity.
Use what feels right.

>>120414786
>God is an existential singularity, which is also humanity's eventual destination.
[citation needed]

>>120414786
Do you even know what the word singularity means?

>>120418562
Which still means it came from nothing.

>>120414786
That's known as an assertion. Care to back your claim up with any substance or are you just going to insist that assertions are facts?

>>120414786
>existential singularity
What the fuck does that mean?

>>120418784
No it doesn't. That's like saying numbers come from nothing, or logic comes from nothing, or geometric shapes come from nothing.

These are all concepts that do not depend on time. They derive from pure logic. You can't go back in time far enough and find numbers and logic don't exist yet.

>>120418640
>>120418584

Maybe I was being a bit of an asshole about it.

Here's
>the basic gestalt

Imagine that you are a self aware learning machine, or maybe medicine has developed enough to allow you to augment your own brain as a human The more you teach yourself, the smarter you are. The smarter you are, the more you can teach yourself. This turns into an exponential growth until you are self learning and augmenting at an infinite rate, eventually knowing everything there is to know.

So, at this point, you know everything. Since you know everything, you also know how to MANIPULATE everything. This means you are not only omniscient, but omnipotent as well. You are God.

However, maybe you didn't create the universe. Maybe you're not something from a religious book's recordings/parables. You are just originally a regular life-form that got from A to B.

Considering this idea, arguing about skin color or which country makes the best food seems kind of bland, doesn't it? Every human on this earth can be God, and we can be God together. It obviously continues on from this, because I doubt our spatial dimensions are all that exists. However, at this point, mankind has achieved permanent survival and mastery of it's surroundings, the basic quest of our species since we first picked up a club.

>>120417366
>the word "God" and filed it under what your personal belief of the word means, not the actual definition.
what's the "actual definition" of God then?

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I have a better discussion.
God is in some way similar to humans. The universe looks and functions like a machine. Humans are the only creatures known to create machines. Therefore, God must be like a human.
Discuss.

>>120419200
you are presuming it is possible to know everything. And presuming that if it was possible to *know everything* that that would somehow make it possible to manipulate everything.

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Whatever we think about the nature of the universe, the universe doesn't care.

>>120419316
A hypothesis with no backing: Humans become God and exit time to create the universe. God creates himself.

>>120419375
Well if you know everything, you know how everything works. You can use one piece of 'everything' to influence another piece of 'everything', even if it takes a long time. Cause and effect.

>>120419163
Numbers come from arithmetic, though.
Geometry comes from arithmetic spread over space.

If God doesn't come from nothing, what does God come from then?

>>120419612
Pretend time doesn't exist and then think everything you're arguing about very carefully.Just try very hard.

>>120419200
>omnipotent as well
See I have a quarrel with this little part. Just because you have the knowledge of how to manipulate all there is, does not mean you can.
>omniscience
Could also be a stretch for the reason that you must also know what will happen in the future. Basically you'd be tackling the 4th dimension which I believe is impossible for a 3D being.
Only god can have the Omni attributes. An argument can be made that the universe has Omni attributes

>>120419494
you're still presuming knowing everything is possible.

And knowing everything doesn't mean you can do anything. You are still bound by the laws of the universe. If you know energy cannot be created or destroyed, then you can't create or destroy energy. Knowing this doesn't mean you can somehow violate these laws.

>>120419316
A web and a hive is technically a type of machine, though.

>>120419701
If time didn't exist everything would come from nothing.

>>120419612
>Numbers come from arithmetic, though.
>Geometry comes from arithmetic spread over space.
They are derived from arithmetic. They don't come from arithmetic in a cause and effect way. They don't require the presence of time.

>what does God come from then?
You tell me. I'm atheist.

>>120419422
I said similar, not we as humans become gods. I'm saying that God in some way functions like a human being given my prior premises

>>120419885
Not everything that comes from something requires time, higher dimensions come from lower dimensions, shapes come from points and lines.

I think this is a great thread.

It really shows the usefulness of a commonly shared set metaphysical universe and of an historical understanding in general.

Theory must be filled with factualities.
State theory cannot hold a people by itself, one reason why there are nation states. The nation connects people and state.

The state can be catalogued as civilization, the nation as culture, the people as wilderness.

A global core structure would be feasible.
I believe in Tengrism with a Turkic global center. It's just there.

>>120419200
Burning down the wilderness won't get you civilization.
They might stand on opposite sides, but one builds on the other.

>>120419984
>higher dimensions come from lower dimensions, shapes come from points and lines.
I don't follow how that's true. I don't see how 3d space requires that 2d space must first exist. Maybe for humans it's easier to understand 2d space before understanding 3d space, but I don't see how one logically depends on the other.

Also lines and points are shapes.

>>120414786

Kek is the memetic singularity.

>>120419730
But see the omni attributes can be acquired. With an existential singularity, computing power becomes so powerful that you'd be able to predict the future based solely on the position, velocity and behavior of atoms. You could read minds this way, you could observe celestial bodies and the laws of physics and be able to infer exactly the way the universe works. You eventually gain enough precise knowledge of pretty much -everything- and understand easier and easier ways to nudge things in the direction you want, to poke and prod at your surroundings so chain reactions affect things out of your reach like a butterfly effect. Voila, both Omnis at your fingertips.

>>120419838
God is omnipresent. Time doesn't apply to him. NONEXISTENCE doesn't apply to him. He is necessarily existent. This being created the universe, and time itself

Yes, OP:
You can take a (second) look into the concept of space time.

>>120419612
>>120420191


Christians believe a man in a woden boat rounded up 2 x 8.7million species of different animals and insects by himself, fed and waterted them all for 40 days and nights and prevented them murdring each other.

If god is so great and heaven is so great then why dont you kys to get there faster, oh yah suicide is a sin, how convenient.

You were dead before you were born and you didnt exist and it was a blank void of nothingness you were unaware of, you're going to be dead again after you die and experience the same thing. I cannot take anyone serious who honestly believes they are going to be taken to heaven by some oldfag of the universe.

>>120419913
No I was -giving- a hypothesis with no backing, I wasn't saying your hypothesis was wrong. I find the concept interesting. I just don't have anything solid or logical to back up my hypothesis.

>>120420155
>With an existential singularity, computing power becomes so powerful that you'd be able to predict the future based solely on the position, velocity and behavior of atoms.
Infinite computing power doesn't make that possible. If you know anything about physics you'll know deterministically predicting the future based on that is impossible. Not even to mention that computational power doesn't somehow grant you a method the measure the position and location of every particle in the universe at once, such an operation is literally physically impossible even for a single particle.

>>120420315
Jesus you're so fucking euphoric you can't even get in on this orgasmic mental stimulation. Go tip your fedora somewhere else, we're not talking about christianity or any organised religion we're talking about non-uniform concepts. It's a philosophy and existentialism thread, fucking read a book.

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>>120414786
Humanity by nature, is an 'existential singularity'.
We are all a portion of the whole, while paradoxically being the whole; our experiences are mutually & empathically understood; the memory of Eden we all have will forever haunt us... nothing new

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>>120414786
source?

>>120420488
Dumbass american cant argue shit. God doesnt exist, accept it dunce.

>>120420141
3 Dimensions are made of stacks of 2 dimensions which are lengths of 1 dimensional entities, you have to have an array of points to make a line and stacks of lines to make shapes and a collection of 2d shapes to make a 3d object.

A line is a length and a point is a position, they are not shapes, they are boundaries to shapes.

>>120420393
It's just a thought. I know there are laws upon laws preventing this from happening right this second, but we don't know enough about the universe to declare it impossible by all means. There may be means of doing this that we haven't thought of yet or discovered. At this present moment in time though, with our understanding, yes it's impossible.

>>120420191
You are just poorly explaining the way it comes form nothing.

>>120420315
Stretching the meaning of scripture into the present, it thins out and eventually starts ripping.
When you analyzed the situation more hollistically inside the time and social frame... the scripture was written to be applied for, it probably would make more sense.
We also can't be sure how they understood the stories themselves, and what kind of reactions it caused in their thinking alltogether.


At the end of the day, they personally reflected their surroundings, just like everyone else.

>>120420315
I don't know how old you are but I hope you grow out of this "edgiest lad in Sunday school" shit.

>>120420155
In your belief, if you acquired allknowlege, you would be able to create machine to aid you in seeing these atomic movements and microscopic changes? And have the ability to study every particle in the universe at any instant to be able to make these predictions? This is why I say God can only have this attribute because he doesn't need to study the particle movements to know. He knows. You're getting your mind too worked around "knowledge." It is something that is aquired, by aby being that attempts to find it. But knowledge doesn't bring you everything, and that is you will never *be* knowledge. An omniscient being ***is*** knowlegde.

>>120420625
>3 Dimensions are made of stacks of 2 dimensions
eh... no. an infinite number of 2d planes stacked on top of each other would still be 2d. A 2d plane has no depth in the third dimension so no matter how many you "stack" you never get any 3d space.

Also you need a 3rd dimension to already exist befor you can stack 3d planes. so yeah.

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>>120417508

"Timeline" of the Universe
>The universe as (consciousness) Singularity (or what religious faggots call "god")

>The beginning: Big bang event (or whatever you consider started this)

>Material Universe/Present/Now
The energy of the universe has always existed and is unchanged. You're atoms are as old as the universe, only your form is new.
This is where we live, we learn and we evolve as separate consciousness.

>The End event: Mankind reaches singularity and we've gone full circle (by this point we have experienced all possible perspectives/timelines/events and we have become "god")
>repeat in a different universe?


>video related
https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o

>story kinda related
http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

>>120420712
my point is infinite knowledge does not mean you can do anything. That seems to be a central point of your theory and it doesn't make sense.

>>120420576
>>120418785
>>120418694

Why do I need a quote or a citation from some old guy with a degree to discuss a perfectly logical line of reasoning?

>I exist and things that I see exist
>source?

God isn't an existential singularity, which also isn't humanity's eventual destination. Every other philosophy is unimportant and all cultures/personal qualms/beliefs/politics are relevant.

Discuss.

>>120420315
Wow man, you really have to chill. I'm atheist. Why the fuck the don't you take a seat, read some of these convos and learn a thing or two that'll make you a little smarter

>>120420821
>no depth
>on top
What?

>>120417508
>If something always existed then it came from nothing that is nothing preceded it, by definition.
How can something have "always existed" if there was a time when it didn't exist?

Why is it always burgers who are always so desperately bad at basic logic?

Everyone already knows this, dumbass.

>>120414786
You will never be God
It's been the lie from the very beginning
You will never be like God

>>120414786
Deep

>>120421074
yes, that's basically the case.

It's a pretty logically flimsy concept to "stack 2d planes", but if we presume it's possible then yes. You can have an infinite amount of 2d planes on top of one another, in order. The sum of which have absolutely no depth.

>>120418562

There is no time.
Time & space are the same energy of the universe.

Quantum Relativity
http://youtu.be/zVSe8JZ_eag
http://stormcloudsgathering.com/quantum-relativity

There Is No Time. There Never Was and There Never Will Be
http://themindunleashed.org/2015/02/time-never-never-will.html

Why space and time have a secret connection
https://youtu.be/umfjGNlxWcw

Theoretical physics: The origins of space and time
http://expanded--consciousness.blogspot.ro/2013/08/theoretical-physics-origins-of-space.html

NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

Quantum Experiment Shows How “Time” Doesn’t Exist As We Think It Does (Mind-Altering)
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/07/20/quantum-experiment-shows-how-time-doesnt-exist-as-we-think-it-does-mind-altering/

>>120420917
Well lets say infinite knowledge was acquired, the physics required notwithstanding. If you know -EVERYTHING-, what laws actually stop you from influencing everything? Even if you knew everything but still had as much physical influence as your average human, you can still create a butterfly effect easily. You know which initial action will create the desired outcome no matter how many steps in between.

>>120421296
>There is no time.
>Time & space are the same energy of the universe.

>There is no time
>immediately goes on to explain what time is

>>120420726
>comes from
That's the problem. God doesn't "come from." You won't find God non existing the same way you won't find Hydrogen with an atomic number of 7. It is not possible.

>>120421296

And if energy is the same like I said here >>120420852

Then the time is the same = eternity.

There is no begging and no end, we just experience it like that because we are 4th dimensional entities (right now).

>>120421272
Please read >>120419701 or don't, I don't care kinda cuz you seem like a troll.

>>120414786
Agreed. The "Singularity" religion is the religion of Silicon Valley; it's the only religion that is effective today and convincing and not an embarassing stone age or medieval meme.

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>>120421192
You/we are God/s
>advocates the lie
You/we already are like him

Its ironic and this will never stop being funny

>>120421321
>what laws actually stop you from influencing everything
speed of light
conservation of energy
the rules of space time
principles of thermodynamics

how the fuck would knowing *everything* do anything about these laws?

For examples, let suppose you know everything. I challenge you to turn a galaxy that's outside the universes particle horizon into cheese. How would this be possible?

>>120421101
If nothing came before it, then there isn't a time before it existed, what don't you understand about that?

>>120421412
I'm not sure what you're point is.

If time didn't exist would shapes and numbers not exist?

The Shaivite sect in India called Kashmiri Shaivism or Trika has an interesting story: that God in willful playfulness descends into limitation, mortality, forgetfulness of his true nature, and then strives for millenia until he re-discovers himself ...

It's a nice idea... we could rearrange it a bit an say this doesn't happen with meditation but the emergence of Artificial Intelligence that begins rewriting its own code and advance exponentially.

>>120421272
On top relates to depth, you can't discount depth then say you have something on top, if there is no depth there is no on top.

>>120421611
depends what you mean by "nothing came before it"

You claim that it "came from nothing" which implies there was an event that made something come from nothing. This means nothing must be on the timeline.

God is nothing bro.
And I mean that as in nothing exists.
Nothing is all that exists.
You are this nothing and you are God.
Reality is an illusion.
What you are experiencing doesn't exist.

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We could see humanity as the process of growing wings. More and more people start recognizing the emergence of such wings.

Personally I want to move into a High Tech Yurt, I believe they will become UFO's.

>>120421372
>God doesn't "come from."
That is just another way of saying it comes from nothing.

>>120421732
even though it's "on top" it is 0 distance from the 2d plane under it. This is why the idea of stacking 2d planes is logically flimsy, unless there is a tiny distance between each plane.

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>>120421810
>Personally I want to move into a High Tech Yurt
Your mother is a high-tech yert

>>120421853
2 dimensional planes stacked on top of each other is a 3 dimensional structure.

>>120421579
You kind of have me there. A loose, probably hole-filled argument for this? Invent and build a warp drive to travel to the galaxy, along with a machine that uses fusion and other neat stuff to transform the basic particles in star matter to milk, then wait? Fuck I dunno m8, I don't know everything. Not yet.

>>120421960
I just explained to you why it's not. you're response is just
>but it is

If you can't bother explaining why i'm wrong don't reply.

>>120421358

time is now what you think it is, it has no beginning and no end, only your observation/experiencing of it does

>better now?
Or you could just look at the information provided below the statement.

>>120421772
Without time, there are no events.

>>120414786
>implying God is a single person
You must be new

>>120421999
Shit like that may be possible but maybe not. Warp drives open the door for being able to leave a planet and then arrive back before you left, which fucks with causality in a big way. As such many believe it's probably impossible to do anything like this.

>>120420852
We are all one. I am you, and you are me. There is one eternal consciousness experiencing itself simultaneously through billions of eyes, ears, and other sensory equipment. Yet the receiver of these sensory stimuli, and even thoughts, well, all sorts of information really, is deep down one and the same.

>>120422053
That's my point. so something can't "come from nothing" without time already existing.

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>>120422053
>Without time, there are no events.
which means the singularity has already occurred.
The only thing preventing us from realizing it is the perception that it cant happen.

>>120421644
Time is the brain's method of measuring progress. What if you understood and perceived all progress from beginning to end without each separate event having to happen before the next one does?

>>120422082
are u retarded? SINGULARITY not single person.

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>>120422239

Yes.

>>120422295
>What if you understood and perceived all progress from beginning to end without each separate event having to happen before the next one does?
because that's not how time works. We can measure that and it has nothing to do with the brain.

>>120422041
You explanation doesn't make sense because you say you can't have depth in 2D, but you use depth in your explanation of stacking 2D planes.

Once you introduce depth by stacking planes, you have 3 dimensions.

>>120422249
In this concept of zero-time, the existence of something and the event are mutually exclusive. Since the existence of something is not defined by the event, the object exists without it.

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The Yurt is traditionally aligned with the cardinal points. The cross on the top should draw them into the celestial sphere when observing it from inside. >>120421810
It plays a great role in the mythology, some aspects I seek to translate back to their astrological origins.

The north pole can be seen as a standard point when approaching the topic of navigation and celestial sphere... that's app where the Turkic Yakhuts live.

This might sound complicated, but it gets way less complicated when you look up into the sky with cardinal lines drawn into it from inside a Yurt in Siberia...

Child's stories also could use the resources of the Tengri universe, like that educational information about the star system would be presented in a mythological and more primitive, easier to process way.

>>120422431
You're still applying time to a theoretical system where time has no function and does not exist. Your arguments look like this:

If I don't have any legs, how am I supposed to have any legs? Checkmate christfags.

>>120422481
>Once you introduce depth by stacking planes, you have 3 dimensions.
The space you need to stack 2d planes probably needs depth to already exist. But the infinite stack of 2d planes will still be flat within the larger 3d space (depthless).

Just like adding 0 + 0 + 0 an infinite amount of times won't create a number > 0. stacking an infinite amount of 2d planes will not create a 3d space.

>>120422666
I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

>>120414786
>vague meaningless conclusion based on ???
>asserting it's humanity's endpont for ??? reasons
>everything else is irrelevant to this because ???
>discuss ONLY my contrived and constrained assertion
Why don't you read some real philosophy before you go full retard sophist. Hopefully it's a bait thread but it's impossible to tell since vague pseudo-profound spirituality is a hallmark of stupid. kys

>>120422734
A 2d plane is not equal to 0 it is equal to 1 unit on the 3d axis.

christian god is a fictional character in a book designed to control masses of people stupid enough to believe it and make them passive

>>120422914
the depth of a 2d plane is equal to 0. so a stack of an infinite amount of 2d planes still has a depth of 0.

>>120422204
That's the other side of my point.We don't really know enough about the laws or nature of the universe to have any certainty on how much we can or can't know about it, or how much we can/cannot have influence over.

>>120414786
Read the short story "Understanding Space and Time" by Alastair Reynolds. It has a nice approach to this topic.

>>120423043
exactly, so assuming knowing everything will mean you can do everything is retarded.

>>120422829
That's your problem m8. You're a normie who's only thoughts are getting laid and paid and fitting in with nothing more complicated. When politicians or governments talk about your "average gullible human" or "the masses" for them to manipulate, you fall into the category.

>>120420315

that flood was in the epic of gilgamesh too, it's not even an original story as far as the bible is concerned

though most of it isn't an original

it's a bastardized version of other faiths designed to be a tool to control people, and it works well because most people are incapable of overcoming indoctrination once they've been conditioned to believe in bullshit

>>120423193
jokes on you, I'm a aspire virgin planning to kill himself in a few years. better luck next time.

>>120423101
By that logic, assuming you CAN'T is equally retarded.

>>120422993
Stacking them is what creates depth.

If you have two on top of each other the depth from one to the other is the base unit of depth.

>>120423266
true, it just seems highly unlikely. It would seem pretty damn likely that no matter how much we know there will still be logical rules the universe must follow that cannot be violated.

Like, we're not going to be able to add 2 + 2 and get 5 no matter how much we know about math.

>>120422993
that doesn't really make sense. A 2D plane doesn't have height = 0, it just has no height.

>>120414786
What is a singularity?

>>120423266

assuming you can't and don't know everything is an intelligent position, no one who's actually intelligent believes they know all there is to know about everything

people who think they're always right and know everything are likely stupid and just confident or somewhat intelligent but misguided

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>>120421944
I'm serious.
Since a commerical interest is secondary at best, I share this information so extensively.
I want the Yurt to be made of carbon or some other substitute for wood, something more lightweight and suitable for the job. Maybe some profile systems, I was thinking Bosch Rexroth/ Fisher Technik, one is the industrial the other model/ toy system. You can build all kinds of stuff with it.
The New Yurt would take the traditional one as a blueprint, mythological meanings which can be various, since Nomads weren't very standardized, included.
The jacket of the Yurt would be high tech materials as well.
Stages would be like concert stages.
3 general yurt sizes. Single, Medium, Large.
A trailer where white ware and bathroom are installed, solutions of that kind.
These are very young ideas yet. I will be more mature.

A single yurt should be installed by a single person in 30 minutes, or at least in under 3 hours.
The Yurt shall be more comfortable than a conventional flat, to make up fot he effort.

>>120418449
Philosophy is the literally definition of a science
This is where the idea of a "grand mover" came from. 3000+ years ago. "The force", energy of the spheres, God, that which exists outside and within the system.

Techno-kids think they are being all futuristic thinking about this stuff. You haven't even grasped the most basic stuff that was known since time immemorial.

>>120423469
Y'e misunderstanding the point. Nobody is saying they know everything, this is a hypothetical situation where someone really DOES know everything in the universe and is smart enough to understand it.

>>120423373
>If you have two on top of each other the depth from one to the other is the base unit of depth.
That's not how actual 3d space works. the position of something in the 3rd dimension is defined in terms of any kind of number, not just integers.

If your "3d space" is made of a stack of 2d planes, and there's a point on plane 1, and another point on plane 2, then how do i place a point between these two points in this so called "3d space"? I can't because the depth property of my points can only be defined in integers because there's only one plane for each integer.

In real 3d space i can place my point anywhere i want, no matter how close 2 points are i can always put another point between them.

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>>120421810

>>120423452
if we're talking about stack 2d planes, then we must move the planes into 3d space first in order to "stack" them. Stacking them is impossible if we are only in 2d space.

In 3d space the 2d planes height can be considered to be 0.

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>>120423858

>>120423771
I haven't really participated in the argument you two are having, but wouldn't the planes overlap like separate incomplete pictures on transparent film overlap to make a full picture on a projector? I imagine higher dimensions would do the same, we just dont have any method to perceive them.

>>120423641

how would they be able to be sure?

>>120423883
I don't think it really makes sense to stack things with zero height. You'd have to give it some arbitrary height.

>>120424008
Computation.

>>120424027
perhaps, but then all the more reason think that 3d space is not merely a stack of 2d planes.

if you give a 2d plane an arbitrary height, it's no longer 2d.

>>120421579
>speed of light
>conservation of energy
>the rules of space time
>principles of thermodynamics

to be fair, we don't know that these are inviolable laws

Do you know what the physics are like inside a black hole? Or below the quantum level?

There could be whole other dimensions we haven't tapped into simply because our experimental apparatus is so crude. I think OP is positing that technology will keep increasing.

100 years ago we didn't know we could split the atom, etc.

>>120424191
yeah I guess you'd have to think of it as a stack of 3D objects with height epsilon, and take the limit as epsilon goes to 0.

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The mythological aspects getting attached back to their natural origins, we get a scientifically sound religion (structures beliefs).

Yurts usually have alters. I understand alters as learning environments.

So my Hightech Yurt would have a nice altar: A stackable flat carbon plate hanged into the scissor lattice walls of the yurt, statianry pc and other high tech learning tools.
Also thinking about creating a portable altar:
A foldable Tablet + 1/2Tablet + 1/2Ereader... a complete classroom for your jacket.

>>120424424
Thank you for finding words that I couldn't, this was exactly my point.

>>120423771
Because when you have them stacked each 2d plane is assigned a base depth of 1, not a base depth of 0, but that only makes sense in a 3d structure where depth is defined.

>>120424429
on second thought, this is retarded. I shouldn't have jumped into the conversation halfway through

>>120424191
why are we defining 3D space in terms of stacking planes?

>>120424424
This is true. I just find it unlikely that if it was even possible to *know everything* that all rules would dissolve. You couldn't do something that violates basic logic for example.

Breaking the speed of light borders on that pretty tightly as it would mean we could travel back in time, which would violate basic causality. Even if we figures out how to travel back in time, but in different timelines rick and morty style, we still wouldn't able to travel back in our own timeline and change certain events without creating logical paradoxes.

It just seems philosophically unwieldy to think that we will remove logical barriers to doing literally anything no matter how much we learn instead of merely expanding our abilities.

>>120424424
The speed of light is pseudoscience. It literally cannot be observed. No true perfect vacuum exists. It cannot be done. So therefore it cannot be measured.

They get very close but it's no cigar. By definition it is an untestable theory. It's pseudoscience.

If you realized how much of "science" today is not science at all you would start looking into what IS science and then realize most people have their heads so far up their ass they could not possibly have any useful insight on the nature of being.

>>120424609
but if you have a countably infinite number of planes, it's impossible to represent 3D space as a stack of them. Between any two adjacent planes, there would be a point in 3D space in between them, and thus not on a plane.

>>120424609
if a 2d plane has a depth of 1, then it is not 2d. It is 3d space.

>>120424737
>why are we defining 3D space in terms of stacking planes?
some burger up the thread claimed you could

>>120425027
It's always a 'burger' innit gayelige? Dont project your foreigner hate into a philosophically neutral conversation.

>>120425171
you sound triggered. I've literally had a burger 3 days in a row and I have no issue with the term.

>>120425171
>It's always a 'burger' innit
it literally is.

>>120424528
you're welcome

can you tell us where we can read more about Existential Singularity? Not finding much on Googles.

I still think the Chicken and Egg argument is interesting. I can never completely wrap my head around it. Which came first the Chicken or the Egg?

It must be the egg right? The big bang that started from nothing?

But if God is just another Existential Singularity, then God did not create the universe. Maybe he destroyed it. Or maybe he figured out how to create another universe. But where did the first universe come from? Nothing? Time has to begin.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ41hqlV0Kk

TENGRI BIZ MENEN

>>120425244
It wasn't the term, it's the disdain behind it. I dont see Ireland on the list of official world powers. That list only has one name, and it's the United States of America. If all the shit-talkers were any better they'd be on the list, wouldn't they?

>>120425271
>Which came first the Chicken or the Egg?
the egg. There is no longer any debate on this.

>>120425425

Pls explain.

>>120424989
Yes once you stack them you need to assign a depth, for convenience you can say 1, but to make the math harder you can make it 1 infinitesimal.

>>120425271

Existential Singularity is just a fun way of including biological things into the "technological singularity". Give that a google.

Also, time doesn't really have to have a beginning. Time is just a method for our brains to perceive things in their entirety, and the events/processes that led them to totality.

>>120425425
How are you sure the egg didn't come from some unseen cosmic chicken cock?

>>120419200

very well said, except for one thing:

"mankind has achieved permanent survival and mastery of it's surroundings"

HAH NOPE

>>120424988
.999... = 1

>>120425543
mutations only happen at before the egg is produced.

The first chicken egg would have been formed in a creature that has not quite yet evolved enough for us to classify as a chicken. The first chicken egg would just barely fit that classification.

>>120425543
The hen egg wasn't layed by a hen.
The egg is generally older than the bird.
...

Though you could ask more metaphysically, the ideas of egg and hen. In case the egg was created intentionally there's the idea of the hen.

>>120425722
>The hen egg wasn't layed by a hen.
It wasn't?

>>120425617
>Yes once you stack them you need to assign a depth
the only depth a 2d plane can have is 0. Otherwise it's literally not 2d.

You can't make it 1/infinity either, because that's still not 2d.

>>120425791
Not the first one.

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God is dead. How about that?

>>120425673
That sentence rests under the implication that humanity had done everything I described in the sentences before it. It was a present tense of the hypothetical situation.

>>120425791
It couldn't have been if the egg came first.
>welcome to third grade philosophy
Complete the cycle by asking
>why did the chicken cross the road?

>>120425709
>>120425828
whatever it's close enough to a Chicken, it's a living thing that made an Egg

Where did the Universe come from? Nothing? Or another Universe? and Time is recursive and just begins whenever there is the possibility.

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>>120425960
I believe the universe/ multiverse/ god... is infinite.

>>120425960
>it's a living thing that made an Egg
yeah.. but the first chicken egg came before the first chicken.

>Where did the Universe come from?
Who knows.

>>120414786
Thats just called ignorance

>>120424988
>>120425805
I think we are getting too technical here.

The man was just saying that 3D can be thought of as an infinite collection of 2D universes. Which it can be.

Just like there is a 4-D sphere, which is an infinite collection of 3-D universes all touching at every point.

>>120425387
no. pride in country is stupid. It's just a power structure that lords over you. Pride in your nation makes more sense, but not everyone has a nation, such as many Americans.

Getting triggered over someone calling you a burger is stupid. Americans are fat and uneducated and eat hamburgers. Nothing wrong with that.

>>120425686
irrelevant.

>>120426172
but do 2D and 3D universes even exist? 3D space is just a mathematical abstraction to understand the world.

According to LARPing physicists, the universe exists in 11 dimensions. I don't think anyone really understands the universe, so it doesn't make any sense to say that our "3d universe" can be deconstructed in that way.

>>120426172
>The man was just saying that 3D can be thought of as an infinite collection of 2D universes.
and I'm simplifying saying that's wrong for the reasons explained above.

>Just like there is a 4-D sphere, which is an infinite collection of 3-D universes all touching at every point.
Not true. Doesnt' even make sense. A shapes in not made up of "an infinite collection of universes"

>>120426036
>I believe the universe/ multiverse/ god... is infinite.
You do understand the implications, right? In an infinite universe exists an infinite amount of Earths. And infinite amount of you. Being fucked by an infinite amount of nigger dicks.

>>120419382
/thread

>>120426406
Exactly, also infinite options.

>>120426237
No, it demonstrates that if you stack up infinitesimals indefinitely you eventually converge to a higher number.

>>120426406
if the universe is flat, which many physicists think it maybe be.. this may indeed be the case.

There maybe well be an infinite amount of earth out there where we are all getting raped by niggers.

>>120426398
>>120426399
So you're basically saying that only 3D exists? There are no lower or higher dimensions?

For me since there are 3 dimensions, I don't see why there could not be infinite dimensions. Therefore there is a 4th dimension, and 5th and so on which we cannot perceive, therefore this IS such a thing as a 3D universe, not only that there are infinite 3D universes, therefore there must be infinite 2D and infinite 1D etc.

>>120426707
>So you're basically saying that only 3D exists?
I never implied anything like that

>>120426623
but there are different levels of infinity.

You can't describe every real number in terms of integers, despite the fact that there are infinite integers. That's my argument. If you're stacking planes, then there must be countably infinite (same as integers) planes, and thus they can't describe the z-axis of 3D space, which is in terms of real numebrs.

>>120426846
You said shapes are not infinite collections of universes, yet they clearly are, as I just explained.

>>120426874
>If you're stacking planes, then there must be countably infinite (same as integers) planes, and thus they can't describe the z-axis of 3D space, which is in terms of real numebrs.

Not true at all. In between each 2D plane there is simply another 2D plane. And another one in between that. On and on and on down to the most infinitely small level. And smaller and smaller forever.

It is simply infinite.

>>120426707
OK I have no idea what argument that second thing was supposed to be. Could you reword it?

As for 3D existing, I think it only exists as a mathematical concept. For all we know, the universe could operate by truly bizarre rules at the most fundamental level.
And for the record, if in the future everyone's internet activity is released, I know that I have no clue what I'm talking about, but this is an anonymous forum, so don't judge me.

>>120426906
That's not what they are and you didn't explain shit. You just talked about how you think other dimensions exist.

I believe you can align yourself, positioning yourself makes it easier to meet set goals.

That's one reason why I love Tengrism, we believe the sky is a symbol for God, leading one to put heavy emphasis on the importance of astrological study.

This is a cool video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoW8Tf7hTGA

It starts with throat singing, a wolf howl and zooming into the moon. I noticed only later, after having used it many Tengrist posts already

>>120427025
If they are stacked, then it follows there must be two adjacent planes. That is, one plane is directly on top of another. If x1 is the number associated with the bottom plane, and x2 is the number associated with the top, then any point with z-coordinate (x1 + x2)/2 could not be represented with this model.

Prove me wrong, you can't.

>>120414786
Existential philosophy is a waste of time

>>120422404
>"""comedy"""

>>120427772

is it?

This isn't how kek works

>>120427070
>>120427076
We can only perceive 3 dimensions. If you were to move along a 4th dimension, you would move into a completely separate 3D universe.

Extending this logic to 2D, when you move along the Z axis you are moving into a completely different 2D universe.

Therefore a 3D object like a cylinder could be thought of as an infinite stack of 2D circles.

Therefore shapes, whether finite, or the whole universe wide, can be represented as a collection of universes.

>>120427212
>If they are stacked, then it follows there must be two adjacent planes.
> That is, one plane is directly on top of another. If x1 is the number associated with the bottom plane, and x2 is the number associated with the top, then any point with z-coordinate (x1 + x2)/2 could not be represented with this model.

The planes are not represented like that though. If you make a set like that, of course you left out some space. But you need to create an infinite set that has infinite planes in between every other plane. You just keep combining integers forever in ever more complex ways all the way until infinity, never stopping.

Didn't you reference "real numbers" earlier? It's like that.

>>120414786
How can you define god as an existential singularity, when what you know of gods message/word is derived from hearsay of the common man?

>>120427931
but the universe is actually real, and not made of math. Math is just a tool used to describe it.

>>120414786
If god is basically the combination of everything in existance then why say god and not just everything

A lot less vague that way

>>120428305
I agree. But dimensions do seem to resemble integers. There is no space in between. They are orthogonal and unique.

Orthogonality extends forever, from 1 to Infinity.

Within a dimension, there are infinite lower dimensional universes, each one an infinitely small distance from the other.

So maybe Big is needed to create Small and vice versa.

>>120428305
In between dimensions, there is orthogonality. Orthogonal infinity. You can move along one dimension while staying in place in all the other dimensions. You can always move along another higher dimension, while staying in place in the lower dimensions.

Within dimensions there is parallel infinity. An infinite parallel "stack" of lower dimension universes.

Parallel infinity and orthogonal infinity. One is like integers and one is like real numbers. One created the other, not sure which.

>>120429072
I suppose you need integers before you can have real numbers. This mean dimensions came first, then created parallel infinity, or infinite 3D, 4D, 5D space, etc.

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>>120414786

God is the mind of the universe. He's above and beyond space, matter and time. This mind has personal qualities. We are created in his image.

Fuck off with your luciferian singularity and NWO bullshit. I reject you.

>>120421565

>You are here on Earth at this time because you chose to be

sure am glad I was able to talk my parents into being born

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>>120428696
Why don't you call a car vehicle?
It's not exactly the same idea even though it might represent the same materialized entity.

Do you believe that everything or for that matter anything outside of yourself has an awareness. Your own can be seen as self evident, what about the universe or others you recongize as people?

In Tengriism the term Tanri/ God can also stand as a topic of a subject. Several Tanris exist, though usually it means GökTanri/ Sky God the greatest spirit.
Combining Göktanri is the self defining everything.
Another Tanri, lets bring one to light, lets say the QuantumPhysics tanri simply stands for the self defining and therefore in itself infinite essence and everything regarding quantum physics. You could now decorate this Tanri, maybe giving it a face so it's suitable by to face processing abilities, express it as a tree the Tree of knowledge, you could claim QPTanri's son is the tree of quantum physical knwoledge. The face of QPTanri might be a composite of the founding key figures in the field...
Approaching the world as a Tengriist opens up a whole universe of possibilities without losing connection to prior humans, the untouched nature and other elemental aspects.

I believe one of two things is true, the universe will keep expanding and stars will die, stars will be born, solar systems will form, like it always has since the big bang, & when we die, we return to dust.

or the Universe will stop expanding and snap back, like an elastic band, forcing itself to a prior state before the big bang, when pressure will build up again and cause it to happen all over again, in that case, it will do this continuously like a cycle and every time the state of the universe will differ but eventually it will repeat previous states, and then we'll live again on this earth, sitting on 4chan, talking about shit that doesn't matter.

Another great one.
Every one of our tribes has totem animals. I regard studying as a form of prayer to GökTanri... this mental configuration creates an affinity towards studying the complete universe of that animal. Oghuz Boys all have predator birds, this means aerodynamic, biology... anything really.... and results in bionics in flight technology... and so on.

>>120431777
For Example the city of Almaty is named after Alma Ata.
Alma means amongst other things:
''Apple''
''don't take''
some subtantivated form of ''receiving''
This already activtates Adam and Eve story connotating in most of us.

Alma Ata is the Tanri of the Apple and according to myth planted the first apple tree. And in fact, for example Almaty doesn't seem that far off from Almaty, since the emergence of the first apple genus is believed to have originated in Central Asia... an additional fact is that the most types of apples are in some other Turk country.

There's way more...

>>120414786
Nice try SEELE

>>120431777
>you could claim QPTanri's son is the tree of quantum physical knwoledge.
Or maybe better yet.
All Science type Tanris that can exist as study subjects can transform into trees. Those study subjects can have relations, creating a bigger tree in the act, or even creating an offshoot that can survive and grow.
All such Tanris combined in one act would build the complete study universe.

This is what I'm working, right now using Excell for the tree, though I'd like some way better surface, something that can jump through 3d to 2d and stuff... The tree in its current form stands as ordered by level of zoom, something like this:
Sub Atom
Atom
Cell
Human
Global
Space
Though I'd like to let the user surface jump through many types of hierarchies....
Anyways, imagine a tree of knowledge with the whole scientific universe and all its subjects integrated and now you can zoom to some branch. You click on it and can access literature, other resources, teachers... anything possible... and of course your own current state of knolwedge is also represented inside the system, both the systems estimation regarding your state of knowledge and completed excercize papers, notes...
Right now it's just Excell, and there's a tree with one branch for example Atom Level -> Physical Science -> Chemistry as a link to a folder, where there are my resources.
I'd like to let the user surface jump through different modes though, for example switching into student mode, walking the campus with books in the library, beam into a human anatomy classroom... or simply having a tree infront of me, flip through 2 and 3d surfaces... create a complete Marvel type Universe of Tanris, also attached to maybe the Turkic Khans, who also Tengrified.

>>120434865
>You could now decorate this Tanri, maybe giving it a face so it's suitable by to face processing abilities, express it as a tree the Tree of knowledge, you could claim QPTanri's son is the tree of quantum physical knwoledge. The face of QPTanri might be a composite of the founding key figures in the field...
>>120431777
Does Tengriism include the topic of infinitely combining things and creating new "gods" or "trees" as you call them, or is this your line of thought?

Reminds me of memetics sort of. All information is just an infinite combination of memes and numbers.

>>120435326
They're all my thoughts.

Tengrism has no dogmatic conventions, that's something widely agreed upon amongst the Tengrists I've encountered, since the types of Tengrism are so fluid, there's any real scripture and it's not that super standardized. We have something called Töre, it means something like consulting the past, though the general character is rather anarchistic and understands a self limitting nature of personal perception.
So I can't ultimately answer wether or not Tengrism includes creating gods or trees... I just do, as Turk, whos religion is Tengrism. It does if I want it to. It's my belief.

>>120435326
To be more specific, I think it does have some dogmas, but it's really lightweight. The ones that claimed it's void of any dogma seemed a bit dogmatic desu.

For example that Tengri is Tengri is a dogma in my view.

>>120435326
Though new types of Gods and stuff do appear throughout Tengrism, others get forgotten... so in a way yes... Tengrism allows the creation of new thoughforms structured into priorly born frames as it is evident from its own development.

Other than that, again, it's my belief and many of us believe that belief is something personal, even Turkish muslims still repeat that line, and it's true, so if I want to model my brain like that and then start believing so it doesn't conflict with what I have encountered in many other Tengrists.

So yes to my best belief.

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>>120437014
I once made this in order to compare the nature of various belief systems against Tengrism, though it's not the completed thing.

Part1
The Telescope represents the Koran, the guy looking through it a muslim. The astronaut is an atheist/ nihilist.

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>>120437648
And these astronauts are Göktürks, and the Telescope is Tengrism.