/citizen/

>>110867073
Do you even need to ask? Pol is one person on this issue

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>Draconian criminal justice system

No, you need a strong culture and identity. If you apply your tool on the West we would need to jail nearly the whole society. We need religion or another social system based on common values, identities and traditions. Use the fundamentals of NatSoc and form your ideal society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn

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I though it was this book? Hmm

>>110867851
Jailing is not a preferred function of justice, as it is inefficient. A beating and public humiliation is sufficient for most minor viloations, and an execution is normally appropriate for severe crimes

>>110867073
Yeah it's nice and all until you have to fight giant space insects.

>>110867073
>freedom
>statism
pick one

I'm not even all that opposed to authoritarian right-wing regimes. Just don't pretend like you're defending freedom.

>>110867073
It's a miracle. A holy epiphany. Yes; Robert Heinlein was a visionary.

>>110868576
A government that does not intrude in the lives of its citizenry is the most free a society one can realistically have. The government is entirely voluntary, especially since laws only cover things the NAP covers anyways (and can actually enforce it)

>>110867851
>>110868576
Social cohesion and personal freedom both take roots and thrive from civic responsibility, which is one of the central tenets of the hypothesis.

>>110867073
Only on /pol/ would anyone think a joke book about a comically horrific dictatorship parody would be their ideal society.

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>>110867073
The Republic gunships have to have been based on those

>>110869173
Personal freedom implies the freedom to choose not to take up civic responsibility.
Obviously society should discourage individuals from choosing this, by imposing social and economic exclusion as the consequences to these choices. But still the government should not dictate the kind of lives people want to live.

>tfw love freedom while living in socialist shithole
>tfw born on the wrong continent

>>110869409
Only the movie was satire, the federation was never cast in even a bittersweet light. But then again you probably never even read it, given you think its a dictatorship

>>110869409
Only the movie is a parody, the book is sincere

>>110869700
In the setting, people have the freedom to choose not to pursue citizenship and make a life for themselves. The main character makes a point of this by being the first in his family to pursue citizenship, despite his family being successful businesspeople.

>>110870078
What does the government do? I know it's a totalitarian government. But what do they actually do? Are taxes high? Lots of regulation? Are certain behaviors illegal (weed, being critical of government, books banned or something)?

>>110867073
>only soldiers can vote

Nah, it's a fucking retarded system of government that would never work.

>>110870738
Using the setting as the example, and what was said in the op, its primary concerns are infrastructure, defense, diplomacy, and law. Taxes are generally very low, given the labor is from a volunteer workforce of aspiring citizens. Regulation is pretty much zero, the only note is that schools are required to have a history and moral philosophy course taught by a citizen to explain the nature of the government and civic responsibility. Books are not banned, the government generally stays out of the individual.

>>110871064
Term of service is not exclusively military, nor can those still in the military vote.

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>>110871284
Nice. In that case I guess there is a large degree of freedom even in this totalitarian state.

>>110867073
He had wonderful ideas for how the military structure should be, but despite what you listed there he didn't go much more in depth than you did for the civilian government. Worth reading the book, for sure though.

>>110871728
Before considering this ideology, I was an ancap, and I empathize with your concerns. The problem I ended up having was the lack of social cohesion and mobilization in an anarchist society, and a lack of ability to enforce guiding principles.

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>>110869409
Please read books before commenting about them.

>>110867073
this is the most accurate depiction of war ever lol. Literally don't even understand why they are fighting, with someone who through shit at them.

>>110867073
the sequels were bible thumping drivel.

>>110872085
True, though one can infer that the electorate was the primary change, and the book does detail a little in that the sky marshal is determined by a governing council/representatives of some sort. The actual structure is mainly nuance, as with the structure of civic responsibility, most government structures can work.

>>110871284

How does this government fight off the creation of a welfare state? Are people okay with allowing their fellow population to die in the absence of a safety net or other forms of social spending? It sounds like collectivism could be a major issue from those who disagree with the current form of government.

>>110872142
I'm still hopeful that social and economic exclusion is sufficient.

Let's say there's a hypothetical minarchist paradise. We have a small town community somewhere, conservative as can be. They're against abortion, but abortion is not against the law. If some young girl gets knocked up, she has a choice. Either get an abortion, and face being denied access to all services (including water, food, electricity, roads) or keep the baby with all its consequences.
Some might argue this isn't a choice because the community is forcing her to keep the baby but this simply isn't true, she's free to pack her shit and move to a community that does look favorably towards abortion. No one is forcing her to stay there and keep the baby.

Obviously you can just change abortion by anything else. Being vegan, having a tattoo, being racist, being of a certain skin color. I still think communities regulating their internal behavior through social and economic cohesion can work.

>>110872606
Only veterans vote in the society. Veterans tend to go very right wing historically. Don't think it would be a major issue.

>>110872606
The primary forces preventing such would be the nature of the electorate, as the type of people willing to give up years of their life to the collective generally would not want gibs. I could see something fundamental in an establishing document could prevent such a thing (establishing the valid purposes of the government). If the population wishes for a saftey net, they are not prevented from creating their own and funding it themselves.

>>110867073
>Only those who complete a 2 year (or longer if there is need (soldier in time of war)) may vote.
>Government only exists for defense, diplomacy, infrastructure, and criminal and civil law.
You must be kidding, then the bigotred goverment and the capitalist establisment is only there to defend the interest of the bourgeoisie and a militar caste

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>>110873547
Get fucked Commie.

>>110873547
The military caste is open to the proletariat, and the government cannot legitimately support the burgoise is this system.

>>110873324
>>110873201

I'm not talking about the electorate, I'm talking about the non-voting population who would refuse to fight, but still expect social spending to care for the weak of the nation. Though the nation would laugh at their refusal to become a citizen and vote for the things they want, public demonstrations, rioting, etc. are all possible outcomes if this group refuses to acquiesce.

The opinions of the non-voting bloc of the nation would still be a key aspect the government would have to consider. Even if people can't vote (for a variety of possible choices or reasons), that doesn't mean they wouldn't have opinions about the state of the nation. Some may even be willing to act on these opinions through violence.

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>>110867073
This
A military meritocracy is the best government for a hypothetical future society that may one day find itself in a state of perpetual war with ayy lmaos which we probably will.

>>110867073
You should watch the movie to see why this is a bad idea.
Not everyone is fit to be a soldier.
Permanent state of war is not an efficient way to rule a country.
The military needs to serve the civilians, not the opposite.

>>110874098
Non voting groups can complain all they wish, they are free to dissent as much as they want, but they will not get anything through demanding from a government they refuse to join. The service term is not just military, it is also public works. Any demonstrations that turn violent would be quashed, not tolerated. The vast majority would not feel a need to rise up against a nation that does not intrude on their lives, its very hard to have unrest when the government exerts almost no pressure on the people.

Keep in mind the responsibilities of government is smaller, and things like a safety net is outside their legitimate purview

>>110867851
where the fuck did the nazis even find that many women

>>110874730
The director never even read the book. The state has no need to prove the necessity of its existence through war, as the system works fine in a peacetime society. The military cannot vote, only those who are finished in their service can, the book makes a point to rant on why having the active military vote would destroy society.

Should I read starship troopers?

That was my grandfather's favorite book when he was a kid and he always tried to get me to read it when I was like 14.

>>110874730
>Not everyone is fit to be a soldier.
That's acknowledged in the book.
Not everyone is fit to be a soldier, and not everyone needs to be a citizen, non-citizens are not discriminated against, they just don't have the right to vote or run for an elected office. The main premise is that if they're not fit to sacrifice themselves for the common good, they're not fit to vote or run either.

>>110870738
No, it's not a totalitarian government, it's a limited democracy. Have you even read the book?

>>110875350
Highly reccomend it, even without the political dialogue it is a compelling coming of age story, very good book to read around 14, but still worth a read afterwards

>>110871064
And, it's not what the books says. It says "Federal Service" - which means anything from military service, to public service (politician), research, education, any service the Federation supplies.

The main character chooses military, thus the book.

>>110875453
No I haven't, why else would I ask?

>>110874730
>>110875420
Also, this >>110875643
It's not about who's fit to be a soldier but who's willing to do something for society and not just his own interest.

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Ya'll need to remember when humanity expands into space nation states as we recognize them will not exist and society will go back to the wild west on the frontier. Expect every Ayn Rand and Jim Jones to buy up space ships and make communes and gultches beyond the reach if any Earth government. It's entirely possible, even likely, rival human civilizations will rise to challenge Earth dominace. The political system most devoted to military capability will have an advantage.

Additionally when we inevitably discover alien intellegence it's safer to assume they'll be like us. They could have the mentality of a bunch if cuck pushovers or they could see us the way the Belgians saw the Congolese. Assuming we don't go extinct before a war with alien intellegence is inevitable. We need to be ready.

>>110876014
obviously meant >>110875665

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>tfw no intensely loyal, sexually voracious, physically powerful, mentally hyper-malleable, artificially human GF

I swear Heinlein must have been furiously masturbating as he wrote some of these novels.

>>110867073
>>Only those who complete a 2 year (or longer if there is need (soldier in time of war)) may vote.


I'm ok with this.

t. vet

>>110875420
>Not everyone is fit to be a soldier, and not everyone needs to be a citizen, non-citizens are not discriminated against,
They do not have the right to vote, it's a discrimination.

>>110875331
>the system works fine in a peacetime society
It wouldn't in practise. There is no need for a military this big to exist in time of peace.
The military instinct of self-preservation would incite them to cause more wars.

Kind of like Nazi Germany, and fascism in general, which encourages an almost permanent state of war, be it mental, ideological, or physical. Starships troopers universe need enemies to unite.

>>110874098
Heinlein doesn't go into it, but in comments he made over the years, his intent was that for the non-Majority, the non-voters, still retained all rights US Citizens have now, except the right to vote. They can do as they see fit - Rico's father is a businessman, for example.

The book is set in a future when the "Bennies for all" democracy has fallen. It's been replaced with a new system, where full citizenship is a reward for work. He doesnt go into the lives of the different classes, but I'm sure if he'd delved into it, there would have been rich, and poor, and some sort of social net, even with his Libertarian mindset.

The interesting part is the Federation is required to find work for anyone who desires it, no matter what it is, or who the person is, so that would wipe out a lot of "social spending", in Heinlein's universe, there would be no welfare class, they'd be working. (He was a bit of an optimist there).

But as he wasn't diving into social policy, it's not a focus of the book. He didn't write the book to solve every problem, he was reacting to the nuclear test bans and the attacks on Nationalism and patriotism in the late 50's.

>>110874730
The movie is a cartoon. The book is only worth discussing.

>>110876666
I obviously don't mean that the book is fascist in anyway whatsover, the comparison is merely on this point.

>>110875665
>>110876108
Oh. In which case, well it's less bad than I though it was, but still requires endless war to fuel the war machine.

>>110875350
YES. Read it. There are 3 books you should read, of Heinlein's - The Moon Is Harsh Mistress, Stranger In a Strange Land, and Starship Trooper. If you like them, go on to Time Enough For Love, which will open up the Lazerus Long books.

>>110874388
Doubles confirm

>>110871064
No its only soldiers cannot vote.
For some reason, Heinlein believed that that physical force of the military should not be coupled with the political force of being able to vote.

>>110876872
Not really. During peacetime, you could put more people in a civil service (for example, to build infrastructure).

>>110874901

If the government started killing people public opinion quickly turns sour. Part of the issue with what you are trying to describe is that in the book the government is established and accepted by people. If we were to attempt this government in our world there would be massive backlash. Those dependent on the state would die. Those who sympathize with those dependents would be unhappy with the state. People stripped of their rights would be unhappy. There is no government who is limited to such a degree. In our world, government corruption is rampant, and I have trouble imagining the benevolence or even indifference of the ST government being effectively implemented. Preferential public works to favor certain regions (black people wouldn't be happy to see their neighborhoods demolished or neglected!). Not to mention the needs of a government in terms of keeping its populace safe. Regulation is necessary in various ways or else you get ancap-tier memeballs coming true.

>>110876739

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. I still have trouble believing people would want to work and not just want to suck off the state, or else you get the following sequence of events;

>leeches don't work, don't vote
>hardworking people do work, do vote
>hardworking people vote to let the leeches starve
>backlash from leeches and cucks crying about gibs
>hardworking people either look like nazis or give in to the sob stories

In fiction, yeah sure let them starve. In reality I'm not sure how many are willing to pull that trigger. It would be a necessary move, ultimately, but I doubt it would be an earnest platform someone would run on to cut govt. spending.

>>110875727
Yet, you still chose to make a declarative statement "I know it's a totalitarian government", which is demonstrably wrong.

Read the fucking book, then come back and discuss it.

>>110876178
Post brain damage Heinlein was a horrible writer.

>>110873547
>You can't have a caste that anyone can join

>>110876666
It is not discrimination. Anyone who wishes to achieve citizenship is entitled to a term of service. There is 0 prejudice or social issue involved. People should not have the right to exert the force of the vote upon the wider population unless they are willing to give up their time, and if needed their lives, to the state.

You have ignored what I have explained as to why it would work. Active military members cannot vote and cannot cause warfare, nor do they have any incentive to do so. The book goes so far as to say that people are united because of the liberty and security they are afforded. Prove that you would need enemies to keep the system running, as no feature mentioned can be construed as needing warfare in order to function

>>110876178
Friday is when he started getting indulgent with his Oedipus complex and sexual freakiness. There have been rumors for decades he and his wife were swingers. I'm a big fan of his writings, but some books, I just read once and have never bothered with since - Sail Beyond The Sunset was his "Mommy fucks everybody" book, and the whole thing was just fucking ridiculous.

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I prefer the Libertarian one

>>110877291
I think that the problem with an unchecked military, especially a junta like there seems to be in the book (correct if I'm wrong), will always try to keep its power by expending and expending means endless war, or at least a common enemy, be it real or imagined.

All Juntas irl are corrupt.

>>110877301
You do realise that most people on welfare hate it and try to get off it as fast as possible, right ?

Martial democracy

>>110877230
No, he believed that people should earn the right to vote, through public service. Not just soldiers could vote - you have to work for the Federation in some capacity for 2 years to vote. Like, work for their version of the FBI, or the DMV, or Library of Congress, or EPA.

The whole "only soliders can vote" idea comes from the movie, which was a cartoon.

>>110877905
Keep in mind that the military has no citizen right either. You get them after you come back to civil life. People in power are not the military, some of them have been in the military, so it's not a junta at all.

>>110877905
The military is checked by veterans, again, the military has 0 actual political power, either in politics or in electorate

>>110877905

You're joking, right? Nonwhites would be completely happy living their entire lives on welfare without a single day of honest work.

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>>110867073
>>Only those who complete a 2 year (or longer if there is need (soldier in time of war)) may vote.
That's a great idea.
I'm sure such a system would work splendidly since every military in the world so far has consisted of only the brightest and most far-sighted individuals.

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>>110867073

All citizens should be equal under the law BUT only those who PAY taxes should be allowed to vote. If you live off of other people's taxes you should NOT have any say in how tax money is spent.

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It's basically Sparta in Space. Which is awesome.

>>110878397
Paying taxes is not a very high bar for social responsibility, while better than no standard, I would contend that there should be more 'skin in the game' than currency

>>110877905
It's not a junta at all. There's no description in the book that would lead anyone to think it is. It's a limited democracy.

Read the book. Just go read it. It's easy to find in the pirate ebook world. It's pointless to discuss it with you unless you do.

>>110878315
The goal is not intelligence, it is intent and will, which are the core of any successful society

It is actually really strange. But Heinlein once wrote a short essay/short story about how a "nigger wench" is elected president, and saves america by knocking down the border wall between America and Mexico.

>>110878269
I don't like to sprout memes, but that's some serious ideology here.

>>110868576
Define statism

>>110874388
This. Enemy will be needed 100% of the time, though. And it has to be a real one, not a perceived one like in the cold war.

So those ayyylmaos better come sooner rather than later.

>>110877301

>hardworking people either look like nazis or give in to the sob stories

In a society that isn't cucked by globalist bleeding hearts, most people wouldn't care if a leech calls them a nazi.

Additionally, it was implied that prior to the emergence of the federation, the existing governments were pansy welfare states which collapsed leading to a time of chaos. Perhaps this would be sufficient to wipe away a stigma against labor focused nationalism.

>>110878845

Have you seen the american negro with your own two eyes? It may be a case of you not realizing just how shitty the nonwhite situation in the US is, but I can guarantee you these people gladly cash their welfare check without any hope to get off the government dole.

>>110867073
Yes! Holy fuck I love this book. Definitely one of my all-time favorites.

We should hand out lashes instead of jail time. Let's see how many bikes Tyrone can steal with his skin flayed right off his back.

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this book is required reading for every young real white american male and anyone else that is on white american males' side

>>110879296
>Don't talk about dem niggers you yuropoor
>Let me tell you about your country and its massive Muslim problem though
Ok /pol/

I'm white, by the way.

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>>110878617
Nope... I GREATLY prefer an all volunteer military of professional soldiers.

Most Liberals are NOT tax payers, most conservatives ARE tax payers. Generally people start off as liberals then as time passes they see that government SUCKS at spending money wisely (our public school system spends more per student then almost any other country in the world, but the RESULTS are not some of the best in the world). As people age they generally become more conservative.

So is the book satire or is it sincere?

I know the movie is, but I find it hard to get a clear picture from the book in all honesty.

>>110872606
>people die without government gibs

Wew lad

>>110879602

Read the book. The people in the federation's military are all volunteers. In fact the recruiter even tries to turn the main character away when he comes to apply even though he was an overall healthy and reasonably intelligent young man. That was the whole point, enlistment must be genuinely volunteer and also non-deniable, they have to find a use for anyone who is willing to spend their time and potentially risk their lives for their country.

>>110879751

The book is sincere, but a bit campy.

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>>110879565

>every american makes the same talking points

>>110879762

Disable EBT for a month. See how many black people survive.

>>110879602
I understand this, but the military is still entirely volunteers, there would not be a loss in quality (training is intentionally rigorous to weed out weak willed)

Taxes are a duty, volunteering for service is an act worthy of franchise.

>>110878397
And the more you pay the more votes you get?

Actually, it is possible that that is what happened in Starship Troopers. The tax situation is not ever made clear, but is seem entirely possible that the only taxes an ordinary citizen would ever pay are the 2 years of service.

>>110875350
Your grandfather has great taste

>>110867073
The Authority / Responsibility moral equation is a legitimately good philosophical argument. Also, it's one of the best descriptions of the day to day as well as the psychological purpose of boot camp that I've ever read.

>>110874996
women will always follow the strong, just look at history books.

for fuck sake the Rome guys cucked the Etruscans and took their women, when the Etruscans went after the women screamed NOOOOOO dont kill each other. Lets just say we dont learn about the Etruscans in schools today.

>>110880230
Yeah, the campiness is why I have a hard time getting a clear idea of if it's meant as a satire or not.

Having read the book I can see why people don't like the movie though, which is clearly satire.

>>110879296
They were'nt always like that. The majority of slaves, when freed, and given land, worked the land, and worked hard. Up until about the 80's, it was still shameful in the black community to not work, and millions of black men and women had jobs, and worked hard, like the rest of us.

But too many of them, since the 80;'s, have never known a household where the parents worked. They only know government checks. They're not encouraged to work, either by liberal social workers, or their own families. I've seen that in real life, a young black woman who's encouraged to "go get your check" instead of starting a career.

Some fo them escape that mindset. Too many don't, and that number is growing.

And, it's not just blacks. There are far too many white people in the same boat - and a lot of them abusing disability and such to avoid working.

The biggest problem is, once in the system, it's almost impossible to get out. Liberals have abused and manipulated social services to create permanent ghettos of broke, stuck Democrat voters, who can only survive on the largess of liberal politicians. Blacks and white. It's so entrenched now, with so many generations who don't know any other way, that they believe there is no other way - and when they do try to break free, the brainwashed ghettos dwellers pull them back in.

>>110880809

Well the movie is fun in its own right, even if it is poking fun at the novel

>>110880080
But the FLAW is they are NOT professional soldiers. They are there to GET citizenship.
It is wasteful to spend money training a person who will drop out as soon as they meet a time threshold.

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>>110867073
It's so perfect

>>110879751
The book is sincere. Heinlein was a career Naval officer who was forced out due to health issues, and his patriotism and nationalism were real. He was also a hardcore libertarian, and incredibly smart.

By all accounts, the book was written with his views being the views of the main character's teacher. He wrote it in the late 50's, when the shift towards liberalism was happening.

>>110880809
The "campiness" was just Heinlein - that pervades all of his writing, it defines it. He wrote the book as a juvenile - up to this book he made most of his money publishing simple, fun books for kids, and this one got turned down, so he rewrote parts for a teen audience. This is when he stopped writing for kids/teens and started writing serious novels.

>>110881074

You only get citizenship if you get the equivalent of an honorable discharge, and quitting early doesn't count for that (and if you quit, you don't get to try again later). The training program itself is brutal enough that the vast majority of those who enter it voluntarily withdraw, forfeiting citizenship, which should weed out anyone who doesn't really care about being a soldier.

>>110880983
He wasn't poking fun at the novel, he never read i. The movie is a smarmy, snarky attack on patriotism and service and the military, by a liberal who doesn't understand any of that, and despises it. The Nazi references were intentional.

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>>110867851
>tfw no right wing paradise

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>>110882305
Citizenship should not solely depend on your abilities as a soldier. That is the major FLAW in his government structure. I repeat training people for jobs that they intend to not do after a set time period id WASTEFUL of taxpayer money. The SOLE criterion for a VOTING citizen is if they pay taxes or not (by pay taxes I mean they must give the government MORE money then what it gives them). ALL government employees (who live off the state) should NOT be able to vote, nor welfare recipients or those retired and receiving their income from the government.

>>110867073
Not good. Military will set up an aristocracy.

You need male land owners to be able to vote. And to keep lower class from being stomped on non land owning males should be able to vote as well. If you want a better solution here:

People who can vote:
>White male citizens 18+ who are not on welfare
>white female citizens age 30+ or age at least age 20 who is raising a child. Also not on welfare.

>>110883474
>Citizenship should not solely depend on your abilities as a soldier.
Well, it's good that he doesn't say that anywhere in the book then huh?

Another one who's never read the fucking book, but will run his mouth for hours over it.

>>110883474

>Citizenship should not solely depend on your abilities as a soldier.

It doesn't depend on your ability. Merely your ability to commit. A person who is not able to physically keep up but does not quit will simply be reassigned to something else that they can do.

>I repeat training people for jobs that they intend to not do after a set time period id WASTEFUL of taxpayer money.

The program is specifically designed to weed out these kinds of people.

>The SOLE criterion for a VOTING citizen is if they pay taxes

Fuck that. Idiots can get money. Degenerates can get money. (((They))) have more money than they know what to do with.

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>>110885154
>(((They))) have more money than they know what to do with.
EXCELLENT then ((they)) can pay for the government to run, OR would you prefer someone else to pay for it.

>>110884641
Also, not everyone in the Military is going to be a Grunt. That's not even the case today. Intel or Drone operators come to mind.

>>110885523
The book even has an example, his friend goes into research.

>>110883535
funny this cuck does not realize his "white" people. are fucking faggots, who are democrats and think they speak for all brown, and blacks that they want welfare.

>>110885457

I do not want globalist kikes running the government whether they pay taxes or not.

>>110868473
that sounds amazing

>>110887353

Depends on your favorite space marine book. Starship Troopers makes it sound awesome. Armor makes it sound like hell.

>>110877894
Ya, but it is a pretty depressing message.

> You have two choices. Neglect, where you will be exploited and neglected until eventual societal collapse. Or smothering fascism, where your caring neighbors force you to act in a certain way for your own good.

>>110889883
That's not the message of the book, at all. Only a retard leaf like you could pull that out of your ass after reading that book.

>>110867763
FPBP

>>110867073
I'd say it's the only workable alternative to a white ethnostate (though preferably we'd have both in place as we march across the galaxy)

>>110872606
Martial law was the key. Society is at the point in the book where the people couldn't imagine any other way of life. Although it is alluded to, Heinlein never goes into specific detail about the transitional years after the fall of the XXth century.

And if you're too lazy to read this great book, basically, spank your fucking kids when they act up, and set rules for them to follow. If they don't follow the rules, spank the fuck out of them until they get it.

>>110890497
Who said it was white? Heinlein didn't. The main character is from Buenos Aires. Race is never mentioned, except for one character, who's last name is "Ho", so it's assumed he's Chinese.

It's implied that the Federation rises out of the ashes of failed democracies that lose a world war to the Chinese, and that it includes all continents except Asia.

Your reading of race into this is your own prejudices - Heinlein never bothered with nonsense like that.

>>110892153

>Race
>Nonsense

t. Euphoria reader

>>110892451
To be fair, it is fairly irrellevant, as there is no dysgenic welfare state. They can live like the rats they are for all anyone cares. If a nigger is willing to put his life on the line for the country, I'd respect them more than a white who wouldnt.

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>>110874388
Oh shit, AYYY Lmaos confirmed

>>110867073
>implying humanity will go spaceborne as a whole

>>110869409
At first I just skipped past this comment but now I'm genuinely curious about which book you think we're talking about.

>>110871064
Worked for Athens. Their democracy only started to fail when they expanded the right to vote to individuals other than those who fought in the phalanx.

>>110892451
>No real response, hides behind meme
>can't counter with facts
>fedora revealed

>>110869409
>he only watched the movie
e x p o s e d

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>>110867073
I'm pretty sure this book has a deeper meaning than most of you wannabe National Socialists believe. If you read Heinlein's other books you'll find he's a tree hugging liberal. Still a good book tho.

>>110897289
Heinlein was old school Libertarian, dummy. He was very vocal about it, and wrote about it at length - his books, starting with Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, is an exploration of Libertarianism.

He wrote letters talking about how he hated the hippies who showed up at his door, because they read Stranger In A Strange land, and thought he was one of them.

But you keep running your mouth, without having a clue what you're talking about.

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no, these are

>>110873547
I thought the Nationalists won... hmm.

>>110898086
>He wrote letters talking about how he hated the hippies who showed up at his door, because they read Stranger In A Strange land, and thought he was one of them.
That's exactly why I think he's one. I couldn't finish that piece of garbage.

>>110898287
>I know what political philosophy is

The only ones that manage to provide an ideology are Rand, Nietzsche, and Orwell tangentially. Even the Orwell was just saying what was wrong, not what was right.

Having to enlist in the army to vote sure sounds like freedom :^)

>>110899485
Giving everyone the ability to exert force through the state sure sounds like freedom too Hanz. The real question is what right do you have to do so.

>>110874730
fitness is discussed in detail when rico is being evaluated.

the state NEVER turns down a volunteer. i'm sure the quote is something along the lines of

>even if you're blind, crippled, and mentally retarded, we'll find a way for you to serve; even if it's mindlessly counting toothpicks for twenty hours a day

they even use less competent volunteers as guinea pigs in weapons research.

the important take away (again, explicit in the text) is that a major aspect of you earning your citizenship is surviving your service, which they typically make as difficult as possible for every service-member.

regardless, I also love the book and Heinlein did not have a hidden liberal agenda. he wrote the book as an argument of how nukes can exist as a deterrent without necessarily being used as a world-ending weapon, which leads to the mobile infantry.

his true political ideology is expressed in the moon is a harsh mistress, another great sci-fi romp.

>>110900162
I don't get your point.

>>110900519
Of course you don't, franchise is not freedom, it is the use of force through the state. Such an ability should be reserved only for those who have demonstrated loyalty and selflessness. The government, being hands off for the most part, allows for far more freedom than an unlimited democracy

>>110867073
The book is pretty much greatness condensed in words. The character, Johnnie Rico, moves through quite a few challenging topics about a philosophical themes related to war, military lifestyle, etc.

Still, the book gives it as it is: A civil life is not the same as the military life. Do not expect a system to franchise this kind of government simply because not everyone is up to live his life serving his government and/or nation.

There's no such thing as a perfect government. Get over it. Utopias are always doomed to fail.

>>110867073
>hey pol can I into thinking too plz

>>110901086
So you're saying it's not freedom? Then we agree!

>>110899152
I won't defend it, it's not even close to being one of my favorites, but he was in no way a "tree hugging liberal". If you even glance at his bio, you know how laughable that is.

Stranger has some interesting ideas in it, in the first half, but I dislike how he used Islam to build an ethical base, considering Islam is a death cult. And the second part is just silly, except for making fun of Mormonism.

>>110902199
Are you talking about freedom? Or liberty? They's not the same. And i think you don't know the difference, let alone how and when Heinlein discussed it.

>>110901086
ER...no. You should use "liberty" when talking about politics and government.

"Generally, liberty is distinctly differentiated from freedom in that freedom is primarily, if not exclusively, the ability to do as one wills and what one has the power to do; whereas liberty concerns the absence of arbitrary restraints and takes into account the rights of all involved. As such, the exercise of liberty is subject to capability and limited by the rights of others.[4]" - Wikipedia

>>110867073
what is this book?

>>110904241
Apologies (same guy), in that sense I cannot think of a government that provides more liberty to its citizens, but I would say it is still a rather free nation in the sense that the government interferes as little as possible.

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>>110868473
>tfw born to late to fight in WW2 but born to early to fight in the Bug Wars

>>110905839
Mein Kampf obviously

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>>110869562
probably the other way around. That cover for the book didn't come out until recently within the last 10 years. the older ones were different. pic related.

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>>110867073
sounds bad.
those (the group of people) who come into power will never lose it. and who exactly enforces those punishments onto the top folks if one group holds all he power?
sounds kinda naive.

personally i believe that a system based on any amount of goodwill is bound to fail. a good balance of power must be deeply imbedded in the core structure of any system in order to avoid corruption.

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>>110868162
hell yes anon

>>110872485
read the book it explains why they're fighting.

>>110876061
I think any space aliens out there probably won't be that cucked.

Cucks are all "we gotta solve our problems on earth, don't waste the welfare money on a spaceship!"

Alphas make the fucking spaceship to conquer more and more.

>>110876666
>muh discrimination

>>110867073
Law of Nations by Emer de Vattel is the most based piece of political philosophy in history. Allows and demands nationalism while highlighting individualism.

10/10

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>>110867073
You guys have to read Farnham freehold. It's like pols worst nightmare.

Heinlein was pol before pol was pol.

>>110874730
>The military needs to serve the civilians, not the opposite.

t. eternal cuck

Prussian society ftw