Anti-Abortion

>>110379665
You're wrong bro. At some point it become a human but other than EXTREME late term abortion the process does not end a human life.

Most people consider someone being no longer being alive when their heart stops beating and/or when they stop breathing.

A fetus cant do these two functions until way late into the process and if you were to pull those cells out of the mother during the time that approved abortions are done it wouldnt be a baby (esp cause it couldnt do those two things).

Abortions in 3rd trimester are pretty much murder though. At about 6mos on that is a living thing that has the potential to live and breath on its own with a little bit of help.

>arguing on youtube
yes you're wrong

>>110381711
I'm confused, how is an embryo in the process of building an ability to breath and having a human heart not human?

To me it would be like saying a baby isn't human cause its brain isn't fully developed yet and it has no teeth. Every single one of us were embryos at one point of our lives. Were we not human at our conception?

>>110381841
Like I said I've been through special education.

>>110381711
Abort yourself, it's a human being from conception onwards. There is no magic arbitrary distinction.
>>110379665
You are scientifically correct OP. Link them to the Ben Shapiro abortion video or perhaps some fetus gore

>>110381841
If the leafer says it's wrong, you must be right OP

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Abortion is a human sacrifice ritual -- the most powerful known to exist. It was invented by eugenics operatives within the occultic elite to cury Satan's favor while gaining his protection of their warmaking, usury, currency manipulation, and control over the minds of men.

Why is abortion the most powerful form of ritual human sacrifice? Because it entails the most defenseless victims conceivable (the unborn) being murdered by the very persons most duty-bound to love and protect them from harm -- their own mothers, and medical doctors who've sworn oaths to their gods to do no harm.

These ritual murders which society misnames abortions are, furthermore, carried out in a nonchalant and routinized fashion exclusively to facilitate hedonistic apathy, laziness, and convenience; symbolically placing ten seconds of vaginal pleasure above the value of a human lifetime's worth of a living, breathing human being's consciousness.

In short, Satan loves abortion because it symbolizes evil within cruelty within evil. It proffers that a few seconds of vaginal contractions mean more than human life itself, and it does this using the greatest symbols of love and compassion (mothers and doctors), satanically inverted into spiritually numbed, unfeeling executioners.

So the next time you see a western woman screeching about her abortion rights on the steps of some state capitol, look into her empty eyes and know that you're seeing more than a simple murderer. Look into her eyes and know that you're seeing a demon, the very definition of evil. And know that the steady stream of death she inflicts on the unborn is what powers the elite's satanic karma.

>>110382625
Yes a single cell, indistinguishable from a single cell from your elbow skin is a human, right

>>110379665
>"you're a bad person"

Maybe, but you probably never took a human life like these backwards agnostic retards.

>>110383673
Yes, this is my human body with my human skin cells.

>>110384563
Wait but are you saying that all your skin cells are individual humans like every zygote is an individual human? That was my point... what makes a zygote a human?

>>110385126
both a human cell (as long as it is alive, actively metabolising and capable of reproducing) and the entire human body can be taken as alive. That my cells are alive does not lessen the fact that I am too. It is just a matter of perspective.

Should we ask /sci/?

>>110385689
Well my perspective is that when my girlfriend had a miscarriage we didn't fake a week off work and mourn for 6 months after an expensive funeral. In fact, nobody does that. Not to say miacarriages arent sad, but clearly people dont treat them like the death of even a very young human. Why is that? Furthermore, I sure as shit don't cry when a living thing like a skin cell dies.

>>110379665

No, the woman is just reverting to muh reproductive rights meme

By 8 weeks the heart is beating, and that is when it is generally safe for Planned $$$ Parenthood to do abortions.

So ask her when it is 8 weeks old and its heart is beating and its tiny brain is emitting waves, is it still not human?

She is saying shit about abortion from 1960s technology when no one had a fucking clue there was a heart there at 8 weeks beating.


>i have experience with them, they wouldnt do one before 8 weeks
>ours had no heartbeat

>>110379665
God dude why do liberals have to be such fucking faggots about stuff. I'm fine with people aborting their babies so they purge their genetic line, but I really want be against it because of those faggots.

>>110387789
Whoa sonny save that energy for algebra ii tomorrow!

>>110379665
Any cohesive group of unique human dna is a life. Sperm and Eggs do not have full sets of dna. Human embryos have unique dna that isn't shared by the host. Cancer is mutated human dna

There is no logical argument for abortion. None at all.

Abortionist argument #1:

>My body is my property!

You cannot trap someone on your property and kill them because they can't remove themselves.

Outside of rape, you placed the child inside you.

Abortionist argument #2:

>It's a clump of cells! Not a baby!

Babies are clumps of cells. You're a clump of cells. I'm a clump of cells.

A fetus is part of our human life cycle--we were all fetuses once. We were all kids once. We become adults. We become elders. It's all part of the lifecycle.

Abortionist argument #3:

>It will have a poor miserable life!

It will still have a chance at a life. Oprah had a poor miserable childhood.

By your logic, we should go around killing people who have miserable lives. We're doing them a favor, right?

Abortionist argument #4

>What about rape and incest?! Huh, huh?!

Sure. It's not the baby's fault, but let's only allow abortion in the case of rape or incest.

That outlaws 99% of all abortions currently done. Abortion is just murder of convenience.

>>110388032
But... all of your cells have a complete set of dna... are they all a life? Is that one neuron in your asshole really a life? Seriously?

>>110383060
this tbqhwy

>>110386368
Maybe because you don't consider it human even thought scientifically it is, or was human.

Perhaps you thought it didn't feel anything when it died, making you more relived.

For some people it is a heart breaking experience, and they do consider it a loss of a child cause it was. How was it not?

I mean, look at our friends at Ctrl Alt Delete

LOSS

>>110379665
I pretty much have the same belief that human life begins at conception. It seems obvious doesn't it?

I think you made very cogent points and you're just arguing with a brainwashed marxist. There is virtually no hope for these people. You should be confident in your opinions here and not need to seek validation from /pol/.

Human life does start at fucking birth. All the DNA is paired up taken from the father and mother, left alone the embryo will develop into an infant, into a child, into an adult. These people just come up with muh feels and bs science to attempt to justify infanticide, don't buy their bullshit, you obviously know better.

>>110379665

>abort a fetus
>strong woman made a choice

>kill a pregnant woman
>double homocide

>>110388415
I agree on all , but much like anything illegal, people find a way. And if abortion is made 100% illegal, then lots of women will be doing wild shit and going to dark underground clinics to get it done.

I'm fine with abortion but it would be nice to stop the lel let's go get this shit sucked out , whoops!

>>110389841
And then they get sent to jail for murder right?

>>110389465
I think this has a good point.. in an implied sense. Laws can always be changed but the existence of this particular law alludes to the common sense that a pregnancy is the mother AND her yet to be born child.

Just a reminder, there are NO Christians on /pol/. Anyone on /pol/ spouting Christian beliefs if LARP because being Christian and Anti-Abortion is currently the most edgy and least popular lifestyle. 3 years ago, NO ONE gave a shit about abortion, much less christcuckery until they realized it triggered liberals.

Any Christcuckery displayed on /pol/ is for the triggering of liberals or is ironic.

>>110390635
I'm agnostic, not christian but I believe abortion is murder of another human being.

>>110390635
Yeah it's as nonconformist as you can be and still piss people off while being taken seriously. It is the same attitude teenagers always have because they get hard pissing off their parents and other authority figures.

>>110379665
Didn't read the whole thing, and while I am a huge Trump supporter and right winger, abbortion is prefectly fine from a biological/developmental standpoint. I suggest reading up on gastrulation, neurulation, and development. I'm cool with abortion until ~5-6 months.

How can people think that embryos aren't alive? I'm willing to listen to arguments about how much value the life of the embryo has against the life of a human being that has been born (or is older of course), but to pretend like the fertilized egg isn't even a lifeform is just incorrect.

In order for you to consider that the case you would have to believe that life didn't begin on Earth until the first fish swam in the sea, but we all know life started much earlier and much smallar than plants and animals.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html

>>110391570
That's cute, but what about the science?

>>110390558
>>110389465

Uh seriously?

It's obvious why those laws are not contradictory if you stop and think critically for even a moment

>>110391429
Right so according to that analogy, if we took it to the start of life (not the very very start which we don't exactly know but there is strong evidence that it was self reproducing RNA) then the trillions of bacteria in our intestine (which outnumber our ~30-70 trillion cells) should have the same rights as humans. So to make distinctions, we consider developmental complexity, and until ~5-6 months, fetuses do not have any of the features that would give strong credence to considering them humans.

I can go more into the biology if you need it.

>>110391429
Just because it is alive doesn't mean it should be considered a protected human life. I don't know who is saying they aren't alive... of course, one definition of life involves being capable of surviving with your own systems and anot embryo can't do that

>>110379665
Cancer can happen for no reason dummy.

We get tumors all the time, jusy our body usually breaks it up before it's too late.

Doesn't matter, you're both retarded.

>>110390809
If you can't convince them that every stage of embryo development is human, you can at least make them acknowledge that destroying something with the potential to be human carries some moral weight, which increases as the fetus develops, and it should be a sobering decision not to be taken lightly, a wake-up call to avoid unwanted pregnancies. Before you do that, try to see if you can get them to define when a fetus becomes a baby, and when abortion becomes unacceptable, anyone but the most rabid of SJW's will oppose abortion when the baby is viable to live outside the womb. Walk it back from the day before the due date (yes I know it's just an estimate) all the way through the third term. Keep going back until they can name a solid point where humanity is gained.
Also, they seem to be taking the 3rd wave feminist angle and calling you a bad person for supporting abortion. Sophists think this gives them the upper hand, but accusing you of bad faith opens up a major weak point. Point out their Ad Hominem and counter with statistics showing how most of the people strongly opposed to abortion are women, while men are more ambivalent.

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>>110392220
>cancer can happen for no reason

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When a pregnant woman is murdered everyone agrees the baby was also murdered even if she was only a week pregnant.

For all anyone knows she was planning on aborting the kid the next day, and yet nobody even thinks to consider her intent. A baby was murdered.

The killer is demonized for the barbarism of ending a life in the womb. It's viscerally disgusting to literally every single human being that isn't totally damaged.

And we stop recognizing this barbarism when the mother is the one who intends to end the baby's life why exactly?

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>>110379665
No. The person you're arguing with has no understanding of biology.

Even a zygote has human DNA and its cells are reproducing.
only women think that something that is both alive and a human being isn't a person.

>>110383673
There is no point in human development where you are a single cell

and it's completely discernible because it has different DNA

>>110392451
Well not literally no reason, but certain genes limit the effectiveness of the bodies defense against cancerous growths.

You can never smoke, have a great diet, exercise everyday, and be happy as can be and still get cancer and die at 50 despite nver being exposed to carcinogens.

>>110385126
A zygote has seperate individual human DNA from any other person

>>110379665
Why would you be against shitskins and liberals killing their own offspring? The only concern one needs to have with abortion is how to get muslims to do it as well

>>110379665
>Biologically speaking cancer could be considered human
Because a clump of dead cells is the same as live ones. Stopped reading there. No point in arguing with them.

>>110391429
Most people think that embryos have less value , they just don't over quibble over specific definitions of "alive" because it's a pointless semantic argument which only exists because the term "alive" is insanely imprecise in this context.

A good thought experiment is to consider the opposite extreme where you have a comatose, braindead senior on life support. Is it murder to remove life support if their heart is still beating? How about 50 years from now when we can remove their organs and keep them alive almost indefinitely?

>>110379665

Here's the thing. I too am an atheist and it's wrong because it's the ultimate slippery slope. If it's not wrong to kill a fetus in the womb then it's also not wrong to kill grandma when she's taking a nap and inconveniencing you a bit.

The Walking Dead and Nietzsche sum up what I came to as to why it is wrong because it makes you a little bit more of a monster/calculating machine to do it. This is reasoning completely independent of the existence of a soul or any other such nonsense but merely a measure of your capacity for empathy for others vs. your convenience.

>>110379665
Oh look, it's this thread again
https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html

>>110379665
"They're not human, i can do whatever i want with it, the government can't tell me I can't"
I thought lincoln settled this shit.

>>110392152
>>110392105

I don't think that believing the bacteria is alive necessitates that you believe it has equal rights or equal value to human life. I certainly wouldn't try to make the argument that something like a skin cell has as much value as the organism to which the cell belongs and is a part of.

Again I respect the argument that different lifeforms or different stages of life have different values. Most people would consider an elderly person who has lived most of their life to be worth less than a child who has their whole life ahead of them, to use a simple analogy.

My contention is with the people who claim that the fetus shouldn't be considered alive at all until X stage of development: the fetus is a lifeform at conception, and while that doesn't necessitate that it has inherent equal value to the mother, it does necessitate that its value is not zero if you are someone who values "life"in general. If we agree upon that then the argument becomes what value that life has and at what point it is ok to terminate that life.

>>110393241
cancer cells are alive
but they also share the same DNA as the rest of the cells in the body
so there's no point in bringing them up

>>110393473
>literally using the phrase 'ultimate slippery slope'

You forgot to mention how it's also the ultimate false equivalency

>>110393473

Basically even if it doesn't matter to society that you're killing another life (because they have changed the definition of human life) if you're not ostracized for it but you are still killing a piece of your own capacity for empathy. This brings you closer to the sociopathic state and makes you closer to an insect than a human being.

>>110393954
Sorry if my reasoning makes you feel wrong inside.

>>110379665
you were wrong to try and debate a leftist and expect logic or civility. otherwise, you're correct.

There's a point where it has brain functions and that's where you can, by the strict legal medical definition, call it a living human.

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>>110379665
>A fetus or embryo may be human (much like my spit and hair are human)
Stopped reading there. There is no way anything intellectual can come after that.

>>110392034
Would you mind presenting the reason, Oh Wise one?

>>110392983
>>110392886
>>110392673
>>110392105
>>110389293
>>110389293

lol we don't assign people value because of DNA or how close someone is to being a fully formed human being or how able they are to live without life support.

It's wrong to kill brainless vegetables and people with wildly fucked up genes and premature babies, and we feel this even if they're totally mindless, and even if nobody will lament their loss.

That's what people have to rectify with their belief that it's okay to kill a barely developed, mindless person. Why would they feel bad about stuffing cyanide down a brainless vegetable's throat but not the fetus?

>>110394088
>>110393986
If you can't even articulate your point without quoting logical fallacies by name you may want to reconsider your line of argument.

I guarantee you are no ubermensch and you make decisions every day which "kill a piece of your own capacity for empathy" because those decisions serve your immediate convenience.

It's ethically dishonest of you to apply this extremely personal litmus test to something which has no direct bearing on your life. If you believe that mantra you stated it only has value for you to live it. It's not a measure for governing society en masse and if you think otherwise I suggest re-reading your Nietzsche because you have hugely missed his point

>>110395264
not sure what your argument is here.

DNA is important because it completely destroys the feminist's argument that it's
>part of my body
when it clearly fucking isn't

>>110386368
>In fact, nobody does that.

Maybe not 6 months and an expensive funeral,but human beings with hearts generally do mourn miscarriages and treat them as a death.

Hope you succeeded having another baby, kinda...

>>110395225
It's logically consistent with the pro-abortion position regarding the mother's agency in carrying a pregnancy to term that a pregnancy terminated prematurely without her consent (as in murder, etc.) constitutes murder of the child.

>>110395264
OP here, a vegetable and a fetus isn't even comparable, I wouldn't use that argument at all. A vegetable has no chance to gain any sort of brain function anymore, while an embryo/fetus is in the middle of developing it.

Abortion is the edgiest meme there is. Its not the murder of a human bro :^) hehehe

>>110396241

You state multiple times in your facebook image that an embryo "is alive." Those are your words.

The vegetable is also "alive" unless you want to claim that it's dead because it has no brain function. In which cases embryos are not "alive" either.

Basically stop saying dumb shit and clean up your argumentation if you want to focus on something else entirely, like whether rights should be handed out in the present based on a potential future state.

How much of a self hating nihilist worm can you be "cancer is also alive brah". I post boiling retard rage on pol daily and Im not that misanthropic. Thats because abortion is a meme. A troll. Nobody believes abortions are wholesome and good offline. It is only online, when we put on our masks, that abortion becomes "totally ok whatever"

>>110381711
Ive seen preserved fetus' from weeks 3 to after birth even and i can assure you it every bit resembles a human

>>110397032
An embryo isn't suffering in a vegetative state.

I didn't say a vegetable isn't alive but I'm pretty sure that anyone here would say "If I become a vegetable I want you to kill me"

And the kill me part infers to the fact you're still alive.

And embryo isn't comparable to that state.

The question does not really make sense.

To be murdered under the US Constitution requires one be a "person." But that is not a scientific concept. Being a homo sapiens sapiens is a scientific concept. But personhood is a vague popular term that is often used in reference to the essence of being human, rather than the facticity of being of our species. It is often admitted as a quality androids might have in the future. And it is something people who are brain dead are often said to be lacking.

The Supreme Court ruled it is indeed such a term. And then defined it as not including the early stages of human development that precede viability. There is no room for scientific rebuttal (except fine tuning the date of viability).

Killing members of our species has never been defined as murder for all purposes. There is war, self defense, and criminal punishment. And historically there was dishonoring ones parents, family, or tribe, believing in the wrong god, being allegedly in league with the devil (virtually never a true allegation). Indeed in Europe, death was reigned down on Jews and Muslim for centuries for worshipping the right god (they all worship the same god of Abraham) the wrong way.

Even if murder was plainly applicable, there is the question of when a pregnant woman becomes two individuals? Essentially, this is the question SCOTUS reflections on personhood involved.

And speaking from a theological perspective, there is the question why a woman should not stand in the stead of a demigod concerning any being living inside her body? It has never been clear to me why god alleges jurisdiction over me just because he played a causal role in my existence. My parents had a causal role in my existence, and a less speculative one, but do not have anything like the authority over me that god allegedly does. Nor does a farmer have such authority over his own livestock, which he likewise intervened in the conception of (artificial insemination is the norm

>>110397926
concerning some modern livestock).

On top of this we have the fact that serious minded theologians, clerics, and worshipful people freely admit nothing like proof of god exists. This is the scientific problem of the greatest relevance to the abortion question.

So the question re abortion is actually purely legal and linguistic. There is no debate as to what species the tissue of a pre-personhood fetus or zygote is. There is no question as to whether the cells forming the pre-personhood fetus or zygote are alive.

There is debate as to whether it is ensouled, but that is not a scientific question. Rather it is a religious question and therefore legally irrelevant as religious propositions are forbidden from being enshrined in laws owing to the First Amenment. So this has no place in the legislature or in public policy either.

I am curious what you think pro-choice people believe and/or how you think the law works, such that you advocate their is something science can clarify in this debate?

In the end, your question makes no more sense than my query, "What is the mathematical evidence that the OP does not understand the abortion question or American law?"

Finally, the question I have never seen addressed is why, if abortion was murder based primarily on religious grounds, did it not come to be criminalized in toto until less than two hundred years ago in a religious traditions that are thousands of years old? Note to mention, the Bible enumerates countless reasons for legitimate murder that are far more spacious than abortion.

>>110396045
So the only person who can legally kill an unborn child is its mother.

>>110398058
>There is debate as to whether it is ensouled, but that is not a scientific question. Rather it is a religious question

This is where you fucked up. You create a false dichotomy of science vs. religion and your argument relies on it, even though it is a logical fallacy. "If it's not science it must be religion" is pure bullshit.

>>110379665
I just got another reply from the same person who called me evil

>"You are a lying sack of shit.

>You realize that the CURRENT LAW has restrictions on abortion? And that nobody really argues against those except in triage cases, where your lot would prefer to see the mother die than "abort" an already dead and rotting corpse festering in that sinful woman's womb?

>You're evil because you spout horseshit and people die because of it. ACTUAL PEOPLE, not unfeeling clumps of cells.

>And STILL you have nothing to say about the millions of "human lives" flushed out by the menstrual cycle every fucking year. Why doesn't that loss of life bother you one bit? It's because you don't actually see zygotes as humans, but will pretend you do if it gives you an excuse to stomp on women.

>Get fucked, you vile inhuman scum."

I can't take this seriously

>>110398554
When the mother chooses not to carry to term there is nothing to kill. As I stated, it's the mother's agency in proceeding with a pregnancy which is the crux of the pro-abortion position and if you don't understand what that logically entails then you haven't made a good faith effort to debate it. If you disagree with the pro-abortion position then that's fine but the laws those original posters were quoting were not contradictory.

>>110379665
cancer is your own cells, changed a bit, fighting with your status quo cells to take over, end result is always death. Much like libtards right now. Or why dictators tend to kill their own people even if benevolent. You need a final solution or every cell dies, you get rid of the cancer in order to restore balance of the system, or you lose the system.

Thats why abortion is generally accepted when under risk of death. The mother is proven to be alive, the fetus may or may not survive and may take the mother with it if it does. Is it murder ethically? yeah, but also there was no other choice, so it is a tragedy with no villain, everyone is a victim.

Abortion when there's no risk of anything is murder with no redeeming quality to it

Removing cancer is not accepted as murder as it is your own cells, your own system. If you cut your arm people will think you are crazy but that's about it..

>>110395281

>It's ethically dishonest of you to apply this extremely personal litmus test to something which has no direct bearing on your life.

As a members of society we apply personal litmus tests to murders and crimes and all kinds of bad behaviors that "have no direct bearing on my life". We judge them as a society all the time when they "have no direct bearing on our life"

If society decays downward because no one stands against the devaluing of people's lives then that has "direct bearing on my life"

Nothing fallacious about my analogies you just don't like them.

Society en masse needs to value human life.

It's all moral relativism anyway, but my idea of society is superior because it's in line with successful western ideals.

>>110399717
There is no empirical evidence that determines the value of a life. Your point makes no sense.

>>110399758

Typical liberals bullshit, resorting to lumping you together with a group and arguing about the group instead of the individual.

>>110400381
>There is no empirical evidence that determines the value of a life.

I never said there was, please try reading the content of my post and arguing that instead of whatever bullshit you feel like making up.

>>110400567
Both sides do this shit, hop off your horse.

>>110392105
> until ~5-6 months, fetuses do not have any of the features that would give strong credence to considering them humans.

Other than the fact that a human fetus has human DNA, following a developmental program encoded in that DNA (as well as epigenetics) specific for h. sapien.

You're implying that morphology is the only factor that determines whether something is human. Did you just finish biology 101?

>>110400651
>I never said there was
Then where exactly do you stand on this? If it's not science and not religion then what is it?

>>110400957

Morality.

>>110401138
So an opinion. Gotcha.

>>110398554
Exactly. If a woman doesn't get murder charges for killing an embryo people should be totally happy with me getting nothing more than aggravated assault charges if I drop-kick a pregnant woman and destroy that same embryo.

The only argument against this is that the woman can choose whether it's murder or not, which is fucking laughable.

>>110401269

The only reason murder is illegal in the first place is because of opinions, dipshit.

>>110392578
More than a few libtard circuits are being shorted out in this thread because they can't dismiss pro life arguments as religious fundamentalism anymore. It's pretty entertaining.

So say if the mother is going to die if the child is killing the mother, and therefore the child can no longer survive in the mothers womb since shes dead,

Is that the only right time to have an abortion?

>>110401409
Clearly you didn't read my original post if you feel the need to say this. We choose whatever value we give to a life, and this varies widely between people, and institution. Get with the program.

>>110392105
> then the trillions of bacteria in our intestine (which outnumber our ~30-70 trillion cells) should have the same rights as humans

You also added a very sneaky argument into here. I'll dissect it for you.

Bacteria aren't human you kike. You're joining the concepts of life w rights here, when those are two separate arguments.

1. Is the subject alive?
2. Does it have rights?
Then add
3. How do you define rights?

Stop moving goalposts

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>>110379665
You can sidestep the whole "Is a fetus a human" thing and still be for abortion.

pic related, paraphrasing of JJT's 'famous violinist argument'

>>110400358
Society does not create laws to apply personal moral litmus tests. That's your own wank fantasy. If you love western ideals so much then try reading some actual Western legal theory sometime, for example start with legal positivism.

>>110401583

Then your argument as to whether a fetus is a human life for the sake of considering it murder is irrelevant.

>>110382625
>By the fifth week of the gestation period, the heart starts beating and divides into chambers. Six weeks later blood is flowing inside the body, and there is an improved heartbeat rate of 100 to 160 every minute. So you can hear a baby’s heartbeat at six week gestation.

This is when it should be considered a human. If time of death can be determined by a pulse, time of life should also be able to be determined by a pulse.

However, you can't argue with pro-choicers. The woman's body is her domain and she should be able to do what she sees fit with it. If there is a tumor she should be able to cut it out, if there is an invasive life form, they should decide if it should be removed.

Imagine if your testicle enlarged for 9 months and a huge 8lb very cute tumor pop'd out crying for food and shitting all over the place. This might be great if you wanted that to happen, but to be surprised by this at 9 weeks would be life changing.

So, scientifically and in accordance to the law, once it's heart is beating it should be considered human, and we try to not kill humans as much as possible.

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>>110382717
You're in the right OP. Ask them to define at what point an embryo can be considered a human life. Once they give you the standard response, "once it exhibits primitive brain activity!" you can look up a plethora of standard state restrictions which, unsurprisingly, prevent abortion after brain waves are detectable, i.e. about 12 weeks after conception.

This muddies the water a bit on determining whether or not something is a human life because of its physical appearance, as opposed to the complexity of biological processes in is capable of independently exhibiting. If something can look like a clump of cells, but still independently produces basic human-like brain activity, and your opponents agree that the qualifier for "human" is ultimately determined by human-like brain activity, they can't say that an embryo is not a human just because it doesn't look like one.

>>110379665
>/pol
>gas the jews
>nuke the mudslimes
>lol, libtards got shot in a night club :DDD
>9/11 memes
>oh no people aborting little cells, the cruel humanity :'( we must stop this :'(

>>110401701
Uh, the difference is that you can't legally murder your sister just because she needs your blood to live.

Terrible argument.

>>110386368
My mum had a miscarriage (stillbirth) and is still dealing with the emotional baggage decades on. For morally well adjusted people it's the same as losing a born child.

Incidentally, she could never approve of abortion after the fact.

>>110401876
I wasn't arguing anything, I was literally laying down why it's not considered murder on a legal level. Whether or not you think it is or not is irrelevant until you can get the Supreme Court to change the law surrounding it. Good luck with that though.

>>110401510
it is also accepted in rape, but personally id let the kid be born and take it to social services if it is unwanted by the mother

Then id increase the penalties for rapings that end in pregnancy (like if you rape with a condom you get death sentence, rape without you never get to die).

>>110402025
Maybe they should consider the choice of not fucking like wild animals instead?

If they really don't want to have a shit baby then don't have sex, or have surgery to get your tubes tied instead of participating in the act that is meant for LITERALLY CONCEIVING A CHILD

>>110402110
Of course it's a nordcuck

I think the moment you start engaging with people who justify murder on their terms, e.g. semantics like 'at this point their not human, but after this point they are' or talking about the definitions of cells and what not - you've given them a victory. Because those debates are so absurd, so far beyond the obvious reality and so offensive to life which is universally considered sacred. These people justify child murder, they have no moral high ground, they are not intellectuals; they are filth.

>>110381711
I think the issue pro choicers always avoid is the fact that without intervention that embryo will develop into a human. At exactly what point the fetus becomes human is a complete non issue, once the egg is fertilized it starts a process that inevitably leads to human life being created no matter what point you define it to have actually happened. By stepping in and halting that process it's essentially the same as taking the life.

>>110379665
>Constantly denying access to birth control.
What does that mean?
Are condoms banned in US?

>>110401701

Shitty argument because you presented it as 'sidestepping the fetus as a person' issue.

Well it doesn't because if sidestepped the fetus has rights equally and has body autonomy in the womb where it is trapped.

It's again a shitty argument because without intervention the sister is likely to die.

Without intervention the fetus is likely to live.

Desperately unethical to construct an intervention so the unborn person, that has bodily autonomy of their own. Or should.

>>110389841
Good.
If a woman is so desperate to kill her baby she gets some heroin addict to shove a coat hanger up her vagoo she deserves the internal bleeding it causes

>>110402113
If your sister tried to steal your blood and you cut her off and she dies, that's not murder.

>>110403036
No, and I specifically refereed for women to get their fucking tubes tied before this faggot start spewing dumb shit at me.

I aint paying for that shit tho

>>110402110

I don't say any of that but a fetus is pretty innocent of being my enemy. Props for funny though.

>>110402804
Meh different opinions. Question when is it OK to take a brain dead person off life support?
>>110402948
Personhood is the only thing between abortion and murder. If you want abortion to be considered murder then you need to redefine what personhood is.

>>110379665
>A fetus or embryo may be human (much like my spit and hair are human)
This kind of attitude is exactly why I turned pro-life. It's dehumanizing and this kind of attitude is horrific. It completely devalues human life. Abortion may be necessary in some cases, like to save the mothers life, but to speak about it in those terms, comparing new human life to spit is abhorrent, and leads to these sluts going and getting abortions like it's no big deal. It really is a disgusting attitude we've allowed to permeate through western society.

>>110402804
Well put. Still, it's difficult to convince people with an entirely opposed moral code to yours how you value something as abstract as the potential for human life. Filth, yes, but they still have the power to vote and therefore a method of convincing them to discard their opinions is needed.

>>110403103

Where's my financial autonomy of not having to pay for any of that shit as well.

>>110402948
>haha then men can't wank
Is the response they give that.
They're just extremely selfish and stupid

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Seems kind of screwed up to me to view abortion as a quick fix button. I mean we have birth control, condoms, etc. Yeah in cases like rape and health issues to either party then sure or severe developmental disorders.

Guess I'm too invested into wanting to save lives. My view going in university in the medical field is that if someone (ignoring stupid senabtics) doesn't make it, I didn't do my job right.

>>110402025

>Hey guys I'm an elite intellectual liberal that cares about diversity and little green things and did you also know that babies are the same as cancer?

>>110379665

>Do I need to start reevaluating my life?

Yes, you're debating politics on Facebook.

>>110403272
That's a very modern question - abortion is ancient and has been universally rejected except since the 60s in the West and China. Why?

mmm, you're not wrong, but you're arguing the wrong points
even if it is self-evident that you're right they will use every bone in their body to fight you, they won't attack your arguments, rather they'll go after the definitions of the words you use and compare you and your arguments to non-related things until the conversation derails, this is why the "fetus" route is a really shitty one to go down because it enables them to attack you endlessly over language and definitions, you can't use rhetoric with liberals, you have to use dialectic, these people aren't arguing in good faith

the abortion debate is actually a really easy win, because there are no rational reason for abortion to be a thing, that's where you're wrong, you're arguing IF abortion, when you should be arguing WHY abortion

wanna shut the debate down? just give them

*semantics

>>110403645
Youtube actually.

>>110379665
Yes you are and yes you do.

>>110403272
>Personhood is the only thing between abortion and murder
Not really. Like I said, is there any actual difference between ending a life and stopping it from being created? The end result is the same. The point is that the fertilized egg WILL become a human without outside intervention, it's a process that starts at conception. The whole idea that people argue about, that you need to pick a specific point where the fetus becomes a person completely misses the forest for the trees. The embryo WILL become a human, who cares about exactly what point it occurs? It's irrelevant. By intervening in the process you are essentially ending a life.

sex exists for reproduction, that is literally why evolution made it feel good, so you'll reproduce more, technically you shouldn't be having sex if you're not trying to have a child but, now, since human beings are degenerate fucking animals who lack self-restraint we've created products so that you can actually have SEX for FUN and NOT GET PREGNANT, imagine that, you can treat it as a leisure activity, thousands of contraceptives like condoms and pills that guarantee you not to get pregnant after you do the thing that's supposed to make you pregnant, now if that's not enough for you, 99,9% safety from pregnancy, you can actually CASTRATE yourself, get your tubes tied, you can have all the degenerate pointless sex you want forever worry free.
now despite this, despite all these failsafe methods of avoiding pregnancy, there are people who want to have the option to legally KILL their own OFFSPRING after having had unprotected sex and becoming pregnant, think about that for a moment, they want to end a human life, not only that, the nearest and closest and most innocent human life, simply for the sake of convenience

don't try to tell me that "hurr the contraceptives didn't work", fuck you, yes they did, 99% of abortions are had by people who simply did not
use, and don't try to go "durr what about rape", the countries in which abortion is legal do not have a problems with rape, 99% of abortions are the result of consensual sex, you know this, the fucking offchance of an exception does not warrant baby murder being legal, if there is any form of hell in the afterlife you are surely going there you hedonist.

>>110403103
What the actual fuck are you talking about.
Body autonomy is the protection from people using your body without your consent.
How the fuck is the mother using the baby's body. It's a one-way arrangement.
If we came across the scene after the sister had drugged you and started siphoning your blood into their body, you wouldn't say "without intervention the sister is likely to live". BA has already been violated.

2/10 strawman got me rustled.

>>110403431
Sperm do not naturally grow into human life without outside intervention. Fertilized eggs do. Easy argument to dismiss. Once the egg is fertilized it starts a process which if halted by outside intervention is ending a life.

>>110403773
Ending a life does not necessarily mean murder.

Also you literally just said what I said with different terminology. If you want abortion to be equal to murder you have to make it law that the child is considered a person at conception.

>undifferentiated clump of cells is literally a human being and killing it is murder
So scraping your knee and killing clumps of human cells is murder, eh?
The constant mass-apoptosis going on when your cells are aging is an all out suicide!

>>110402948
"inevitably"
>what's a miscarriage
>what are all the restrictions on pregnant women, including increased calorie intake and other nutrients the fetus needs and so triggers the woman into craving.
Nope, no changes on behalf of a woman to accommodate the unwanted invader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior-altering_parasites_and_parasitoids
http://www.livescience.com/50877-regnancy-body-changes.html

>>110404057
I know anon. So should they, the fact they claim not to always makes me think I'm just arguing with a purposely deceptive cunt.

>>110402373
My wife and I enjoy sex while not wanting any more children. If she has her tubes tied and we wear a condom there is a 0.0001% chance that we might conceive. If we have sex weekly, there would be a 2.5% chance of us having a kid in 5 years. That is a HUGE fucking chance for people who are using two forms of protection.

People fucking without protection and scrapping the babies out later are definitely in the wrong morally, but if they are already a moral why should they care? Oh because fucking and murder are wrong, well define murder and define with it applies to fetus', because without those definitions they are still within their rights by law, albeit they are morally wrong.

>>110403869
Makes me wonder why people want to get rid of contraceptives.

Also good luck getting people to stop fucking.

>>110404384

The difference between a t.gondii and a foetus is that only one of them has the potential to become a living human being in 9 months, and it's a particularly massive difference.

>>110379665
This reads a like a d-grade neckbeard arguing atheism on /b/. Just stop.

>>110404384
>Equating human life with a parasite
Fucking disgusting. This is why your argument falls flat, no moral person will support you once you start saying human life is equivalent to that of a tape worm.

>>110379665
You're absolutely retarded. The reason I know this is because you try to get answers from /pol/. This place is just a cesspool echochamber image board for degenerate neets with mental disorders and a deeply profound combination of delusion and stupidity.

>>110404384

>what's a miscarriage

Shit who cares that I murdered that dude, he could have been hit by a bus anyway.

>>110404442
cut off your dick and just don't have sex, you know the thing that is meant for procreation.

Its not my fault you normies cant stop fucking each other, nor is it the fault of the kid you'll eventually have when you do.

It is your fault. Not the kids. And yet you fine with killing the kid because our protections are shit.

>>110404780
Human life has no inherent value, if it did there wouldn't be such a huge divide in what justifies killing people.

>>110382625
It depends on where you draw the line. Mine is when the spinal column fuses, and it's capable of feeling pain.

I haven't dug too deeply to figure if they know when the brain starts to function, because that would be another line for me. Pre-brain, it's just tissue, with the possibility of life. Post brain - it's a human.

>>110404602
I'm not telling people to stop fucking
fucking is good
but it is, in the long run, meant to produce a child
and if you kill your child because it's not convenient for you, you're really no better than a rodent or a lizard that eats it's spawn
and in addition you're spitting in the face of god, or taking a shit on mother nature if you're an atheist

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>>110403869
ah, the naturalist argument.
>"the natural purpose of sex is reproduction only"
>"humans are degenerate[unnatural] for using sex for any other purpose"
mfw plenty of other animals fuck around for pleasure or social reasons, especially other primates
mfw all technology in unnatural, including the computer you're using
mfw you reduce human existence to the level of a virus, consume and reproduce.

>>110404935

If liberals truly believed this we wouldn't have all the REEEING about prog stacks and trying to make the US secure from terrorist attacks by banning certain countries of origins.

>>110383060
this

But to be clear, such women are possessed by Satan's power. They are to be pitied and prayed for more than anything else.

>>110405076
You're implying that the people in this situation have a moral compass in this situation. Personally I think what they're doing is fucked up but it has no effect on me or anyone around me so I couldn't care less. I have no right to impede in their personal affairs as they have no right to mine.

>>110405107
I don't think technology is unnatural. It uses resources we got from the planet and nature.

Honestly I believe we're just like robots, just made of organs and cells instead of wires and electricity.

I think robots can be alive. You may think thats stupid but I really believe that.

>>110379665
>that cancer eating you alive is human
Yeah. It's actually a part of you though.
A fetus is another being.
I have no problem with stopping the pregnancy very early but upon taking form it becomes another entity.

>>110405284
No inherent value=/= people don't give other people value

>implying conservatives aren't against the ban
They are as well.

>>110405107
>mfw plenty of other animals fuck around for pleasure or social reasons,
yes, fucking for pleasure is a thing, and it's perfectly allowed too, as long as you know what it entails
>mfw all technology in unnatural, including the computer you're using
>mfw you reduce human existence to the level of a virus, consume and reproduce.
if I'm allowed to quite myself
>even if it is self-evident that you're right they will use every bone in their body to fight you, they won't attack your arguments, rather they'll go after the definitions of the words you use and compare you and your arguments to non-related things until the conversation derails

just because fucking feels good doesn't mean you get to kill your kid for the sake of convenience

>>110404780
oh no, emotions are attacking factual similarities in resource consumption caused by a foreign living thing inside a body.

If the mother valued the fetus they wouldn't be trying to abort it, would they?

>>110404935
Also this.

>>110403572
>Hey guys I'm a huckleberry that hates anything not anglo-saxion and think that women should fertilize every single egg from the onset of puberty otherwise they are murdering whores who practice sex for reasons other than procreation!

Honestly, I'm pretty racist, voted for Trump and married a red-pilled beauty who had to go through two abortions (D&Es) because of complications with the pregnancies.

>>110405446
a perfect example of my point
in an organic environment the conversation would be derailed by now, another "victory" for the abortionist

>>110404885
not the point I was making
post I quoted said birth is inevitable
not all miscarriages are intentionally induced.

Fertilization is not the last step in creating a human, it's the first one.
JFC why is this not obvious.

>>110379665
Lmao as soon as he ran out of points to give he pulled out the standard liberal insult YOURR EAVILE OMG YU WUNT WOMEN UNDER YOR BOOOT

>>110405576
>I'm going to misuse words and appeal to emotion
>If anyone tries to correct my misuse of words, I'll claim that they're changing the subject.

The exact reason I started posting in this thread with the JJT argument is because it doesn't matter if you think a zygote or a fetus is a human or not. Humans aren't entitled to use other humans bodies to stay alive without consent.

Aborted 'babies' are by definition unwanted, you're going to put a single woman on the hook for 18 years and 9 months because the pill was only 99% effective and have the gall to lecture anyone on compassion?

>>110390635
I don't believe in Christianity and I think abortion is a crime, except in cases of rape and incest. Nice strawman though.

>>110383060
What do you know about Satan...

Is hell real?

>>110406833
Not him, and that's fair. I just don't believe this is something that you can or should force other people to accept.

>>110379665
You are not wrong. I was pro-choice until a couple of years ago and you are not wrong. That person needs to re-evaluate their life. Let's construct an appropriate analogy:

You are a person that exists, thinks, feels, and one night you made a bad decision. Doesn't matter what decision, only the outcome. You wake up in the hospital and there is a man physically connected to you at the wrist. His wrist is fused to the back of your forearm. Huge pain in the ass. Now, you can get out of your bed and that man will follow you around, but continue to be a hindrance physically and socially. The doctors tell you that in 9 months this non-talking vegetable will detach naturally and you can both go about your lives. However, there is another option. You can have him separated but he will die. Does he think? Nobody knows. Does he feel? Nobody knows. So there's your choice. You only know that it is alive. Cut off what may ultimately be just a hunk of flesh or allow this person to awaken in 9 months. You gonna kill this man because "IT'S MY BODY MY CHOICE!"?

Pro-choice is being okay with murder. If I told you that I would give every Muslim woman who got an abortion 10k and millions went out and did it, then I paid them 10k, how would that make liberals feel? Would they be OK with my subsidizing the murder of thousands of Muslim children?

There is a very small chance that abortion is NOT murder. There is a very good chance that abortion IS murder. I think our founding fathers said that it was better 99 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be imprisoned. Out of 100 abortions, would even one of them have a happy life?

>>110407080
woman who had an abortion should go to jail. If youa re so desperate to kill a human, that you go to a shady heroic adict that gives you some pills or performs a shady operation; you not only deserve the internal bleeding, but to go to jail if you survive. then, violation and icest is another talk...
>>110379665

>>110407080
Nobody has a right to use somebody else as life support. Life is very much a privilege, not a right.

>>110379665
I didn't read your side of the argument, but she never once made a coherent or valid argument and the fact that she restorted to ad hominems at the end means you either won or are retarded enough that she got frustrated. Most likely the former, considering she was regurgitating Planned Parenthood's talking points with no critical thought.

>>110407080
>Cut off what may ultimately be just a hunk of flesh or allow this person to awaken in 9 months, and then pay for all of their expenses for the next 18 years. You gonna kill this man because "IT'S MY BODY MY CHOICE!"?

IFTFY, since we're arguing emotion, at least make a more believable context.

Also don't forget the part where there's a chance the thing attached to you might kill you as it detaches, and that you'll have to eat more food than normal to keep it and yourself alive, or else it will siphon off your body.

Attached growth, life-changing financial burden, might kill you, will decrease quality of life while it's attached.

Sounds a lot like cancer.

>>110386368
I've had two girlfriends have miscarriages. It was heartbreaking and I didn't want kids, nor did they. We were all pro-choice at the time. It still hurt. A lot.

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>>110406644
literally what makes you think I'm arguing from a place of compassion
I'm simply pointing out how revolting the action is, killing your own spawn
it's something that sounds like it's straight out of the old testament
abortionists, women who have abortions, the people who support it, you, are disgusting, and should be executed
their children are probably better off dead too, the DNA of someone who would do such a thing, it's not something I want to live in a society with

>>110379665
I consider myself reflexively pro-life so I'm probably not the most unbiased voice here, but no, red is a fucking moron. If I can admit that it's hard (if not impossible) to draw the line between human-like and actually human, then so can she. And regardless of where I stand, comparing a fetus, which can arguably feel and react to outer stimuli, to a cancerous growth just goes to show that her argument is retarded.

>>110407080
>Pro-choice is being okay with murder.
No, it isn't. It's being okay with homicide. Not the same thing. Sometimes homicide is literally the more moral thing to do, and in such cases it is not murder.
>war
>self-defense
>aborting babies that would grow up to be niggers or liberals

>>110403106
Yeah, kinda this. I'm cool with abortion in the case of rape, incest, or a severely retarded and unhealthy child. Outside of that, if you are so selfish that you would risk death just to not give life to another person that you could always give up for adoption, then maybe you deserve to die.

>>110408019
There really are snowflakes on every side of the spectrum.

>>110402572
If you met me IRL you wouldn't say that to my face, I am 200 cm and can bench press your dad with one hand.

>>110408408
>give up for adoption
Do you have any idea what kind of horror you would subject your kid to? How about getting raped up the ass? How about having a "home" that's virtually a prison until you get adopted by someone that might rape you up the ass some more? Aborting is less evil than giving up for adoption.

Seriously, fuck adoption. And fuck anyone whose mind is so warped they are willing to cuck themselves via caring for a kid that isn't theirs.

>>110408019
If you're convinced that a zygote is a human then there's no debate to have. If you don't agree with the principle of body autonomy, well, it explains your bloodthirst. I look forward to stealing all your blood.

But if you're going to kill, or advocate the death of everyone who disagrees with you, I don't see how you expect to live in a civilized society.

>>110408408
>Adoption
Oh look another child that is likely to be treated poorly. Develop unstable mental issues from no parenting, and being another leech on state funding. I seriously wonder if "pro-lifers" actually cry wondering about all the aborted babies since mankinds existence.

>>110408762
That's an entirely different issue and the system needs to be changed.

>>110408715
This.
Loving parents who can't conceive are fucking rare. CPS is fucked, orphanages are fucked, foster care is usually fucked.

>>110408894
>Advocating for adoption under conditions that could be but are currently not.

Either really optimistic, or naive.

>>110409200
>humans are now pieces of steak
No wonder libs are always fat cunts.

>>110409200
that's not a very good argument for abortion.

>>110409870
Woosh

I don't give a fuck what other people want to do as long as they pay for it.
Degenerates are going to be degenerates, and we also have cases like rape.

The only thing that bothers me is that some try to pretend they're not killing a baby. I feel like acceptance of this fact would go a long way towards making life decisions that don't end in an abortion clinic.

>>110409200
See, even the shitty food analogy at least recognizes that the raw steak was going to be cooked.

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>>110409729
>t. Redneck Conservative

>>110410074
What country do you come from where chinks now count as rednecks

>>110409994
Tell me more about how this effects you personally. :^)

>>110409200
>Doesn't matter how its cooked no one ordered it
>Ok no worries, Ill just throw this raw steak out because no one ordered it.

Once artificial wombs come along this guilt free type of argument is going to fall down and people will have to accept the moral choice that is killing a baby.

FWIW I'm pro choice but you live with the choice of killing your offspring and if you've had multiple abortions because being pregnant would be such an inconvenience well maybe you're a kid killing monster.

>>110410320
But I said it didn't?
It just feels bad man.
There are many things in life to feel bad about.

>>110410151
SingaPOOR, huheue

Post your hands ching chang. Also is your country a cool place to visit ^^?

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>>110388415
I agree with point 3 let's kill everyone that is not happy.

Fuck yeah

>>110379665
Abortion should remain illegal until artificial wombs become developed and then the embryo should be removed alive from the woman and grown to full in the artificial womb

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>>110410607
fake russia pls

you don't have the money to visit my country

>>110379665
how I would attack it from, is personal responsibility. you had fifty other options to not get pregnant, pills, condoms, not having fucking sex. people need to take responsibility for their actions, and not force other people to pay for it.

>>110409994
I'm going to try to explain what this sounds like to someone that doesn't agree.

First-trimester abortion is a more expensive form of birth control. Someone calling it baby-killing is like saying that wearing a condom is baby killing, because instead of letting the sperm go through the cervix and fusing with the egg, you hold it in a plastic sack and throw it away while all the sperm slowly swim to exhaustion and die. Fertilization is an arbitrary middle point, masquerading as the starting point because souls or some shit, idk. The process starts with gamete production in the sex cells and ends at viability when the baby can live on its own.

>>110410714
you will make a fine hannibal lector.

>>110410764
:C i was just playing. Well i would be visiting you on my way of visiting my relatives in Australia so it would not cost me much.

You didnt answer my question you big meanie poo. ALSO WHITE AS FUCK, Whiter than 60% of America

>>110381711
My biggest problem IS late term abortions though especially because I know personally people who had to have a operation to remove the baby premature and that baby was alive and is now 8 years old. At that late stage there is absolutely no question that it's murder to kill the fetus and that it instead should be treated as a premature birth and then put up for adoption

>>110410562
I have more important things to be concerned about than worrying about what women I have no affiliation to do with their bodies.

>>110410874
really? damn, if not for my chinky eyes and fat cheeks i'd probably pass off for an amerifat
>tfw so close to aryan but not close enough
a-a-at least hitler said i was honorary, r-right?

>>110410784
I don't get this "force other people to pay for it". Abortions are not funded with tax money outside of very strict circumstances by the Hyde amendment.

>>110411084
they are if planned parentgood recives funding from the government.>>110411084

>>110410980
>honorary

Yes honorary. Sieg heil mein guter kamerad!


Is Singapoor a "Multicultural" place or is it a homogenous country? How tall are you?

>>110399843
So essentially, every woman has schrodingers baby inside them? They are both human and not human, only because of the way in which they are disposed...?

>>110410759
No, see, this issue is going to go away when we have something like vasagel. Long term, reversible birth control without hormonal side effects for stupid cheap. Get treated as soon as you hit puberty, Keep it maintained until you want a fucking kid, and then reverse it. Put it back when you have the number of kids you want. No more unplanned pregnancies.

>>110379665
S.L.E.D. argument. No christian arguments involved.

>>110411192
Unless you can provide proof PP is using tax funds on abortions outside of what they're legally allowed to allocate your claims are unsubstantiated.

>>110388415
>my body is mine alone nobody can tell me what to do with it

I'd like to add though this is the only time they use this. every other time it's basically "your body is owned by the state"

Truth is in a civilized society no we do not 100% own our own bodies and decide completely what to do with them we have laws. If we didn't have laws and people had 100% control over their bodies I would have gunned down a lot of these screeching retards and robbed a few banks

>>110379665
Child sacrifice must be defeated. No more babies for Moloch!.....Leviticus 20:2: "Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones."

>>110411465
TIL autonomy means I get to do what ever I want to things that do not belong to me.

>>110411202
it's """"multiculti"""" but all the immigrants are lowerclass blue collar construction workers (except for the white ones) and most of the pajeets and ahmeds are fine.

don't remember desu, last time i checked i was 1.76m. considered tall for asian standards but still pretty manlet by white standards

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>>110388415
>>110410714

>>110379665

you encountered a cunt, you should have treated her like one

>>110411422
let me put it this way, if they recive any federal funding, or state funding, some part will be used for abortions, whether it is paying people to do it, tools, building space, electricity, some part of the money is being used to aide in it.

>>110411417
you can use SLED to say that a sperm or an egg is human. Fertilization is a necessary but not sufficient step for creating a human.

>>110411606
But that's basically what they think it means. Pretty sure that your kid is not your property

>>110411622
190 cm. You are average by white standards or slightly below average.

The average American male is actually shorter than you.

What part of singapore are you from?

>>110411465
statist libs are not the only pro-choice demographic.

>>110379665
Eh, I think it's just a very subjective topic with no right or wrong perspective irregardless of your political or religious leanings.

I'm an atheist, so I don't care about abortion from a spiritual perspective, but still I feel there's something inherently wrong about flushing a fetus down the toilet. I mean, I'm not that invested in the subject, I don't care that much as a man, but if you put a gun to my head and asked me to tell you how I truly feel about it I would definitely be pro-life just because I feel that a developing human is still at least partially human, and that the woman made the choice to become impregnated (she could have avoided through birth control, condoms, abstinence, etc.) and so she should have to face those consequences. I'm in a relationship and I've been with a few women in my life, but I'm not a fan of inconsequential sex or just a very sleazy sort of "sleep with a different person every day of the year" kind of thing, I think sex is a luxury and not a right. We're mammals but we also have a conscious mind and restraint and when I see a woman acting like "a bitch in heat" it kind of makes me sick. Control yourself for fuck sake, or live with the consequences.

>>110411808
singapore is too small to have parts but i'm from the bukit timah area aka the rich-white-expat area, since my dad has a high level job in the (((banking industry)))

>>110411714
1. You're implying that tools that are used for abortions are used exclusively for abortions.
2. You're also implying that donation funding doesn't get used for abortion related equipment, or that out of pocket fees aren't inflated to cover the cost either.

>>110411782
TIL a fetus is autonomous

>>110382815
No, this time, the leaf is right

Who the fuck argues on youtube!?

Hugh mungus is stupid af

>>110411591
No violence. I'm just calling it like it is.....Jeremiah 32:35: "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

>>110411957
if they aide in it, I think it is stupid and should rely on their own funding, I don't want any money from the government going to abortion clinics. people need to learn from their mistakes and take responsibility.


I'm sure the get donations, but they also get funding from the state, that doesnt change any thing.

>>110409034

>tfw adopted by loving, upper middle class parents and raised in a stable environment

being a military bastard could have been worse

>>110412546
I don't want my tax money going toward weapons that kill children in foreign countries, but I don't have that privilege. At least there's a law that limits the use of federal funding to pay for abortions. Be happy about that.

>>110412821
:^)

>>110379665
> MUH ABORTION IS BAD
> Browses a board that actively calls for the purge of any non-whites or just about anybody that doesn't agree with their shitty views

You can keep calling yourself a Christian if it makes you feel better lel..

>>110379665
Keep fighting the good fight anon. Your fb friends sound like they don't have an ounce of logic between them. If that was me debating those mongs i would've just started reverse shitposting them.

>>110379665
>basing an entire set of beliefs on religion
>being surprised when said set of beliefs crumbles like a house of cards at the faintest whiff of rationality
shiggydidiggydoobeedodap

>>110410918
You'll find very few rational people disagreeing with you there
Doesnt mean Trump is right and abortions should be made illegal across the board

>>110382625
>>110402025
btw THIS kind of discussion is good.
What people that are outraged are saying and what people on the right need to understand is that they dont just want to be able to abort everything whenever, they dont want an athoritarian dictator in the making to preclude to every do anything about it in any stage or case

>>110379665
tell red guy cancer cells don't have the potential pass on your genes and experiences. And he just compared carrying a baby to cancer.