With the advent of 5-axis stabilization in conjunction with OIS,

>still no dof
>still worse noise performance
>still oversized lenses, considering the system


who fucking cares? just take pictures and stop letting other peoples cameras make you insecure

>>3127352
Its still just mirrorless. If you want something to compete with the autofocus speed of a rebel you need an a9. Everything else falls short unless you're a shill. There's no reason not to go m43 since they have the better image quality, lenses, and video vs apsc sonys. Just buy whatever you need and use it to take photos. There is no perfect camera.

File: 36139918002_bccd76d34c_z_d[1].jpg (70KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3127355
You can get pretty good shallow dof depending on the lens. Also lenses like the panasonic 20mm f1.7 and the olympus 45mm f1.8 are tiny as fuck

>>3127352
Stabilization doesn't make moving objects stand still, dipshit.

>overpriced lenses
>basically everything bad about a Sony, but none of the redeeming features

The Panasonic GM5 and the GHwhatever for videofags are pretty much the only M4/3cameras worth a shit.

>>3127366
>gh5 is ok
If you're desire is to do boring as fuck reportage, sure, it's fucking terrible for art/cine.

>>3127352
The A6500 has all that.

>>3127355
Noise performance doesn't really come into play, considering you never have to go above 600-800 anyways.

Whereas an unstabilized APS-C body will have to bump up the ISO.

>>3127352
>finally caught up to APS-C?
You mean years ago? Then yes.

>>3127366
>Stabilization doesn't make moving objects stand still, dipshit.
Underrated post

>>3127384
>Noise performance doesn't really come into play, considering you never have to go above 600-800 anyways.

pretty low effort bait

>>3127371
why is it terrible

>>3127352
>The only competitor I see right now is the a6500, but that's way above most people's budget.

But it is cheaper than the 5-axis stabilized m43 body?

Plus there is no reason you can't apply the sensor stabilization to an asp-c or even fullframe sensor.

File: 4ge0ohirvmdz.jpg (303KB, 4895x2083px) Image search: [Google]

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This was taken with
>X-T10, 23mm at 1.4, 1/55, ISO 400
As you can see, the ISO is low, and this was done on an APS-C body without IBIS.

IBIS is just a gimmick. I don't know how marketing from M43 has gotten so good that it's convinced people that they NEED IBIS to take low-light photos while keeping ISOs low.

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>>3127355
>relying on the DoF-Crutch
Use lighting, angle, framing and the plethora of other methods to isolate your subject, retard.

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>>3127383
Sony still doesn't know how to make usable cameras. They JUST figured out how to add a Mic-Jack and a touchscreen, and the latter doesn't even work in menus, which they also don't know how to design.
Unless Sony realizes that they need to cram in more features, like Timelapse mode and good ergonomics, they will always have Panasonic and Olympus at their heels.
And Canon needs to let go of their retarded price-bracketing-based design. Make a camera for travel, make one for compactness, make one with more video-features, etc.

>>3127400
Tiny sensor = bad low light, bad colour accuracy, bad dynamic range, less sharpness, less subject isolation.

It's a tool for a job, that job is not cine, the 5dii and a7s were used in hollywood productions where a full size cine cam was unsuitable. Not a baby cam.

>>3127414
>>3127412

>arbitrarily limit yourself because I'm poor.

Lol, no.

>>3127416
Sony has great ergo and timelapse modes.

>>3127418
>IBIS is a gimmick
except for anyone who wants to do video too, or adapting old lenses that aren't as bright.
The thing here is: MFT is selling to another crowd than dihard pixelpeepers. Different aspects of a camera are differently important to different people. And /p/ is mostly populated by datasheet-wanking shut-ins.
Just look at Pentax. They show up nowhere in any big comparisons or even on showfloors at the average consumer electronics store, yet sell, because they sell to a specific crowd

>>3127419
>Sony has great ergo and timelapse modes.
which you had to pay for on the a7-line until very recently, welcome to sony. Watching Sony implement features is like watching a slow kid figure out 2nd grade mathematics.
>It's a tool for a job, that job is not cine, the 5dii and a7s were used in hollywood productions where a full size cine cam was unsuitable
I want you to walk up to an Olympus or Panasonic user in the street or in the store and say that. I really want you to do that. Because that's how big companies are making money. /p/ and other diehard online forums are such a tiny fraction of the market, you can't imagine how insignificant you are
Also, We're talking abotu APS-C and MFT here, not FF. Get your talking points right.

It amazes me how dumb people on /p/ have become. Here's a simple truth I want you to repeat over and over in your head:

A camera is more than its sensor.

Sony might have better IQ than most other producers, but they still don't know how to make decent ergonomics, actually efficient weather sealing, good customer support or a functioning Menu or how to make their batteries last for more than 2 hours of on-and-off shooting
Canon makes this weird scheme where they remove features from higher-priced cameras because they are not "required" for Professionals. their price.bracketing is retarded in general.
Nikon is just a mess.
Fuji is catering to a very specific audience.

Meanwhile, Panasonic and Olympus know exactly the place they're in. and so they try to jam as many features into a specific camera as they can and then look who they can sell it too and how. They play on their strengths. It's called "

There, I have solved your absolute bamboozlement of why a product sells. Because the person who wants to use it matters more than the comparison-tables on the web.

>>3127421
>sony can't into implementing features

What, like ibis, intelligent af, silent shutter, no blackout, 20fps, full sensor readout for video, stacked sensor, focus peaking, bsi, etc.

Or where you talking about the OTHER features that sony doesn't have, like, errr, a mirror?

>you have to pay $6 for the timelapse app

Well that's surely going to break the bank on this $1500 toy.

>ff doesn't count wahhh

Why not? They're all in the same price and size bracket.

>tell a real panalympus user their camera isn't suited for cine

I have no intention of bothering 60 year old dudes on holiday with their new wives. Also, why would an old man taking holiday snaps want the best in cine, he just wants a point and shoot that makes him feel like a big boy.

I don't think I can find any m4/3 with sensor stabilisation at 400 dollars.
That's what the A6000 occasionally costs.

>>3127416
Actually they had touchscreen as one of the first, if not the first, back in 2011 with Nex-5.
They simply turned away from it because they apparently didn't sell well at the time.

>>3127422
>thinks brick and mortar is remotely competitive with online sales

Awwww, cute.

>doesn't realise sony singlehandedly kept camera sales afloat and overtook nikon to become 2nd greatest camera seller.

Awwww, he doesn't understand cipa reports, doubly cute

Bruh, the facts are, sony has the best spec sheet, sony are selling the most products. The only counter argument you can conjure is based around the subjective issue of ergonomics. And lies, a battery easily last 6+ hours of on/off use, the short battery times are with the camera left on.

>>3127421
>which you had to pay for on the a7-line until very recently

Yea, if you are a retard. It was babies first timelapse app and wouldn't ouput the raw.

Free, and considerably better, options exist.

The only problem with IBIS is that is doesn't stabilise your subject

>>3127425
>They simply turned away from it because they apparently didn't sell well at the time.

And because a touchscreen is useless compared to control dials.

>>3127423
Because the thread's main topic is about M43 catching up to APS-C. We're here to talk about whether that's true or not.

What we're not here to talk about is FF being better than both. Because we know it's better than both. You're just preaching to the choir.

Do FF fanatics not bother when it comes to reading the original post's topic before they come in full force with the shilling?

>>3127426
> sony has the best spec sheet, sony are selling the most products
How can you quote from a post and still have read 0% of what's in it.
Never said Brick&Mortar is best. just said people actually handing the camera is more important than zooming in on every second pixel and comparing its sharpness with a contrast-diagram. learn reading comprehension

>And lies, a battery easily last 6+ hours of on/off use
Oh sorry, you're working for sony, I didn't know
Condolences to your family.

Tried myself.
With camera left on constantly, I got maybe a hundred shots in around one hour before the a6300 died.
Sony has some of the tiniest, weakest batteries, you don't wanna tell me Sony cameras (Mirrorless, mind you) manage to do ~1,2x the time on 0,75x the energy! It's simple physics.

>>3127423
>Also, why would an old man taking holiday snaps want the best in cine
Why would anyone want the best in Cine unless they're working in fucking cine?!

>Why not? They're all in the same price and size bracket.
Because the threa dis literally about MFT catching up with APS-C in terms of features that compensate low-light. Nothing else. But you gotta start the fucking Pixelwars all over again.

>>3127414
>Use lighting, angle, framing and the plethora of other methods to isolate your subject, retard.
>blurry
>flat
>back
>picture that says nothing
Who the hell are you calling retarded?

>>3127450
Saying a picturse is "flat" has always struck me the same way film faggots claim that digital lacks "richness", in that I have never seen a comparison of two otherwise identical shots that really portray the difference. It seems to be a purely opinionated thing that only pops up when people discuss systems, not photos.

>>3127450
>discuss technical aspect of photography
>example photo is posted
>"yeah but that's ugly and dumb"
>tripfag
Man, these jokes write themselves.

>>3127352
Moving subjects, specifically people.

There is little point in image stabilization when you're at 35mm or wider and have to shoot at 1/50s to freeze the subject.

>>3127466
You're right about wider lenses.

But what about telephoto ones? Like 100mm?
Don't you think being able to stop down to 1/50s while being able to freeze subjects is pretty cool on such a long lens?

>>3127371
>fucking terrible for art/cine.
maybe if the user himself sucks

>>3127371
>art/cine
Because no other form of video exists, right?
Slap a 12-35mm 2.8 on it and maybe a video-mic and you can make travel-/ reporting-videos in stunningly high quality.
I know quite a few marketing and advertising companies that use it

>>3127477
>while being able to freeze subjects
It can't.

>>3127477
That's not how it work retard.

I bought my Em-5 in-store at B&H because it was small, really stylish looking, great build quality, tons of features (ibis, weather sealed, high-res, lots of custom buttons, touchscreen).

A lot of the other cameras I looked at that day were great and definitely had aspects in their favor. But at the end of the day what sold me was that for a reasonable price, I could get a smaller and more feature-laden camera that also felt and looked very good. To me, losing some sensor size and megapixels was an acceptable tradeoff for all that.

I do like the evf on the higher end Sony models though. DESU I'd rather have that than more megapixels.

>>3127407
>But it is cheaper than the 5-axis stabilized m43 body?
Is that a question? No, it's not. E-P5/M5/M5II/M10II are cheaper.

>>3127425
>I don't think I can find any m4/3 with sensor stabilisation at 400 dollars.

Literally every lolympus since the very first m43 Pen has sensor stabilization.

>>3127477
Most long lenses have optical stabilization anyways.

>>3127414
>dof is a crutch

ok keep teeling yourself that

>>3127426
fuck off moopco

>>3127352
Don't worry Fuji will get IBIS soon

I wish m4/3 users would either kill themselves or go out and take actually fucking photos
It's like gearfagging over a prius

>>3127767
yeah but my prius is cheaper than a tesla and can use gas too.

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Why doesn't everyone just go full frame like my Leica M9?

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>>3127738
I hope so. It'd be a step in the right direction. The only thing stopping me from switching to them is lack is lack of IBIS and their shitty color filter array that fucks everything up.

>>3127777
no one said anything about a tesla you autist
m4/3 are worse than that bridge camera shill

>>3127868
yea but my prius is better than a bridge camera

>>3127738

Their engineers claimed it was impossible to do properly when Sony released theirs.

I think they were just bullshitting though. Their next body is supposed to have it, right?

>>3127767
your fucking delusional m8. no one gearfagged for m43 until you started spamming m43 troll threads several times a week, and even then its kept in the threads YOU started

seriously kill yourself

>>3127927
M43 are the biggest gearfags
U should prolly kill urself too tho

>>3127738
>design image circle so tightly there's no space to move a sensor around
>now they're getting out played on the IS front
top kek fuji

>>3127938

They will probably slap IS on (even though it wont work with anything), charge another grand, and call it a day.

>>3127825
M9 is deprecated
buy M10

>>3127352
>check out my 9 stops of stabilisation
>people are a trail of blur

>>3127361
>a9 to compete with rebel af

lol the a6000 alone shits on every Canon camera when it come to af speed. Fuck off Canicuck.

>>3128016
>lol the a6000 alone shits on every Canon camera when it come to af speed. Fuck off Canicuck.
Post pics from all the pro sports you shot, hobbyist.

>>3128016
lol

a6000 is below rabal-tier

>>3128016
An AF so fast manual focus film lenses out perform it. The only way sony has a comparable autofocus speed is with a dslr in live view. Which, on the off chance you somehow have yet to use a dslr, is at least 10 times slower that using the viewfinder. Nice post moop.

>>3127825
>like my Leica M9
>Camera Model M8 Digital Camera
look out, we got a memester among us

>>3127825
>>3128181

>buying a digital leica
>ever

wut

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>>3128145
If DSLRs are so fast, maybe you can shed some light on this test: https://youtu.be/KX1sfy__7A4?t=1208

Why was the A9 AF 80% faster than the D5 AF?

>>3128181
Damn. Foiled again.
For the record, the sensor size of the M8 is underrated. The length you get with a 35mm is

>>3128006
Ibis is goat for panning shots.

>>3127738
No they won't

>>3127483
>you can do reportage on a gh
Isn't that exactly what the op said, you fucking idiot.

>>3128145
Spot the guy that's only used his canon rabble.