>We sincerely apologize to all those affected by this decision,

is nikon kill?

>>3021152

Is Microsoft kill? Apple? Canon? Sony? Samsung?

It's called business.

Not kill, they just realize this market is over saturated and it's not worth to invest.

I think Nikon should just focus on Professional equipment.

File: Screen Shot 2017-02-13 at 8.48.30 AM.png (1MB, 1496x1482px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1496x1482px

>>3021151
>CANIKON IS THE BEST!! SONY SUCKS ASS! LOL SONY FAGS!

How can nikon even compete?

smart move desu

>>3021160
When mirrorless achieve the same AF performance as a DSLR it will be the final blow

surprised they kept pushing compacts the way they did, dl and nikon 1 seemed like very poor concepts from the start
I don't quite understand how a company can be so oblivious to the market

>>3021169
I don't understand this idea. Without trolling, can you explain what you mean?

The sony a7r2 has some of the fastest autofocus, 399 af hybrid af points, it can automatically focus on eyes, and has facial hierarchy recognition. What am I missing in terms of advantages that DSLRs have?

And please, no sony bashing. I just haven't seen how the DSLRs have the upper hand vs mirrorless

>>3021185
evf lag? I think battery life is the biggest deal, although maybe IS is still worse for sony.

>>3021187
Evf lag meaning what exactly? Like the screen is a few milliseconds behind what it's pointing at? Or that the screen blacks out while you're taking photos?

Yeah, the battery life is fucking embarassing compared to full sized cameras, but its not too bad. If you've got a few batteries with you, you can still shoot for a day.

>>3021189
yeah the first thing
I don't know if pro shooters actually notice it, but I can imagine the timing could make a difference in capturing the right moment

>>3021193
Yeah, I can see that. I have the sony a6300, and it can be tough to take action photos at 11fps.

>>3021195
also in terms of the AF the claim some people make is that the sony may look good on paper but the tracking behavior is worse

>>3021151

Should have made it a premium DX sensor compact like the Coolpix A.

Can't imagine paying 1000 after tax for a 1" sesnor camera unless it does something special.

>>3021160
465 million dollar loss just from restructuring in a year.. holy fuk

>>3021200
Yeah, that one's going to hurt. I know im a total sony fanboy, but I think sony has that market locked down for now. I thin mirrorless will be the future (or atleast some mirrorless hybrid) and it'll be tough for canon and nikon to get in there. I think fuji and panasonic will be able to keep their hold as well

>>3021207

It's only the future for marketing victims.

>>3021208
Its almost like you think canon and nikon have introduced anything revolutionary since 2008.

smartphones killed the compacts. They advance so fast theres literally zero need for a """"""high-end""""" compact like DL.

>>3021185
>I don't understand this idea.
not him, tho sony cameras' AF is incredibly slow and unreliable, especially in low light, compared to that of canon cameras.
In moderately low light, like you can clearly see around you but it's a bit dark, the af on the a7r2 I tried that evening simply could not get the focus right using af and the sony/zeiss 55mm, it went bzzzt bzzzt bzzzzt, forward and backward trying to find the right point without managing to
the 5d3 I use could get a person running in focus in a tenth of a second in worse lighting conditions
I like sony cameras a lot but I could not use one to take pictures in a situation where I need af

File: whaaat.png (154KB, 438x269px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 438x269px

I didn't even know they were making a compact series called the DL.

>>3021223

Uh, no. The rx100 series sells very well. It's more like Nikon can't make a good camera with a sensor smaller than aps-c, which is what these cameras should have been anyway.

>>3021209

Hate to break it to you, but smartphones are the only revolution in photography since 2008; everyone now carries a camera around permanently. The camera is often the #1 selling feature of smartphones, and what reviewers focus on the most.

Everything else you could name is simply progress.

>>3021224
That's understandable. I RARELY use af at all. I really like focus peaking, so Im just not familiar with some of the different lighting situations and the af performance

>>3021229
I guess that's more up to what someone might detmerine to be considered progress or revolution. Id say the biggest things for dslrs was the HD video capabilities, and 4k capabilities. And yeah i guess I would classify everything else as progress. But nikon and canon haven't been progressing too much as of late, canons be lagging far behind nikon IMO, which is saying a lot because I have canon cameras, and ditched them because they just weren't doing anything. The last truely great camera Canon made was the 5dmk2, it stayed relevant for such a long period of time. I just think both canon and nikon need to get their shit together and make some real progress, I feel like they're holding back

>>3021228
>rx100 series sells very well
can you back this up with some links? All i heard was as much as its nice it is WAY WAY WAY overpriced.

>>3021152
Nikon will be very hard to kill considering they're part of the Mitsubishi Group and can just beg the other members for cash or a handout in the form of a joint venture.

>>3021232

I agree, sometimes it feels as if they are holding back, or taking baby steps and dragging technology out... but I think that's because we're consumers, and modern consumers are spoiled faggots. Everything has to be updated every year... it's ridiculous.

I think it's up to consumers to change. Yes we all enjoy seeing technology progress and enjoy buying new things, but this isn't the PC industry... your camera shouldn't become obsolete every 2 years.

That said, I'd love shutters to disappear, and eye-tracking AF would be nice.

>>3021237
>your camera shouldn't become obsolete every 2 years.

LOL trust me, I know this all too well. I bought the sony a6300 when it first came out, then 6 months later they announced the a6500. I was fucking pissed.

I'm not saying that everything has to be updated every year, but when sony has had 4k for years in small bodies, granted it's extremely flawed, canon JUST released a camera that can compete, except the body costs $3500, vs $1200 for the a6500 that also has ibis, or $2800 for the a7r2. And once again, I know these are deeply flawed cameras, but the tech is there and available for canon to take advantage of, but they just don't. In all fairness to canon, their excuse is probably that they want to ensure everything works perfectly before they give it to their consumers, because people would lose their shit if canon had a camera that didnt work perfectly. But there is obviously a large protion of the market that's okay with the newest tech, that works, but isn't perfect judging by sonys fairly recent success with their a6xxx series and a7 series.

I honestly wish sony would make larger full frame emount bodies, that can properly cool and have better processing power. I really don't give a shit about the compact bodies at all.

can't wait for my pentax mx with 1" sensor.

>>3021187
>maybe IS is still worse for sony
what. at least Sony provides IBIS for every lens. Sony is really only missing telephotos now, both prime and zoom. Sony still provides OIS on most lenses >80mm or so. Any OIS difference in the lens will be within .5 stops of canikon if there even is any. Add in IBIS and Sony comes out top compared to everything other than M4/3 since there's more room to move the sensor there.

File: rx100.png (25KB, 499x230px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 499x230px

>>3021233

How about 2 of the top of 5 compact cameras being some variant of the rx100?

>>3021265
>Sony is really only missing telephotos now
And wides.

>>3021309

Not to mention that they'll probably start over with a new mount in two years.

File: Screen Shot 2017-02-13 at 12.40.39 PM.png (55KB, 526x724px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 526x724px

>>3021309
it's kinda got some. It's got some wide zooms and some wide primes. Not sure the quality of all of them

>>3021283
what happened with the mk3?

It's embarrassing for them - but I really can't see how they could win with these cameras at this point.

If you can't win - don't play.

I won't poke 'em for this one.

>>3021151
ive honestly never wanted a nikon film camera or digital camera as i am not a fucking sports photographer.. but i would have loved more mirrorless cameras in the game to spur innovation.

>>3021151
Isn't this just a smaller sensored version of an LX100

>>3021185
>Without trolling, can you explain what you mean?
Try shooting a football game with your a6000 and you'll see.

Sony is going to kill the camera market

>>3021327
a6300.

And yeah, i've shot baseball. But I also only have canon lenses, so I just don't shoot sports that much

>>3021329

I could agree with that. And all of these man-bun-sporting chukka-polishing wannabe-junior-ad-exec types who buy into sony's marketing are only hastening the decline.

>>3021321
A sizable chunk probably sold theirs for the M4 because >Sony users

So why can't Nikon or Canon make a proper mirrorless? I don't understand why they put so much focus on the Rebel and D3xxx line, how much do they sell nowadays anyways?

>>3021418
I honestly cannot understand the whole dslr thing at all. Its a digital image you are going to have on a screen why not just look at the screen on the camera to see the image instead of making the camera larger and adding a giant mirror and what not? I get it on film cameras obviously but why do modern digital cameras with excellent screens still have mirrors?

>>3021463
generally screen lag and most importantly battery life. turning off the display and instant preview makes a huge difference.

much dishonour

>>3021249
I don't think Pentax will ever do 1"

Their mirrorless will be K-mount aps-c (not designed by some homo) and/or continuation of the Q line which they keep saying isn't dead, just very low priority.

>>3021470
a slightly larger battery doesn't weight as much and isn't as expensive as a larger camera.

>>3021418
A lot of the autofocus capabilities that canikon have are most software-based. I don't see why it matters if the AF sensors are on the image sensor itself or on a separate module.

In fact, Fuji XT2 is proof of this. Their sports/action AF matches canikon ever bit as good, if not better. And it's all due to upgrade to the AF software and user adjustments to take into account the type of action being captured.

I'm quite certain Nikon could make a mirrorless that can capture action just as well as their DSLRs but choose not to.

why are you people so obsessed with mirrorless cameras?

>>3021496
I'm obsessed with potential and what the future can be like. Camera technology or otherwise.

>>3021498

Yeah... no mirror... imagine the possibilities!

>>3021500
There are a lot more features on DSLRs that require that the mirror be up than there are features that require the mirror to be down.

It really makes you think about the future of digital cameras.

Once they can get rid of the mechanical shutter there'll be a paradigm shift.

>>3021151

But think of all those Key Mission sales!

...fuck

Other people have already said - but development takes time. Nikon probably had something like the Key Mission in dev when action cams were still rolling like hotcakes. Now? Lol well, check GoPro's stock and see how they're doing......

>>3021485

Lag.

Also, you wouldn't need a "slightly" larger battery, as the usage is significantly more.

The way to go should be obvious. The customer demands large sensors, m4/3 may be the smallest size customers even consider to buy with a new camera today.

That should be clear for years now, spending money for the development of the DL series was really a dumb management decision. Cancelling the series is just pushing the emergency brake.

>>3021513
You are not correct they just typically have smaller batteries seemingly compounding the problem. It really should not be in any case. If manufactures took the time to optimize the screens it really wouldn't be a problem.
lag? What is the lag on a modern mirrorless camera? Maybe its important for actual professional sports photographers MAYBE.

>>3021531

The lag is ominpresent, unavoidable, and really jarring to a lot of people, especially those with good technique who shoot with both eyes open. Optical viewfinders might eventually go away, but it'll be a loss when they do.

Sony will buy out Nikon

>>3021418
their lenses are designed for dslr mount
if they introduce mirrorless, they are either going to need to use a new mount or include an adapter for the old f-mount lenses
also sony has already cornered the market. following them is a sucker's game. if canikon really want to stand out they need to introduce a 6x7 camera or something

>>3021684
Sony would just lose money they can't afford to lose. And Nikon fans would just Hate Sony for it and jump ship to Canon or something.

When Electronic Arts purchased a lot of struggling game developers, they later decide to close down the franchises they purchased, because they were unprofitable.
And the fan reactions? EA was awarded the prize of being worst American company several years in a row, because they built up all that hate from all that purchasing and killing.

File: 1347211943153.gif (646KB, 200x153px) Image search: [Google]

646KB, 200x153px

>>3021151
>>3021160
Jesus, what the actual fuck.

All they had to do was releasing the D900.... LAST YEAR.
Take the D810, put in a better sensor. Call it D900. DONE.
And all they needed for the DL series was a simple, basic, affordable RX100 alternative.

HOW HARD COULD IT BE??? Jesus fucking Christ.

How hard could it be to just do those two basic moves.

>>3021496
Yeah I never get this.

Besides video and image preview there's nothing that evf does, but at great drawbacks.

>>3021498
You can't use the term progress to argue for the thing.

>I like x because I like better things!
Better how

Just because we've realized we can give kids hormones of the opposite sex AND the year is a higher number than the year we DIDN'T, doesn't mean it's (((progress))).

>>3021711
Sony is probably cucking them with sensors.

>>3021716
They have their own sensor fabs. They have Samsung, they have a host of other 3rd party options. There is no excuse for that.

File: 1.png (214KB, 550x537px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 550x537px

>>3021711
>>3021716
It's the microchip processor.
http://nikonrumors.com/2016/09/14/nikon-dl-cameras-delayed-because-of-serious-issues-with-the-integrated-circuit-for-image-processing.aspx/
Someone fucked up in the design of the CPU.

>>3021524
>spending money for the development of the DL series was really a dumb management decision
This isn't management issue. They own engineers fucked up and the the management in a bad place.

When the core of your company, the engineers/designers mess up this badly you are in trouble.

>>3021724
>You can't use the term progress to argue for the thing.

Hence the company "restructuring"

Lots of people being made redundant and more checks in place to catch these errors early in the process.

I wonder if this means anything for the Nikon 1 line, or if it'll stay dead. They've got a lens ecosystem that would be sad to throw away.

>>3021727
What they needed to do is fire the ones responsible for the image processor. Being fired for being incompetent is in order and quite alright.

The management who decided to develop the DL series made no mistakes. It was good to make the DL camera, and many people looked forward to them.

>>3021727
also i was quoting some other person but decided not to reply to it, that's why the totally unrelated quoted text

>>3021496
Because I don't want to lug around a big-ass camera when I can get just as good pictures with a camera that's half the size of a DSLR

File: 1202624455624.jpg (91KB, 640x932px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 640x932px

>>3021727
>I wonder if this means anything for the Nikon 1 line, or if it'll stay dead.
Here an idea for Nikon.

They already spent millions of USD on developing 3 excellent Zoom lenses for the DL 18-50, DL 24-85, DL 24-500.

And now they plan on scraping everything and throw those lenses in the garbage can?
Why not convert those superb lenses to the Nikon 1 cameras?

You have two super compact pancakes, with really fast aperture!!!!
And one respectably small zoom with amazing reach! And respectable aperture.

This is EXPENSIVE to develop that, just to trow their designs away.
Meanwhile the Nikon 1 owners are starving for good lens options.
Meanwhile Nikon management decided to clear the table, throw everything in the bin, and give nothing to the Nikon 1 users.

They are flaunting about with their money as if they are worthless resources. No wonder they just lost billions of yen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uyJVCHDlzU

RIB in Beace.

>>3021743
people buy nikon 1?

>nigon 100 years old in 2017
>bankrupt
karma for pearl harbor.

File: SAM_0116-Bearbeitet-1024x683.jpg (125KB, 1024x683px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 1024x683px

>>3021151

>mirrorless approaching dslr levels of performance, only a generation or two until they surpass it
>Sony marketshare a close third, about to surpass Nikon
>Nikon uneven able to compete with Sony in the point and shoot market

Are we going to witness the end of the Canikon era and the rise of the Cany(ok, the name needs some work) era?

File: 1310186393734.jpg (223KB, 725x674px) Image search: [Google]

223KB, 725x674px

>>3021769
>DL is canceled
>I see it as a good sign. Because maybe it would not have been profitable
>we were so excited to interview Nikon at photokina about D820
>we got some action cams instead
This company is in trouble.

>>3021827

Not huge trouble just yet... at least they are doing something.

They aren't making Blockbuster Video type decisions (ignoring reality)

They should have stayed in the pro market

>>3021771
Maybe Nikon 1 would have been alive if Nikon hadn't pissed off all the Nikon 1 customers with the DL series.

And now the DL series is cancelled.
DL customers are pissed.
Nikon 1 customers remains pissed.

What good came from it? Nothing. It's a fucking catastrophe.

The least they could do is maybe try to revive the Nikon 1 market.
They spent MILLIONS on designing those lenses, they need that money back, at least sell them as Nikon 1 lenses or something.

>>3021224
>the af on the a7r2 I tried that evening simply could not get the focus right using af and the sony/zeiss 55mm, it went bzzzt bzzzt bzzzzt, forward and backward trying to find the right point without managing to

Sounds like you used the SEL50F18F(known for terrible AF issues) and not the Zeiss. The Zeiss is silent and lightning quick even in low light.

>>3021463
personally i don't like mirrorless because every time you change lenses your sensor is exposed since theres no mirror to protect it so you build up dust in your sensor a lot quicker which means more maintenance which means more money and if you do it yourself higher risk of fucking up your sensor

>>3021849

Sensor swabs are laughably easy to use.

Sensors are relatively scratch resistant anyway.

>>3021849
Nikon could fix that issue if they introduced a new Full Frame mirrorless mount.

Place a filter thread in front of the sensor. Boom. Problem solved.
- 1 single sized filter thread for your entire platform.
- Protection for sensor.
- You can use fucking regular edge of T-shirt to clean dust off filter glass.

>>3021851
>>3021849
sensors on mirrorless have protection glass in front of them tho

>>3021812
SonyCan? CanSony? Sonon?

Anyhow, at the moment its looking that way. Sony has brought the third viable APS-C / FF system to market.

Canon has GX7, Sony has RX100, both are really popular vlog tools aimed at people who wants an image quality advantage over iphone vloggers.

Nikon is definitely making a mistake by shying away from the challenge. This isn't good for their brand awareness either. Canon knew it had to jump on that wagon, because they're smart, they want to always be in consumer mindshare. Nikon is going the opposite direction and that's really dangerous.

>>3021852
Would probably cause massive amount of reflections

>>3021961
It's objectively the best place to put a threaded filter.

At the front of your lens is where it will catch the most amount of flares and reflections.

Remember when Sega launched a console a year and the market blew up for them? Sony is doing the same, and people are buying that idea of 'mirrorless is better' and 'faster releases is ok to everything'.

Sony is killing the market and giving people shit technology within the name of 'new technology'....

>>3021964
Your video game analogy makes no sense. It's Nikon that killed the DL, it's their engineers who made mistakes when designing the camera.

>Sony is killing the market and giving people shit technology
Watch this: https://youtu.be/O2Np4tD4mQ4?t=198
Nikon is selling the failure gadgets these days.

Makes you wonder how much the DL cameras would be failing if they decided to release them.

>>3021841
nikon 1 customer should just buy the dl 18-50 and the 24-500 than crying muh lenses.

>>3021964
sony killed the dreamcast with ps2.
what are you smoking about?

>>3022063
>nikon 1 customer should just buy the dl 18-50 and the 24-500
They can't. Nikon don't want them to buy either.

DL has dysfunctional image processor, but has really good Zooms.
Nikon 1 has functional image processor, but lacks fast Zooms.

How can someone fuck up this badly? This shit even smells as if Nikon sabotaged itself.

>>3021964

The differencw between cameras and consoles, is that cameras make significant advances every year.

Just compare the a7 and a7ii. The 2 makes the earlier one look like trash.

>>3022113
>cameras make significant advances every year.
only if it's a sony.

>>3022113
>>3022065
>>3022009

fucking millenials

>>3022146

Pretty much. No one else is really updating their lines.

The 3 year old $400 a6000 already beats almost every camera body under $1000.

>>3022070
they were both terrible after mirrorless came out. small sensor compacts and fixed-lens cameras are crazy ideas in a world with cellphones.

>>3022243
not really.
you can make a compact even smaller because less mounting space.
as for the superzooms, some people bring 2 dslr bodies because they want to switch quickly.

>>3021531
Um no. The screen is the main power consumer on a camera, having it on all the time DRASTICALLY decreases battery life. Also it's aweful in outdoor lighting due to glare. Lag is extremely noticeable if you're shooting anything that's moving. I do mostly wildlife and bird photography and live view is a joke. I like to use it to check the exposure in real time since I can't do that with ovf, but apart from that it's useless.

>>3021498
>>3021507
People have been saying that "mirrorless cameras will be the death of dslr's" since 2005. Mirrorless cameras aren't anything new, and in 12 more years they'll still be trying to catch up to dslrs.

>>3022240
If only they had some lenses!

>>3022427
This. On a dslr only the metering system is on when the camera is on. On mirrorless the whole system with processors and shit is rolling constantly.

>>3022428
They will never be able to do so. DSLRs have a separate AF sensor coupled with a lower resolution RGB sensor used for metering. Huge photosites.
Mirrorless has to place the AF sensors between the sensor imaging photosites and use the imaging as the meter. Much much smaller photosites. You can't amplify fewer photons and lower QE without adding loads of noise, mostly amplifying the photonic noise already present in the reading.
Capturing 100x or 1000x more photons during the same reading will always deliver more accurate reading and better sensitivity in low light, it is a fact. This is the reason why Sony didn't abandon the SLT line completely with the A99II, it has a separate AF sensor with much more accurate reading. It's a shame most "reviewers" are confused and compare it to the A7RII video features while it is clearly aimed at the primarily stills photographers.
And this is the same reason why DSLRs won't die out, most people want stills and never touch the video modes.