is leica the apple of cameras? are they worth anywhere near what

>>3013123
A M10 without an lcd would literally be the perfect camera and I'd give and arm and a leg for one with a 50 apo.

But to answer the question, no. A digital leica is not worth its price.

I sold all my digital gear to buy a film Leica and one lens. It was the best gear decision I've ever made.

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I was gonna make a Leica thread so I'll just jump on this one

I was planning on buying a Sony A7R II or a Fuji X-Pro2

My gf decided she wants a Leica Q for what I'm guess is just because she thinks it's cool. She says if I get the Leica she'll split the price halfway with me.

The thing is, even half of the Leica's price is more than the other camera's with a kit. Is it worth it?

Thanks

>>3013139
Stop being a cuck. Say no.

>>3013123
>Buying a digital Leica
>ever

>are they worth anywhere near what they're priced at?
Film leicas, 2nd hand. Sure. Maybe a "bit" expensive but mostly fair and in the ballpark with most other rangefinders.

Digital?
Nope. They're priced that way solely because they're the only rangefinder left in town. Their cameras are okay and functional but the price is mostly due to brand name and the freedom of charging whatever the fuck you want to because your product is unique.
If Epson/Voigtlander were still out there making cameras, If glorious soviet workmanship went digital. If the chinks took over that role. If Fuji bothered to make a non medium format film rangefinder. Sure, they'd be forced to bring the price down.

Until then a digital Leica is only worth how much you personally value it. If you don't enjoy shooting anything that isn't a rangefinder, you have no other options.

>>3013123
>is leica the apple of cameras

No. In fact, they couldn't be more different.
Apple mass-produces their phones in China, prides itself in being cutting edge and is quick to drop technology they deem obsolete.
Leica hand-assembles small numbers of their cameras in Germany, prides itself in being ultra-conservative and is clinging to obsolete technology.

M6 is a great camera and will only cost around 1200.

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>>3013136
Film Leica is crap. I regret buying one. I got one because in my deluded mind I thought: as a photographer I MUST have a Leica! It will make me feel like an oldschool photojournalist.

But it is a waste of money.

My reasoning:

1. The sharpness of the expensive lenses is wasted because at the end of the day it's 24x36mm film. The same film used by compact cameras. You might say that because of the small film size every bit of sharpness you can get counts but you just won't get much resolution out of it anyways. Unless you also buy a professional scanner to extract the full detail of the film.

2. The viewfinder is inaccurate. The framelines are calibrated just to one distance which means that you will often not make full use of the frame and will have to crop an already small film area. The closer your subject the more parallax there is. Ever seen one of those photographs where something in the background aligns with the foreground? Good look doing this with a rangefinder. Oh and last but not least you won't be able to see the true depth of field.

3. (Only applies to anything but the M7) Lack of AE means that you will have to meter ahead or you will not be able to react to spontaneous photo situations.

4. (Personal) Because it's so expensive I am always aware of it and afraid to damage it which makes me a bit insecure and too careful.

Using my cheap $100 SLR is more fun in the end and gets me better photos.

Better invest that money into a medium format camera.

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>>3013191

>>3013123
>is leica the apple of cameras?
You need to be more specific.

>>3013191
Seems like you're just lacking skill-wise.

>>3013181
>Germany
>98% of the parts are being assembled in Portugal. They then ship the almost fully assembled bodies to Wetzlar, Germany where the already complete rangefinder mechanism will be installed. That's it. They install the finder, tighten the screws and tadaa. There's your ((((german)))) Leica.

>>3013198
>>3013200
Why pay a premium to inconvenience yourself using technology which has been outdated for like 50 years already? At least on medium format cameras a rangefinder really saves a lot of size and weight.

>>3013204
Would being fully assembled in Germany improve the quality?

>>3013208
it improves the bling value

>>3013126
They'll make a limited edition eventually, don't worry.

>>3013126
Why would you want to remove a feature?

>>3013204
>98% of the parts are being assembled in Portugal
I need source on that. I used to have a slide projector made in portugal. Nothing wrong with it. That colorplan lens was sharp as fuck.

>>3013207
>inconvenience
It's an inconvenience for you, maybe. Git gud or buy an A6000 and be on your way.

>>3013126
One-armed people can't use rangefinders.

>>3013126
>digital camera without LCD
That's why people shoot film you idiot.

>>3013198
>>3013236
>Your problem is user error. The camera and its immaculately designed and concevied interface are behaving as intended. Get used to it or purchase an inferior product.
Leica confirmed for the apple of cameras

>>3013139
Apparently it suffers from the (Ricoh GR) dust problem.

>>3013275
The camera does exactly what you want it to. If you're quick and know what you're doing, it's an advantage. You'll understand eventually in a few years maybe kind of probably not.

>>3013313
>I'm completely oblivious to what you just posted!
Two can play at that game!

>>3013321
megapickles is a chink, don't bother arguing with him

>>3013347
Why are all tripfags minorities
Is he a tranny too like all the others?

>>3013350
I don't think, I do know that he's a fat asian

Matt Day had a compelling leica argument; You just press the button and it shoots!!

Yeah Matt, as opposed to every other camera brand in history.

Leicas are a waste of time and money. You can't carry it around as some nigger will jack you and your $3000 toy will be lost forever.

>Muh German made meme

As mentioned it's not even made in Germany, if it was it'd be 5 times more expensive.

>>3013406
>You can't carry it around
Just put a fucking tape on the logo. Niggas won't realise it's not a point and shoot snapshit camera.

>>3013494
I think the point is if you get mugged it's gone. I doubt a mugger would recognise a Leica, let alone know it was worth something.

>>3013218
>>3013274
Leica already makes these without LCD screens lol.

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>>3013221
Don't get me wrong- Portuguese people really do know their shit and quality is top-notch, but I find it stupid to label the cameras etc as being manufactured in Germany even though it was Leica Portugal who made them.

There's a video on Youtube where a Leica rep is talking about the assembly.
https://youtu.be/ILn_jNbogHU

It's about the M7, but the process hasn't changed for the digital ones.

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I might be the only person bothered by this but I don't like how they got rid of the mechanical frameline illuminator. Without it the front looks empty and kinda like the Fuji X-Pro.

>>3013515
They brought it back with the new M10.

>>3013516
But they didn't.

>>3013509
Well if the final assembly, adjustment and QC is made in Germany I'm totally fine with that.

Some countries have tighter regulations to put "made in X". For an industrial good be marked as swiss made it has to be at least 60% made there, that includes the materials plus research and development.

>>3013494
Then how do you get that sweet sweet hipster cred senpai? If you've spent $6K on a camera, you sure as shit want a return on investment.

>is leica the apple of cameras?
Depends on how you see apple?

>are they worth anywhere near what they're priced at?
If you are looking at photoquality - no. But they offer something somewhat unique and people want it, so it is understandable why they charge the price.

The Leica M3 is a gorgeous camera. In it's heyday was superior to it's contemporary alternatives in almost every aspect.

As reflex camera designs and lenses improved, Leica's beautiful cameras were slowly crushed by cameras that were more sensible, versatile and offered comparable quality in most regards for a lower price. Nonetheless, Film Leicas are undoubtely wonderful pieces of machinery. Yet time hasn't changed the fact that at the very end of the day, Nikon F3s, Olympus OM1s and Canon equivalents offer better bang for buck, comparable IQ, etc.

Early Digital Leicas (M8,M9 family) get fucking corrosion on their sensors. Compared to the very old M3 they're mechanically crude. Their shutter is loud. Their software and electronics are fidgety and slow. Did I mention they get corrosion on their sensors?

I know little about models after that. At this point they're little more than a fashion accessory, in my opinion. I mean, the Leica subreddit has a rule that says you can't post pictures made with the cameras, just pictures of the cameras. Enough said.

The lens system is great, but it's not like the other manufacturers' lineups are crap, if you get my jest.

>>3013139
If it's not even an M series i wouldn't cuck the shit out of my wallet for it

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This is one of the coolest looking cameras ever made.

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>>3013123
>is leica the apple of cameras?
Pretty much, you pay for the name and the reputation.

But, unlike Apple, their stuff is actually pretty good.

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If Leica is the Apple of cameras then what is the Thinkpad of cameras?

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>>3014745
Pentax.

>Leica M Type 240 used: 3500€
>Leica M9 used: 2500€

What's up with that?

>>3014760
what's wrong with that? M9 is older and worse in every way (unless you're drinking the CCD kool-aid)

>>3014745
God those are some ugly fucking computers. It's like they let 90's era Bill Gates run the design team.

>>3014809
Pleb. The design is great. It's practical.

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>>3014809
that's a 10 year old thinkpad though

>>3014760
I can literally buy a top of the line Fuji, a lens, and still go on holiday to use it.

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>>3014860
>tfw no ff
>tfw no rf

>>3014819
Yep, and the new ones look worse :(

I want my black brickhouse w/ full-row non-island keyboard back :V

>>3013123
Yeah they're pretty much the apple of camera companies. They create an attractive but seemingly underwhelming product that is really light on specs and isn't very versatile but can perform amazingly if they're used the way they're intended

And also way too expensive

>>3014809
design is robust and manly. bet youre an apple cuck.

>>3014745
The Nikon F/F2/F3

>>3014886
Who cares when I can take pictures that matter in an exotic place while you gearcucks wank over pixel count and other irrelevant shit.

>>3017718
> I can take pictures that matter in an exotic place

You can but you don't, seeing as you're posting an assblasted reply to a week old post.

>>3013267
Underrrated post. Bravo

>>3014745
Obviously Pentax. Utilitarian and rugged as fuck.

>>3014745
Pentax

I have a stupid question about Leica, guys: in a range of (for example) 10000 leicas of a specific model, how many are silver and how many black? Do they use a black/silver ratio or it's a 50/50?

>>3018195
Really stupid question, but now i'm curious about it too. Someone can explain this?

>>3018195
>>3018528
I don't think Leica ever releases any official production numbers. You might try your luck on Leica autist sites that keep track of serial numbers.

All the above anons arguments are shit

Roll trips and I'll write an fucking essay on leica vs the rest of the digital cameras bullshit.

I'm going to an art school with a legit photo dept that have 35mm slr to 8x10 and hasselblad digital back so just shut the fuck up if you never tried anything other than your fucking wack ass dslr, wanker

>>3013191

>sharpness

lol

You cant get any Micro-contrast with any other lens but Leica senpai

>>3014760

Because Tigers and Leopards are made in Germany. Anything made from Germany are Quality > Quantity.

If you think a film Leica is a waste of money, please explain your reasoning to me. I owned an M6 for a few years. Bought it for $1200 and when I was done I sold it for $1200. This was almost 8 years ago. They are still going for $1200. Name a single other camera that doesn't lose a cent in value over the course of a decade.

Owning an M6 is like renting the greatest 35mm camera for free for as long as you deem yourself worthy of shooting with one.

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>>3018693
>Name a single other camera that doesn't lose a cent in value over the course of a decade.
Zenit.

When you start with a shit camera, you can still sell it for the same price when you're done. Checkmate leicafags.

>>3018575
I've found how much cameras are made with respective serial number, but nothing about colors.

>>3013139
I have the Q. I fucking love it. It's a silly price tho. But that's what compact fixed lens full frame cameras go for - the RX1R2 is more expensive to buy new here in the UK, and I went for the Leica because it's more responsive, faster device. It's a fucking pleasure to use and as a result I've been shooting a lot more for pleasure (as opposed to solely for cold hard £££s)

It it a wonderful, brilliant, beautiful camera? Yes. Is it worth the money? Probably not.

>>3019134
>taking photos in the UK
>making money
I don't believe you

>>3018693
>Name a single other camera that doesn't lose a cent in value over the course of a decade.
Nikon EM with a 50mm sold brand new for $139 in 1982, I reckon if you were cheeky and had a minter you could get that today.

>>3018693
Hasselblad, for one. They're like the Leica of Medium format

>>3019154

Inflation adjusted?

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Would anyone on /p/ unironically consider a digital leica M?
If money were no object?


Why?
Why not?

>>3017718
>exotic
nice exoticism

>>3020069
Define "money is no object". If I inherited a gorillion dollars, I would buy one with a few crazy expensive lenses just to troll leicafags on the internet. If I had to choose a work camera with my employer paying for it, then anything M-mount would be on the very bottom of my list.

>>3020083
>If I had to choose a work camera with my employer paying for it, then anything M-mount would be on the very bottom of my list.
Is that just because of the general impracticality of a rangefinder and manual focus lenses? Or something else?

>>3020087
Impracticality. Except in some incredibly contrived circumstances, for any job a RF Leica can do, a different camera exists that can do it easier and better.

>>3020069
Yeah I totally would. When it comes to ergonomics/use I prefer my old film cameras to my digital ones. The digital M series seems to come the closest to an old manual focus film experience than most digital cameras. For my needs (sharing with friends, small prints) pretty much any camera would do so I've never been too hung up on specs and DXO and all that and since I edit in Lightroom anyway ergonomics and size are probably my biggest selecting factors. I wouldn't use one exclusively, I do like my autofocus, zoom lens SLR, but I'd even buy that Epson RD-1 thing in a heartbeat even if they did an APS-C version (or something smaller). Digital camera with a vestigial film advance? Frickin cool!

>>3020101
>I'd even buy that Epson RD-1 thing in a heartbeat even if they did an APS-C version
Uh, what? R-D1 had an APS-C sensor.

>Digital camera with a vestigial film advance?
It wasn't just for hipster points, it was used to cock the shutter. I'm not sure how much electricity this saved, but R-D1's battery life was fairly reasonable for its day.

>>3020103
Yeah you're right, it was APS-C. I had it in my head it was some weird crop factor but I must be thinking of the Leica M8 (APS-H from a quick google search).

I'm aware that it cocked the shutter, but I'd still consider it vestigial given it doesn't appear on 99.9% of digital cameras, or even on a lot of the later film cameras.

>>3020103
You better get buying that RD-1 then...

I'm seriously considering dropping 2k on a prstine Leica M9 with 6000 actuations. How much do you guys think an M9 would depreciate in the next 2 years? Aren't they stopping supporting the M9 in 2017? What's the worst that could happen?

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Call me whatever you like for caring about aesthetics but the Leica M has just the perfect small format camera design for me. It's so simple it's almost like a symbol for a camera. All the other cameras have tons of bumps and buttons and wheels. Also adjusting the aperture and turning the focus ring on the Leica lenses feels so satisfying. It's a shame that they fell for the thumb grip meme but it's not that bad.

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>>3020118
I don't even like the aesthetics. It seems like the aesthetics of the early Leicas were just a mistake/limitation, and modern Leicas are what the company really wanted to make.

To me, the M4-2 is the height of the Leica aesthetic.

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>>3020118
>Leica M has just the perfect small format camera design for me. It's so simple it's almost like a symbol for a camera.
That's exactly the kind of kool-aid Leica wants you to drink.

I love the form factor and I used to have an M8 with a Zeiss ZM 35mm giving what I consider my perfect focal length of 46.5mm
I sold it in the end though for what I paid for it. Although it was nice, it wasn't £1500 nice and the shutter sound sounded like it was hollow. Maybe I'll get one another day when I have lots of spare cash.

>>3020069
Nope.

Even right now when I have the excess money to buy one I wouldn't consider it. At the end of the day, it's no M6 and I'm still gonna need to lug batteries around with me everywhere on top of worrying about the electrics in the camera.

>>3014745
Nikon F4s

>>3020069
Of course.
It's a shitload of fun.

Pure fucking joy.

What totally important photos is anyone here taking that the world cares if the Signal to noise ratio is 5% worse or if it takes a quarter second to focus the camera?

Taking photos for virtually everyone here is no different than rubbing your own dick. A diversion. A hobby.

I paid like $5k for an M240 almost 4 years back and I'd get $3,800 this afternoon for it if I wanted.

Who really needs to have a hard-on about someone spending basically $300 a year to have a fun camera?

Fender = Canon
Gibson = Nikon
Ibanez = Fujifilm
BC Rich = GoPro
Martin = Leica
Yamaha = Pentax
First Act = Holga
ESP = Sony

Is this about right?

>>3021333
Fender = Nikon
Gibson = Canon

the rest you got it right lol

>>3021336

My man, fender is definitely canon.

>>3021336
Fender deff Canon.

Sony = Schecter? (Schecter makes parts for other companies, or at least used to)

>>3021345
>>3021338

why?

>>3021362
Nikon premium priced v. Canon. That is my main reason.

>>3021345
Schecter is part of esp, so no

Sony= ESP

>>3021362
Fender and Canon are more appealing to inexperienced consumers because of their brand name and their lower entry price than Gibson and Nikon. They're both also 'late bloomers'. Mexican Strats and Rebels aren't that great, most would even say that Gibson/Epiphone and Nikon cameras in that price range are technically better across the board. But when it comes to the professional tier products like the American Starts and the Highway 1 Strat and the 5D Mark III, that gap in quality becomes much more narrow and you could even say they overtake Gibson/Nikon in a variety of areas. That's when it becomes a matter of personal taste instead of being able to pick a clear winner, you're guarantee a quality product which ever way you choose though.

>>3021333
Who are all those people

>>3021398
We should meet up for a jam

>>3021398
decent electric guitars are all basically the same
the resonance of the body is so unimportant to the sound, all you are buying is some aging baby boomer rock band fantasy

How much do you guys think the M9 will depreciate? It's currently around £2200 in UK for a very good condition one with less than 6k actuations. I'm tempted.

>>3013515
>>3013516
>They brought it back with the new M10.
>>3013518
>But they didn't

yep, still digital frame lines.

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>>3020133
>To me, the M4-2 is the height of the Leica aesthetic.

Yep, fantastic looking camera. Never been a fan of the self timer.

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>>3021362
n o i s e

>>3022061
M9s are dicey a bit. I really worry about sensor failure and the cost of repair at this point.

Might depreciate 100% if you catch my drift.

>>3021333
What is the Fender Jazzmaster of cameras?

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>>3023726
Modern jazzmaster

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>>3023726
Original

>>3021333
Stradivarius = Olympus

>>3023815
Meaning "made good stuff once, dead today"?

>>3021333
Gibsons are the best so why not in that order ?

>>3013123

I just really want their 28mm summilux. I have the 50 APO and love it. Just need wide glass.