https://www.theguardian.com/environ ment/2017/jan/19/bureau-

this can't possibly be good

>>934370
How many of you /out/ists voted for these clowns? You don't have to speak up here but you should write them & voice your displeasure.

I do at least half of my camping on BLM land. I don't care about politics and budget and economy or whatever. So yes, this is pretty bad in my humble opinion

Feels bad, man. Republican environmental policy is astonishingly shortsighted. I miss the days when Democrats that weren't virulently anti-white existed.

>>934370
if you give a shit about nature spaces you cucked yourself voting republican. rationalize how you want, they were clear about their intentions with natural resources.
i don't care how mad you were at obama, you just shit in your own river.

>>934370
Maybe if you'd post an article that wasn't obviously and even offensively biased and loaded with Democrat party rhetoric, I'd give it a read.

Find an objective source and I'll give you my opinion.

>>934370
Awful.

It's why I joined Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. Fighting against the great public land heist

>>934471
Most Democrats aren't anti-white. It's just the squeaky wheel of the party can't shut up and stop screaming about identity politics

Don't worry, when the loggers and frackers have used up every bit of national forest and grassland, you can go camp in Yellowstone sponsored by Pepsi.

Thank you Trumptards!

>>934484
>facts are biased

Kys dumbfuck.

>>934521
uhhh same could, and has, been said about racists and rapists in the republican camp. superiority/supremacy smells like insecurity to me. i've traveled internationally a bit, and there's always some group people put down to justify treating them shitily. the narrower the gap, the nastier the oppressor

>>934539
that entire post didn't refute anything I said.

>>934484
if conservation was your single-issue vote, you'd have gone anything but republican this round

if you didn't want your mother, wife, sister, or daughter to become sexual objects for strangers you'd have also not voted republican this round

>mfw between commodification & objectification these are painfully consistent

>>934540
didn't mean to. i can't speak for others.
i respectfully if energetically disagree with supremacy sentiment, but as long as nobody actively tries to harm or oppress anybody else i could care less what happens within one's own head. the dems aren't saints either.

but this is off topic; i care a lot about the environment we pass on to our kids.

>>934547
republicucks

>>934471
This.
>>934476
>Opening our borders to the entire 3rd world won't fuck up the environment

>>934484
Governor of Wyoming has said that they wouldn't be able to afford any land given to them because the cost of firefighting alone would decimate their budget.

>>934720
http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/wyoming-gov-says-state-doesn-t-have-the-law-money/article_f5aa7c33-8b84-57a9-9711-b5e1f0c04760.amp.html

>>934370
Isn't it technically cronyism to sell it all to mining companies? Pretty retarded if you ask me.

>>934492
Tell me more

>>934484
Sorry m8. I wasn't trying to argue for any political ideology. I just wanted to spark some discussion with folks who share similar interests as I.

>>934558
Lame ass poser, pussy libritards.

Off with thier heads!

God bless King Trump!

>build the wall NOW!

>>934683
>>934683
>Opening our borders to the entire 3rd world won't fuck up the environment

When was the last time you saw a minority out hiking or fishing or hunting? Maybe it's just cause I'm in a really fucking white state, but there are articles in the local paper about how minorities don't even use city parks.

Also, 3rd world refugees are going to be pretty fucking sick of tents and sleeping on the ground.

>>934750
You don't get /out/ that much.

Literally every piece of basura is left by Mexicans.

>mfw Mexico has no Woodsy the Owl
>they prolly ate him

>>934720
That's not nessarily an issue as we have been over protecting forests from fires for a good century now. The first few major fires will be doosies but then we'll have a healthier forest because of it.

>>934540
>that entire post didn't refute anything I said.
no just pointed out the utter hypocrisy in saying it

as much as I can't stand democrats eagerness to spend money the greed of the modern Republican Party is disgusting. Too short sighted and too focused on speculative money making dollars. Selling public land so their friends can pillage my future children's open spaces is revolting. I really hope that the midwestern electorate figures out that they are voting for people who don't care about them soon.
Or maybe the democracts can scale back their national policies and stop trying to legislate morality.


Centrist forward thinking third party when?

>>934729
Not him and not a hunter but check these out

outdooralliance.org
And
protectourpublicland.org

>muh evil republicans!
Dems didn't give a shit about federal land either.
https://www.desmogblog.com/2016/09/02/obama-administration-online-auctions-oil-gas-public-lands

Dreadful. The folks in my community (southwestern Colorado) are livid at GOP plans for western public lands.

Honestly, this is probably the stupidest thing I've seen the GOP do in a while. If even half of this shit goes through then Colorado will become a reliably Democratic state for the next hundred years.

>>934521
is a republican seriously trying to use this argument when the kkk held trump victory rallies?

>>934741
you mean Steward Trump, and King Putin?

>>934754
not who you're replying to, but i live in a mixed (everything) area, and it's the most uneducated/least familiar with the woods that leave trash, regardless of color. it's an education issue not racial.

>>934862
Trump personally and repeatedly disavowed both the KKK and David Duke months ago when the (((media))) first started screeching about the KKK endorsing Trump and

I have yet to see the DNC, Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders disavow groups like BLM or La Raza that encourage racial violence and violence against the police. Bernie Sanders admonishing La Raza about racial division and then going on to talk to them about the need for immigration reform would be like Trump attending a KKK rally and saying that he doesn't agree with lynching niggers but good on them for raising awareness about white genocide.

>>934827
Read that article and it talks about about house Republicans voting to change over to online auctions so environmental activists can't show up and disrupt their money grubbing.

Nice try to anon

>>934908
Trump would have publicly disavowed his own mother if he thought it would get him power. He's obviously racist, he just stopped admitting it when he decided to run for president.

As a tree hugger this pisses me off. Most of our ecosystems are already fucked, these are the last remnants of what used to exist. There will still be places to camp but biodiversity is fucked.

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That's fucked up if you ask me.

>tfw no political party fits you

>>934908
false equivalence. keep cucking yourself.

>>934867
Did I say fucking "Give a Hoot, Don't Pollute" cartoon symbolic education from an early age?

>>935055
cartoons are not education. quit blaming minorities for universal people problems. it just makes you look like an ass

trash in parks is more of a problem of total traffic than any one ethnicity

>>934862
>implying I'm republican
someone already brought this up, read the thread retard

>>934771
Forest fires are allowed to burn and are even encouraged with controlled burns, once they get to a certain size and intensity is when the firefighters step in. It's not the 60's anymore.

>>934729
Here's there mission statement: http://www.backcountryhunters.org/mission_and_values

Basically, BHA wants to maintain America's heritage of hunting and fishing and recognizes that, especially out west, public land is important to ensuring that hunting and fishing continues generation after generation. Their goal is to promote use and management of public land for recreation. I like them more than some other generalist conservationist groups because many are either anti-hunter or distrustful of hunters because they are not adequately educated on the importance that hunting plays in conservation

>>934944
I agree. The natural history of our country is important and public hands help protect it. Without it, all we'll have left is Jellystone Parks and KOAs

>>935074
Not where I live.

It's the Mexicans that throw trash literally out of the window.

>>934370
There's no way that's not absolutely fucking terrible. RIP American wilderness.

Republican's retarded environmental policies is the biggest reason I don't vote for them.

>>935396
>the economy runs on air and feelings

You do know the EVERYTHING you own and use is grown or mined?

EVERYTHING YOU OWN.

>>935557

>owning stuff is more important that clean air and water

stay cucked, friend

>>935557
conservation is not about the inability to use natural resources; it's about keeping areas pristine and designating others for use.

just as important is using resources to create more resources- sustainable logging that regenerates forests, avoiding resource extraction in areas like waterways and aquifers

it's a lot easier to keep some areas nice and regrow from that, than to try and start from scratch after landrape. just look at the dustbowl.

commodification of national parks is like building a bonfire pit in your vegetable patch because the ground is soft there. no one's saying you can't have both, but you'll ruin one if you don't make some mindful decisions.

>>935557
Short term gains
Long terms gains

I bet you're fat.

>>935557
$.02 has been deposited to your account.

>>935559
You're not usong the word properly.

>>935861
You do know there ate mines in Grand Canyon NP?

>>935886
>assuming
You would lose the bet. Stop projecting.

>>935899
Thank you!

>>935909
*are

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>>934370

>>934370
More neutral than people are letting on.

What isn't reported is that Obama had appropriated 553,000,000 acres of federal land over the course of his presidency, so most of this is undoing what he did.

The other side of this is that many counties in America are impoverished because there isn't a large enough local base of tax revenue to support their governments.
I used to live in Tallahassee FL, and a common complaint was that over half of the county was off of the local property tax rolls in the form of government land. Fully half of it was owned by the Feds in the form of a national forest, and being both a state capital and university town, much of the rest of the town was also government land in the form of government buildings or colleges. They couldn't get enough people or businesses to pay the tax revenue to support themselves.
And that's a BIG problem in places like Nevada or Utah, where the Feds own over 70% of the land. The common complaint from outsiders is "Typical! You just want to have it both ways-leeching off of the rest of America while you complain about big government", but the opposite is true. They WANT to stand up on their own, but are prevented from doing so.
When you don't have enough tax revenue to pay an officer to enforce the law in your county, what can you do?

Trump just froze federal hiring and raises, including NPS and USFS.

I hope you fucking stupid polcucks are enjoying this.

>>936120
You dumb faggot, they are over paid to begin with!

ANY equivalent job in the public sector would be 60% of what they make, maximum!

You don't get raises when your company is in the RED! I don't.

And stop using that word, it's not a word and you look retarded saying it.

>>936145
>NPS and USFS
>overpaid
>concern over not turning a profit

bro do you even go innawoods?

>>936120
>not knowing government jobs are paid 180% of equivalent private sector jobs when benefits are included
Educate yourself
http://freebeacon.com/issues/study-government-workers-make-78-percent-more-than-private-sector/

>>936145
>>936171
The pay isn't the point shitheads. The point is they are freezing hiring, setting up the agencies to fail, and then are going to privatize.

Do you really want privatized public lands?

Fuck you.

>>936145
>>936171
>stupid fucks who think some 50k/yr Forest Service employees are getting paid too much and not the politicians and military contractors

Kill yourselves.

>>936120
Hope it doesn't include seasonal workers. The national parks are going to be totally fucked this summer if it does.

>>936186
this

>>936145
>I'm miserable and underpaid in my shitty job so everyone should be

Great logic.

>>935925
I live in tallahassee right now and I'd say they're really starting to get on their feet in terms of private businesses.

Sure it's technically "gentrifying the shit out of the city" but it is what it is, and I Tally is looking nicer every year.

>>936188
They are overpaid but a bigger problem is the way they tear up the land and harass citizens

My only hope is that (judging by the general reactions in this thread) enough republicans are absolutely appalled by this, and will work to hold their party accountable, and prevent this from happening.

I'm not the most conservative person, but this is really a prime example of the government absolutely fucking the american people to achieve their own interests. All they talk about is "american pride" this and "traditional american culture" that, but this kind of shit absolutely undermines all of that. Our national parks are an important part of American heritage, and if they all get sold to some fucking oil or housing company, I don't ever want to hear a republican use the word "patriotic" ever again.

The government needs to do it's job and represent the interests of the common American citizen, and stop pulling shit like this to put more money in their pocket.

>>936221
It really shows you how despicable politicians can be when both sides are prone to cronyism. For example, why is it in the interest of the citizens to hand over public land to a private company which will in the end still charge people money for their products?

>>936186
Welcome to the Eastern US, kid. It's been this way since the beginning, yet somehow we survived and still manage to hunt and go outdoors.
Get over yourself, snowflake.
It'll be ok, I promise.

>>936188
>doesn't know that local officers are lucky to get 40k
> and the benefits aren't anywhere near Feds-tier
You first, faggot

>>936221
>Feds float the idea that desolate tundra in Northern Alaska will get offered for sale
>/out/ thinks they're going to sell Yosemite
Never change

>>936221
>not wanting a time share on the rim of the Grand Canyon
>not wanting a season lift pass for Yellowstone Ski Resort

Stay poor fag, I can't wait!

>>936186
>private
>public
>lands

Uh huh.

>>936188
>stupid fucks that think goverment workers actually work for what they get paid

>>936145
don't fucking lie. you can google the GS pay chart and see exactly what people are making. guys with masters in engineering AND PE licensure are making far below what their private enterprise counterparts are making.

>>936298
They are over paid to sit around doing nothing but complaining about getting the next increase from a deficit goverment.

They may work 1-2 hrs out of the 6 hrs they are even present for the 8 hrs they are overpaid to begin with.

>hurf durf lazy gubmint workers durr durr

Brainwashed doofuses. Turn off the talk radio and stop browsing /pol/.

>>936239
>snowflake

Cringing hard.

>>936305
Why do you seriously believe that civilian fed employees are causing the deficit and not politicians and the military?

Why do you sill think the deficit matters?

>>936252
>my job is shitty and I'm getting fleeced so everyone else should too!

So you literally are just voting out of spite.

>>936298
If that were true, why would they do it?
They go through all that schooling and take on all that debt just to get paid less than the private sector? It doesn't add up

This whole spiel about
>oh no, they're just humble civil servants doing this out of the goodness of their hearts
...Is bullshit.
They're smart people and they've done the math. They get much further ahead working for the government than they ever could working for an employer in the private sector. Everybody knows it, and there's math to back it up.

>>936313
>voting for Hitlery to spite freedom for all Americans

You litte goosestepping Brown shirt!

>>936298
>retirement
>pension
>scheduled increases
>every fucking Holiday possible
>medical surpassing Obama care for plebian commoners

Lets run America like a business, in the red? No raises, cut backs till solvent

>>936315
>it's inconceivable to the Trumptard that anyone is not motivated solely by profit

I feel bad for you.

>>936321
Or maybe every employee should get healthcare and vacation like every single other first world country in the world?

But no, continue sucking your boss's dick while they boogeyman the "deficit" that will never effect you.

>>936323
>the piddling salary is the only benefit anybody gets from working a government job
Wrong.
And comically wrong at that.
They're motivated by profit, don't ever mistake that. It's just profit that you can't see right off the bat.
Here's a test for you: offer a government worker the same salary as his counterpart in the private sector, BUT in order to get that he has to also opt for benefits and vacation time policies on par with the private sector too.
He'll never take the deal, because he KNOWS what his benefits are worth.
You don't, and it makes you look stupid.

>>936325
>deficits never affect anybody
Except they do. They have to.
That you've never lived in a place where they don't exist doesn't mean they don't have adverse effects. It just means they're baked into the cake of your life already and you just accept the consequences of them blindly.

So why aren't you all just getting government jobs instead of bitching about how much better they are?

>>936333
How is the deficit effecting you exactly? Be specific.

>>936334
Not qualified/too stupid.

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>>936315
>oh no, they're just humble civil servants doing this out of the goodness of their hearts
>...Is bullshit.

do you know who the federal government recruits along with veterans? peace corps volunteers. guys that like you said
>They go through all that schooling and take on all that debt just to get paid less than the private sector?

except they got paid nothing in the peace corps.

>why would they do it?

if altruism isn't enough of a reason, government projects tend to be large in scope, and utilize technology that most companies don't have access to. from an engineering perspective there are professional opportunities that you just can't get in the private sector, so you eat a pay hit.

>Everybody knows it, and there's math to back it up

no there isn't. that article that was posted doesn't take into account that most government gigs require a degree, and by that principle alone means that they will get paid more. its not an apples to apples comparison, and even if you find some fields where the pay is comparable, i can easily show you just as many where its not.

>>936305
i know what kind of positions you are referring to and they do exist, however they aren't as prevalent as you think they are.

most of those "coasting" positions are GS-11/12's who gave up on trying for 13 and found a hole to crawl into to ride out the rest of their 30 years. those are not the majority of government gigs. the turnover rate for GS 5 through 11 is crazy.

the reason they only work for 1-2 hours out of the day is because they purposefully stagnated their careers so they can just muscle-memory their way through the job. if you literally did the same thing for 15 years it would eventually only take you 2 hours a day too.

>>936336
How does credit card debt effect you exactly? It's the same thing, only on the scale of nations.
It'll say this: if there were no deficits, there would be no effort to try to sell off government lands, because we wouldn't need the money.
.

>>936334
I'm a white male. They're off limits to me.

>>936344
You didn't answer my question.

If we really needed the money politicians would be taking pay cuts and we wouldn't be paying out the ass to military contractors.

It's a boogeyman. You're getting conned and believing propaganda.

>>936345
>fails at something
>blames minorities

The archetypal Trumptard.

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>>936341
>peace corps pays nothing
Who told your stupid ass that lie?
Even the "volunteers" get fucking paid!
And the salaries for the regular employees are standard government cheese scale too.

>>936349
Not blaming minorities.
Blaming the system that elevates and honors minorities' achievements over and above comparable achievements of non-minorities solely based upon their genitalia or the color of their skin.
Because, you know, that's racism. And we shouldn't be practicing that, right?

>>936351
>5k a year
>getting paid

It's for room and food dumbass.

>less than six figures management
>"cheese"

What are you talking about?

>>936351
yeah man, that 400$ a month stipend sure is some good pay.

>>936356
In places where most people live on less than $1 per day you bet your ass it is.
And that's where they're working if they're out in the field, right?

>>936354
>fails at something
>blames "the system that elevates minorities"

Why are Trumptards such unbelievable bitches?

>>936359
>In places where most people live on less than $1 per day

no, not always. its averaged over cost of living of all the countries the peace corps serves.

my point still remains that these people are taking significant hits to their livelihood and quality of life because they believe in the cause they are working for. its altruism that drives them and not some cushy job where they can fuck off at the taxpayers expense.

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>>936362
But those are the "volunteers", not the staffers.
The paid staffers get regular government scale, along with all the benefits.

>>936361
>doesn't have a logical argument
>resorts to name calling
Typical.

>>936361
>openly advocating for systemic racism
>calls other people bitches
You sure showed me, kid.

>>936367
and they usually have masters degrees and/or a fuckton of seniority after years of being lowly volunteers themselves. the volunteers make up the vast, vast majority of the peace corps. my point still stands.

>>936374
As does mine that peace corps volunteers are in no way representative of the vast majority of the federal workforce, and those employees are what is
You can argue one specific instance all you want, but the vast bulk of numbers are against you, and you won't admit it.

>>936383
*those employees' benefits and salaries are what is being talked about.

>>936354
>>936368
>thinks stating something and not backing it up is an actual argument

Typical.

>>936398
Funny, I thought the existence of Affirmative Action was common knowledge to any adult who has ever paid attention in life.

For people like you however, here's the backup:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States

>>936239
>He's never been north of Manchester
>he's never been south of Long Island

Why are you even here?

>>936383
>As does mine that peace corps volunteers are in no way representative of the vast majority of the federal workforce

i never disputed that. my example of peace corps volunteers was to show that people who seek public service positions do so out of altruism and not some desire to be slothful and hedonistic with taxpayer funds.

the numbers are not against me because the instances of people mooching and not putting in a good days work are few and far between in the federal service. the lazy bureaucrat positions exist, but you don't understand what it takes to wedge yourself into those positions and how rare they are.

>>936344
this is literally circular logic
good christ

>>936424
>thinks that I don't know what he's referring to just because I find his simple and extremist "explanation" of it to be lacking (because he's so far up his smelly ass)

Typical.

>>934789
what hypocrisy you retarded shiteater? I literally said

>"Most Democrats aren't anti-white" is equivalent to "most women aren't feminazis"
>you tolerate that shit and protect its message from critique instead of confronting it, don't be surprised if people think you silently agree with it

and didn't disagree with anything he said

>>936431
>hissy fit detected

You just can't stand losing, can you?

>>936485
Never been there.
I live in the South.
Have fun with your projecting.

>>936497
I am not the one saying government workers do not work. That was somebody else.
I know a few.
They are decent people who do a good job, show up and all the rest.
I do not even begrudge them their selfishness-they are trying to do the best they can for their families and I am ok with that.
All I am saying is that they are quite overpaid when considering pay levels for comparable positions requiring comparable qualifications in the market around them. I have provided the numbers to back that up.
Like it or not, those salaries have to adjust back to reality one way or another.

>>936566
No, that is an analogy.
There is a difference.
You asked for a real-world example, and one is right in front of us in the subject we are discussing.
That you do not like it is not my fault.

>>936567
>Asks for an example
>gets one
>still has no logical argument
>More name calling again
>all this damage control
Maybe you should stop.

>>936672
>Overpaid government workers

Except that's wrong
http://www.epi.org/publication/public_sector_workers_earn_less/

I am absolutely LOVING watching the libs scream and writh!

Total hypocrites!

>>936677
>cherry picking of state employees
>when we're talking federal level
Noted, and discarded.
Reference for pay discrepancy of government workers at the federal level:
http://freebeacon.com/issues/study-government-workers-make-78-percent-more-than-private-sector/

As for the states, a comprehensive study of public vs private sector compensation is here, and most state government compensation comes out WAY ahead of businesses.
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/-biggs-overpaid-or-underpaid-a-statebystate-ranking-of-public-employee-compensation_112536583046.pdf
(The tables and pretty pictures start on page 58)

>>936672
>>lame troll

Typical.

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>>936774

>>936639
>can't stand losing
I'm sorry, I forgot this was a fucking game.

What I don't get is how the party that likes to claim itself for "family values" is so willing to turn its back on the future. If you care about your family, your descendants, your legacy, why are you so intent on leaving them a steaming shithole of a world?

>>937141
>where America is Great Again

Have you travelled internationally?

Trt Shanghai or Beijing for steamy goodness.
China is commissioning a new coal power plant every 10 days... 10 days.

They sell canned fresh air. You need more experience.

>>936345
>I'm lazy and play indentity politics games to excuse my lack of achievement in life

>>934370
it moves, thus it must be killed

>>937194
>I value, approve of and actively support racial discrimination in my society

>>937672
This is what BLM protesters really want to say.

Not doing it is the exception, not the norm.

>>937672
Affirmative action is not racist.

the vast majority of the retarded shit happening has nothing to do with identity politics, why do we have to keep bringing them up?

>>937761
Because /out/ has a dedicated group of jewish shills and goons who do nothing but start /pol/ shitposting.

>>937712
>everything based is race is racist

Get on board, dude.