what are the advantages of packing matches as opposed to lighters?

Honestly shit gets crushed all the time for me. I have a waterproof box of matches now and when there's room i'm just gonna stuff a lighter in there.

>>643062
it's not so much how many lights you will get, but if you will get any at all.

matches basically suck in every way
>take up more volume
>they get wet = you're fucked
>it rains = you're fucked
>wind = you're fucked
>the head breaks of = you're fucked
>you need more than 5 tries to light a fire = you're fucked in 2 days

>>643062
The phosphorus head will burn much hotter for a sustained length of time than a bic lighter, Match better in wind as it will actually start, but you still need to know what you're doing.

>>643072
the common matches suck sure, but there are storm proof matches that don't mind getting wet and won't b blown out by wind, also i can most likely get a fire out of a match any time.

you have to cheat. bring matches and candle build or find windproof spot light the candle with the match use candle to make fire. works every time.even damp wood will burn very well if dipped in paraffin. i'm working on my fire-skills so that i don't have to sacrifice a candle every time. but if you want to make pretty damn sure that's one way.

>>643077
or bring a zippo. Or a storm proof lighter

Holy shit is this ultralight meme still going?

Bring as many kinds of fire starting as you can. A box of matches weighs fucking nothing, a bic lighter weighs fucking nothing, a flint rod weighs fucking nothing. If you're that concerned about a couple grams, just take a big fat shit before you go for a hike.

>>643093
I'm wondering if there really is ANY time when a flint rod is preferable to a bic lighter.

>>643095
99.99999% it isn't but if you lose the lighter or it gets soaking wet or broken, you've at least got something that can give you a spark.

>>643096
hmm that's a good point actually. A flint rod doesn't break or get wet. I always have one hanging on my bag anyways, it's just that I've never used it to make a fire. But yeah it's small and light so why not

>>643089
yes storm lighters are awesome.
zippo? not so much.
i was just making a point that you can make fire with anything if you also carry the right tinder or accelerant. each and every firemaking method can fail you if you don't. so kind of moot which one is best.

>>643097
you can get a spark out of a broken or empty bic
remove the metal casing and you can use your belly button fluff as tinder it will ignite from the spark shower

>>643093
>>643096
If we assume that a lighter is better than a firesteel, then why would I bother taking a firesteel?

I'm not going to use it to start fires if I have a lighter, so it's pushed off to backup lighting duty. But if firestarting redundancy is important, why would I use an inferior tool as backup? It would make far more sense to simply pack a mini bic lighter in a plastic bag with some tinder than a flint rod.

And why do I arbitrarily have to carry "as many kinds of fire starting as I can"? Why not as many as I NEED+1? I have one bic on my person and another in the canister that holds my camp stove. There, try not losing all your fucking shit all the time. If you're going to lose 2 or 3 methods of firestarting it's probably because your pack is gone down a river or ravine, in which case having 20 methods of fire starting in your pack doesn't mean shit.

Lighting a fire is pretty low in my list of priorities in a survival situation. I think you put too much value on it. Building shelter is far more important, and a good shelter isn't going to benefit from a fire very much at all, because it will be as enclosed as possible to trap warm air. A shelter built around fire for warmth will have you up and down all night feeding it (which is exhausting), or freezing to death in deep sleep if you don't wake up when it goes out.

Andrew Skurka takes one book of paper matches, literally the ligjtest fire source possible and available nearly everwhere for free free.

When all you need to do is light your alcohol stove twice a day for four or five days between towns, how much horsepower do you need?

Really need? Not autistic need.

>>643106
fire is important tho but i can see your point
think of it this way, if you can make good shelter because you have the time and tools and materials for it then okay, but what if you don't? then either you have fire or die from exposure. also if your clothes get soaking wet in winter fire is a must have. it's insurance and costs very little.

>>643109
If I cannot make shelter then it's almost guaranteed I cannot make a meaningful fire, because the materials are the same. Actually, the materials to make a shelter are far more flexible than the materials to build a fire.

If my clothes get soaking wet then chances are all of the wood is soaking wet too. My shivering ass isn't getting a fire going any time soon, even if I had an axe to split wood (which would be dangerous if you were more than very mildly hypothermic).

Insurance is fine, but you shouldn't need more than one backup, and diversifying your backup isn't always a good thing.

>>643110
just for arguments sake you can make fire out of dry shit i don't think you can make shelter out of it

>>643110
>if my clothes are wet the wood's probably wet

there are other ways to get wet besides rain, namely falling into any sort of body of water.

beyond heating you up and drying clothes, fire is used to boil water, signal for help, cook food. It's a very high priority in survival. There's also the effect it has on you mentally, having a fire going is reassuring and helps keep you optimistic, which is the most important thing.

>>643062

Just to toss this out there, but would adding a cigarette or two be a good idea? You could light it and then bury it in the kindling like a punk.

Lighters dont work when cold. Not a big deal, keep it close to your body heat.

>>643138
No that's a stupid idea. Cigarettes have additives in them to make them go out if not dragged on

A few of my friends have waterproof tube key chains to keep joints in.
You can fit a few in there with a lighter easily so you could easily stuff a few matches in their and have no worries about them breaking.

>>643157
I think the top or bottom have a surface to strike matches on as well

>>643140
Yes they do faggot.

>>643150
Citation needed.

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>Not using a mora with firestarter

>>643162
Its a fact

They made cigarettes put themselves out automatically because stupid people would fall asleep with them in their mouths and burn their house down.

>>643162
Not that anon but in the United States at least, cigs do tend to go out if unattended. Not saying you couldn't light a fire with one, but I've had to relight them on more than one occasion (sorce: former smoker)

Also..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_safe_cigarette

>>643160
Maybe a Zippo but not a regular Bic that's been left outside at -10c.

It's completely average size anon, no need to be angry.

>>643166
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_safe_cigarette

No it says quite clearly they are designed to slow the rate of burning, not to extinguish themselves.

>>643186

I work in Alberta, it frequently dips below -30 and my fucking bics work just fine whether I leave them in my pocket or on the hood of my truck.

>>643062

Better question is..why aren't you packing both? My fire kit contains matches, lighter, ferro rod (attached to knife) cotton balls, lil bit of fat wood, some other odds and ends.

Always good to carry multiple ways of starting a fire.

>>643191
I live in Alaska and just tried this, I left the lighter outside for about an hour, and it worked fine.

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as mentioned in the OTHER fire starting kit,

MAGIC FUCKING ROCKS

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>>643199
what I want to know is how long do they last? is it purely for fire starting or lamps, or can you cook with them? how long does it last? how much would you need to boil a cup of water?

What is a good storm proof lighter?
Had an IMCO back then, but lost it and now the price is way too high.
I'm not a fan of Zippos,either.
Most of the time I carry a Bic but I would like to have something more permanent.

>>643201
You can't cook with them. What happens is they release gas (acetylene) when in contact with water, and it is the gas that burns, not the rock itself. As such they are only really suitable in pressure devices, most of which you can marginally control either the water input or gas output. I've seen a few carbide-powered cooking installations but there really is no advantage over butane, white gas or any other pressurized fuel.

>>643077
Storm proof matches are shit. I hated using them.
They lasted two seconds after you lit them and didn't light up my tinder for shit.

>>643196
just seems like matches are kinda crap compared to decent lighters, as this anon >>643072
posted

i like them for lighting my propane barbecue because i can drop them between the grill slats. other than that i'm using something that runs on butane

>>643201
>>643211
how long could you run a lamp like that with one fill of carbide?

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How about everstrike matches?

I've never personally tried them, but they look neat.

Although not really a match per se.
It seems to use extreme air friction to light in any situation.

>>643249

I have one. They're fun to play with and all but the simplicity of a bic wins. However, the "match" is pretty hard to put out compared to a regular match. You have to shake it pretty hard so probably pretty good for windy conditions. But the container slowly leaks the lighter fluid, however even if it were empty, you could use the fero striker rod to create sparks.

Win some lose some. I don't take it camping just because I already have lighters. But it's not a bad tool..

>>643249
>>643256
oops...
I had two thoughts hit at the same time; firstly the everstrike, the air friction part is another type of ignition source called a fire piston.
Both seemed really cool.

I usually carry both, the matches are backup if the lighter runs out of gas or fails in any other way.
Lighter used to be bic but switched to storm lighter couple years ago. Matches are just regular matches in a waterproof container.

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>>643242
Typically 6-8 hours, sometimes less (or more) depending on the burner (a brighter, larger flame will last less.) Petzl's Ariane, a modern generator, holds 400g of carbide and 180g of water and you can then hook it up to any lamp with the right fitting. With the Aceto for which it was designed, it gives 7-8 hours of flame.
Older lamps were usually a one-piece design, with the generator and the lamp itself together in the same housing.

>>643222
cool story bro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hta9yloT6wQ

>>643300
wow those are some nice matches
i'm guessing magnesium based with some built in oxidizer.

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>>643075
depends on the match

standard cook's match, a NATO weatherproof match, and a UCO Storm match.

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>>643406
> nice

Accept no substitute, pic related.

Unless you're upgradeing...

>>643101
even a bic that won't light if you take off the metal shield you can get a few more lights. I know it's > 60 second of flame on a small one. Maybe much more. I stopped at 60 seconds.

>>643107
I think a book of paper matches would be dead last on my list of choices of things to have with me.

>>643191
You don't notice any reduction in performance? I had to google for second opinion on this. I dont know why you are being so angsty, just trying to help.
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=153568

>>643062
Get good, expensive and rugged lighters that can use multi-fuel sources. Get good, expensive, and rugged matches too. The kind that strike once, are fairly thick, can't be blown out, and work underwater/in downpour (stormproof):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMMaOdHKxvM
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004P5XOTA/

Most good stormproof lighters and stormproof matches can work underwater. Always have backups. You never know what may happen.

>>643240

They can be crap, they can be good. In live in WA. Never had problems getting a fire going with marches, even during the rainy season. Like I said, rather carry multiple ways to make a fire.

How hard / costly would it be to make your own matches?
What goes into making what I imagine is a paste at the end of the matchsticks?
Does researching this kind of thing get you put on the no fly list ?

>>643669
>What goes into making
Mostly phosphorus. See wikipedia.
>Does researching it puts me on the no-fly list
Pretty sure there's a ton of this shit on Instructables and such.
>How hard/costly
Unnecessarily costly unless you reuse matches you bought just for the materials. Not hard but impractical. Dangerous for your safety and your health (phosphorus, sulphur, saltpeter etc. are extremely toxic.)
tl;dr no need to.

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>>643669
people used to rot away walking from making matches

>>643062
Its a good idea to get one (or more) standard lighter fo erveryday use. and get some super ultra storm proof Matches (those with extra long burning heads) for really shitty or wet weather. like >>643075 told, those matches can save ur ass if theres some strong wind or wetness... or both.

>>643062
>>643072
i think i read from many people that lighters might have problems at altitudes and from cold.
matches will work in these conditions too.
one other advantage i like is you light the match you put it in the tinder nest made in your fire stack and that's it takes care of itself. it's more effortless and convenient in some cases than with a lighter.
>you need more than 5 tries to light a fire
now that is just silly i never needed more than one

i'm not saying anyone should only carry matches, but matches + ferro rod is a pretty safe combo for a couple of days hike. you can conserve your rod for years if you use matches when you can. and still have a backup that will work if you get fucked on the match front or have to stay extended.

i carry matches lighters candles and ferro rod cause you never know which one will come handy. first i try the match, then the lighter then the lighter + candle and last resort is the ferro rod, but never had to use it so far. candles are fucking awesome. wood dosed with candle-wax will start your fire for sure they keep well they don't mess anything up they don't smell and don't leak i love them.

>>643062
ypu can light dozens of them and have a very hot fire when the phosphorus is igniting,also you can put matches in the tinder,you can't do it with a lighter,cuz it's bigger,also you can put several matches in different places under the tinder,not in only one place