Can winter camping/overnight sleeping ever be made livable?

>>636023
No, humans didn't exist prior to central heating.

Man up.

>>636023
kill animals and harvest their fur

>>636023
Insulate your van with reflectix and a vapor barrier, install a roof vent and buy a propane buddy heater. Also invest in a good down sleeping bag.

You can also use a hot water bottle to heat your bag up.

>>636023
Mylar emergency blankets, line the walls of your van with it and things will get nice and toasty. I'm not sure if you can order off amazon but 10 for 7 dollars.

>>636028
I'm skin and bones. Just bearing it doesn't seem to work unless there's a trick I'm missing

>>636036
very solid advice my man, I've got a roof vent but I will insulate it it. Do you have experience? I'm a little concerned about killing myself from fumes in here - even my gas cooker seems to produce enough to cause headaches with the vent open which is definitely not a good thing

>>636038
emergency blankets sounds like a very cheap insulation. Can try

>>636044
Put on some weight, then. I realize I'm pretty abrasive, but if you want to make it work, make it work. Soup kitchens and panhandling, that's gonna help you.

That reflectix is gonna set you back a bit, but a properly insulated van will keep you warm in any environment.

Not sure what temps you're dealing with, but I get drunk when I go to the city and sleep in my car a lot (because I don't want to get a DUI or kill someone by driving). Generally a good sleeping bag in addition to my clothes does fine down to 20 F. Beyond that I'll kick the heater on. If you don't have a heater, just use more layers.

If you're not in a vanit's a different story. The biggest things for me have been getting some distance between me and the ground and finding or building some sort of shelter to keep the wind off and hold some of the heat from a fire. If you don't have good clothes and a good sleeping bag you're still going to be miserable, though.

>>636044
Don't run the buddy heater all night. Just blast it before you go to bed. If you suspect exhaust is building up, kill the heater and pop the roof vent.

I'd also say if you can afford it, reflectix over emergency blankets, it's about $20 a roll but it's way more durable and can be cut to fit odd shapes.

>>636023
I sleep in my tuck bed. Rubber mat, a foam sleep roll and my 0F bag under a trifold tonneau.

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I used to sleep in my lane cruiser on a futon mattress with sheets and a down comforter that's it in weather down to -20F
I had a dog with me too tho
Maybe that helped
Before I got the feather comforter I used about 6 wool blankets
In both cases I was toasty as duck
My breath would frost the inside of the truck tho
Was awesome actually
>pic related
This was in spring

>>636068
Would you stop already with that stupid story of how you slept in your truck bed one time because you locked yourself out of the house!

BFD! That's not going /out/!

>>636086
This is not me, I do this during deer season.

>>636075
Lol
Lane cruiser!

My friend the hater calls it a "crand loser"
He and his wife weigh like 600lbs together

>>636023
The secret is staying warm you fucking retard.

Insulation above and below.

>>636062
Not OP, but why a roof vent? I thought carbon monoxide and dioxide both built up at the bottom. Wouldn't cracking the door open be better?

>>636125
You have to let out the moist air or condensation will make life dripping wet.

>>636023
where do you piss and shit?

>>636134
in ziploc™ bags so i can use them as hot water bottles/warmers in my bed

>>636135
I once had to stay in a cold building for a couple of nights so I drank my piss to stay warm.

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>>636068

Are you me?

>pic related

it was 20 degrees that night,slept like a rock

>>636023
maybe you could create a smaller enclosed sleeping compartment out of styrofoam and cardbard.

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>>636138

>>636268
Nah man, you got too much fluffy shit to be me.

>>636134
actual op here, I use 4L's. They hold far more and unlike 2L's you can actually fit the tip of your penis in them. I will occasionally throw out the jug after emptying them a few time

as for shitting. There's never been a time when I wasn't able to find a nearby toilet before going to bed. It's no big deal

>>636075
>In both cases I was toasty as duck

Having a dog doesn't hurt either.

>>636023
>But some people seem to do just fine in it. What's the secret?

They're used to discomfort.

>>636568
it's like a portable heater

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>>636032
this and Tumo meditation.

How else do you think those Tibetans survive in the Himalayas?
Or maybe its just because they consume insane amounts of milk and butter wich is why they all have a layer of fat for cold resistance.
The are aren't fat tough, the long hikes and hard work in the mountains keeps them healty, muscular and strong.

I read somewhere that some people are genetically just more resistant to cold then other people so you might just be unlucky.

Post your e-mail or make an IRC channel and I will teach you Tummo (Inner Heat) meditation.

>>636476

Thats all the fluffy shit I own. Also, lawn chair covers make great sleeping mats, if anyone is looking for a cheap alternative to the standard.

>>636613
I hadn't thought of lawn chair covers. Something that worked well for me was the shiny foam car windshield covers when I was backpacking on a budget.

Generally sleeping in a van comes down to insulating the walls and adding some ventalation up top. Cant really think of a way to do insulation on the cheap though. Maybe layers of corragated cardboard could bebhad for free? Seems like the air trapped inside the corrigation would act as a insulator well enough. Then put the reflective mylar on the side facing you. The place would burn down real fast though carefull.

>>636609
Any quick instructions you can give me? I'm not OP but I'm curious to see if this works.

>>636138

>tfw drank piss once for same reason

>tfw expected it to taste bad but it tasted far worse

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>>636781
Breath only trough nose
breath using diaphram muscle(not the chest muscle)
When you use the diaphram your shoulders and chest stays level and barely moves. Only your abdomen goes up and down.
When you use chest muscles its the opposite.

focus concentration on spot 2 centimeters(~1 inch) above naval
visualise every breath as hot steam flowing trough the body
visualise a glowing orb of warm light at the spot above naval
visualize each time you breath in the orb starts growing, getting warmer, and intenser.

The visualisations take practice and its best to do it in a safe enviroment first.
After enough practice your mind is trained to really believe the visualisation and you can clearly see it happen.
Slowly starting getting in colder situations. Stable the mind with breathing to stop distractions from cold.
remember to ALWAYS STAY CALM. Prevent body from getting in to a shock by breathing slowly and deeply in a regular rythm. Dont tense up the muscles; try to stay relaxed.

There are more advanced methods, but the visualisation require even more concentration.
Like visualising having a shield of flames around you, a body made of rainbow light, a head shining like the sun in all directions, multiple orbs inside other orbs transferring energy to each other.
All these visualisations have to be done at the same time without giving more importance to one aspect over others.

If you have trouble creating/visualising the most basic shapes then you can wait untill you are very hungry or thirsty then you start visualising delicious foods in front you and use that experience for practice.
First you start with the general outer shape of the object then you slowly start filling in the details and get more accurate.

The general idea is that the mind is an illusion and while it usually tricks us, we can trick it back and with concentration take control of our experience.

A good sleeping bag is the #1 thing you can do to keep you warmer. Insulating your van will help too but you absolutely need a good sleeping bag.

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>>637002
Forgot to add an important thing.
This more a kind of warning/disclaimer.

If you have experienced major traumatic events in the past, or are very depressed, scared or hateful then during the visualisation random images sounds, and toughts can suddenly pop into your mind that are very negative.
You can relive past traumas and become very stressed out. You can become depressed, fearfull, anxious, or paranoid if you dont know how to deal with it.
If this happens during a extremely cold situation your hearth rate rises dramatically and your muscles tense. This can lead to potentially deadly conditions.

These negative experiences can include seeing dead people, your deepest fears and nightmares, abstract concepts like hell or dispair, hearing voices and more negative things.
Like I said earlier the mind is an illusion and these things are not real.
Stay concentrated and let these things pass naturally. Do not react to it. Dont panic. Combat the negatives with the positives by thinking happy toughts. Take a break for a while. Take a couple of deep and calm breaths. Try again later if you are ready.

These things dont normally happen to the average healthy invidual, but I felt it was a responsibility to add it.

>>636075
>be toasty as duck
>get eaten by dog

great plan genius

>>636044
they are not insulation per say they reflect radiated heat to a great degree.
>>636023
why not get a proper sleep bag rated for minus degrees? throw it on a mattress and you are good.

i would rather install a generator o the roof and use electric heating than try to burn anything inside a van or tent, but i suppose you could make a little stove with chimney up through the roof that was you would be reasonably safe.

>>636609
>>637002
I used to meditate regularly haven't for a while desu, but whenever I did I'd get this warm rush through my body, like my circulation suddenly improved massively. Mindfulness meditation btw

>>636684

I started with one of those giant dog pillows because it was only $3 on clearence, it worked pretty well, and wasnt to heavy, but the fucking bulk made it hard to use unless I was truck camping. After that, I stumbled across these lawn chairs in the trash, and decided bring them home to fix them up and sell them, but instead I kept them for their covers which are absolutely perfect bedding material both onnatrail or innatruck.

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No, of course not. Humans have never found a way to survive outside in the cold.

>>637299
How does that not all melt?

>>637300
It's really cold outside

>>637308
I know but wouldn't the inside melt somewhat?

>>637312
Not much, try it with a snow shelter, the inside won't really melt even if it's warm inside. I don't know the physics of it but they're pretty stable.

>>637313
Don't live in Antarctica so can't try unfortunately. Still, impressive.

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Winter camping is fucking awesome.

Get some warm gear, a fire and some booze. So comfy.

Here's my camp.

>>636058
You can still be charged for a DUI if you are found drunk in your car.

>>636075
>tho

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I lived in my Westy for years and found that that the flame from a single lit candle will keep the air temp from getting bitter cold, and that another pair of wool socks did wonders.

>>637327

In a van it's harder to make the DUI charge stick if the keys are not on your person, not in the ignition, and if you are in the back of the vehicle, but cops being dicks can still wake you up, just don't give them any lip and you'll be fine.

>>637324
looks comfy

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>>637491
>trust fund kiddos and hipsters made westys crazy expensive
>tfw poorfag
>tfw by the time I save enough to buy one and restore it they'll be even more expensive

You're a lucky man

Considering visiting Iceland mid January for two weeks. Think it's possible to bike it and winter camp for that time with one bag? I've camped when younger during the autumn but not during winter so I'm not sure what I'll need and not need and what to sacrifice to keep one bag light.

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>>637044
Go make a "I'll shoot your dog cuz I'm scared of it" thread like the other faggots.

>>637501
Hipsters ruin everything. I fucking hate hipsters.

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>>637501
I thought about a Westy, but I've decided I want a domestic based Class B like a Getaway Van or an Okanogan.

Cheaper parts, easier maintenance, more space and amenities. Also doesn't scream Trustafarian.

>>637300
The inside of the igloo does melt, but the amount of snow that melts is negligible when compared to the amount of water that re-freezes at any given instant.

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>>637501
i know that feel, really wish i could afford something like this

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>>636075
>In both cases I was toasty as duck

>>636023
All this shit about insulating your van is a complete waste of time and money.

When it comes to the cold in situations like this, its all about minimizing the amount of air to heat. Well start from the outside and work our way in.

First thing to do is seal up any drafts the vehicle might have. Any movement in the air will make it feel colder. Pay particular attention to the heating vents making sure they are in the closed, or recirculate position.

Secondly, and counter-intuitively to the first point, ventilate. You want to leave enough airflow up to allow for a small amount of heat exchange to move moisture out. Ideally this is a roof vent away from your sleeping position.

This is ALL you need to do to the van.

If you can manage it, get a foam matress to sleep on. This will insulate your underside the best. A cheap wally world twin size compressed mattress will be more than sufficient. Being foam it can be folded up with straps or rope if needed, and generally man-handled.

Next you want blankets. The ONLY natural product you can use here is wool. Cotton is prohibited, and down is frowned upon. Avoid these materials as moisture build up will render them less effective. Wool will move moisture readily across a temperature gradiant. Use multiple blankets so you can choose just the right amount of warmth to keep you from sweating.

Wear long johns and insulating materials like fleece. Weat warm winter socks, gloves or mittens of some sort, and a warm insulated hat.

Eat fatty energy dense foods. A cup of hot cocoa with some butter in it is a nice night cap to find sleep.

Even an insulated van will lose heat faster than you generate it. And generating extraneous heat is problematic.

your money and efforts are best spent keeping YOU warm, not the air and objects inside the van warm.

>source
Lived in a van for eight years in some of the harshest winters I could think of.

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>>638904
>>637694
>>637501

TFW just finished restoring my 90 full westy and ready to hit the road

>>636023

Put more clothes on....it is literally that simple. Dress in layers, take off layers to not sweat.

When sleeping...use more layers again. This time in blankets.

I lived in my van for almost a yr, some times it got down to single digits in temp. Just bundle up more, drink warm fluids, get some food in your stomach before bed.

>>639099
that last one is an important note. never go to bed hungry if you can avoid it, especially in a situation like this.

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>>636023
I was sleeping in the back of my 83 Mercedes 300 TD during a cross-county road trip. A coleman flannel sleeping bag, some USGI wool blankets and a fleece kept me warm and comfy.

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>>639141

Can anybody give me advice on a sleeping bag? I was looking at cheap mummy 20 degree sleeping bags for like $100. Would this be okay if I'm sleeping in my car/tent?

>>639092
this is all very good advice.

a small tip as well is to take a bottle or bladder of warm water to bed.

>>639168
Depends how cold it gets. To be comfy you generally going to want something rated for like 10-15º colder than the temp you're going to be in.

If you have the money, down is nicer than synthetic of course, higher fill power down is lighter but costlier. If you're in a tent make sure you have a good sleeping pad or some sort of insulation from the ground, that will make the biggest difference.

But ultimately, as long as the bag is rated for the right temp, and it fits you, then it'll work.

>>636044

Get a couple of cheap sleeping bags and if you're still shivering like a pussy, go out and buy a survival blanket too.

Put one inside the other inside the other, the secret to warmth is layers of warm air.

Also, sleep with a wooly cap on

>>636023
Can we pause for a moment to admire that leg wrapping? Gorgeous.

>>636023

my only advice is drink hot tea or something before bed to warm you up on inside, then seal yourself in sleeping bag with only small gap for eyes/mouth. Thermal underwear and thermal sleeping bag liner also good. So long as you are insulated from any cold surface with a thick foam or air mattress, and you have a half decent sleeping bag, if you are warm when you go to sleep you shouldn't lose heat overnight.

>>637501

>don't have license, need 120 hours driving practise (and nobody to learn from) before can get it
>don't have any money for westy

why even live?

>>639232
Tea is bad advice. It'll make you want to pee and being restless is a thing you don't want when you have to sleep cold (speaking from experience.)
I've also read that it's good to piss and shit before going to bed, so you don't waste energy keeping that inert mass warm. But maybe that's only marginally efficient unless it's really a calorie-deficient situation.

>>639234
Work towards your goal. Save the money and start taking classes.

>>636023
More clothes and more insulation.
I use two polar sleeping bags,a fur jacket and fur hat during winter. Leaves me warm and snug all night. Nothing warms like fur, op.

>>637631
You know what? Your shitpost has to be bait.

Not only will I pepper spray your damn mongrels if you are hiking them without a leash, I will pepper spray you if you bitch about it!

And if you're filthy hippy enough to be hiking without shoes or boots, I will stomp you feet while you're crying your eyes out from the pepper spray!

Keep your dogs on leashes and put your fucking shoes on you filthy hippies!

Here's an idea: drive your van somewhere warm.

>>639265
and what about people who live in cold countries?

>>639385
Don't make stupid choices, get a job or move in with a fat chick for the winter.

If drummers don't have to live outside during the winter, anybody with a capable brain shouldn't.

>>636023
Yes. Shell out them shekels for the nice warm goods.

>>636023
buy blankets and use them to insulate your van.
buy more blankets and get under them.

>>636023

Without even reading any of the thread, I'm going to tell you that the most important thing is to insulate yourself from the surface on which you are lying. That's the ground, the concrete, or the cold steel of your van. Spend the money on a THERMAREST.

2. Whatever sleeping bag you get, sleep in it NAKED.

That's it.

>>637002

>it's all in your mind
>that's why i have this sleeping bag

>>637316

No snow there anyway.

>>637327

What state? In AZ I thought as long as your keys weren't in your ignition you were good.

>>637501

Why would you want a VW in America? Way too expensive to fix.

>>640189
> rubbing your asshole on your sleepingbag == sleeping in an assbag

No thanks, I dryclean my bags once a year because I never sleep naked in them.

>>639168
Get as low rated bag as possible.

The temp rating, especially on cheap bags is the survival rating. Meaning you'll live at 20 degrees, but not be warm at 20 degrees.

On amazon, slumberjack makes a -25 degree bag for well under $100. Teton sports makes a few -35 bags that are huge, and are lIke $135.

>>639234

Underage b& plz go

>>636023
Layers. Layers like a boss.

You don't insulate the van. You just crack the windows so you don't suffocate yourself and so moisture can escape. You insulate the area immediately around yourself.

I'm doing this tomorrow night. I've done it before, and I'll do it again, 'cause skiing is expensive enough without getting a hotel room too.

>>640201
Just ordered a -20 one for $71. Thanks for the awesome suggestion. Any advice on tents? Dick's sports has a shitty one for like $30, but i'm realizing that these sporting retails stores are shit.

>>639092
quality post

Lol only fags get cold

>>636023
>What's the secret?

Superior Nordic genes.

>>639092
Excellent post. One more tip, empty your bladder right before you go to sleep, even if you feel like you don't need to. There's no point in wasting valuable body heat to keep your urine at a toasty 98.6 all night.

>>640188
You can find cheap blankets at thrift stores.

>>637002
> I will think myself warm

Great way to die.

>>636023
>>636023
My sergeant used to say that only the poor, lazy and stupid are cold.

Use the old tricks man, dont sleep in the car. Make a fire before bed, heat up rocks to put in your sleeping bag (not so hot that you start burning a hole through your bag) Do 50 pushups and drink something warm before going to sleep. And buy a better winter sleeping bag for Xtreme temperatures.

>>637328
Some people write(type) in a manner to emulate speech patterns and tones they use

When I wrote that it was to be read as "dough" as in jig speak

The more u know

>>636044
drink grease

>>637313

probably it's because water is a really good conductor of heat, so the temps on the inside and outside of the walls tend to average. Someone who actually knows science can confirm?

>>636023

You're miserable at night? Dude there are plenty of ways to stay warm at night wtf is wrong with you?

Buy a cheap, rubber hot water bladder and poor boiling water into it. Then screw on cap, then wrap in blanket, then insert into sleeping bag. That shit will keep you warm all night.

Also if you have the fuel/are able to start a fire you can heat rocks and wrap those in blankets for the same purpose.

You can also easily construct a frame of mylar blankets around your sleeping area with a little imagination. Provide a bit of ventilation and you should be very comfortable.

It's all about layers. I've lived in my van before during a new england winter, honestly if you can't figure out how to get comfy you're a dumbass though...

>>637312
yeah it melts somewhat but it turns to ice very quickly. so while surfaces might slowly deform its not weakening the structure. Also keep in mind that people who build these live at really far north latitudes.

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>>639141
>>639145
is this some sort of mobile swedish kekshed?

>>636023
Hey, I don't know if you're aware but there's a yahoo group called living in your van which you should check out, well worth it if you live in a van or wanting to convert a van for recreational use

If you can't afford one of those fancy -30c sleeping bags then just buy two cheap bags and put one inside the other, double the insulation rate for a fraction of the cost, leaving enough change for some crack.

>>636609
>kundalini fire
>chakra knots
>energy flow

In India they eat very spicy food to help them cope with the summer heat, well maybe if you ate a tub of icecream before bed it will help you deal with the cold. Smart logic see.

>>643901
> ur so dum
The spicy heat is for stimulating appetite when it is hot out, like Mexican cuisine in Mexico, not
> to cope with heat physically

Source, I eat food in Arizona

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I suggest you all read Becoming The Iceman by Wim Hof


Dude hold several weeks pls recorded for swimming in ice water and doing a marathon in the Arctic circle wearing shorts and no shoes.

It's all breathing and mediation, he says he's able to regulate his own internal temperature

>>636023
Warm drink before bed, go to bed in your clothes.

How cold does it get around you OP?

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>>640195

>Why would you want a VW in America? Way too expensive to fix.

I chose a 80' westy with an air-cooled engine and an automatic transmission for simplicity. In a westy the main things that wear fastest are the brake pads and tires. As long as you have some tools and a jack, you can easily do any maintenance yourself.

IF you look around long enough you can find reasonably priced westies for less than 5k if you're willing get one that isn't in cherry condition. I got mine for 3k, and while that might still be a bit more expensive than a similar year cheby van or ford, the westy will have most of what you need to live in it already which usually isn't the case with conversion vans.

>>640196

Wearing just your underwear and wool socks in your sleeping bag is fine too, >>640189 is right though, the less you wear inside your sleeping bag , the warmer you'll be.

Just lay down a blanket then put your clothes flat and then lay out your sleeping bag, and if it's really cold another blanket over your sleeping bag and you should be fine and your clothes will be warm when you go to put them on in the morning.

On the subject of hydration, warm teas and broths are great for warming you up from the inside out., however don't drink more than 8 oz of liquid two hours before you go to bed, or you'll have to get up to piss. (keep a piss bottle handy) In cold weather staying hydrated is very important, since if you are even a little dehydrated it will affect your circulation, and good blood circulation is the key to staying warm, so avoid overly tight fitting clothing if possible.

>>639136
nice motor

>>636609
>Tibetans
>Himalayas
They're Sherpas, buddy. Tibetans live on the Tibetan plateaus or closer to China.

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i just slept out in the florida december winter, my whole body wrapped up in a sleeping bag. was pretty cold because it's so humid in florida.

had a 40 degree mummy bag kaufland, 1.75 lbs

wind/water resistant/polyester fiber batting/mega light microfiber fll with hood/polylining

it was okay. throughout the middle of the night i threw on a quilt over the bag. wasn't bad, only when i woke up was i freezing but kept moving around in the sleeping bag to stay warm and and the sleeping bag was pretty good for insulation. a better sleeping bag like 20 degrees/30 degrees and i probably wouldn't have needed a quilt. sleeping outside in the cold is very nice if you can keep warm and it's not too humid

florida winter just is kind of rough because everything gets wet in florida, there's humidity all year round -.-

http://www.amazon.com/Kaufland-Superlite-Mummy-Sleeping-Green/dp/B00IS8DGAW

>>644604
oh yeah, also used a styrofoam mat for insulation and was elevated on a bench. the bench had openings in it that allowed air to reach the bottom of the mat and the side of the bench

the secret is to not be a sissy

>>644604
>cold
>Florida
pick one
I lived in Florida for seven years and the heat is fucking unbearable at any time of year, any time of day. Absolute shit climate

>>643055
You hate women, don't you?