What if I told you that 99% of knife breakages could be avoided

Are you retarded or just new at batoning?

>>1075034
Neither. I never baton because it is not necessary. A knife is for cutting, not striking.

>>1075034
>new to batoning

Who the fuck practices batoning? It should only ever be used as a last last last resort because there's a high chance that you'll end up with no fire wood AND a broken knife...

>>1075049
I blame youtube
Buy an axe kids, axes are great

I've been reading up on both sides of the controversy and playing out all the possible scenarios in my head for and against axes and battoning and I've decided that I will do what the fuck I want when I want, dependent on the situation, not a thread on 4chan.

>>1075035
If you have big enough muscles, batoning IS cutting. Since you don't, you have to artificially increase the excerted downward force. The simplest way is to use kinetic energy i.e. knock with a piece of wood to transfer energy via the impulse. One impulse is not enough, therefore many impulses and lot of knocking is needed.

Don't lean on the handle.
Don't try and split logs, especially wood with knots.
There's little chance of breaking a knife if you batten this way.

>>1075141
>'If you have big enough muscles, batoning IS cutting'
Id like to see a guy with muscles so big he can split logs and baton with a knife like its nothing at all. Secondly, bigger the muscles, the more energy you require to sustain them. The more energy you need to sustain those huge muscles, the more logs you have to baton to burn longer for your huge pieces of meat on a stick. Your logic bigger/stronger=easier batoning is flawed, when you take in account the massive energy required and the massive energy spent.

>>1075154
>manlet rationalization

>>1075033
You are absolutely correct, anon, but the "batonnychopchop" faggots, sincere or troll, won't listen to reason or common sense. They're only in it for memery and (you)s, it's like trying to tell kids in primary school not to eat paste. Kudos for the effort, though. Know that you are not alone in your bewilderment at the idiocy of it all.

>>1075154
The point was that given enough force the blade will just slice (cut) through the wood, and it is not "striking".

There is no human that can slice through a wood like that. Maybe through balsa.

And batoning is not striking WITH the knife, you strike the knife to transfer more force for the downward motion.

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>>1075154
>h-heh at least im efficient with my little muscles


In all seriousness though anon, muscles act as a reserve of amino acids (which can also be synthesized into glucose for your brain) so people with big muscles marbled with good amounts of fat will probably survive much longer in an extended survival situation.

>>1075034
Welcome to 4chan. What website did you come from today?

>>1075211
1 pound of fat is just about 1 day's worth of food rations when you can't get enough food. If you are 30lbs overweight then you have almost 30 days worth of hard rationing of food. You'll lose almost a pound a day for the first half.

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>>1075049
>Who the fuck practices batoning?

Youtube Manchildren

>>1075033

>the log is bigger around than the knife blade is long

or maybe, just maybe there's a grey area between cutting 3-4" diameter logs into kindling and trying to split a large oak tree

>>1075235
A pound of fat is 4000 calories.

When fasting metabolism slows down and you won't even use half that.

So 30lbs of fat becomes way more than 60 days of fuel.

>>1075257
When you fast you lose nearly 1 pound a day, but it depends on how much exercise you are getting for most people. The average weight lost each day is a curve. Meaning as you start running out of fat near the end, the curve goes sharply and you lose much less weight each day. Check out, Angus Barbieri's story about fasting.

When I stated "you have almost 30 days worth of hard rationing of food. " I err'd and should have typed, "you have over 30 days worth of hard rationing of food. Just a clarical error on my part.

Now, "So 30lbs of fat becomes way more than 60 days of fuel." No, not even remotely close. You'll need about 50lbs of fat for two months.

>>1075033
The other 1% is me getting drunk and throwing them into telephone poles, I suppose

>>1075033
How many boards did you post this on. I already saw this saw exact thing on /k/

>>1075298
the buttblasting in that thread is hilarious

>>1075298
>>1075320
..... >>>/k/34770650

*inhales*

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

>>1075323
This is better than kid posting in the fishing thread.

>>1075033
99% of the knives break because of bad heat treat 1% breaks because of shit design.

>>1075055
Fuck carryin an ax more than a few miles, buy a fox wedge for splitting shit if you have to do any walking

>>1075435
Most tools break because of tool abuse. Like that faggot that uses the tip of a knife as a screwdriver.

>>1075281
my father just lost 30 pounds in 3-4 weeks while he was not even exercising just lay in a bed trying not to die and he actually got some calories in just not enough. all the fat disappeared his skin looked like crumpled paper most of his muscles are gone too.

>>1075438
breaking off tips is not that big of a problem i re-profiled a few knives that had broken tip you couldn't even tell unless you put it next to a new one of the same type.

>>1075165
>>1075141
You have no idea how much stress you put on the steel by doing that.
>>1075436
Or just make a wedge.
>>1075438
This.

>>1075443
>You have no idea how much stress you put on the steel by doing that.
he is right tho when you baton you should not exert force on the handle you only use the handle to stabilize the blade somewhat but with a light touch and always hit above the contact on the blade. a well made steel wedge will not break from this the stresses on the steel are not that bad in this case.

problems start when knives with bad heat treat are stressed with great leverage the wrong way and introduced to undue stress by hitting the blade off center.

basically with proper batoning technique it's almost impossible to break a knife. if it does break it was crap. but you can't make a knife strong enough from common steels that it can't be fucked up by batoning it wrong. even an esee 5 can be easily snapped if you go full retard on it.

>>1075441
>breaking off tips is not that big of a problem

It is a massive problem because it means the personality of the person who did it also does other shit like that. They fuck up most everything they touch and are usually hemorrhaging money.

>>1075443
Fox wedge weighs less than normal splitting wedge and will outlast a wooden one, its worth the time savings to me to carry it, either way battoning is stupid

>>1075033
>>1075237
This is why you buy a forged blade.
>inb4 someone thinks I'm advocating batoning with a knife

>>1075237
>>1075033

Batonny pro tips: if there's snow on the ground then the cold temperatures are making your steel knife more brittle and you should be more gentle with it especially if you're using a 440c steel meme knife

>>1075468
it can happen by accident easily, the tips on most knives are not that strong. knife falls on stone tile of a rock and the tip is gone. some people then trow out a perfectly good knife when it's easily fixable.

>>1075481
the medium carbon content steels are very sensitive to temperature changes. the high and low carbon knives don't give a shit they are already brittle or go brittle under -50C

>>1075493
44c has carbon content of about 1% which means it's a high carbon steel. the ductility/brittleness change over human survivable temperatures is negligible.

Batoning is fine, if you do it correctly.
First and most important. Is to not baton a fuck huge log.
A wirst thick branch will not do any damage to a knife.
>inb4: just throw the branch to the fire
Yeah, in some cases. But of you want a efficent burn, or to get more temeperature this size wood will get that.
Second. Dont force the knife, if a piece of wood is getting to hard to baton, just save it for later, and throw it into the fire when is hot enough.
Batoning is fine, just do it with common sense

>>1075510
Still not necessary. How hard is it to make a wedge?

>>1075511
i think it's all about time. i would never baton my knife if i have time to make preparations to avoid it. like finding suitable wood and making a wedge or just simply collecting the right size wood for building up the fire.

i sometimes find myself in dark can only get a few bigger piece of wood dragged to camp where i have to process it and make fire and don't have time to fuck around. even then you can usually avoid batoning unless the outside of the wood is wet and you forgot your hatchet at home or lost it.

i always bring a knife when i go out but only bring a knife if i plant to camp and make fire. sometimes plans change and you have to adapt to circumstances.

even if i somehow managed to break my knife i still have a backup edc folder to cut with.

>>1075516
>but only bring a knife
*but only bring a hatchet if i plant to camp and make fire

>>1075516
Making a wedge takes about 5 minutes, and it more than makes up for that because a wedge is more efficient at doing the splitting.

>>1075504
You dont have to try since /out/ is exclusively 'muh murican made spring steel carbon mustardrace' since they think they created outdoors and camping.

>>1075520
Why are you so insecure?

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batonny chop chops are kinda like the /out/ versions of tumblr fags you literally cant reason with mental illness or retardation

>>1075518
5 minutes my ass.

first you have to find suitable hardwood that in itself may prove impossible, then you have to cut a suitable branch of 3-4 inches diameter off and to size with your knife which will take an hour at the least in the dark and then you have to shape it say 20 minutes because you only have a knife no axe and then fire harden and stone sharpen the edge.

that's how you make a good wedge it takes about 2 hours and a fire at least.

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>>1075601

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>>1075601
>>1075603
I remember a similar person in one of the other batonny chop chop threads. I was astounded by how inept they were at crafting anything. I'd probably take 10-15 mins to make a couple wedges since I like to do things at a normal pace. I'd also use my saw. It is only 3 cuts after all. If I had to use my knife, that's easy too, just do what you do for feathering.

>3-4 inches

Why? Where did you get the 20 inch log from? 2 inches is a wide enough wedge to split pretty much anything.

>>1075616
>I'd also use my saw
but that's not what we were talking about. knife only at night hardmode: no headlamp.

>>1075616
>2 inches is a wide enough wedge to split pretty much anything
never seen a wooden wedge that thin but next time i go out i will try it out.

>>1075623
You should probably not stop in the middle of reading a post to reply to the post.

>>1075626
It is all about the angle. You don't use the wedge to cut. You use it to split. Meaning the angle is usually a bit wider than what most people imagine. Hence the dull angle a splitting maul has. I suppose if you are really shitty at hitting the top of the wedge to drive it you are going to mess up the wedge and need a wider target.

>>1075629
you can only use the wedge with a crappy edge and wide body if you already have a crack to work with.

if you want to fully substitute an axe head you have to make a wedge that can get started and that means sharp hard edge probably fire hardened and stone sharpened. very time consuming to make.

size matters a lot sure, if you only make it 2 inches it takes a hell of a lot less time. i'm not completely sold on that being strong enough until i tried it.

>>1075237
>b-but we wuz full tang n shiet

>>1075532
>insecure
He isn't, he's right and you're projecting.

>>1075518
Someone should invent a wedge with a handle that you can take with you. Maybe make it out of metal so you can get it nice and sharp so you don't even need a knife to start the split.

>>1075749
why not just carry a fucking axe? it's not that much heavier

>>1075436
I used to do most of my walking with 40kg of pack, 10-15kg of armour and about another 10kg of guns and ammo, carrying around a 1.5kg hatchet or a 3kg 3/4 axe shouldn't be too difficult

Seriously though, if you've got to make a full nights worth of firewood by taking apart a dead- doing it with a wedge is going to take fucking ages. If you're lucky enough to have enough loose, fallen timber in the area then you can get by without it, but sometimes you can't and have to bust something up

Carry an axe or if you really want to baton carry a damn froe they make them to look like knives so you can pretend you're a survival expert on YouTube when you play in the back yard

>>1075033
>What if I told you that 99% of blablablabla...
I would say you should back up your claims with actual data from several independent source.

Why is everyone so absolutist and autistic about this?

If you want to split wrist thick wood a knife is ok.
If you want to split logs get an axe.

>>1075827
>Why is everyone being so autistic?
This is 4chan

>>1075837
It's rhetorical.

>>1075033
At the risk of being swamped by an unending sea of anger at asking this; why would you need to split a log in the first place?


I'm legitimately curious. All I can think of it for making or crafting specific stuff, but in that case a saw is probably better.

>>1075439
>most of his muscles are gone too.

People have a tendency to forget that muscle has mass, too. Half or more of his weight loss was probably muscle loss and not fat loss.

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>>1075749
What, like this?

>>1075754
i think the "wedge with a handle" is obviously an axe maybe a splitting maul

>>1075861
The usual answer is that everything is wet and frozen and snowing and raining all at the same time so they need to split open massive 3 feet wide logs in order to get to, "dry wood". Because for some reason they don't have any tinder that can dry out and light a feather stick twig. Oddly enough, these are the same people who bring gas or solid fuel stoves thru-hiking.

>>1075898
Oddly enough, maybe these same persons who bring gas and know how to baton sometines hike in different places?

Some places don't have a lot of trees in general.

And something like frozen sticks of pine are not going to burn. Bigger sticks even less so unless you split those and make feathersticks or use the innards. Frozen bundles of leaves won't burn either, if you care to dig them from under the snow.

>wet, frozen, snowing and raining at the same time
Parts of winter/early spring in the mid-northern Nordics are sometimes like this.

Batoning is just to split tiny diameter pieces of wood if you don't have an axe handy. Not to make 20 cubic meters of firewood for the winter.

>>1075919
>maybe this
>maybe that
>I'll make excuses for things I really don't know anything about.

I've started fires in all manner of bad weather and good weather. There's no excuse for not being able to start a fire, even with 0 tools. If you are going to be outside, you should know how to do things correctly. Just stop with the bullshit already.

>>1075898
Thanks for the answer; it makes sense. But on the same not, couldn't they just chip off a corner, or even just skin the bark, and then try to shave off pieces of the dry wood underneath? I understand it would be more finicky, but it'd provide you with tinder all the same.


Or am I being way too pedantic?

>Oddly enough, these are the same people who bring gas or solid fuel stoves thru-hiking.

Kek, I believe you. But those stoves are pretty handy...

>>1075932
Why are you so mad?
Splitting small diameter wood is a quick and easy way to get kindling, even if it isn't raining.
A piece of wood with four corners and no knots makes a better feather stick a branch of the same thickness.

Battening is useful and you need to deal with it.
Stop being so smug and insecure when you can't understand why people do something.

Batoning is fine if you have full tang knife with thick blade and you only use it for SMALL and DRY wood. Its not a fucking axe that can cut trough big logs like in Op's picture. But its enough to split small firestarter material.

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>>1075955
>Splitting small diameter wood is a quick and easy way to get kindling, even if it isn't raining.

No, it is a long round about way to do it. Use twigs that are already the size you need. Batoning is extremely useful it pointing who is a complete mouth breathing manchild.

>>1075932
>YOU have started
Not everyone is such a Real Man like you and can make fire without any tools in a blizzard and always finds tons of suitably thin deadwood and low branches which are miraculously very dry, and twigs which catch fire, and dry leaves from under the snow in the heart of the winter, etc. etc.

Where have you made these fires in all conditions?

>>1076040
>go out, search for, gather, and bring back dry wood of a very specific size

Yeah, sure seems like the easy way.
The fact that you even have that image saved shows what/who you are.

>>1075955
I bet his domestically-made killer soldier knife with a serrated edge and onomatopoetic trademarked name broke while he cluelessly smacked some log, which lead him to question the core values programmed into him, leading to an internal conflict and hence the neurosis about firewood processing with a knife.

>>1076062
The same neurosis and obsession you have with Ka-Bars?

>>1076053
>go out, find deadfall branch
>it happens to be tapered and includes twigs

WEW
E
W

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>>1076047
You don't need dry sticks to make a fire. Soaked frozen sticks will work. This is how I know you are a car camper.

>>1076166
> Burning soaked frozen sticks
Yeah, that might work if you use a lot of gasoline or lighter fluid or other flammable liquids. Maybe your EDC napalm does the trick, try it.

> wet tinder
> damp kindling
> wind
Close encounters of the third kind. A true winner.

Even the excellent SAS survival handbook says "if the outside [of kindling] is damp, shave until the dry middle is reached".

The quickest way to split a stick is to use the knife, if you have no axe.

Also, while you're at it, the same book says: "If it is absolutely necessary to split logs in order to conserve fuel, an axe is not needed. Even quite a small knife placed on the end of a log and hit with another hard log may split it. Once begun, plug a wooden wedge in the opened gap and drive this downward to complete the split."

The figure in the book shows a big log which is not smart to baton fully. Smaller ones can be fully split with batoning. Batonny chop hop to you too.

>inb4 Dakota fire pit
A fuckload of work to dig frozen ground.

t. car camper

PS. Maybe you should go teach winter survival for the military, they might really appreciate your expertise.

Do any of you people actually bushcraft? Lol
I've batoned knives for years when I'm splitting up firewood that doesn't require a axe. Seasoned oak, hickory, and locust and I have never broken a knife. I even done so lightly with rat tail tangs.
If it works, it works. Don't buy crap knives and don't bite off more than you can chew. Just stick to forearm thickness in wood size. Anything bigger just use a axe so you're not fighting it.

>>1075890
obviously, the person you responded too is just a dumb dumb

>>1075033
Seriously, why not just bring a hatchet?

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>>1076214
>wet tinder

This is why your entire post is shit, anon. This is how we know you know nothing at all. Tinder is your "lighter fluid". You bring dry tinder with you when you go out. You carry it in a dry tinder box. A lot of people use an Altoids can, in a water proof bag, stuffed with char cloth or cotton balls and other fire making stuff.

Even if for some reason you don't have any tinder at all, you can still make a fire. It is extremely easy to do, even without any tools at all. Humans have been doing this for millennia. It isn't magic, it isn't 1337 skills, it is just simply and easy methods that you need to practice in an afternoon in order to master. The only problems arise when there is no vegetation at all, like in a desert or at sea. If you can't wrap your head around a mundanely simple concept as this then you should stay out of the woods and keep to car camping. You do not belong in /out/, kid.

>>1075257
>A pound of fat is 4000 calories.
3500 actually if you want to burn it

how do i go from wedge to split log

t. idiot

I've only used a Buck 110 when /out/ for fire and food prep, in snow and desert.

There's zero reason to baton unless you want to do it for fun.

>>1076305
>It is extremely easy to do
bullshit under some conditions it's only easy to make fire if you have a can of petrol.

>>1076783
Don't bite man. He's trying to play you.

>>1076639
you baton you knife into said log to make a crack to baton your wedge into.
>inb4 you make a wedge so you don't have to baton your knife
morons

>>1076305
> desert or at sea
Or tundra in the winter.

Thanks for playing.

>>1076796
or just in rain or heavy fog when everything is drenched.

>>1076305
>carry dry tinder
What happens when you run out of dry tinder? The altoid box slips and you lose it. Of course this won't happen to you, ever, because muh bushcraft relatives, but just for a theoretical discussion assume it just did. Your fires won't happen. Carrying tinder with you and relying 100% on it is noob level stuff anon. You can find all tinder you need from nature but you may have to baton to get it. Do you know how? Can you do it?

>extremely easy to make fire without tools
>presume arctic winter wonderland
Yeah, you can always use something like an eskimo fire drill once you manufacture that in situ and find animal fat to burn. I would not call it extremely easy.

Why not just baton with your hatchet? I do it all the time, its alot easier than trying to split the small stuff with a swing.

>>1076808
I prefer ye ole hold the axe and wood together and whack on a stump method. Either way is fine though.

>>1075898
Ill bite. What's wrong with bringing a gas or solid stove thru-hiking?

Does anyone have the image of the baby crying with a bunch of broken knives from failed batoning attempts?

>>1076824
>>1074245

If you do anything other than split the wood apart using only your hands and your trusty knife, you are a complete faggot. Batoning is a primal art. The epitome of facing the world, standing up, and saying I AM A MAN.

The only acceptable way to supply your fire with tinder or dry wood during your /out/ing is to split whatever delicious wood you have with your bushcrafting blade.

>>1077305
>t. youtube member

>>1077305
Is that you nutnfancy?