I'm a novice camper building my gear up. My local surplus

>>1050913
Meme, you can get much better for $80.

>>1050913
shop around, alice is shit for 80$. id buy if it was 30 for both

>>1050913
They're awful. They are uncomfortable, heavy, and they carry the load awkwardly, away from your body.

For $80 get a used Kelty Redwing 50. Hell sometimes Amazon has them new for that much. Camelcamelcamel.com for a price tracker

>>1050944
i agree but a pack isnt supposed to carry close to body, otherwise it causes chafing. do you mean distribute the weight?

>>1050913
I would pay you money to take mine away from me. Definitely old and outdated tech a 80 pack from Walmart or Cabelas would almost certainly be better. Though if you do get one I would recommend using it without the frame. The frame just adds a shit ton of weight and discomfort.

>>1050950
You want weight close to the body, this doesn't
have anything to do with chafing. It has everything to to with the moment caused at the knee and hip due to the weight of your backpack. The further it is away from your back, the longer the lever arm (meaning it's more work for you to carry it).

>>1050956
It's a poorly designed pack.

But my point is you dont want your pack directly on your back. Frames are better at distributing the weight to your hips.

>>1050944
Seems like a comfortable pack. Have you used one? The storage seems awkward.

>>1050968
they arent comfy unless you're carrying about 5 or so lbs. once you fill the pack halfway you realize how bad it is

>>1050913
The military has even phased out the ALICE packs and for good reason.

>>1050973
What I don't understand is why are they so recommended if they are so bad? I hear nothing but praise it seems.

>>1050976
LARPers and stupid "operator as fuck" types and the occasional old vet jabbering about how great his shitty gear was. I'm thankful I never had to use one of these especially since I was also carrying a full med bag in addition to the rest of my fucking gear in the field.

>>1050976
because they're indestructible, dirt cheap, and milsurp guys are just trying to convince themselves to be less miserable, like I do when I'm trying to sleep with my mss by telling myself that it makes up for being ~4lb in the winter.

>>1050978
>>1050980
lol

>>1050957
he said "close", not "directly against"
you stupid nigger

>>1050976
That's just bullshit.
I've never seen anybody recommmend an ALICE pack, ever.

>>1050913
Not for $80, get the pack for no more than $15 and get a molle frame instead. Strap it up like this: http://libertytreeblogs.blogspot.com/2011/04/building-hellcat-hybrid-ruck-from-us.html

This is the best way to employ an alice pack. Those who doubt me, suck cock by choice.

>>1050913
I personally enjoy the Alice pack. I think the comfort level of them is perfectly fine, but I've been using one for years. The SOF community still uses them to this day. They ride well on the body, hold up for years with 70-100 lbs of gear even when used frequently, clean easily, and you can find them with the frame for more around $40-$50 from online retailers. I've fucked around with other packs for >$100, but they've never held up nearly as long. You really won't do much better until you start spending hundreds on a good pack.

>>1051039
see
>>1051138

Also look at any youtube video about ALICE packs. They are all positive.

>>1050976
They're extremely durable, because the frame is welded steel.

They USED TO BE very cheap, a used ALICE pack with a large sized bag and frame was $25-30. At the time they were this cheap, there weren't any even remotely kinda decent commercial packs available for under $150. This led the rampant poorfags to praise them as it was that or a sack thrown over their shoulder.

They distributed weight and were harder to overpack (due to being about half the capacity) compared to a first generation MOLLE rucksack, and the frame didn't snap in half the first time you got more than 40lbs in it unlike the first generation MOLLE rucksack. As a result there's a shitpot full of soldiers who served during the transition period who never used a commercial backpack singing their praise.

>>1051138
>you can find them with the frame for more around $40-50 from online retailers
No you fucking can't. You can't even find a beat to shit frame with broken welds for under $45 and that doesn't include the straps, hip pad, or bag.

>>1051223
I thought they were anodized aluminum?

>>1051223
the frames are riveted aluminum, and they are pretty damn sturdy for what they are. the large packs are great, i wouldn't even bother with a medium. its the frames that give these rucks a bad name. get the shelf that goes on the bottom of the frame. it helps some. there are whole other frames you cant get for these, i've never personally tried them, cant say if they're junk or not. if you really want a surplus ruck that sucks less and is still dirt cheap, get a molle II off of ebey or wherever.

tldr; just don't put 80lbs of shit in them and you will be fine. or spend the money to get something nice.

>>1051260
>>1051267
The ones I was issued as recently as 2008 were welded steel.

I know they were welded because you could clearly see the welds. I know they were steel because they fucking rusted.

>>1051225
We'll, it looks as though you're correct, at least on the large side. You can still get used medium Alice packs for around $50. I hadn't priced one in years, and I've never actually bought one from a store. They're still an excellent value for anyone who will be in more harsh conditions.

>>1050913
ALICE packs are fucking garbage, overpriced, back breakers that literally any who was issued one hated to no end.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Rucksack-Backpack-MOLLE-II-Large-Field-Pack-Complete-US-Military-Army-Very-Good-/291828450695?epid=2055039686&hash=item43f254c587%3Ag%3AWCkAAOSwX%7EdWmv5x&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac1b57eea-6040-11e7-b887-74dbd1806fd6%257Cparentrq%253A0a9da62915d0aca469e58e04fff3a7e5%257Ciid%253A1
The modern army molle II rucksack is however an amazing and durable pack.
The frame is form fitting and ergo, the pack holds weight like nothing else I have used.
The belt is thick and comfortable.
The way the belt and shoulder straps are connected gives the bag 'float' so it does not pull you when you shift weight like an internal frame pack.
For the price it is literally an unbeatable pack.
That or the marnies pack
http://m.ebay.com/itm/USMC-Marines-ILBE-Propper-Military-MARPAT-Gen-2-Assault-Main-Backpack-Pack-Body-/291939522284?hash=item43f8f396ec%3Ag%3AdT8AAOSwh-1W2PvS&_trkparms=pageci%253Aa2f7aa1d-6041-11e7-a6d4-74dbd180b732%257Cparentrq%253A0aa369c015d0a7f227928a8ffff3d1e9%257Ciid%253A1

>>1051467
I found an ALICE pack with MOLLE straps (hellcat it's called) for $50 I think I'm going to get.

>>1051482
That just sounds terrible
The good part about the MOLLE II ruck is the frame and suspension system.
Having an alice with the molle webbing does not do anything to mitigate the issues with the alice ruck.
Sorry if I cannot respond for a while, I am heading up a pass into Raton NM so my coverage is intermittent

>>1050913
Check out my shitty blog post on this topic
>>1048508

/out/ is probably the shittiest board to ask as they are all flaming autists.
I have been hiking with an ALICE for years with no problems and it only cost me 5$
My advice is to go rummaging around antique stores until you find a cheap one and just use it.

alice is a meme best suited to 3-day hikes. In reality you should just buy the 7 day bag and get it over with

t. Medium ALICE pack owner

>>1050913
The metal frame is nice but it has a lot of draw backs which other anons have noted.

>>1050976
Because of the metal frame mostly. Sure it's nice and tough, thoroughly over-built for practically anything you would use it for. But again, as others have noted it has serious draw backs. Seriously the only people I've ever seen use it are:
A) Too fucking poor for anything else
B) Carrying at most 10 lbs
C) Are retards who think anything different is bad
or any combination of the three.

If you really wanted to run with milsurp, which I would recommend against, get one of the newer packs. Specifically this one:
https://www.amazon.com/FILBE-Coyote-Brown-Frame-Waist/dp/B00ZGUURY8

>>1051467
USMC updated. We swapped over to something closer to the MOLLE II link you posted, but it's in coyote (sandy brown) color. The Amazon link I posted will show you.

I have to say that the big difference that I like was were the assault pack (about the size of a backpack) goes. With the older ILBE it protruded out from your back so you'd have to use your core muscles more on long hikes. With the newer one, it was secured on top of the pack, so the weight was only pushed down onto your hips, which made it easier to haul heavy loads.

>>1050913
Get a swedish LK35 or LK70 instead

>>1051900
no hip beltz. yyyyyyyyy

>>1050913
Hey /out/ I do some search and rescue with my EMS company and I need a pack to take out for about a day at a time. I like the simplicity of this one, but it's pretty spendy for a 20L pack I think. Are there any that are similar but priced more affordable? I only go out for a day at a time, it just needs to hold spare socks/food/water/etc.

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-tst-combat-pack/51617

>>1052424
lmao @ that overpriced garbage backpack

Nigga literally just buy something from wallyworld. If you're buying a 20L you don't need to spend money for durability since you're not going to load anything heavy in it anyway besides some water. You could also try to find something off amazon or ebay. If you really decide you love going outside then you'll know by then exactly what you want out of a backpack and you can buy a good one.

>>1052424
>20L pack
>960g/2.2lbs before you actually use any of the molle webbing
Nigga I have a low-mid-end 60L trekking pack that weighs less than that.

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>>1052571
>>1052634
I see what you guys are saying, but some EMS like to have that whole panel open up for access to all gear while working on a patient. You would want a heavy duty zipper because of the way it's set up, which would explain some of the excessive weight and price because it's harder to manufacture as well. That bag does seem like a meem and you could prolly something better for the purpose, cheaper. Especially considering he only listed "socks/food/water"

>>1052424
Hey, I work in a rural EMS system. Don't do SAR really but we do have a wilderness team with potential of SAR attachment basically, on top of normal trail calls, ATV accidents etc.

Look at Hill People Gear: http://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/3

I usually carry the Tarahumara as my day pack/'go bag' on the ambulance and it is surprisingly capable for the size. I also have their Kit Bag with it but it's not essential.

I would suggest either the Umlindi or the Connor Pack for your purposes, also look at their Prairie Belt or Recon Belt for modularity and expansion.

It's really good shit. I like the simplicity, durability, and frankly their harness is very comfortable. Not having compartments takes a different mindset, but thet give you the flexibility to just build pull-out pouches or use one of their insert panels for MOLLE.

>>1052674
Then I'd suggest taking a look at the Mystery Ranch RATS pack. It's a purpose built medic bag for combat/wilderness situations and has a tri-zip that's no-bullshit waterproof, and also allows top-stuffing if you want.

It's a lot heavier (6.3lbs) but also a bit larger (23L), and comes with an actual frame and waistbelt. It's really fucking expensive though.

A $50 -$100 High Sierra internal frame pack will be lighter and more comfortable than any surplus pack. Surplus only has one positive. It's cheap. If you are paying $50 or over for a surplus pack you erase the one positive.

>>1052674
He's not an ems otherwise he would have said, he does search and rescue, so probably a volunteer with the fire department or whatever, to go turn over leaf piles innawoods when someone goes missing. An ems would already have a bag for medical gear from their company. All he needs is a 20-30L cheap backpack, anything expensive is a waste of money.

>>1051090
This op. Hellcat mod but don't spend $50 on a frame. Try some gun shows and ebay to find better prices.

>>1050976
You must be from >>/k/

Don't buy milsurp.
Get a 50 litre osprey atmos or equivalent from any online retailer on special. This will cover you for everything that doesn't require a specialist pack.

>>1054505
While /k/ommandos do recommend them with disturbing frequency, I've heard the recommendation more in real life. As I said earlier, it's the metal frame. Everyone thinks it's the best thing every because it has a metal frame.

>>1050913
I have and love my Alice pack, but it was also 5 bucks at a garage salet. My gf's pack was like 80 and it's WAY never than mine. But he again, I don't mind because she has all these pickets and shit and my goal is to go as utilitarian as possible, eg she has a specific pouch for a ten or stove thats good for that sort of thing, but fuck it I just stuff a folded tarp and some 550 cord into mine

>>1054788
Holy fuck I'm tired

>>1050913
It's not terrible. /out/ absolutely detests milsurp though so you won't get any positive recommendations here except for maybe /k/ommando
crossposters.
It's not that comfortable but you can sort of fix that with the hellcat mod (MOLLE II straps and waist belt and ALICE pack + sleep system carrier).
What it lacks in comfort it makes up for in absolute indestructibility and decent modularity.

Can you find something better? Yes.
Can you find something better cheaper? No way.

>>1050913
I've logged a lot of miles with one of these on my back. They suck. I have one sitting in my closet and I haven't touched it since I got out.

They can be upgraded to make them better, but by the time you buy a new kidney pad and shoulder straps you've spent $100. Just buy a well reviewed pack off a second hand seller.

>>1053390
I am an EMT but we go out in teams and we don't all need a jump bag, one person has a bag the rest of us haul all the other stuff with us. I do like that that one is thin and opens all the way though.

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I just bought one of these on vacation recently to Colorado. Just a meme or are they really good outdoor packs for hiking and camping?

ALICE is dog shit, especially when you can get the assault packs for cheaper. You can EASILY squeeze 72 hours worth of shit into the assault pack, you could survive twice as long with the medium ruck, and you could set up a straight up field base with the full sized ruck.

They're comfy cheap, and bulletproof. Normally the army shit is terrible, lowest bidder and all that, but they nailed this one. Just Google "assault pack," or "acu rucksack."

>>1055971
I'd get the USMC updated version referenced in this post >>1051788
Amazon calls it the "FILBE".

>>1055755
Looks great for college campuses, shit for /out/

>>1055755
how much did you pay
looks like a hipsterbait pack

>>1055755
looks like it's new production in the style of a vintage pack? hm. if the stitching and fabrics are any good, at least it's better than nothing, I guess.

proper vintage milsurp in the style that pack is aping often has great stitching and materials, if it's been preserved right, but has a tragic tendency to smell sorta miserable until you let it air out on a good dry day, with some dryer sheets inside

>>1050973
PJs still use them

So im looking for an external frame pack, something that has a pack on the upper to hold a lot of medical supplies and space on the lower to lash a folding stretcher to

ideas?

Last week I bought a medium ALICE pack with frame on eBay for $42 shipped. It's in good condition.

$80 is way too fucking much.

>>1050913
joined a militia years ago and they gave me a shitload of free milsurp gear this being part of it.

Been using it ever since. Works alright for what I use it for.

>>1055755
i like the keymod straps

>>1050913
ALICE packs are great, but not for 80$.
Go buy something with subdued colors from the nearest walmert/cabelas/rei/whereverthefuck you can get a pack thats decent for half the price. or spend the full 80 and get something real nice.

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Is there any real difference between hiking backpacks and hunting backpacks? Pic related is 50 litre one for hunting, but from what I see on the pictures and the clips it's pretty much identical to the ones for mountain hiking.

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>>1058538
And a second pic.

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>>1050944
Witnessed

Second the Kelty Redwing 50, it's a very comfy well designed pack. The storage is actually pretty easy to get to since you can open it either in top load or fully open like a suitcase, the pass through pouches on the sides are handy for carrying all kinds of stuff like my saws, axe, and cringey swords.

You should go to a sporting goods store and try one on, you'll like it.

>>1055755
This stuff is made more for looking like you go out and like you're a "rugged individual" than actually really being out. The price tag is ridiculous for what you get. I mean it could work, just why not just buy something cheaper that would also just work?

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>>1050913
I don't like mine. When fully loaded, it's hard not to topple over.

I've used it twice on backpacking trips and the weight distribution makes long hikes unbearable. I can barely do 5 miles before I'm done for the day.

However, it is good for carrying a bunch of stuff from your house to your car, and from your car to your log cabin/beach house. It's good for outdoorsy type trips, or if you to need to haul a boatload of stuff and don't mind the torturous weight on your back. But I'm done hiking with it.

>>1058884
That picture makes my back hurt

>>1050913
All of the China made tactibags have been shit to wear for longer periods even in urban conditions. Try going with it for 10h and moving all the time.

It's even worse when /out. Those bags are not made for comfort I suppose.

The Flextrek Whipsnake might make more sense.