Is hunting really necessary? Hunters kill predators to protect

Yes, it would be the best for nature to let it sort things out itself, but that doesn't put meat in my freezer

>>1043914
nature says you should die of starvation OP

get to it

>>1043915
I can respect people who hunt for food rather than trophies, but they are a small minority of hunters. For most people, it is far easier and cheaper to buy meat than to pay for the privilege of hunting on someone else's land.

What does it matter? It helps the environment and is fun and cheap way of getting meat.

>>1043917
that's not true at all, and you've clearly no idea about hunting

>>1043918
>It helps the environment
No, it doesn't. Many species have been driven to partial or total extinction by it. Others are now not as big and healthy as they used to be because hunters select the best animals to kill as trophies.
>>1043919
I know people who hunt, I have hunted with them, and they pay thousands of dollars for it. That's far more than the meat would cost in a grocery.

>>1043919
While I guess you could hunt so that it is cheaper than what you can buy for, I consider it more of a fun hobby that has the side benefit of bringing meat home, of course there's costs in the permits and so on atleast here in euroland.

>>1043917
One Oregon Elk Tag = $42.00

One adult elk = 200-240lbs usable meat

200lbs elk meat from vendor http://www.elkusa.com/elk_meat.html: ~$5000

You literally save ~$4960 on one elk.

The vast, vast majority of people who hunt do it for food.

>>1043920
Then you're just associating with cunts. 99% of people hunt for cheap food, and killing old bucks is beneficial for deer. It gives the spikers a chance to compete. Hell most of the trophy animals no longer breed.

>>1043922
how much do i save from shooting a whitetail deer

>>1043922
>The vast, vast majority of people who hunt do it for food.
No, they do it for fun. The meat is just an afterthought.
>>1043922
>One Oregon Elk Tag = $42.00
The tag cost is just the tip of the iceberg. People spend thousands of dollars and many hours of time on hunting.
>>1043923
>It gives the spikers a chance to compete. Hell most of the trophy animals no longer breed
You just contradicted yourself.

>>1043924
I'm assuming white tail are the same size as fallow, with fallow you tend to get around 40kilos of nice meat. Also hunting is free where Inlive.

>>1043914
Because to keep prey populations down youd need alot of large predators around which are then also gonna eat peoples livestock, pets and maybe some people too

>>1043925
How'd I contradict myself? Trophy can be both past breeding and still breeding.

>>1043925
>The tag cost is just the tip of the iceberg. People spend thousands of dollars and many hours of time on hunting.

Thousands of dollars? What the fuck?

I don't know where you live but here you can easily buy a $100-$300 rifle/shotgun, $20 of ammo and your $42 tag and that's literally it. Load your shit up into your car and drive 20 minutes to public land and get your game for the year. There are no other costs, and the rifle/shotgun is a one time purchase.

>>1043928
And you are using both possibilities as arguments in favor of killing them. Your logic just doesn't add up.
>>1043929
It's much more expensive for out of state hunters. Most people don't have the option of in state elk hunting because elk have been extirpated from the eastern half of the country by overhunting.

>>1043925
Admit it mate, you're a faggit vegan aren't you?

>>1043929
how does hunting on public land work? what are my chances that i will come across other people while out there? can i set my stand/blind up and just leave it or will someone steal it? also how do i know that there's no one in a stand or blind in the direction i'm shooting when i take a shot?

>>1043931
I eat meat all the time, but I buy it rather than hunting it.

>>1043930
THEN HUNT SOMETHING ELSE YOU THICK FUCK!! Jesus fucking Christ mate, not everyone is a faggit trophy hunter who travels across the country.

>>1043930
dude idk where u live but idk anyone who is gonna take the time to drive to another state just to hunt. we dont have elk here so we just hunt deer and hogs and whatevers local

>>1043933
Congrats you're paying for animals to be far worse off then a deer will ever be. I'm not against it or anything I'm just trying to make you see that your faggit logic doesn't work.

>>1043914
We are part of nature, nature is running it's course

>>1043932
Kiwi here, why do you yanks hunt in blinds? Is it a comfort thing or is it super effective?

>>1043932
We have a very short hunting season for both deer and elk here, which means yes, you are going to run into other people hunting on public land unless you purposefully go to bumfuck nowhere.

I wouldn't leave it, never had anything stolen myself but I don't think it's worth the risk.

You only shoot if you have a clear backstop and know you're not going to hit anything. If you shoot even remotely close to someone they're going to call out so you stop. Pretty much noone uses stands or blinds where I'm at anyway

>>1043925
Oh, then why did you bother starting this thread? Being such an authority you are just saying no to whatever we say, so really this is just a political agenda thread on my pro guns board.

>>1043938
i do it because i'm scared of heights and i can bring a portable heater and get comfy. cant speak for anyone else though

>>1043938
ive never hunted in a blind because it's boring to sit on your butt for hours on end (i just stalk), but i know some bow hunters that use them

>>1043942
My thoughts exactly, I sometimes wait out clearings but I normally get bored as fuck after an hour. I normally get more luck going to high ground and scoping out for deer. Seems a bit retarded to limit yourself to a couple hundred metres.

>>1043943
The ol tahr technique.

>>1043938
Nother kiwi here sometimes I climb to known wallows/ sheltered hanging valleys in the early morning then sleep for most of the day under a blanket dropped between a couple of spear grass or matagouri. that's sorta blind hunting I guess

>>1043925
>No, they do it for fun. The meat is just an afterthought.

Oh fuck off, you're not a mind reader. You've talked to a small sample of hunters, don't try to speak for millions of people with such little experience.

>>1043946
specifically he's talked to what I am guessing are numale twink "hunters"

>>1043947
That's a pretty specific and bold statement to be made with the evidence given, you got something you wanna tell us?

>>1043947
Something tells me your gay, also I think you're referring to young hunters. I hunted as a teen, still did it for meat though. My dad would give me money if I got a deer. Also an Indian restaurant used to give me $10 for goats, and a farmer used to also pay me $5 a goat for getting them off his land.

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>>1043948
>>1043949

ill admit i started fantasizing aboujt teaching them a lesson

>>1043950
Hot young dudes, 20 somethings. Real smart-alec know-it-alls. Taking their new fangled ar15s out deer hunting, paying thousands to hunt out of state in their state-of-the-art blind complete with satelite tv and a blender for pina coladas.

They see me, with my tactical PU sniper nagant dressed in freshly ironed milsurp and fall in love at first sight.

I scold them for using the blind, tell them they should use real manly rifles, .30 cal. Let him feel some wood from my stock and trace the grains of the butt until they realize superior russian technology. I seize both their means of production and things start getting hot and heavy

>>1043951
u hwat

>>1043945
Nother kiwi here haha
Closest I get to a blind is up in the horomungas. You lie in wait on a south facing ridge waiting for rusa to come out and warm themselves on the north ridge.

Then you smoke them with my crusty old 303 across the valley haha

>>1043934
I'd rather not hunt anything. I'd rather leave the land in its natural state.
>>1043936
The ethics of farming are worth consideration, but that is a different conversation.
>>1043937
Not exactly. Human beings have a level of self awareness and abstract thought that allows them to act artificially.
>>1043938
Because we are lazy and like to sit. It's easier to let the animal come to you.
>>1043940
I'm not interested in legislating to tell you not to shoot animals. Moral suasion would be much more productive.
>>1043951
/k/-a magical place.

>>1043953
Who'd a thought this thread was so infested with kiwis. Where about are the horomungas? I personally hunt up the Wanganui river and the ruahines.

Yeah those tricky deer, always predatoring.

>>1043955
In the uruweras up behind murupara. You follow the way up the horomunga river. Theres alot of country back there. Gotta be careful up there, theres maori land pockets up there, doc huts too. Except one got burnt out a while ago.

>>1043954
>I'd rather not hunt anything. I'd rather leave the land in its natural state.

the natural state of the land is humans hunting things u silly goose

been that way for literally hundreds of thousands of years

>>1043958
Early man did not have the ability to radically alter his environment. The Plains tribes lived with the buffalo for countless generations. When the industrial revolution came, the buffalo were nearly wiped out in less than a century.

>>1043951
Kek

>>1043957
Sounds like rough country. The doc land around here is normally light bush mixed with farmland and forestry. Except for up the Wanganui river.

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>>1043954
>moral
>OP now deems eating calorie dense foods amoral
neck yourself mongrel

>>1043961
Fucking steep mate, its hard work up there before you even have to carry meat. I probably dont help myself by carrying old outdated shit haha.

>>1043963
What you got down there? Mostly reds?

>>1043964
Bit of everything in there, reds, rusa, fallow. Go a bit more north to rerewhakaiaatu and there are sambar.

>>1043965
Neat. I'm pretty lucky where I am, only fallows in the north island, sambar, reds, sika if you look hard enough. What's rusa like? Tasty? Also pretty jealous of the fly fishing you guys have down there, I kinda have to travel to Rangitiki.

>>1043966
The horomangas and rerewhakiaaatu are in the north island, haha more or less central north island. Rusa is tasty. Somewhere between fallow and red in terms of taste

>>1043962
Strawman.

>>1043967
Eh? Google fucking lied to me. Fucking Maoris why can't they just have the one horomunga

>>1043969
Haha i spelt it wrong. Its spelt horomangas. Grandad did alot if hunting over the years. Reckoned in the early 60s he say a mob of 54 reds, on the rangitiki plains. Long gone are those days

>>1043970
It's not so bad. The further you get from palmy the better it is. When I was a young spark I used to know a couple farmers up there who had problems with reds. Around Turakina and the road into palmy from Wanganui you can still see deer fences.

>>1043959
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_model

>>1043914
We are part of nature dipshit.

-aguywhosenevergonehunting

>>1043914
>Wouldn't it be better if we just let nature take its course?
By that logic, you should've been a midnight snack for mommy.

>>1043959
And now they are back both on the mainland and on catalina.

Also, with respect to tribal warriors and all that, but don't romanticise the native americans

They had 200 years to organize a unified tribe to resist and push back the white man but they held onto trubal rivalries and continued to fight amoungst themselves to the bitter end.

Also, if indians developed wheels and later guns, you'd bet your ass they'd use them and rape the land in their industrial revolution if they were left alone.

>>1043930
I'm a big game hunter, I take trophies, cape buffalos are dicks, the money goes to animal conservation, fuck you.

The animals of the food belong to us, they are our stock, therefore we harvest them and we also make sure that they are as plentiful as possible.

Except then I can't eat meat dipshit

I don't like killing cute fuzzy little animals so I pick ones that have had good lives and you respect nature and the creatures.

>>1043914
There is literally nothing wrong with hunting for food. As long as you eat what you kill and not let the kill go to waste you have done nothing wrong.

Trophy hunters on the other hand should be executed.

>>1043920
>Many species have been driven to partial or total extinction by it
Hundreds if not not thousands of years ago prior to the modern understanding of conservation brought about in the early 1900s.

Sounds to me like you're just a hippie that won't listen to reason or believe scientists.

>>1043954
>The ethics of farming are worth consideration, but that is a different conversation.

It's really not. You have repeatedly appealed to farmed meat as an alternative to hunted meat, you can't just dismiss it now.

>>1043920
I know people on the Discover channel too. Think of the deer who are about to go extinct. I seen it on TV. It will cost thousand fifty dollars for every one.

>>1043915
Humans are a part of nature.

>>1043914
It's the only proper meat

>>1043938
Both.

Blinds provide cover from wind, rain, etc while also masking scent and noise, and obviously require less physical exertion than stalking.

There are parts of the US where stalking is difficult if not impossible due to extremely low visibility mixed with no ability to move quietly due to assloads of underbrush. There are other parts of the US where blind or stand hunting is pretty much useless because it's so open there's nothing to channel game to you.

>>1043914
OP, you've actually been pretty cool with rebuttals and stuff, so I'll be civilized here.

Humans are still animals, and are a part of nature. You are alive because of apex predators succeeding in the wild, and passing their genes to their ancestors, and to (You). The biggest difference now is that we have a fuck ton of people and advanced technology/agriculture, so most of us don't have to go /out/ any more.

The place I live in has hunters take out some deer, elk, etc., for food, which, if you see the average salary of our county ($26k usd), is well justified. We also have a massive turkey industry which provides lots of Thanksgiving tables with food. If we let deer, elk, or even rabbit get out of hand, turkey gets affected because farmers can't keep them out of their fields, and they could get diseases. Then we get even more poor, people die in car wrecks with deer here, bad shit happens, you don't get a Thanksgiving turkey, and I don't get any elk steak to eat for Christmas dinner.

Tl;dr:
Everything balances out because we're still in the ecosystem, and I have nothing else to do on my Friday off.

>>1043917
You are entirely clueless about hunters if you think only a small minority hunt for meat. Even a vast majority of "trophy hunters" are hunting for meat as well as a trophy.

I would argue that the environmental impacts of killing a wild animal for food are much smaller than raising livestock with oder techniques. Algal blooms, pesticide runoff, hormone treatment, inefficient food system (half of US food is thrown away), monoculture, methane emissions from literal mountains of shit, etc. These are all real things that you don't have to worry about when you kill your own meat.
Ethically, I think it is much more reasonable to quickly and personally kill a wild, healthy stag than to eat a cow born and raised on a chain in a factory.
Industrial agriculture is one of the primary causes of environmental damage in the modern world, and that is hurting a lot more wild animals than hunting does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ4lxhs_Snw

>>1043925
>>>you should just stay inside and don't do things

>>1043954
You would rather leave the land in it's natural state yet you are talking on a Ghandian pencil worshipping board on an electronic device that was created by disrupting the land in it's natural state.
>>>>>FUCK OFF

>>1043959
The natives happily planted corn and squash and beans here in North America, the regularly burnt the plains to renew it, and happily drove teams of animals off cliffs to feed their families, wasting plenty of meat.

>>1044392
Not to mention fucking illegal in most western countries to waste the meat. The chinks just cut bits off for "medicine"

>>1043914
That's it anons. I'm selling my guns and I'm gonna leave the world as God meant it to be. Instead of occasionally hunting deer and rabbit on my 20 acres I'm just gonna pay someone to clear cut it so I can plant corn. All the wildlife will be better this way. Then I'm gonna slowly buy lots from my neighbors and do the same.

Save the wildlife. Plant fields not bulletz

>>1043983
What if I'm not sure it's safe to eat.

Are you going to execute your wife and child next time they don't finish there hamburger

>>1043914
Is farming or building necessary

>>1043921
I knew you were European. In euro your cultural notion of hunting has always been an activity that is done by either a rich asshole or a scumbag poacher. It is not for the common man. Your description of trophy hunters and driving species to extinction also fit the euro bill. In america it is different. Not that we dont have rich assholes or scumbag poachers.

>>1043921
And here in America a combination fishing and small-game hunting license, which is good for a year, averages about $17. There are daily take limits and total possession limits on some species but not all, meaning theoretically for $17 and the cost of ammo you could eat nothing but wild game all year.

>>1045200
Oh, also forgot.

If you meet any of a fairly broad range of criteria (disabled, retarded, active duty military, tribal, under/over a certain age, etc) you don't need a license so hunting only costs whatever you shoot in ammo.

And some invasive species are completely unregulated and you don't need a license to hunt them either.

I guess this is the hunting thread so I'll ask my question
Do you think it's viable to use drones to scout animals?
I've seen discussions on the subject but I'd rather get the opinions of real hunters

>>1045214
Viable yes.

Illegal in most places also yes.

>>1045227
Why would they be illegal?

>>1045229
At least in the US and Canada they were specifically banned under hunting regulations because they were "unsporting".

>>1045231
I need to clarify this.

You cannot be in possession of a hunting implement (gun/bow/spear/atl atl/sling/slingshot/air rifle) and a drone at the same time, by Canadian law and in most US states. I think in Canada the same holds true, although IIRC they have different definitions of "in possession" (in the US it's on your person, I think but am not sure in Canada it's anywhere outside of your home).

You cannot use the drone to "harass" wildlife in the US (which in the US is defined as "the wildlife reacts to the presence/sound of the drone, regardless of distance or intent), regardless of whether or not it's a game species or in season. In the US this is a Federal rule under FAA guidelines and not part of the game code. I don't know if Canada has similar laws or not.

>>1043923
>>>1043920
>...and killing old bucks is beneficial for deer. It gives the spikers a chance to compete.

Give me your grandpa's address.

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I generally just shoot a deer, cut off the backstraps then pic related

Sooo much easier when you're shooting 5< a night with the electric dog

>>1045187
My old man is pretty much your average common man, he ans his 4 brothers have hunted their whole lives. Your statement might very well be true in central europe, but in northern europe its a bit different.

>>1043914
>>1043915
This is why animal husbandry and wildlife management are things now.

>>1043920
>they pay thousands of dollars for it.

I'm a hunter and a farmer. After the expense of the weapon and ammo I don't spend shit on anything else. I just walk out into the woods, shoot something, bring it home, and eat it. The same goes for fishing.

However, hunting and fishing are the biggest consumerist bullshit, just like every other bullshit thing humanity does. People think they need the "latest in modern technology" fads in order to find, kill, or catch their target species.

>>1043926
40kg is about right. I max 90lbs of meat per deer, but I normally shoot the young animals and does. They are tastier than the bucks. It is kind of funny though. All the buck hunters here say I'm lying when I tell them I get 90lbs of meat in the freezer from one deer. Mostly because there's been so much buck hunting pressure here t hat bucks are now much smaller than they were 30 years ago. Does are much larger now.

>>1045348
legs and backstrap of 2 deer will fit inside a backpack, fyi. You don't even need to string them up. Just lay it down on it side, cut back the skin, take everything from that side, flip it over and repeat. You don't even need to gut it that way.

>>1043926
Whitetail vary humongously in size. A live whitetail during hunting season can range from 60 to 380 pounds depending on age and region.

I live in the Midwest US. I can routinely expect around 120-130 pounds of meat off a whitetail shot locally because even the does will be 220-240lbs live, and I moved here from North Carolina where a live whitetail almost never got over 100lbs.

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This op is the hugest faggot ive seen yet on the 4chins.

>>1043954
In all aspects, hunting is, by far, morally superior to commercial farming. It's no contest.

As the apex predators of this planet it is our duty to kill and eat everything below us to sustain and maintain our own population.

>>1044108
This man speaks sense.

>>1045426
Tbh half the time I just take off the head

>>1043914
There is no division between man and nature. Man must obey his nature. Of course, anything that man does, be it hunting or not, is according to his nature.

>>1043930
>mfw Kentucky has elk

Lol fuck off bud

>>1043938
Small property sizes in some areas more or less prevent hunting any other way.

>>1043914
Humans are not detatched from nature.