So, /o/, why isn't LPG more common as a fuel in cars around

And then we wouldn't spend so much on gasoline. Do you even have to start endless wars for this shit

i thought it was hard on engines. it has no lubricity.
also the lpg forklifts seem to have short lives at work and start to burn oil after 10 years and lose power

>>17629484
>after 10 years
People shouldnt still drive 10 year old cars

>>17629484
I don't know, anon. People have LPG here in Poland and in fact if you have a decent installation from the current gen, the chances of this being harmful to the engine are rather low. Sure, there are engines that can handle it better and engines that handle it worse, but if a manufacturer was to design an engine strictly around using LPG then I suppose it wouldn't really be much of a problem. Besides engines these days are shit anyway.

you forgot
>losing power
>newer cars with direct injection, forced induction or engines with magnesium valves have problems with it
>smells even worse than diesel
>can't use underground garages because of possible leaks

It's fine to use for old carburetor shitboxes but using it with your 3.0L twinturbo supra would destroy more then do good.

>>17629491
well you shouldn't use it in a standard engine. the engine has to be designed for a high octane fuel or it will waste a lot of potential energy. google says it has about 110 octane aki.
so you need a somewhat high compression to even use it. and that makes for even more stress on the engine which wont see lubricity.

its a challenge to make a good engine for this fuel

>>17629495
>>losing power
Not true. New gen gives you the same power, besides, it's all about mapping. You can burn more and get more power or burn less and get less power. We're talking consumer applications here of course.

>>newer cars with direct injection, forced induction or engines with magnesium valves have problems with it
Forced induction isn't a problem. As for the rest, I don't know, but I'm guessing that DI can't be too bad if you actually have cleaner fuel.

>>smells even worse than diesel
Not a problem.

>>can't use underground garages because of possible leaks
This is weird. If you do proper check ups, as you should with your car, and have a decent installation, then this is not a problem.

>>17629502
It's not exactly true. Octane rating is between 90 and 120 actually. Not that it matters because most engines can easily handle up to 100. Many engines actually prefer higher octane rating but it's all changeable with mapping. Either way, you have oil for lubrication so in a relatively sealed engine this should not be a problem either.

There were engines designed for LPG from factory but for some reason they were dropped. My guess would be the unpopularity of LPG but then again, memehybrid stations are not popular either...

>>17629516
its not about handling octane, its about not wasting the octane. you need some decent compression ratio or forced induction to utilize this 120 octane fuel.

>>17629450
LPG, like gasoline, is a byproduct of petroleum refining. There isn't enough to sustain the entire global population driving on the stuff, so it's not an alternative to gasoline. It also has drawbacks in terms of packaging, since the tanks have to be a whole lot sturdier, and refueling is a bit more involved.

A lot of pickup trucks here in Europe run the stuff, and it's perfect - especially with a lot of the tax incentives LPG vehicles get as work vehicles. Makes a Ram 1500 have the running costs of a gasoline vehicle that with a fuel consumption of 15 km/l (35MPG).

>>17629484
If you build the engine to work with it (especially the valves), it's not a problem.

>>17629495
>less power
Nope. It does have a lower energy density, but so does E85. Because of that, you have to inject more fuel, which cools your intake charge, especially on boosted cars. Add to that the phase change (liquid -> gas) and the very high latent heat of vaporisation, and LPG can turn your intake charge subzero in n/a applications. It's like a super-E85: cheap, high octane, and great at cooling. Combine these, and you can make big power out of a booster LPG setup.

>DI or boosted
Can't comment on magnesium valves, but LPG works fine in boosted setups. Prins is still working on DI though.

>smells
Race gas is an aqcuired taste.

>>17629529
How is that wrong? If the fuel is dirt cheap then not using it to full potential is not really much of a problem now is it?

>>17629529
With modern VVT/VVl systems, you're effectively increasing/decreasing compression ratio. Combine that with a good forced induction system, and you can tune an engine to run optimally on both 85 and 120 octane fuels.

>>17629535
well it is because it is harming your engine to dry a dry fuel in it. so if you have to run it, you may as well run it well. also you will have more power from the higher compression.

so yes, it matters.

>>17629541
If you have a properly built engine, the relative lack of lubrication won't hurt it. Hell, it's probably cheaper to run some engines on LPG for 100K miles and replace it, than to run them on gasoline.

Taking advantage of the higher octane isn't always necessary. It is possible though, especially with how many parameters you can adjust in a modern ECU.

Read a story about a LPG Twingo
Total cost for the used Twingo and LPG conversion: 2500 EUR
It's still running after 80000 km

Possibly the most economic car on the road.
because LPG is around 60% cheaper than gasoline in Germany

I dont even know what lpg is nor did i ever see anything besides diesel or petrol in my country

>>17629488
Why not? I drive 23 and 37 year old cars, they're fine.

My family has been driving on LPG for the past 30 years.
Things you learn.
>It drinks 20% more gas when compared to petrol
>The car changes it sounds and it sounds shittier
>It's twice as cheap to run on LPG
>Engine lubrication is not a big factor even for cars over 330k km
>You either lose trunk space or a spare
>It's still cheaper than driving a diesel
>Smell is still better than diesel

>>17629557
2500 EUR is a fucking robbery, where I live it goes for around 1000 EUR for the real expensive ones. But you can do it yourself for around third of the price.

>>17629581
>2500 EUR is a fucking robbery
That includes the car and the conversion.

>>17629484
We have an old ass Yale forklift where I work that runs on LPG. Fun thing about that 323 engine, it can easily be converted back and forth between gasoline and LPG.

Very, very, and i mean very little maintenance involved on that engine, and I'll bet the hour meter has been rounded out a few times over the years. It was only the last few days I've taken to the task of cleaning the engine bay a little and I literally had to scrape the grease, grime and dirt from the head. There is about an inch of shit caked to the crankcase I've yet to remove.

Don't tell me an engine will have a short life just because it's running on LPG

>>17629583
Well, then it's fine, I guess. The problem in Germany is that there are not enough stations amd you need to plan your route. Im Eastern Europe it's pretty much on every gas station.

>>17629581
Romanian?

>>17629583
Wait. €2500 for a running car + conversion?
Here the car alone would be double at least.

>>17629598
You are a little bit north of the truth.

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>>17629450
>Why are no manufacturers making cars use LPG from factory?

ford and GM have been literally doing this for decades in australia

>>17629598
>Wait. €2500 for a running car + conversion?
Decent Twingos are 1000-1500 €
You can find 500€ Twingos but they are usually beyond reasonable repair

>>17629597
The good thing about LPG though is that esentially any LPG car will be a "hybrid" because if you run out of LPG, you can just fill up your tank with regular gasoline and run on it until you find an LPG refill station.

>>17629491
>. People have LPG here in Poland and in fact if you have a decent installation from the current gen

Stag controllers are fucking garbage, they are used because idiots don't know better

only poorfag countries run it like poland and its not surprising at all since fuel price is the same in entire europe while salary isnt

>>17630029
Are they? They seem to work well.

>>17630033
Regardless of that, LPG is the superior fuel.

>>17630033
We pay €0,20/L more than our neighbours though

Because the countries that actually use it are fucking poor

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>>17629450
>Why are no manufacturers making cars use LPG from factory?

There are many cars in Europe you can buy with factory LPG installation.

>>17630060
Literally because dude environment taxes lmao

>>17630079
And to pay for the infrastructure.

>>17630125
And to pay for the president's new yacht.

>>17630187
We don't have a president

>>17629450
LPG engines are available on cars and trucks from GM and Ford here in the US, not sure about Chrysler. There are also lots of medium-duty and buses available. It is popular in some areas with commercial fleets with their own facilities, but is almost non-existent among private owners. Most areas just don't have publicly available infrastructure to support it. Here in MN, there are a grand total of like 6 LP filling stations.