>>1488% of cars will be ev by 2040 >>ice is finished

>>17527937
Tesla is a massive scam.

They go through money like water, they lose money on the sale of every single car, they can't keep up with demand, they can't deliver product, their cars can't be repaired, EVs at the moment are totally unpractical for their target demographics because their target demographics doesn't have a garage to charge their car, people with the garage to charge the car need a bigger range because they're rural.

EVs will be a mirage until the battery problem is solved, and it won't be solved with a battery factory. Tesla is the Juicero of the car world.

>>17527937
It's absurd how the taxpayers get ripped off giving billions of dollars to Elon Musk. He is a rich man after having drawn out all those investment profits from Tesla. So are those other initial investors who collect their profits as "debits" on the accounting books of Tesla corporation.

>>17527937
Call me back when they get a car than can manage ~500 miles on one charge

>my city operates trams that are over 80 years old but still running on original motors

Why can't electric cars be the same?

>>17529376
>back then
"Johnson, we need to improve the fit and finish and increase reliability! How will we make money if our product isn't known for its longevity? Besides, the money we spend now will come back several-fold when the customer comes back after we've won them over!"
>now
"Johnson, we need to cut unit cost and increase volume! How will we make money if we're spending it all making a product we know won't be bought again if it's reliable? Besides, we've spent enough on marketing that the customer will just come back for another!"

>>17529376
>Why can't electric cars be the same?
That is called "overengineering". Doing this means investing greater money into the product than the estimated lifespan of the product and thus possibly having a product priced higher than it should be.

For sake of discusssion, let's say all customers (fleet, corp, private consumer, public consumer, gov't) are guaranteed to discard a car when it becomes 5 years old without exception. Then, engineering a car to have a lifespan of 10 years represents 5 years of wasted capacity. That capacity cost money in terms of extra materials, higher quality materials, environmental waste of excess materials, and wasted "fuel" capacity because the battery/motor had to carry all that excess weight needed to implement that extra robust quality.

If there was a magic way to create a product that would fail at the 5 years plus one day mark, then that would be optimum. But since there isn't magic, the industry would aim at a target of 7 years since the tail end of the statistical (gaussian) failure curve would have an acceptably low number of failures at the 5 year mark. That would be the compromise.

Some cars like Tesla have a unibody construction that is _financially_ risky to have a significant collision. The way the Tesla is put together, it's adhesive and welded unibody would need approximately 50K to 65K of repairs whereas the same collision would be 6K in the old chevrolet cavalier.

So, rather than having the motor last forever, there is still a lot of room for improvement in certain vehicles such as the Tesla which made compromises resulting in frightful repairs to the unibody (basically close to a replacement).

You know for a fact that electric cars are here to stay. You can literally by a shitbox and toss a good electric motor into is and diy. Electric motors have been apart of automotive history for a while anon. What are you even rambling about? You should be bitching about cng cars

>>17529376
are you in eastern europe?

>>17529376
>Why can't electric cars be the same?
Because they are in the private consumer market. Those other motors you're talking about are for the commercial market. They have to also meet public safety requirements under those common carrier safety laws.

>>17528540
He's not particularly loyal to the USA market or the taxpayers. His next gigafactory is in China. I assume he will make parts for the USA market at that the factory too.

>>17528628
>Call me back when they get a car than can manage ~500 miles on one charge
>Car comes out with ~500 miles
>Call me back when they get a car than can manage ~700 miles on one charge
>etc.

This could go on for some time.

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http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

>>17528330
Don't get me wrong. Tesla is a pretty cool company in theory, but yeah. Pretty big scam. Don't kid yourself. Electric sports cars sound pretty cool tho, just gotta work on ACTUALLY GETTING MORE THAN 1 LAP OUT OF THEM.

>>17530214
I don't think that's what he's complaining about. While EVs have been a thing, well, since the beginning (the first cars were EVs), he's arguing that ICE still has a lot of time left in the spotlight.

>>17533874
Come back when they """"actually"""" do that... When it's -35.

>>17534660
>THIS is how about 80% of teslafags act, too

>>17533874
>winter time
>car cant even get out of the driveway

>>17534812
>>17534825
Come back when IC cars reach their rated mileage while going the speed limit and in normal traffic.

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>>17534660
I looked that up on wayback machine and I wish I could go back int time and prevent myself from doing that

>>17534820
I know electric cars are the next big thing. I'm just waiting for the glorious salt when BMW, Ford, VW and whoever else say "ok, we make electric cars now" and blows the fucking shit out of Tesla in every way.

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>>17527937
Various Chinese companies continue to develop their own electric cars. If they no longer need tesla around, they will of course remove subsidies for tesla but continue subsidies and tax credits for the chinese companies. China has had different laws for its own companies for a long time.

>>17533874
Call me back when they get an electric car that doesn't need to ever be recharged

>>17535058
I know what you actually meant to say. You just said it clumsily which opens you up to retorts about ICE never needing to be refueled with gasoline. What you meant to say was that EV needs to be recharged far too often and the recharge locations are too few. AND each time recharge is needed, it takes quite a while unless you're willing to use ultrafast recharge which cooks the batteries and drastically decreases their full-capacity lifespan.

>>17534890

Maybe not full electric but lots of manufacturer's hybrid tech is already getting pretty damn impressive.

For instance I was bored and looked at the Toyota RAV4 Hybrid the other day- the Hybrid AWD system is neat as fuck- NO prop shaft! Front wheels are driven by the ICE with integrated electric motor assist, rear wheels are driven solely by electric motors. It's a damn slick package. Plus we're finding a lot of "first wave" hybrid batteries are encountering much less problems than we thought they would. MTBF being better than expected and/or issues being simple fixes.

I think electric is cool and has a shitload of potential but until we solve our energy issues in general (read: nuclear power with renewables as a supplement) it's not actually any net societal gain for the environment. Building Coal plants to power electrics is just crowdfunding giant, worse tailpipes.

>>17534660
The Oatmeal made some funny comics a long time ago but then he turned into a cock gobbling unfunny twat who thinks he's super clever.

>>17534789
>Pretty big scam. Don't kid yourself.
There's obviously a lot of profit because Elon Musk and other investors became rich from it. If there was no profit, then they would not be billionaires for the relatively few cars sold as compared to ICE. It's basically the taxpayers that paid over 50% of the costs of each car. The car buyer paid less than half.

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>>17535769
explain this then

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>>17530225
kek, Tatra trams were the first thing that came to mind when I read his post. They're seriously well-designed.

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>>17535782
>explain this then
Elon Musk clearly makea a profit.
Corporations do acounting magic to avoid taxes.

>>17529376

Super low powered unstressed engine meant to do one thing it whole life well also constantly being serviced.

>>17535782

Corporate magic, by pouring money back into there company they are declaring that money spent as a loss, which allows them to play the system and not be taxed heavily.

>>17527937
>1488%
hehehe

>>17535769
>Elon Musk and other investors became rich from it.
Musk became rich from Paypal, he's lost money on Tesla and Space X so far. The only people who have made money on Tesla are people that bought stock which was later driven up massively by speculation.

>>17534890
I just want a sports-intended EV. If the model S, weighing 5,000 pounds, can pull 0-60 in two seconds, then shaving that weight would only be better. At least maybe make it handle a bit better, maybe give it a higher top speed than 125.

>>17536431
>>17536602
Corporate magic doesn't explain the fact that they make zero profit per car sold in fact they lose 15000USD for every car they sell.

It's being propped up by investors as speculation that they will make money some time in the future, GM went bankrupt while they were making a profit higher than Tesla ever dreamed of making. At a sign of economic crisis coming Tesla will go bankrupt.

>>17535099
Fast recharging has been shown to not reduce the battery health of even small EV batteries like in the Leaf. What reduces battery life is extended exposure to high temps. Also the larger the batteries get, the less wear and heat they will suffer from when fast charging. Remember, fast chargers provide a max charge current. Larger battery means the same miles per hour of charge being added, but less percent. This means each cell is being charged slower because there are more of them. More cells at slower charge means less heat and less wear.

Even the tiny 24kwh Leaf battery doesnt suffer when you fast charge it. The probelms arise when you fast charge multiple times per day in the summer. With a larger battery that is active cooled, this is no longer a problem.

>>17535913
for some reason I always thought that trams were electrically powered by the wires on top of them

now i realize how silly that was

Didn't read the thread, but let me guess, 18 year old community college students have determined that Tesla is a scam to steal tax money, but they also are losing money somehow, and electric cars will never be viable until the cars go 1500mi per charge and cost $2300, also some whining about the fan base of course. Do I get a prize?