Is Aluminum and Iron the only 2 viable materials for making an

Titanium dissolves in gasoline...

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>>17421658
>Why not steel

>>17421658
Steel: really heavy compared to the others

Titanium: really expensive

They can use diamond but it's kinda expensive.

It smells like summer

>>17421673
Also hardness is a factor. Steel is strong because it's flexible.

Also thermal expansion is a factor. You need an engine to operate the same below freezing as well as 220 degrees Fahrenheit internally.

>>17421678
>he didn't do a Diamond-LS swap
lmaoing @ ur lief poorfag

>>17421673
Steel is just an iron alloy with carbon in it though

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The TVR Speed 12 had a steel engine block. Broke a 1000HP dyno with a naturally aspirated 7.7L V12.

>>17421658
plastic is fine

Pretty sure some engines have used magnesium, particularly air cooled ones.

>>17421773
..I'm thinking in particular of classic Beetles, but I'm sure theyre not alone.

>>17421668
I assume you're trolling, but the fact that lots of high performance engines (at least on bikes) use titanium valves suggests not.

>>17421758
Just imagine a billet of chromoly big enough to mill a V8 or I6 out of.

Holy shit.

>>17421758
>>17421796
>>17421695
>>17421678
>all this piss weak materials

lmao

http://gizmodo.com/scientists-finally-made-carbyne-a-material-stronger-tha-1770682640

>>17421794
Maybe titanium filled but not coated because it would dissolve

>>17421796
Billet blocks exist
http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/engine/hardcore-custom-engines-a-look-at-darts-billet-blocks-and-heads/

>>17421658
Note that most engine blocks use castable materials. This is for production purposes. Every engine block has been made for production, and casing is the cheapest option. This leaves easily castable materials as the prime choice (namely, iron, aluminum and magnesium).

Casting steel is a bitch, and doesn't yield much benefit over cast iron. The initial cost for casting and material processing would require you to make a million blocks before it was comparable to the cost of cast steel.

Machining a block would open up the avenue to other materials, if you could even get the billet large enough to machine, and requires technology that wasn't around until the 80's (namely precision CNC equipment), and would end up costing six or seven figures to equate out the labor.

Ti is a bitch to machine, and cost a fuck ton. Doubt we'll ever see a Ti block before we run out of oil.

>>17421819
Yeah, no shit they exist. But most are aluminum because its easy to get big ingots of aluminum for cheap. It's also easy to machine without going through tools like a mofo.

Something like 4140 steel is a different story.

>>17421673
The main problem with steel is how difficult it is to cast. Also, it has bad heat conductivity compared to grey iron. Some engine blocks have been made of steel, but mostly machined from a billet.


Titanium is too expensive for most applications, and also needs to be machined.

>>17421817

God damn you're retarded

>>17421834
*million blocks before it was comparable to the cost of cast iron.

Magnesium will be a thing soon, Honda is doing it on their motorcycle englines.

>>17421695
bitches don't know about my tungsten carbide block

>>17421817
Titanium is used in a lot of applications that need great heat or corrosion resistance; jet engines, exhaust valves, turbos...

>>17421865
You always talk to your betters that way?
>>17421883
You'll find even in jet engines there's planned obsolescence young one. They know they're going to dissolve when they fit them

>>17421883
I'm seriously curious / not sure if I'm being trolled as to whether gas corrodes it.

>>17421894
It does. Titanium is used when weight is more important than longevity which is why valves are filled (FILLED) with titanium when they need very low mass to avoid bouncing

>>17421882
>Having to deal with 20% shrinkage during sintering and then having to diamond grind all surfaces one thousandth at a time for a block that is brittle and cannot be tapped for studs

Shiggy

>>17421907
Not at the same time as titanium afaik

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>>17421773
>>17421879
You beat me to it. Magnesium is super light and has actually been a thing for a while. It is actually used in the BMW N52 (2004-2011). They have the added side effect of being flammable.

>>17421894
You are being trolled.

>>17421899
Valves are sometimes sodium filled, to increase heat transfer to the stem.

I mean, I know you are trolling, but at least try to do it professionally.

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>>17421924
magnesium is the best, lets build 90% of the car out of it
what could go wrong

>>17421924
Indeed, I know magnesium blocks are a thing since people will burn old beetle blocks at beach/desert parties and light up the night like the sun.

>>17421930
This is simply not true...

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>>17421938
>burn old beetle blocks

And yet those cars and engines are still common as fuck, how?

>>17421658
Daily reminder americans are utterly retarded and the correct word is 'aluminium'

>>17421673
>Titanium: really expensive

The connecting rods for my car are titanium and cost $600. Each. That's $3600 just for the fucking rods for this engine.

>>17421834
>Doubt we'll ever see a Ti block before we run out of oil.
fucking heresy

>>17422154
Because they're still cranking them out like crazy in 3rd world shitholes.

>>17421725
too bad it looks like shit

>>17422154
hitler did one thing right

>>17421658
why isnt an aluminum block with like 1/16th
tempered steel sleeves a thing? lightness of aluminum with the chamber support of hardened steel for superturbonos

>>17422601
>tempered steel
do you even know what that means?

>>17421658
How about a Car made entirely out of Tungsten?

>>17422610
yes it means that the steel was tempered

>>17422625
what is tempering?

>>17422630
In b4 some know it all fag who isn't >>17422625 thinks he's clever by answering

>>17422204
The piston heads in my engine are aluminum. Which kinda sucks in a NA diesel because if my egt gets too high I can melt them... Happens at about 1100°

>>17422238
No we are not, last bug was made in 2003

>>17421678
And kinda heavy. 1 gram of diamond weights like 15 grams

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>>17422908

>>17421924
>car catches on fire
>first responder thinks it's not made of memes
>sprays it with water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOpsB5n9DZ8
>he learns that water pisses it off

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>>17422908
>1 gram of diamonds weighs 15 grams

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>>17422908

>>17421658
A: titanium is very reactive with other metals and chemicals.
B: it's very brittle and would make for a shit engine block because of the extreme heating/cooling phases the blocks go through
c:It's very expensive.

>>17421924
Lots of race car rims are made of magnesium (OZ being the most famous manufacturer that I remember of) and they don't burn when cut through, hit or when scraping the tarmac at 150km/h without a tire out of a turn.
I remember seeing the picture of an OZ rim out of an LMP2 car that had an accident, basically the brake disc exploded and some shit got jammed between the rim and the brake caliper, scraping the hell out of the rim and splitting it in half along the circumference.
It was heavily coloured from the heat along the crack, but it didn't catch fire, and there was a lot of exposed metal.

I'm no engineer but I suppose they add stuff in the mix to make it not flammable.

>>17422513
are you high?

>>17423137
It's super fucking hard to ignite magnesium. Small particulates of anything combust, see flour, water in hot oil, etc.

You need to get magnesium very hot, and it dissipates heat well, to get it to combust, so you're pretty much limited to tiny shavings or dust. You're not going to ignite a large block of magnesium under any realistic circumstance.

>>17423153
>retarded headlights
>inflated wide body look
>worst spoiler

I think you are high mr.

>>17422204
What engine?

>>17422621
Why not depleted uranium?

magnesium has been a thing since cars existed lol.
it's just expensive. karts have mag hubs and wheels.

>>17421987
Still waiting to see some source, trollbuddy.

>>17422684
>NA diesel
How would you go about getting them high, short of turbocharging?

>>17423137
I think magnesium only combusts in high concentrations of oxygen. It is like titanium; highly resistant to oxidation at normal concentration of oxygen, but when in a high concentration...it simply oxidizes very violently.

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>>17421764
Second word? Jews maybe?

>>17422908
but its a sacrifice i'd be willing to make for the hardest metal known to man

RB26 N1 blocks are steel instead of regular cast iron.

>>17422908
But can it melt steel beams?

>>17422513
post a selfie and let's see if you look like shit as well.

why an entire fucking block? just make all wearable parts out of titanium. like cylinders, valve guides, crank bearings ect...

isn't iron and steel the same thing?

>>17423883
no
iron is the base element
steel is an alloy made from iron and carbon and or other material

>steel
fuck loads more expensive than iron with little to no benefits for the application
>titanium
awful thermal conductivity, expensive as fuck, and harder to machine
>magnesium
this is a thing. Mg-Aluminium alloys are used in BMW N5X blocks. Very light with one of the best specific elastic moduli of any metals.
Downside is that Mg is very reactive and will corrode in air and catch fire if ignited. This is not ideal for an engine block. Cylinder liners and an external coating of a different metal must be used. Also more expensive than Al.

>>17423711
Getting them high in temp? Excess fuel, and unburnt fuel. When you see trucks blowing dark smoke that is all unburnt fuel, which raises exhaust temp and done long enough will kill the motor. Turbo charging actually cools down the exhaust and stuff by quite a bit because it means that more fuel can be burnt

>>17423883
steel is made from iron.

usually when they say iron they mean cast or pig iron which have a higher carbon content i think.

steel usually means carbon or stainless steel, among other things, which i think have a lower carbon component.

>>17423966
would low thermal conductivity necessarily be a bad thing for a block? i know that for the water cooling system to work the thermal energy needs to be able to pass through certain interior walls in the block, but with the added strength that titanium provides, couldnt those walls be a lot thinner to allow heat to pass through more quickly?

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>>17422908

>>17421709
all those retards here, its depressing

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https://www.topgear.com/car-news/detroit-motor-show/meet-fords-carbon-fibre-ecoboost-engine

Carbon Fibre

>>17423999
>>17423883
Yeah, steel in all it's different types is iron with a specific carbon and alloying metal content. Another factor in steel (and other metals) characteristics is how it's heated and cooled and the environment is which that takes place during or after production.

>>17424024
Even the pic you posted says it has an Aluminum block

>>17421658
Steel is expensive compared to iron and offers no benefits except in specific components, i.e. cylinder walls, bearings. Titanium is several times more expensive, heavier than aluminum, and notoriously difficult to work.

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>>17421658
Why not wood?

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My brother wants to build a propane V6 engine out of PVC.

>mfw

Man a lot of you guys are fucking morons. This is a pretty basic question and people are rambling off the most nonsensical answers. It makes me wonder if every thread on 4chan is like this but I just don't know enough about the subject matter to call them on their bullshit

Aluminum is easily castable, cheap, and most importantly has good thermal properties. Light, resistant to corrosion, etc....

Steel isn't practical. Iron is ok in some heavier duty applications.

My only complaint with aluminum is that it's a fucking bitch to weld if something breaks. My motorcycle engine has these mounts that are part of the original aluminum cast and you're FUCKED if that thing snaps off

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>>17422908

>>17424267
>Steel isn't practical
OP seems to grasp this, he asked why

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>>17424255
>tumblr filename
>gif that is literally two frames

>>17424006
I'd imagine it's more of an issue because your block temperature will be more inhomogenous. This creates lots thermal stress regions.

>>17422204
Post NSX

>>17423695
A weapon to surpass Metal Gear!!!

>>17423771
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_RB_engine
>All RB engines have belt-driven cams and a cast iron block.

>>17424006
this is a misconception.
titanium has better specific values than steel
this means that its strength and modulus per unit weight is better.
titanium is about half as dense. Its young's modulus and yield/ut strengths are less than that of steel.

Therefore an engine block made from titanium would need to have more material to retain the same strength, however it will be marginally lighter.

thermal conductivity is a function of thickness and therefore since the walls of the block would be even thicker, the thermal conductivity issue would be magnified even more.

IIRC the thermal conductivity of titanium is around 5x worse than that of steel.

>>17424255
I'm sure it'd work for a bit before the pistons and cylinder bores would be melted into a single lump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdW1t8r8qYc

>>17421658
>steel
Low strength to weight ratio when cast, gasoline is corrosive to most alloys, low thermal efficiency for the application. Also, pigfat.

>titanium
Difficult and insanely expensive to cast and machine

You can make engines out of magnesium or at the very least, mag-based alloys (check, rz500)
you can make engines out of titanium (no it does not dissolve on gas)
you can make engines out of any metal, and some engine parts are made of molybdenum on race engines (like con rods)
the question is, how much are you willing to pay for something that makes almost no difference, since its not an extreme application
(Addendum, ceramic is also taking off for engines, due to extremely low wear and light weight. Although if you Fuck up it becomes dust)

>>17425105
ceramic thermal coatings you mean?
MMCs are beginning to be used however for con-rods

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>>17421658
>Not having a depleted uranium block

laughinggulfwarvets.jpg

>>17425116
Not only coatings, but parts completely out of ceramics. It is still being researched, so I wouldn't really expect anything in the next decade
>>17425118
>HIGHER DENSITY THAN LEAD
pretty strong tho

>>17425128
just sounds like a fuck awful idea desu

>>17425140
It is a bit
You need extremely high precision, but it never fucking wears. It pretty much solved the wankel apex seal problem, but if it misfired it becomes dust.
Lasts a lifetime, and does not expand under heat, so there is quite a lot of compression blow-by on cold engines due to the housing being made of iron

>>17425153
I can't imagine cyclically loading ceramics does them any good. they won't wear from friction/abrasion but I can't remember about how resistant they are to fatigue.
I also figure that a lower elastic modulus is beneficial in prolonging life.

>>17421924

dude
magnesium is used in harbor freight pot-metal engines for 12 gallon air compressors

>>17425168
It doesn't do any good to anything, really, but they seem to have a longer lifespan and higher efficiency at high temos nonethless
Don't think it'll happen for daily beaters tho, given that metals have less blowby at low temps.

>>17425168
>>17425186
*temps goddammit I need to get new glasses
Blind as a goddamn bat

>>17422601
Most aluminum blocks do in fact have pressed-in iron cylinder sleeves. Some others have the actual raw aluminium bore surface induction-hardened, but these usually won't survive an overbore.

>>17422931
>>17423064
>>17423088
stay new faggots

>>17421673
steel is heavy compared to iron??? lol no.

>>17422601
Virtually all aluminum blocks have pressed in iron sleeves.

>>17423711
Magnesium oxidises very quicly in open air. Doesnt catch alight at room temp but it forms a layer of oxidation pretty rapidly. (which is more flammable than magnesium itself)

The reason the magnesium wheels probably didnt catch fire is due to the actual magnesium content. Magnesium is very soft, similar to aluminium it would be difficult to make a wheel from pure magnesium or aluminium without adding other metals to the mix. a high magnesium content wheel or other car part will catch fire (as history has shown)

>>17424245
hard to cool.
also would absorb oil unless you coat the inside with some kind of resin (that would crack because wood warps a lot).

lots of warping and absorbent properties renders wood unusable. but it would be fun to try build one. i knw someone who made wooden pistons.

>Metal engines
Fuck off boomers we're in the future.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_automotive_engine

You guys realize engine blocks aren't made of pure iron, but of steel, right?
Or are you all this retarded?

>>17425609
yes, everyone knows that it's not pure unalloyed iron.
everyone knows that steel is alloyed iron.
people are referring to higher-carbon steels as 'steel' for namesake.

r u dumb?

>>17425609
sorry m8, I stand corrected:
>>17425626

>>17425609
They're cast iron, not steel. Cast iron isn't pure iron though, it has very high carbon content compared to steel.

>>17424245
I made one, once.
Wooden head
Wooden block
Wooden crank
Wooden valves and cams.
Wood'n' go.

>>17425788
ideally, engine blocks should be made of martensite, precipitation hardened with copper

>>17425815
wew, can't imagine quenching an engine casting.

or go full retard and make it air hardening steel

>>17425815
>>17425828
Flash bainite

>>17425815
>martensite
Why the whole block and not just the sleeves?

>>17426021
Hardened steel is also stronger

>>17422154
well, it IS (as in current standing, not currently being produced) the most manufactured car in the world

>>17421658
> Titanium
Expensive and soft.
> Steel
Cast iron is better at compression, which is what engines take.

>>17421709
And so is cast iron, but that just has more carbon than steel.

>>17423153
The designer definitely was.

>>17423158
Not saying it'll happen in an accident, but people do burn mag engine blocks for shits and giggles. Dunno how they get them going.

>>17424245
some 100 years in the past wood has been used as a sleeve bearing

>>17426452
-your mom

>>17425609
Steel: Less than 1.67% carbon content
"cast Iron" (like grey iron): More than 1.67% carbon content.

Yes, iron-carbon alloys with higher carbon content are called iron.