You have literally 3 seconds to defend timing belts, especially

>>17020982
Chains break too
T. 240sx owner

Belts use less power which is why belt motors win all the races.

Does anybody use timing belts anymore? Every shitbox has a chain these days. I don't know why belts were ever a thing to begin with, though.

>>17021023
i think the 3800SC had a lot of belts.

Timing gears anyone?

>>17021023
Honda J series
They were for NVH, though modern chain engines are just as good

okay. chains are better suited for low speed where you're not worried about rotational wobble robbing power from the system.

this is a reciprocating engine. we go light.

>>17021023
It doesn't fucking matter what you use. One needs to be replaced at 100k while the other at 200k. It's a huge pain in the ass no matter how you approach it. Also, a fucked chain tensioner makes a lot of noise but the belt is silent in comparison.

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>>17020982
>Shit that manufacturers need to stop doing

Fucking stupid ways to innovate gear shifts, example in pic is a new RAM 1500 pickup truck. Chrysler doing this, Ford just started doing this again, I don't know about GM or their cars.

>>17021023
Not that I know of

they used to use them because they were quieter in pushrod engines and cars with little sound deadening.

>>17021049
Well to be fair, there really is no need to have a gear stick in an automatic car

>>17020982
>BELTS ARE BETTER FOR FAST REVVING SON

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>>17021049
For an automatic I actually quite like this, it frees up a metric cunt load of space for the center console. I still prefer stick, but this just makes sense where applicable.

>>17020982
>Not using gear driven cams

>>17021146
I drive a new ram daily. A year and I'm still not liking it. It's not comfortable. Only thing I don't like about the truck though.

>>17020982
The entire reason for belts in the first place was noise. Belts were simply quieter than chains. This is why retards used to always say GM engines never sounded as "refined" as Japanese engines.
But Chains are superior.
The only company I can think of that still uses belts is Subaru, and that's only on the STI. Everything else uses a timing chain.

>>17021038
3800 had a timing chain you retard. There isn't a single pushrod engine that ever used timing belts.

>>17021158
Huh, I liked it when I drove my cousin's ram with it. To each their own I guess.

>>17021175
oh shit my bad.

>>17021038
>t. 3400 shill strikes again with blatant lies

>>17020982
less friction, less mass, perfectly fine if you stick to a maintenance schedule

that said my car has a chain

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>>17021146
Gear driven cams so sexy

>>17021183
No you dipshit. I'm the 3400 shill. In order to properly hate the 3800, I had to learn about it.

>>17021220
No trolling, but why is the 3400 better than the 3800? They all like to blow intake gaskets

>>17021049
I'm a big fan of gear-select dials in autos. The only better option would be buttons.

>>17021049
how come nobody bitches about push button electronic lockers

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>>17021241
So do the 3800s. I've done enough intake gaskets on the 3800 to know it's a common problem on them too.
The only reason the 3800 gets any attention, at all, is because it has factory boost.
It has an iron block, iron head configuration that's heavy as fuck. It has a 90* V angle requiring a balance shaft.
The 3800 is also a cut down Buick V8. This left it with an extremely weird firing order that led to rough running. They changed the firing order around 1977/1978 to make it smoother, but it's still a retarded firing order (1-6-5-4-3-2). The cylinder heads flow like absolute shit too so it doesn't make enough power to justify the displacement. The fucker NEEDED a supercharger to hit 240 HP.

The 3400 on the other hand is part of the 60* V6 engine family. It was designed as a V6 from the start. The easy-to-remember firing order (1-2-3-4-5-6) is also used on the Nissan VQ and VR engines. The heads outflow the 3800's. As a bonus, the heads are aluminum and feature splayed valves for more efficient combustion. The 60* V angle also means the engine is perfectly balanced internally meaning no power-robbing balance shaft.

While you can get aluminum heads for the 3800 aftermarket, they don't have splayed valves and still have a hard time outflowing a ported 3400 head.

If you want a pushrod GM V6 project to tune and make power with, get one of the 60* V6 engines.
If you just want a reliable V6 that can take a lot of abuse and don't want to modify, I have no problem recommending the 3800.

>>17020982
timing gear masterrace

>>17021197
this just seems fucking pointless. so much extra mass to turn.

>>17021049
Literally nothing wrong with that. I'd much prefer that actually. It's an auto dude.

>>17021304
Runs like a Swiss watch tho

>>17021316
so does every car already

>>17021298
That's what I meant by "they all", both the 3400 and the 3800, I wasn't clear in how I phrased that.

But thanks for the in depth answer. I always just accepted the praise the 3800 got in the Ward's 10 best engines list at face value.

>>17021304
reliability

>>17020982
I like a regular interval so you know it needs to be done. No matter what. Chains can sneak up on you, especially if the oil hasn't been changed religiously. Timing belt are also designed to be replaced so they thought about that when designing the car/engine bay. Timing chains aren't always like that. (looking at you BMW and Audi)

>>17021325
>That's what I meant by "they all", both the 3400 and the 3800, I wasn't clear in how I phrased that.
meh. Use aftermarket fel pro gaskets when it happens and it won't happen again.

>>17021298

My nigga, Stolen Recaros speaks the truth

Timing belts are still for pussies

FYI I'm the guy with the turbocharged Monte Carlo SS (well formally) and I'll be getting that bitch back up with a T04 equivalent this summer.

>>17021371
>still wasting time with a 3800
3900 swap when?

>>17021339
Yeah BMWs N47 diesel engine mounted the timing chain at the back of the engine, oh and the N47 likes to break its timing chains.

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>>17020982

Because I make more money selling and replacing belts as PM than I do warranty-ing chains when they stretch and break.

>>17021377

Fuck that, I already have ported heads and built bottom end. If it didn't come with the 3800 I would have considered the 3900, the bitch sibling 3500 was an easy swap for my brother's impala

>>17021393
fair enough. 3900 when you finally blow the 3800?

>>17021401

If I do /o/ will be the first to know

I need a new HPTuners interface though, unless the 3900 will run with a 3400 wiring harness and is tunable with a Powertuner.

Haven't looked into it

>>17021424
All the 60* V6's are backwards compatible. I've seen 3500s running off OBD1. I have no doubt a 3400 harness will work.
The problem with the 3900 will be removing the VVT system, but that shouldn't be TOO hard, and I think WOT-Tech could help you there.
https://wot-tech.com/index.php

>>17021440

Then it should be easy enough, probably just swap in a different intake manifold and keep the turbo. All I would need is an LS Monte / base impala wiring harness

Fuck it, hijacking this thread. My liberty might need a new engine soon and I was thinking an LS because they make a cheap transmission adapter to retain my 6 speed, but, I'll look at a 3900 for shits

>chains

Enjoy your lolcantrev

>>17021464
>All I would need is an LS Monte / base impala wiring harness
You might also need the subframe for the base Monte, if not the mounts. The 60* engines used different mounts IIRC

>>17021472
what do you mean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeps18chvC0

>>17021472

>he doesn't like a flat torque curve

Any properly balanced engine can rev, comrade

>>17021486

Mounts are the same, I went from a damaged LQ1 to a 3800 in my 95 Z34 and it was easy as fuck.

>>17021496
>8500

Lolcantrev

>>17021498
(Im trolling chainfgs)

>>17021512
>tfw have a damaged LQ1 in a 95 Monte Z34 in my garage
>don't want to ruin it with 3800

BTW, you'll at the very least need new turbo headers for the 3900. Much narrower engine

>>17021528

Ported stock manifolds have always served me well, a modified crossover is usually the biggest component needed

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>>17021498
>tfw you see things you've said a week ago in past threads being parroted

There might still be hope for you cocksuckers yet.

>>17021574

I've taken my balanced 3800 to over 7000 RPM anything is possible, anon

>>17020982
if a timing chain breaks, it could break other things too.

>>17021590
Oh you're entirely correct- I have a 468 V8 that comfortably spins to 8 grand, I believe you. I just had a conversation the other week where it was cluing some cocksucker into the ideas of inertia and imbalance/valvetrain what limits upper RPM ceiling. I wasn't being disparaging.

>>17021039
yes please

>>17021049
>>17021146
It seems like it would be awkward to do the equivalent of putting a normal (stick-like) gear selector into reverse until you back out to where you need to, then just whack it down to D with your wrist to start moving forward.

>>17021608

I usually hang out on /pol/ but, tonight felt like an /o/ night

Some assholes on here are just clueless and I keep forgetting my tripcode

Also, I want to hear that 468, I'm sure it sounds like ecstasy

>>17021625
>/pol/

Oh shit- After you hear this, put in a good word with the president for me, would you? I'm one of the good Mexicans, I swear, don't catapult me over the wall. I don't like tripping, personally.

>>>/wsg/1639238

>>17021640

I'm half Dominican, the trick is stay indoors so your skin lightens up and the cops think your italian

>>17021039
I had a 78 Camaro with a 350 V8 that used a timing gear set. Timing gears make an awesome as hell whine that sounds like a super charger.

Not to mention that shit ran forever, I think it had close to 300,000 Miles on it before I tore it down and rebuilt it.

Definitely miss timing gear sets, that shit was great.

>>17021592
The only time chains break are when they get starved of fucking oil due to faggot normies who dont take care of their vehicles.

I had a Jeep 4.0 motor with 200,000+ miles on it that I rebuilt and the timing chain had ZERO slack in it because the owner made sure to keep his engine well oiled.

You can't get that kind performance out of a fucking shitty belt setup. Belts fail prematurely more often than chains do.

Chains however can stretch in excessive heat saturation condition but that rarely results in catastrophic failure even if its an interference motor.

>>17021688

I wish the 4.0 was updated with DOHC, VVT and DI it would be an indestructible monster

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>either of those
>Not having timing gears
It's like you don't like longevity

>>17021688
I needed a new chain at 30,000km. On a brand new car.

2006 Holden VE commodore

Shit tier mechanical

Wife's 2005 ford still running strong on original chain at 260,000km

>>17021298

3400 had worse intake issues. It was so bad they had to change up the design mid model year. Also had rocker stud issues.

>>17021889

Sounds like you got a Friday car

>>17021023
My metro has a belt. Kek. Takes 20 mins to replace.
>>godmobile

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>>17021868

I've got a bit of column a, a bit of column b.

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>>17021649
>>17021640
>Drumpftards from /pol/ are shitskins

Makes you think

>>17021170
Don't forget cost. Belts don't need sealed covers or lubrication. Belts are dirt cheap for the manufacturer. Belts are the easy, lazy design solution.

>>17021023
The Ford 1.0L has a belt.

>>17021649
kek

>3/4 yuro white
>1/4 native american
>I look like a savage
>blacks think im white
>whites think im mexican
>mexicans think im italian or from southern california

Anyone have any idea why mexicans think that non-spanish speaking mexicans come from california? Ive been asked several times if I speak spanish and then been asked if Im from southern california when I say no.

>>17022141
I bet your redline is higher than mine. I'm mechanically limited to 3200 rpm lol

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>>17020982
Because inevitably some fuckhead will turn it into some utter bullshit like pic related and put it at the back of the engine. Then the guides and tensioners break because lol VAG plastic and the engine has to be pulled to fix it.

Not like having to take off the whole front end every ~50k miles is fun, but at least that shit can be serviced.

Neither you obsolete dinosaurs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510

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>>17020982
>2017
>still discussing belts and chains like some pleb

A timing belt setup, done correctly, takes like thirty minutes to do with a water pump at the same time during a service.

However, Nissan stopped making the CA18DET and went to the SR20DET and so I have no idea why you would belts instead of chains.

>>17020982
Timing belts are easier and cheaper to replace.

>>17021175
I recall some generator I rebuilt using a belt.

>>17023017

Yeah man, 4500.

>>17020982
a big heavy chain slows down throttle response

>>17024380

I found my throttle response dropped really sharply when I broke my timing belt.

>>17021049
You are now aware that the push button automatic and dial pre-dated the lever selectors.

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>>17025842
>doesnt maintain car
>belt breaks
>complain

So you going to complain when you dont maintain your timing chain shitbox which proceeds the chain getting loose and tearing all kinds of shit up

>>17025877

Easy now pooflips, no need to project so hard.

It's an RD28T in a Patrol that copped a log through the radiator, through the timing belt cover and into the tensioner bearing.

And no, I didn't maintain my timing chain shitbox SBC and yet when it was stripped down, nil slack.

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whatever happened to push rods?

beats chain, and belt.

sure they bend over time but they are allot easier to replace then both belt & chain.

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>>17025948
OHV engines use timing chains mostly.

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>>17025964
so are you saying the cams are driven by chain and then it goes to push rods?

>>17025984

Often, yes.

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>>17025984
Yes, that's how a pushrod engine works.

You never hear of them snapping because by the time the chain is worn out enough to snap it'll have jumped a tooth on the timing gears and the engine will stop running.

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>>17026014
why not like this? its simpler, less moving parts

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>>17026033
Because

>>17026036
that has a chain, its WORSE than the shaft driven one i posted

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>>17026014
no.

being just a lawn mower mechanic, all ohv cams are directly driven by the crankshaft.

thought because shit's so simple they did the same on cars. guess i'm wrong..

>>17026036
Reminder the one on the left can make over 3000hp on the stock block, while the 302 breaks at 500

Pushcucks cant compete

>>17026041
Yes but it's DOHC.

>>17026048
>being just a lawn mower mechanic, all ohv cams are directly driven by the crankshaft.
m8

>>17026050
>3000hp
Cute, Pushrods are used in Top Fuel though.

>>17026053
m8 what?

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sidevalve reporting in.

>>17026060
m8, come on bro.

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>>17026078

>>17023539
They are not easier unless its a fucking Geo.

>>17021810
>Make 4.0 more complicated
>Somehow thinks it will be more reliable

Nigger are you high!?

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> not having gear driven timing

Why even bother? Chains and belts should both be in the trash.

>>17026053
shaft driven>gear>chains

>>17021094
>>17021146
>>17021315
>>17021049
>this is a good idea
>car's battery dies
>can't shift it into neutral and move the fucking car because lol electronic shifting

>>17020982
The whole thing about timing belts ruining interference engines is a fucking meme.

I had a timing belt snap on a D17 engine, replaced it, engine ran fine. Dropped a boroscope, saw now valve impact on any cylinder.