Has any sports car made less progress than the WRX? Every generation

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>>16926290
>WRX
>Sports car

>>16926290
>slight hp gain
Not even. Its just copy/paste into a new body.
Its a solid car, but damn subaru is getting complacent

>>16926305
New body? That's a 2003 Honda Civic.

>>16926305
Subaru will stop selling them when vape Lord's stop buying them. They have no reason to improve the car.

>>16926309
No, it's a Toyota Corolla with a body kit

>>16926305
Subaru has been out of the game for a while and Mitsubishi is making SUVs now. The days of the JDM AWD trend in the 90s seem to be over (with the exception of the GTR).

my bugeye with an ej207 smokes new stis already youre right. The biggest improvement in the cars is refinement. Theyre not sports cars they are sport sedans. the new wrx's and stis are slower but are a whole lot better to live with on a day to day basis. They arent appealing to the boy racer anymore they have to appeal to a mass market.

>>16926322
It might as well be

>>16926315
Or when another manufacturer comes out with a competitor in its specific niche (Turbo AWD Sport Compacts).

Only Mitsubishi and Ford really tried. The former had the Lancer Ralliart and made it automatic only while pricing it $4-5000 more than a WRX (and the whole time Mitsubishi seemed like it was in danger of bankruptcy).

Ford is trying with the Focus RS, but the STi has better availability and marketing/image.

It doesn't have to get better. Subaru just needs to keep pumping out boy-racers with muh hood scoop and muh ginormous spoiler. Jap 19 year olds and retarded kids who mommy didn't give enough play time with their Matchbox cars will snap them up.

>>16926323
What are you taking about? Subaru sells more WRXs than ever

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>>16926315
>they have no reason to improve the car

>>16926346
but it's not because they're good cars, it's because they have a loyal crowd of the vape/boy racers who basically want a mustang but live in denver/ohio/[insert place where it snows].

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>>16926361
>More expensive
>Overheats on track
>Mostly fwd
>"Drift mode"
>Ford

>>16926324
They're bone stock while you're likely running a larger full exhaust and a dyno tune putting you at close to 270-300whp.

Stock 2015+ STis are making 250-260whp. And they're 100-200lbs heavier than your car. So its not really surprising.

>>16926379
what makes them bad cars

they have their niche simple as that until another manufacturer makes another Turbo AWD sport compact that comes close to selling as well nothing will happen

>>16926379
What is your point?

I think the new WRX is an improvement.

You have to realize that owners of the older generations are no longer boy-racer vape lords and they want something more mature.

Enter the new WRX. It's more subtle, a new engine (finally) that has great mid-range torque and a better powerband.

It's something the previous owner of a 500hp STI with slammed coilovers, loud exhaust, and roll cage buys when he wants to mature a little, but still likes the subaru recipe.

I wouldn't mind owning one as a daily with some simple bolt-ons, tune, and maybe some mild lowering springs with a good spring-rate.

>>16926399
>>16926403

but with the Lancer Evo gone the WRX has literally no competition and an entire niche pretty much to themselves. Let's be honest the reason JDM went mainstream in the first place was FF. Now FF is basically just
>muh lambo
>muh bugatti
>muh tank
>muh airplane
>muh nuclear submarine

Now the whole JDM mainstream thing has kind of died down and those cars aren't selling, but the WRX created its own crowd which is why it's selling as opposed to Mitsubishi. There's nothing wrong with it, but I just feel like Subaru is no longer what it used to be.

>>16926448
>No competition
What do you call the Focus RS? They literally made a better Evo/STI on their first attempt in America.

>>16926461
the WRX is no longer a hatch. Focus RS competes more with Golf R and the new Civic Type R.

>>16926461
>They literally made a better Evo/STI on their first attempt in America.
see here>>16926395

>>16926461
Except it has next to no brand recognition, while the Evo/STi has had the last 15+ years to build that up (longer if you count the 1990s Tuner Scene + Gran Turismo 1/2 for the PS1)

Most normies could point out a Evo/STi and recognize it's something special, while few could differentiate a Focus RS from a regular Focus. Hell, most people don't even know Ford has had a longer and more in-depth rally history than both Subaru and Mitsubishi.

Same reason why Honda sold 5 Civic Sis for every Ford Focus/Fiesta ST car in the last 4 years.

>>16926335
Doesn't help that ford dealerships hire shitstains to promote their products

>>16926502

I mean so does Audi (which leaked into VW once Audi decided to focus on Le mans).

the golf r and focus rs and lancia [fiat 500 rip off eo-shitbox] have more rally history than evo/sti too

>>16926479
Not my problem that Subaru decided to not offer a hatch in the US. I kind of resent them for that actually.

>>16926480
Fair points., but the Evo/STI are sitting close to $40k, Overheating could probably be fixed with proper mods if you really wanted to track it (which you should be doing to any car at that point). Doesn't the Evo have a FWD biased as well? Don't really care about the drift-mode.

>>16926502
I don't really care for "recognition" or if someone can "recognize" a fast car when they see one (I own a MazdaSpeed3 after all. Most people don't even realize that Mazda made a Speed version of their regular 3). Oh, and I'd take a FiST/FoST over a Civic SI any day of the week. Again, Ignorance of others doesn't affect my car-buying decisions.

>>16926379
Apple rake in billions upon billions every year. Apple doesn't make good products. It makes "good" products.

Why would Subaru want to make good products when it can make "good" products and make shit tons.

>>16926445
This.
Despite being bigger and weighing more, the car has improved (torque vectoring, suspension, 6MT) regardless of the naysaying. I'd still prefer a GC8

>>16926533
sit is not 40k lmao, you can get it for 35.5k even with the worst bartering skill

>>16926533
Focus RS is better on paper. STi is better in real life

>>16926590
cunningly written on thermal paper so that when it overheats nobody can contradict the stats

>>16926533

>I don't really care for "recognition"
>Ignorance of others doesn't affect my car-buying decisions

And that's why cars get discontinued due to poor sales.

>>16926533
I've haven't seen anyone come up with a solution to the rear axle overheating issue (its the RDU).
>>16926603
>nicememe.jpg

>>16926539
>There's nothing wrong with it, but I just feel like Subaru is no longer what it used to be.

I'm the guy who said this, anon, I agree with you

>>16926290
They improved the rear suspension when they went from the gdb model to the hatch, and the 6 speed solved the glass gearbox issue, but the entire series of cars suffered from the 100-250kg weight gain between the gc8 and gdb. If they can get the weight back down to the 1270kg of the original, it might regain some of its soul.

>>16926621
Survival of the fittest, brother. I care about the technical bits of a car. Not the swoopy lines, or ad campaigns. Make a good car and i'll buy it. Shit, i've owned 24 in my life so far. If a car is genuinely good, I'll give it a go.

>>16926631
A simple oil-cooler should remedy the situation. You see them on the market for many other vehicles with a rear axle. I can't imagine aftermarket companies not supply a an easy fix for a serious problem.

>>16926631
The overheating issue is due to the fact that the clutch packs are fucking TINY. If you wanted to solve the issue you would need bigger transmission clutches which would likely mean reshaping/cutting the shell, or replacing it with a different system altogether.

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>>16926660
Mishimoto is the (only) one, but it's working out great so far, wish this wasn't a problem at stock though.
>>16926681
Thanks for confirming about the clutch packs, I didn't know what was specifically causing it, mountune makes a stage one gearbox that is as much as a fucking complete turbo kit.
You're right, might as well go to another system unless you're investing in the high-end.

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>>16926658
Subaru doesn't get enough credit though for avoiding weight gain from 2002 (3150lbs) to 2015 (3300lbs). 150lbs isn't a lot when the car got physically larger, even safer/stiffer, curtain/side airbags, and larger brakes/stronger transmission.

Almost all of the weight gain from the GC8 to the GDB chassis was in passive safety/rigidity improvements. The Impreza went from being a tin can that'd kill you in if you got t-boned by anything bigger than a Miata/Civic to being able to take 100mph tree-wrappings and have the driver walk away after the local fire department broke their jaws of life trying to rip the car open (pic related, taken in 2008 of a '04 WRX STi's B-Pillar failing to be cut by the Orangeburg NY Fire Dept)

http://www.boronextrication.com/2009/11/04/subaru-uhss-and-boron/

And other safety improvements that were unique to the NA market (for example front U-Frame on USA GDBs that'd pull the motor down and away from the cabin in a front offset impact, and heavier bumper beams/side impact beams).

Also, the GDBs all got much heavier duty driveline components. Stronger axles/hubs, 6spd transmission, and bigger brakes all added weight (it's why STis are 100-150lbs heavier than WRXs).

>>16926660
holy shit tripfags are back

>>16926734
This

>>16926735
lol. dude, i've been here for 10 years. where were you? And technically, I would be considered a "name-fag". not a "trip-fag".

sure is getting summer in here.

>>16926729
The RS's system, while interesting and good for general road driving, is not tuner friendly. It can only deliver 70% of stock torque to the rear wheels. It can send all of that power to a single wheel if needed, but obviously this is not intended for more than a couple of seconds at a time. My guess is that the driveshaft also is a factor in why only that amount of power can be sent to the back. Given the above, if you don't tamper with the system's programming, you will gradually shift the power bias more to the front. If you fettle with the computer theoretically you could make it fully RWD, but not for long unless you do some serious upgrading. Given that a normal AWD system or even some Haldex systems can handle many hundreds of HP, you'd probably just want to swap the whole system.

>>16926734
>local fire department broke their jaws of life trying to rip the car open (
to be fair, these kinds of anecdotes have been written about Subarus since the late '80s, before the Impreza existed. The Legacy used to be the big jawbreaker.

>>16926734
Yeah, it got more safe at the expense of its original character. I guess the motoring press over there never got to try and describe both iterations, but here (aus) the weight dulled the thing, and it hasn't been the same since.

>>16926773
*Tips fedora

>>16926774
I couldn't imagine switching an entire AWD system out just to keep a chassis and an engine, let alone having to re-wire that shit to work if it was a haldex system.
I've been looking at this car and other cars in it's class, the more I learn about this car the less I want it, I can't seem to find one to test drive and was severely disappointed with the FoST.

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>>16926815

>>16926734

Why would they get credit

The Miata was like 2900 lbs and went back to 2300. The Cayman 2006 was like 2900 lbs and went down to 2700ish for 2013+

>>16926922
The heaviest a miata ever got was the NC with heated seats, bose audio, power retractable hard top, and all the optional accessories.

Even then, it didn't break the 2,700lbs mark.

>>16926922
>>16926940
Oh, and an automatic transmission. Seriously, those fuckers alone added over 50lbs!

>>16926940
A Miata Club was closer to 2480lbs.

2002 WRX: 173″ L x 68″ W x 57″ H
2015 WRX: 181″ L x 71″ W x 58″ H

The car got noticeably bigger, more powerful and only gained 150lbs in 12 years. That's not horrible.

>>16926922
If we exclude PRHT models the NC was only around 50-100kg heavier than the NB, sure the ND brought the weight down quite a chunk from there (closer to 150kg) which is an impressive feat, but they also lost a LOT of bodywork and vehicle size.

>>16926461
THe Focus RS is German.

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>>16926922
>The Miata was like 2900 lbs

You're probably thinking of the s2000, which weighed closer to 2800lbs

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>>16927302

>>16926791
The GD Impreza era Srubarus did actually have specific points that needed to be cut to get the B pillar off.

http://www.firehouse.com/article/10503660/subaru-ring-shaped-reinforcement-frame

>>16926774

The RS will continue to operate in its nominal algorithm until the PTU reaches a certain temperature (RDU temp is inferred from this). At which point it will switch to FWD mode. It does not continuously vary torque bias fore and aft based on temp, it simply disables the RDU when the hard limit is reached. Most people won't reach this anyways, but it is an issue for the hardcore track guys. It simply doesn't happen on the street.

As an RS owner I can live with this. Certainly better than having Subaru engine problems or EVO trans issues. The RDU can also handle a very large torque figure, but as noted earlier, cooling becomes the issue. If you're adding "hundreds of horsepower" to any car, you WILL be upgrading the driveline, I don't care who you are.

People are just out to bring down the RS because of the insane amount of hype, imo.

>>16927348
>It simply doesn't happen on the street.
Yeah... Because street driving is exclusively limited to stop and go traffic or cruising on a highway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6RUEJfcz9w
Try driving like that in an RS and it wont last
an sti or evo will do it all day long

>Certainly better than having Subaru engine problems or EVO trans issues
So clueless...

>>16926290
Dude, a regular GC8 STI could smoke a new STI with the same tires. It's pathetic.

>>16926734
Can we take away credit for going from 2700 lbs to 3150? And can we take some more away for the hawkeye hatchback for being so piggu?

>>16927399

I'm betting it wouldn't happen, you'll run out of tires first if you do that "all day".

Don't pretend like Subaru and Mitsubishi are infallible. They're not. The percentage of people who have gotten the RDU overheat is probably equal to those folks who have had issues at the track with their STI's or EVO's. Both of those cars require track prep, just like the RS. Plenty of guys have tracked their RS with no issues.

Shit, go look at the the ringland failure threads on nasioc or the sst failure threads on evolutionm.net. Common enough not to be a coincidence, uncommon enough not affect the average owner.

Bottom line: All 3 are remarkable machines, and just because the RS doesn't fit your weeb fantasies doesn't mean you have to trash it.

>>16927399
They don't hold up though, evolutionm and nasioc are replete with stockish cars with fucked up transmissions.

>>16927517
>common enough
>come on enough
Nice fucken grammar

>>16927615
>They don't hold up though
they do. its not the fault of the car that some owners are brain dead sea lions who crunch gears at 6000rpm or limiter launch from a cold start

give it a few years, the focus rs will be plagued will all sorts of problems

>>16927615
Can't speak for the mitsu, I think their 6 speed transfer case was their problem, but there sure as shit aren't lots of people breaking the subaru 6 speed - that thing was really over-engineered. The weakest link in a 6 speed subaru is either the clutch or the drive shafts. People sometimes break the shafts launching on a drag strip covered in rubber with hot race tyres and a monster clutch, but not normal race use.

>>16926290
Totally agree. The best US STI were the first two. Then they made the hatchback which was... questionable and now we have porkfat deluxe. But honestly a moment of silence...

The Lancer 7 was phenomenal and the Lancer 8 was the biggest shit excuse for a car. Thank god its a memory. WRX has one more incarnation before it's DOA

>>16927439
>>16927776

The hatchback GR STis are fantastic though. They were wider, more practical, stiffer, got bigger brakes, a nicer interior, rear double wishbone suspension, faster all around than the older GDB STis and kept the same weight at most going up 30lbs over one to 3370-3400lbs (same weight as the 2015+ STis). It just doesn't feel as fun because it actually has sound deadening, better valve shocks that don't make it ride like crap, and the extra rigidity helps quiet the car. It feels softer and more isolated, but it grips and corners faster than the older cars.

And no its illegal to sell a car that maims you in a minor impact.

The WRX will keep selling well, they're already selling a ton of them and the 2015+ WRXs are a genuinely good car. When/If Subaru puts a STi version of the FA engine it'll be even better.

>subaru

lol take the fucking wing off and it looks like a painted corolla.

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>>16926539
>Apple doesn't make good products