Is this actually possible? If so, what's the advantage

Yes it's called heel to toe. Google it

>>16780555

rev match down shifting and brake control.

>>16780555
It's good for being a weeb

>>16780555
Yes, it's heel-toe. It's useful for rev matching while braking.

>>16780555
Holy shit you're retarded.
I heel toe all the time, not even just for down shifting.
Driving hoopties you usually need to heel toe or left foot brake just to keep them running.

yes, racing drivers do it all the time

>>16780555
>advantage?
smooth downshifts while braking.
>in reality?
unless you're HEKTIK TRAK DAY WEEKEND WARRIOR or dagumi's second coming, you have no reason to be slinging your ride around to the point where you would ever need this technique.

>>16780555
Advantages are cool and everything but I imagine going down the gears like this wears your clutch down few times faster.
And if you driving in city I doubt you'll ever use it, its not like going from second to first requires this.

You need to be doing pretty aggressive and long braking for that kind of heel-and-toe. So basically it's not really applicable in road traffic.

>>16780927
>>16780919
>>16780916
Said the cunts who can't heel toe.
If you're down shifting you should be rev matching, if you're slowing down, you're probably braking.
Can you wait until you're done braking to downshift?
Sure. But why? Why not just heel toe? The only reason to say that heeltoeing isn't for regular driving is because you are shit at it, if you can multitask to make things faster and smoother you do.

>>16780555

Now if you're not a midget and human sized with normal sized feet you can rev match without needing to use your heel to reach the gas.

>>16780938
>The only reason to say that heeltoeing isn't for regular driving is because you are shit at it
Or if you driving in a city.
Or if you value your clutch.

>>16780948
rev matching saves the clutch you goober

>>16780948
Rev match downshifting is rev match downshifting.
If you're going to downshift, which you should be doing if you're even remotely qualified to be driving a manual, then you're going to be "wearing" your clutch. The point is that you're rev matching, you shouldn't be wearing your clutch at all.
Normie boomers just let the revs plummet then slip the clutch to down shift, which is clutch rape. A rev matched down shift is no different a rev matched up shift in terms of clutch wear.
Heeltoeing saves clutches you stupid fat cunt. Learn to drive.

>>16780953
Only if you can match perfectly, otherwise your clutch will still slide and dampeners will absorb the initial shock of your rpm not matched and you wont even know until you'll have to replace your clutch faster than usual.

>>16780955
>The point is that you're rev matching
How do I rev match?
How do I know what speed at which gear corresponds to which rpm.

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>>16780555
skip to :55 sec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfRy6R9-vj4

>>16780858
lel you brake while shifting into a higher gear?

do you like sounding stupid or do you just assume everyone has your intelligence level?

>>16780977
He didn't say he used it while up shifting, he just said at other moments. So basically just left-foot braking with one foot.

>>16780963
By actually driving your car and figuring it out?

>>16780960
Nigger if you're rev matching some you're still saving some clutch wear compared to your retarded "normal" method. Rev match is supposed to be normal.

>>16780963
Experience

>>16780960
You're right, I'll just drive in 5th until I have to stop from now on.
Making right hand turns off a 40mph road, should I just come to a stop, or should I just lug through it?
You know, when I up shift my timing isn't perfect either, so my revs are never perfectly matched to wheel speed, I guess I should only use first actually. That'll save the shit out of my clutch?
Actually, I'll just disable the clutch switch and turn my car off at stops and just crank her in gear with the clutch engaged to get moving and never shift out of first. That is clearly the ideal method of driving to minimize clutch wear.
You're a genius, thank you for saving my clutches! I can't believe I thought after all these years and hundreds of thousands of miles of driving manuals that it was okay to drive normally. Not that I've ever worn one out or anything, but you never know tomorrow could have been the day. What's your pay pal? I'd like to give you a tip for your expertise.

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>>16780555
>its another weeb that has probably never been in the drivers seat of a car but watched initial d and frequents /o/ thread

>>16780993
I think you mixed revmatching and heel and toe.
Rev match its something you do before you switch to lower gear, heel and toe is you rev match as you drop gears during breaking

>>16780963
The revs between gears are different from car to car.
Most cars I've driven so far have a difference of about 800-1200rpm per gear.
Also depends on gearing. Some for example in my car 2nd and 3rd gear have a higher difference than 3rd and 4th. Also depends on the rpm which you're driving. The higher the rpm, the higher the difference between gears.
Basically learn it first by just giving it a little gas while pressing in the clutch when downshifting. After 1-2 days of driving, you will have the movement and differences down pretty good.

>>16781006
Rev matching is just rev matching however you accomplish it. Heel toe is one way to do it, if you do engine braking like I do. There's no reason for anything involving synching engine rpm to input shaft rpm to hurt the clutch more than slipping it to synch speeds.

>>16780555
Threads like these keep reminding me that /o/ drives nothing but shitboxes. Heel to toe isn't even some form of advanced driving. If you ever went to a track you would know.

>>16780938
>If you're down shifting you should be rev matching
Rev matching ≠ heel-and-toe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU

as i'm not a racing driver (just like all of you) this is a very useless skill to try and learn.

to answer your question; it helps maintain traction, but on a public road this should never be an issue.

>>16781737
> it helps maintain traction,
No it doesn't you fucking twat.
It's about managing time.

>>16781130
You're not taking the entire post into context when you're replying to it.
Fake News.

>>16782021
>No it doesn't you fucking twat.

no need to get so angry about it m8. try doing some research you silly coon.

>>16782021
Yes, it is about managing time, but it stops unwanted weight transfer and reduces the chance of wheel lock, which aids in keeping on the track.

Why do you tripfags get so angry?

>>16780965
>that FATLUS sticker on his helmet

>>16782091
?

yes it's possible, the advantage is brake control while keeping up RPMs so that you can rev match, although I can't do this because my hips don't turn far enough for my heel to reach the gas

>>16782021
>No it doesn't you fucking twat.
>It's about managing time.
You should at least learn what H&T does if you going to call someone a fucking twat so you wont look like one yourself.

>>16782021

DSG fag spotted

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>>16780938
>Why not just heel toe?
Because my seat is too high and I can't touch my knees under the steering wheel.

>Caution children: Auto pee ramps

>>16780997
Lol exactly. At the end of the day a clutch is a fucking wear item

>>16782089
This guy is right, smoother inputs better traction more speed

Wouldn't it be more comfortable to have your heel on the brake and your toe on the gas?

>>16782021
>You're not taking the entire post into context when you're replying to it.
The topic was heel-and-toe. The posts you replied to were about heel-and-toe. You started sperging about rev matching, which is not the same fucking thing.

Tried it on my miata but I'm 6'0 and for heeltoeing I need to turn my leg in a way that my knee bumps in the plastic under the steering.

>>16782089
>but it stops unwanted weight transfer
As opposed to what? Jam and slam shifting? Sure. But you should always be rev matching, this isn't unique to heel toeing
Keeping the weight transfer before the turn is just a product of not shifting during a corner.

>and reduces the chance of wheel lock
LOL. What is brake bias, A street car has no accommodations for panic breaking including engine braking, if you have ever driven in snow you'd know that heel toeing to a corner or stop is a terrible idea and the load on the wheels from the engine will often cause them to slip. It's fine in full grip situations, but in very low grip situations you're overloading your tires.

>>16780555
That's just heel-and-toe

Is it bad that I heel toe when moving off of a hill cause I can't be bothered to put the parking brake on?

I can't cause my gas pedal is miles from the brake

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>>16785170
How the fuck?
All I'm imagining is you heel-toeing and then lifting your toe off the brake as you awkwardly try to keep a steady throttle and move your foot over to the right.

Why the fuck? Just use the handbrake.

>>16780988
Too hard.

>>16780963
when you shift down you won't feel it. If you give it too little gas you'll jerk forward as the engine braking takes over. If you give it too much gas you'll jerk back from the sudden acceleration. If you do it right nothing happens.

>>16782458
depends on pedals. I can't heel toe in my car instead I big toe little toe. On the company tuck I can heel toe.

>>16785362
That's exactly how, it's not that awkward. It's easier than handbrake.

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This is better

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>>16784885
Why do you think Heel toe-ing on snow is bad?

I drive in the snow all the time, my understanding is the heel toe method eliminates lugging the engine, weight shift and brake lock.

Wouldnt you have more traction downshifting using the heel toe method?

If you downshift in the snow without rev-matching you lose grip and if youre braking and not down shifting your rpms drop and make the vehicle less (nimble?) in emergency situations im not seeing how the heel toe technique provides for less grip on snowy or icy roads.

Please enlighten me because i am almost certain you are wrong.

>t I live in lake tahoe and drive on snowy mountain roads all the fucking time

>>16784885
>if you have ever driven in snow you'd know that heel toeing to a corner or stop is a terrible idea
In slippery condition H&T prevents wheels from locking since engine will spin them against brakes not allowing them to lock on ice.

>t.RBR driver

I heel-toe in my turbo diesel work ute all day every day. My big end bearings will last longer than any other part.

>>16780919
Wear down the clutch faster? Wew lad, I'm going back to /x, you /o people are truly bottom of the bucket. The morons on /x don't pretend to be smart.

>>16780919
>vantages are cool and everything but I imagine going down the gears like this wears your clutch down few times faster.
Suck a dick
Entire car is a wear item you retarded busrider.
Go fuck yourself you big poorfag pussy.

>>16780960
Your car burns fuel
Your car goes through shocks and tyres and brake pads and oil
Every single cycle your engine makes it wears down a little and comes a bit closer to blowing the fuck up.
Every time you turn the wheel you start killing the power steering.
Every time you sit in it you make it smell worse.
Every time you pull the handbrake you stress the cable.
Every time you corner you bend the chassis.
Every time you finish driving you lost a tiny bit of horsepower.

Entire car is a wear item you retarded fuckwit.
Don't drive the car if you're so worried about it.
Your piece of shit autism mobile is dead anyway. Why waste its fucking limited life with your shitty driving where you won't even give it the respect of cornering at its utmost limit.

I can't figure out how to do it without accidentally letting off the brake or tapping it a bit, making the car jerk.

>>16787209
practise practise practise practise.

Why are there no cars with a throttle twist grip like motorcycles have?

>>16787209
What does it mean when your car jerks shifting

>>16787232
Depends on whether it's jerking forward or backward.
>backward (brakes)
You tapped the brake or the revs were too low.
>forward (lurching, accelerates)
Revs too high, let off the brake or released clutch before blipping throttle.

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>>16787239
thank you

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>try to heel toe
>cant really turn my foot that way unless i also turn my entire leg and change how i'm sitting
>always end up just pressing on the brake harder

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>>16787052
>>16787190
>>16787195

Is that really that hard to comprehend simple logic?
Normally you brake from 4 > rematch and downshift.
With H&T you brake from forth > H&T into third, H&T into second and maybe later first.
With H&T you engage clutch 3 times when normally you would only once.

Not only this but no matter how well you revmatch there is always some wear and most people know jackshit about cars so when they downshift and dont feel the jolt they think they revmatched well but with modern dampeners and dual mass flywheels you would have to really botch the revmatch to even feel it.

Most people think lack of a jolt is indication they found the sweet spot but in reality they rape the clutch just not aware of it and yeah, go on tell me how much money you have so you can afford poor driving technique.

Car is a wear item but there is a difference when you do what necessary when it is necessary and when you do some stupid pointless shit for cool points so person behind you, see you braking smoothly and assume you driving AT.

>>16787279
didnt read lol

>>16787287
Its not like you could even if you wanted, just admit you are here for pictures.

>>16780555
Yes of course, don't even think about going pro if you don't do it

no advantage in road cars, its a meme made by americans who think driving a manual is a sport.

>>16787386
You can corner faster and it gets you into a good habit. There's two reasons to do it right there.

>>16786531
If you're braking anywhere near the limit, with your engine at 2k rpm, then downshift perfectly and put your engine at 4k rpm, you've just increased the load on your drive wheels by adding the engine braking on top of your normal braking, in very low grip situations that's easily enough to put you over the limit and to initiate a slide. In my experience it's much better to just wait until after your corner to downshift in the snow.

>>16780555
It's the driving equivalent of striking a dramatic pose in the middle of a fight. Sure, it's physically possible, but why would you do it? It's a cartoon. Nobody seems to think other anime is real but when it comes to initial D, all logic goes out the window and little kids assume it's a guide for driving manual.

>>16787438
>You can corner faster
no you can't, you can upset the car a bit and drive over the limits of mechanical grip, something not wise to do on a public road or in a road car. It's an autistic thing to do, just because some fat arab youtube shill does this doesn't mean it's good.

>its an americans talk about driving manual thread

>>16787279
You can downshift 4-3-2-1 without heel and toe

>>16787704
Explain this
https://youtu.be/MfRy6R9-vj4

>>16780555
shitposting aside, will downshifting from 3 on 1300rpm to 2 on 2000rpm really put any strain on my clutch? i mean, this part is designed to handle some heat, like while stating from standstill.

>>16788229
Shifting always puts some strain on the clutch. That's why your clutch has shock absorbers. Rev-matching a downshift like you should reduces the strain from slipping the clutch to spin the engine up to 2000 tpm in your scenario.

>>16787704
this
>dagumi zone where driver teleports from place to place
>angelic wings on cars
>shitbox beating r32 and lancer evo
it's car fantasy animu, like naruto or whatever

>>16780955
I raped my clutch for 77k miles then sold vehicle for a premium. I mean the clutch was fine tho. Am I a bad person?

>>16788233
i formed my question wrong: i mean sure, there is some strain, but is it really anyhow important? Clutch won't burn or even wear significantly while starting, so i don't think there is a reason for it to wear on gentle, low-rpm downshift.

I wonder if there is any reason to do it while driving slowly on the street.

>>16787231
Putting a throttle lever on the shifter or somewhere was pretty common when I was into off road ing

>>16788250
I sometimes heel-toe when coming to a stop from 55+ mph. Just easier for me. You should always always always rev match at any speed.

>>16787231
disabled people have throttle on wheel, it's usually kind of huge button around inner part of wheel though

>>16788250
I'm>>16788246
I drove 77k, downshift constantly, never rev matched, I'm talking chirp tires shit mode downshift CONSTANTLY.

nothing ever went wrong, nothing wore, nothing broke. Slipping the clutch, burning it, reading your foot, all this shit destroys a clutch, slamming into a lower gear without rev matching does nothing perceptible. NOTHING.

Dicking o makes me rage you fags are so stupid.

t. jeep tj bought new, thrashed on and off road for 10 years

>>16788292
And the guy you sold it to probably replaced the clutch 3000 miles later and said to himself "how did that retard fuck up the clutch that badly?"

Or more likely, you're telling tall tales

>>16783035
Late poast but you gotta just put your seat back further. I'm the same height with long legs in a miata and I used to bump the wheel during h&t but I put my seat back further than I would usually and everything worked out.

>>16787279
fucking busrider.

>>16780858
>i heel toe when shifting up

>>16780858
hahahahahaaha
oh christ man just kys

>>16780977

Dude if you dont even touch your e-brake shifting from 3rd to 4th you fucking suck a driving.

>>16787269

Because everyone is perfect the first time they try things!

Just keep at it anon.

>>16788676
>>16788668
>>16788646
There is no way this is 3 separate people

>>16787269
pressing the brake harder thing disappears after a while, it's all about getting muscle memory things right. also, try different leg positions, for example i'm pressing throttle with right side of my foot, keeping most of the foot on brake and tilting it slightly. it all depends on pedal alignment.

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>>16788695

>>16787269
just scoot your foot over and kind of roll it over to do it with the side of your foot. actually doing it with your heel is fucked unless you have baby feet

Seriously I come to this board ONE time in months and this is what you're arguing about? You can drive with your fucking hands if you want. It doesn't matter. Don't be a retard and practice your driving habits and you'll be fine. Fuck you dumbshits.

im out take your fucking board

>>16789306
this board is dead
all the oldfags are gone
ridden by 16 year olds who dont know shit
no comradery between bro's across the world, only shitposting and calling eachother cucks
youtube shilling is a common thing
multiple threads on the same subject

i tell you man these kids are a shitty generation, fuck em

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>>16789321
I've been noticing the uptrend of more threads with a picture in the op of some mexican american faggot kid sitting in his riced civic talking about eating fast food while driving. Makes me want to kill myself.

>>16788314
You got me I just made all that shit up for no reason on an anonymous image board so it would seem like I was right in front of a bunch of bus riding otists for a few minutes.

>>16788707
It helps to let some fluid out of your brakes so they start closer to the floor. Really takes the jerk out of stopping too.

>>16780555
I do it when daily driving too, it makes braking so much smoother and safer

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>>16789321
>>16789456
It's kind of interesting how modern day /o/ is like a lawless society. One day, rules just stopped being enforced. A few good men carry on as normal because they were actually raised right, as the world around them descends into chaos. Said men grow fewer in number every day as the warring tribes of savages pillage the land.

>>16788292
If you were chirping tires down shifting, you weren't raping your clutch, you were raping your tranny dif and drive shaft.

>>16780858
This has to be bait

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I was never able to because of my size 14 clown feet

>>16788292
>>16788250
shifting doesn't do shit, even slipping it doesn't (within reason, like holding the car on a hill)

t. taxi driver with a diesel shitbox daily in city traffic, 150,000 miles, original clutch, all good.

>>16787226
that's not how you spell practice

>>16780555
just google "rally footwork" or "racing footwork".

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>>16787269
There's more than one way to do it. It all depends on your pedals, shoe size, and flexibility. Just putting your foot over both pedals and rolling it slightly to blip the throttle is easier if your pedals are close enough together to allow it.

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>>16791248
Having big feet makes it easier, wtf are you doing

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>>16791248
my normal go-to shoes are size 13, I've had them for what feels like 8+ years. If I can heel-toe in those, you can heel-toe in 14's.

I don't do that "glorious Nippon no ankle 90 degree bend" bullshit, my foot-work is closer to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU

Fernando Martinez not related

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>>16792073
>>16792088
fuck i might be a retard. basically i would try bending my whole right leg inward to rotate the foot so my root foot would have the ball of the foot on the brake and the hell on the clutch. my right knee would always be blocked by my left leg though.

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>>16792159
I usually have to swing my right knee over to the left depending on brake pedal height. I drove my buddy's mustang which has a comparatively low brake pedal, I had to move my right knee to the left a lot more than I was used to.

I don't even rotate my ankle, my feet are basically straight up, try that out. I do have to treat the brake pedal as a pivot and I have to flex my ankle sideways, or however you'd phrase it.

>>16792183
Even still, if my left leg doesnt impede my right then the steering wheel will block my right thigh.