>American safety regs >Euro displacement taxes Which nation

>>16463695
Aren't Euro safety standards more strict than America's?

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At least ours don't make cars fat and numb.

>>16463711
>German cars
>not numb to drive

>>16463708
no, since wearing a seatbelt isnt mandatory in the US the car has to be designed to save the driver anyways, resulting in bigger safety-zones etc.

t. concept engineer for automotive interiors

>>16463719
I didn't say that all European cars were classic roadsters. Of course some cars will be safety bubbles simply because of their target audience (read: moms) wanting them that way. The point is that you can sell a barebones car in Europe if you want to and aren't forced to include 20 airbags and a backup camera.

>>16463723
>no, since wearing a seatbelt isnt mandatory in the US
what the fuck am i reading

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>>16463736
There are only 18 states where all occupants of a car must wear seatbelts and where you can be stopped for not using them. In the other 32 state either the rear occupants are excempt or you can only be cited for seatbelts if you're being stopped for something else like speeding, or both; or in case of New Hampshire you don't need to wear a seatbelt at all.

Americans
easily makes cars pigfat

nothing wrong with smaller engines
everything wrong with using big engines as a crutch from lack of engineering

>>16463723
>no, since wearing a seatbelt isnt mandatory in the US

uhh it has been for like 50 years now

>>16463736
>>16463753
should've worded it: "not mandatory to everyone", see >>16463751
also there is a difference in age, in some states you dont have to buckle up til you're 18+ (according to wikipedia)

>easily makes cars pigfat
>lack of engineering
yes, its much easier to design a bloated car filled with "air" instead of cramping as much shit as possible beneath a compact trim like in most german cars

>>16463851
>you dont have to buckle up til you're 18+
Really if anything it's the opposite that would make sense.

>>16463695
>Which nation is ruining cars more?
USA. Their safety laws are unavoidable, meanwhile, there's tax loops aplenty in Europe. Also, you could improve your income to offset the higher taxes, you can't do anything about the higher safety standards.

Also, very few Euro countries still use displacement tax. Most of them use a road tax system based on emissions, although some tax based on weight or power. The only ones I know that are still taxing on displacement are Belgium and Spain.

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>>16463695

>Which nation?
>Euro

Kek.
That being said, easily this shithole of a country.

>displacement tax through the stratosphere
>among the highest gas prices
>fucking boners for diesel everywhere
>every fucking thing outside factory spec is illegal. Say you want something as simple as a different wheel size, you need written permission from the manufacturer, and most of them just flat out decline everything
>add to this that people actually believe if you modify the slightest bit of your car, you are a danger to society

>>16463695
Euro Pedestrian Safety is

>>16463898
Germany taxes on a combination of fuel type, displacement and emissions; unless it's a commercial vehicle, in which case it's taxed on maximum weight rating.

>>16463911
I thought Germany stopped displacement tax somewhere around 2013/2014, and moved onto emissions and fuel-based tax. Got any English sources?

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>8.4L V10
>comparable fuel economy to turbo engines with less than half the displacement

Displacement doesn't scale with fuel economy, so why not tax MPG ratings instead?
>>16463904
Europe fits the dictionary definition of a nation, even with having multiple countries.

>>16463923
>Displacement doesn't scale with fuel economy, so why not tax MPG ratings instead?
Fuel economony doesn't matter to the environment, CO2 emissions do, so most Euro countries tax that one way or another.

>Europe fits the dictionary definition of a nation, even with having multiple countries.
Only if you have a very, very, very wide definition of nation. Once you start looking at even a country level, things rapidly fall apart. Unlike the US, which actually is a nation, there's nothing except a coin that ties Europe together, and not even all of Europe uses that coinage. Just looking at some Wikipedia definitions of ''nation'':
>Common characteristics
Very few
>become conscious of its autonomy, unity, and particular interests.
Individual state interests greatly eclipse common group interests in Europe. The autonomy is granted by the individual countries not by the ''nation'' Europe, and unity isn't to be found.
>a historically constituted community of people
Several distinctly different communities that fought tooth and nail against each other in a long list of bloody wars.

Simply put, Europe is a continent, the EU is a group of countries, and neither of them are, by definition, a nation, let alone a unified one.

>>16463923
>Europe fits the definition of a nation

Imagine being this stupid

>>16463723

t. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about

>>16463695
Clearly the displacement taxes.
I will fight you on this.
The entire point of the displacement taxes is to tax by which vehicles emit the largest amounts of CO2 emissions. diesel engines don't produce anywhere near as much CO2 as gas engines so this led to diesel engines being EVERYWHERE in Europe.

WHat they failed to notice is that CO2 is made by fucking everything. If they wanted tot ruly lower CO2 emissions, they'd tax you for breathing or farting.

Americans on the other hand, don't tax by CO2 emissions since that would be pointless. Instead American emissions target lowering actual dangerous emissions like nox. Diesel engines produce far more of these harmful pollutants than gasoline engines and bringing a diesel to market in America to take advantage of superior fuel economy means the engine has to be cucked to meet US emissions. This raises the diesel's price to the point it isn't economically efficient. So gasoline/petrol rules in the USA.
As a result, Americans generally have better air quality while in EUrope they have only now figured out their monumental fuckup and think banning diesel cars from cities will solve everything. That's a bandaid. Switch the emissions laws to US style which favors gasoline and displacement and you'll actually see emissions levels decrease

>>16463723
>since wearing a seatbelt isnt mandatory in the US
yes it is. Has been mandatory since the 1970's.

>>16464032
You can evade/compensate for displacement tax. You can't evade stupid safety regulations. Therefore, safety regulations are worse.

Anyways, confirmed for not knowing a few Euro tax systems. Most heavily tax diesel exactly because the particulate/NOx emissions are worse. What they do is they make sure they adhere to a Euro X standard, then tax them on a heavier scale than gasoline, but still according to CO2. This means the net emissions per euro of tax are still approximately the same.

Air quality has no direct correlation to automotive pollution. A great example of this is Rotterdam. Like you said, (old) diesel cars are banned from the inner city. However, air quality remains constant, because once a single ocean line rolls into port there, all the improvement is instantly undone.

>>16463695
I think EU is easily the most cucked for car laws.
I'm from Belgium and here you can get shit for as little as having non-OEM size rims on your car.
Bodykit and engine modifications require you to pass an inspection.
Plus the state taxes you almost the full price of your car if it's anywhere over 300-400hp.
To my knowledge, a stealthy aftermarket exhaust and some good looking OEM-sized rims is the most you can legally and easily do here.

>>16463751
but that's just retarded

>>16463753
The why the shitboxs they sell use a 1.5l turbo while Mazda use a 2l for the power and the Mazda get better MPG.

>>16463921
http://www.vdik.de/department/finance-administration/motor-vehicle-tax.html

>3. Additionally, passenger cars a basic amount of two euros for each 100 cm3 of cylinder capacity for gasoline engines and 9.50 euros for each 100 cm3 of cylinder capacity for diesel engines will have to be paid regardless of the amount of CO2 emissions.

>>16464251
smaller, turbo engines do better in the city, since they don't spool they act like an N/A version. Europe loves designing everything around their cities. meanwhile, the ND gets 40 MPG on flat land cruising @70MPH

>>16463923
Because why would I give a flying fuck how much some asshole who drives an 8.4L V10 gets taxed? He can fucking afford it.

>>16464289
it already gets taxed with every expensive maintenance payment, as well as extra taxes on gasoline

>>16463923
>so why not tax MPG ratings instead?
Because your fuel is already taxed, and it amounts to the same thing.

>>16464172
Northern neighbour here, your new cars cost like half of ours.
Inspections are a lot more lenient here though.

>>16463880
I think it is anon may have just mistyped. New England anon here and I'm pretty sure in New Hampshire you do not need your seatbelt in the vehicle once you're 16

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>>16464172

>Plus the state taxes you almost the full price of your car if it's anywhere over 300-400hp.

>>16463904
here, I forgot to detail how fucking retarded our taxes are

Let's take this thing here, 6.2 litre engine if I'm not mistaken.
Intial price before taxes was around 30k€. After taxes was 90k€. And no, I didn't mistype, TWO HUNDRED PERCENT of its price was taxes alone.

The Viper for instance was another gem for this. 90k€ before taxes, 200k€ after.

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>>16464501
Sup

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>>16464522

Oddly enough, the GT is cheaper here for some reason.

>>16464439
Yeah, Nederland is where it's at when you want to get any sort of JDM export to Belgium, here homologation and border customs are retarded as fuck

>>16464329
Good.

>>16463695
what taxes for motor vehicles should be:
>standard sales tax
>import fees only to pay for the paperwork and time spent dealing with it.
as for taxing after purchase:
>road maintenance cost per mile per year in the nation =A
>A / vehicle count in nation =B
>average load of tires (for vehicles operating that year) x wheel count =C
>Vehicle total wet weight / C =D
B/D= road wear tax

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>>16464522
>>16464560
Privyet

>>16464886
Anon, you do realise road tax isn't for funding roads, right? It's for solving massive gaps in your budget that you rationalise by gtting on the Green's side.

Same way speeding ticket work, really. That's just a tax on going faster than the state wants you to.

>>16464913
I was talking about an ideal tax, not what is real

>>16464927
The ideal tax is no tax at all.

>>16464939
ideal as in most fair for the citizen

>>16464946
I repeat my point.

>>16464949
fair=/= free
you have to pull your weight sometime, anon

>>16464952
I'm not going to go into a full economic discussion on /o/, but I'd say that taxes should be either paid on income or expenditure, on a flat rate. Screw specialist taxes like on cars or petrol or booze, just go with a set percentage on your income, or go with a set percentage on your expenditures (basically flat rate VAT on everything).

>>16463695
> Europe
> Nation
I think American '''''''''education""""" is ruining cars.

>>16463708
I think European countries will take the word of a country like Japan if they say a car has been crash tested but America demands to be able to crash test everything themselves.

In the case of a lot of Japanese cars this meant they were banned as the Japanese manufacturers were not willing to give enough free cars to America to crash test.

>>16464032
Holy shit Europeans are retarded

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>yet another thinly veiled Euro vs US shitposting thread

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>>16465373
This one's surprisingly civilized though.

>>16463695
> nation

>>16463695
>>American safety regs
>>Euro displacement taxes
Well let's see... taxes in Euroland don't prevent certain cars from being imported and sold... taxes in Euroland don't prevent certain cars being labeled street legal...

Enjoy cheap registration on your 40 year old 120hp v8 fwd shit box land barge
Meanwhile people can enjoy importing whatever they want and driving fucking race cars around britbong land (muh radicalz)

>>16465409
Enjoy your sub 2 liter diesel hatchback like the rest of your kind drives

The safety regs in America effect 0.1% of car enthusiasts. You're fine unless you want a TVR or Skyline.

Cheap insurance, fuel and tax make America infinitely better for being a car enthusiast and I say that as a European.

>>16465419
Sry I don't live in Paris:^)

>>16465426

Wrong, faggot.

America's safety regs are the reason every fucking car nowadays has to be fucking pigfat. Hence, they affect EVERY SINGLE FUCKING CAR and, thus, affect every car enthusiast.

At least yuropoors with their displacement/tax rules have pushed the boundaries of what little engines can do with fuckloads of revs and boost. Amerilards, predictably, have just added weight.

>>16465426
Yeah safety regs don't impact enthusiasts

Drive by wire, pigfat crash safety garbage, electronics out ass... all bevause of American safety regulations requiring all manufacturers to adhere to pointless nazi muh chillins bshit

>>16465438
I've traveled all over central Europe my friend. 90% of cars I saw were hatchbacks. The rarest powerful car I saw was a Tesla in Berlin.

Besides, most people traveled by bus or train anyway. You guys are always bragging about your public transport and it shows.

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>>16463751

Yeas and all 30 people who live in NH are in grave danger...

>>16465448
>little engines
>good
Oh how i am laffin

>>16465459
People in europe live in very different enviroment to Americans
American way of life literally revolves around big areas and transportation. Europeans have always been crammed in cities so to most people cars are nothing more than a four seater pishbike that's out of the elements and doesn't require a workout

Not even European by the way

American safety AND emission regs are cancer
Fords 4l inline six turbo is legal in europe and australia, not in USA Lmao

>>16465451
>>16465448
Point out exactly which safety regulations you are talking about and then compare them to the "EU" (are there EU regs or is it by country? If by country just pick one like Germany or Britain) ones.

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>>16465470

>2100cc turbo engine
>fucked the entire IMSA field full of "MUH V8s"

Stay butthurt and mistaken, fampai.

>>16465489
That was my point though. Anon was telling Americans to enjoy their shitty horspower landbarge V8 landbarge but it's not like Euroland drivers are breaking any speed or style records either.

>>16465508
>non-production car
Lol get bent fagget

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>>16465494

Here's a graphical representation of why you are wrong.

>>16465522
Why I'm wrong? But I haven't made a an argument yet. I asked a question, one that you haven't answered yet.

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>>16465516

>>16465536
Stay mad, wrongfag

>>16465451
>>16465448

>Drive by wire, pigfat crash safety garbage, electronics out ass

Non of this effect the 15 year old + cars that enthusiasts drive.

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Are people actually paying $100k to $150k for a Mustang GT in Europe? Or am I missing something here

>>16465542
enthusiasts only drive 15+ y/o cars? then who buys the new ones?

>>16465532

See the car in the picture? It's an american-spec Lamborghini Countach. All of Yuropoorland's goverment agencies saw the car and thought, "It's fine, sell it". But 'murricans had none of that. It HAD to have those bumpers because reaons, because "Muh safety and NHTSA". Most sport cars in the 80s and 90s were ruined in their US specs, even the McF1 suffered this (http://jalopnik.com/hey-jay-leno-great-news-theres-a-mclaren-f1-ameritech-1548875316).

It's just one example, and a quite grahpic at that, of the underlining mentality behind the goverment bodies in the US responsible for automotive regulations.

>>16465565
Wankers

>>16463695
I'd go with the safety shit.
In europe the car must past a frontal collision test and a T-bone type accident.
In burgerland it must also pass rollovers tests and have a metric shitton of airbags. Things like this leads to wide as fuck pillars and heavy ass cars.

The fucking displacement tax is a pain but at least you can always buy a small 2L turbo engine and have about 300 BHP with some basics mods.
And trust me, 300 BHP in a car that weights just under 1200 kgs is a lot of fun.

>>16465568
The 80s and 90s? IIRC the traffic safety laws America uses today were updated in the early 2000s. Use a relevant modern example please.

I understand your point but please.

>>16465562
Not really, the insane price hike is why you rarely see them in those countries.
They're much more sensibly priced in Germany (around 40k I believe) and they are/were very, even outselling the 911.

>>16465582

It's hard to find a modern example because most cars are designed nowadays with compliance to regulations for both amerilard and yuropoor standards in mind. Say, a Toyota Corolla: they design it from the get go so it can be sold anywhere in the world.

But there is a modern example in the Pagani Zonda. Same case as the Countach or the Porsche 959: every single nation in the world said "Yeah, alright, that's safe" but Burgerland said no.

http://edbolian.com/is-a-pagani-zonda-street-legal-in-the-us/

>>16465574
guess I'm a wanker

Reminder when you say stuff like "this is how it is in Europe". 99% of the time it doesn't apply to Britain.

>>16465609
Well thanks anyway, I'll try to do a little research of the laws on my own. I know US safety regs changed in the 2000s and here's the document. I just wanted to know how it stacked up against Euro regs.

https://www.google.com/search?q=US+automobile+safety+legislation&safe=off&oq=US+automobile+safety+legislation&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-serp.3..30i10.33418.38912.0.39074.19.19.0.0.0.0.212.2032.12j4j2.18.0....0...1c.1.34.mobile-heirloom-serp..12.7.755.yCWpMVENSR4

Second link. Too lazy to tinyurl.

>>16465609
It's the differences between ECE/UN regulations vs NHTSA regs. Pagani designed it for it's home region (EU) which many countries in the world signed on as global standards (except the US and Canada)