If automatics are slower because of wider ratios >4spd auto

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TEN SPEEDS, bitches. How can manuals even compete?

>>16200807
Thats just excessive

>>16200799
Unless it's a double clutch gearbox, a human with a single clutch manual transmission will be able to shift faster than a traditional torque converter automatic.

>>16200993
Thats fine though. But wouldnt it still make more sense to have he same ratio as a manual.
At least the engine isnt working so hard to overcome a tall gear. Thus improving mpg.

>>16200993
>a human with a single clutch manual transmission will be able to shift faster than a traditional torque converter automatic.
no, there's a reason 60 year old 3 speed autos are used for drag racing.

>>16201031
>At least the engine isnt working so hard to overcome a tall gear. Thus improving mpg.
the tq can be in between 0 and 100% lockup, this is why autos are easier on the engine than manuals. sort of like pushing the clutch halfway in while the car is moving and you're giving it throttle will cause the engine to surge.

>>16201042
>easier on the engine
>have to apply more throttle (more power) (more stress) to achieve the same result

>>16201058
>>have to apply more throttle (more power) (more stress) to achieve the same result
not really, the tq can ease down the lockup, not unlike overlapping the clutch and gas when shifting except it does it automatically.

>>16201042
That's drag racing though, you have so much torque you don't have to care about how long your gears are. Plus, that auto gives more consistent times, since its free from driver error. You also don't even need to care how fast it shifts from the sheer power you have, but thats all drag racing. It'll still sap some power away and many still choose manual transmissions.

On a track, I'll bet a 5-speed manual car VS the same car with a 5-speed auto would do a lot better than the auto. Unless the auto was made to shift faster than meshing gears together comfortably.

>>16201074
>You also don't even need to care how fast it shifts from the sheer power you have
That's wrong though. You only have a quarter mile, the less time spent with no power to the wheels the better.

>It'll still sap some power away and many still choose manual transmissions.
That's why they go with lightweight autos like powerglides and A904s, they take very little power to run.

>Unless the auto was made to shift faster than meshing gears together comfortably.
That's pretty much all autos now though.
Don't get me wrong, 2/4 cars i own are manual but R&D has made the a/t better than manuals.

Didn't a recent Charger or Dart or something have an 8-speed auto?

>>16201099
Chrysler had a 9 speed auto in their 200 i think

>>16201042
You don't know jack shit about drag racing. They don't use 3-speed automatics because of the shift speeds.

You don't know jack shit about torque converters either, the torque converter is not like a clutch at all, you don't have direct control over it.

>>16201135
>You don't know jack shit about drag racing. They don't use 3-speed automatics because of the shift speeds.
k
http://www.atiracing.com/products/trans/pg/superglide4.htm

>the torque converter is not like a clutch at all, you don't have direct control over it.
No shit.

>>16200799
>Tfw have auto with wide first and manual ratio for the 3 other gears.
>First owner chipped it to hit vtec at 2800rpms in first
>It wont shift with engaged vtec.
Uh. I wouldn't advise it. Unless you like the tq trying to lug the engine at low acceleration.

>>16200799
its slower beacuse of torque converter they literally sap the power of your engine

>>16200799
Because of the torque converter. A low gear isn't needed to move from still, so that frees up gears. A 5spd auto is like a 6spd manual.

>>16202472
The 5spd slushbox has higher losses than the 6spd manual/dsg.
The torque converter alone eats up about 30% of the engine power.

>>16201164
>3sp
>powerglide
wew lad

>8 gear double clutch auto
>slower than human

literally no

also, human is limited to 6 gear manuals (not counting Porsche's contraption), which will eventually be insufficient

i learned on stick, but after a few months of driving my parents car i bought my own and it's an auto

much more comfy

>>16202532
>human is limited to 6 gear manual
For wich reason are humans limited to 6 gears?

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>>16202550
because this is stupid and unusable

>>16202551
That seems like the kind of thing that would only work with a shift gate

>>16202551
>what are sequential gearboxes?

>>16200993
Not true. Modern torque converters automatics like the ZF 8HP can outshift a majority of all human drivers.

>>16201042
>no, there's a reason 60 year old 3 speed autos are used for drag racing.
Yes, and that reason is the loose torque converters they use, and not their shift speed.

>>16202570
what's the fucking point, you might as well drive a steptronic then? same thing just no computer in between. go full manual or go home.

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>>16202550
>>16202551
>>16202562
fucken wrong

>>16202571
DSGs can outshift anything since they literaly engage the next gear bevore disengaging the last one.
>>16202579
Sequentials are manuals...

>>16202587
things that should never exist.gif

>>16202590
>Sequentials are manuals...
it barely qualifies as such, an essential part of driving a manual is the gearbox. if i was just pushing a stick up and down it would feel like i'm shifting gears on an auto with steptronic.

it's like all the negatives of stick but none of the positives.

>>16201099
Modern Charger's and Challengers use a ZF 8HP (since 2016). It's pretty much the industry standard nowadays, with a massive amount of brands using them. Audi even uses it because the BorgWagner DCT's can't stand up to the weight and power of the RS6.

>torque converters magnify torque x2
>how can manualfags even compete?

>>16202594
You may not like these, but they are still manuals.

>>16202596
>magnify torque
>magnify
>it doesnt increase it just get closer

>>16202597
and as i said, they have all the disadvantages but none of the advantages of manuals. i.e. they're both obsolete and retarded.

>>16202509
>DSG
Stop this meme. It's the automotive equivalent of a Xerox machine. It should be DCT
>30% power loss
Maybe in 1960. Not in modern autos.

>>16202596
It´s not that simple, a torque converter may increase your torque, but also dexreases your wheel rpm relatively to the engine rpm while doing that.
Basicly you are using a lower gear but also have more losses than on a manual transmission.

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>>16200811
When you have lots of torks, it kinda makes sense. You will never use those highest gears on track day but if you're steady cruising at 55mph you can run at like idle rpm's and still get 30mph out of a 6L+ V8. Plus the DCTs make them shift so fast that it isn't going to feel like a semi truck when you take off from a red light.

10spd does sound a little overkill tbqhwy. If it were somebody besides GM, I would say don't worry because I'm sure the engineers know what they are doing.

>>16202594

Much faster shifts than manual, no torque converter losses of auto.

https://youtu.be/sf_8fbYjKFo

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>>16201042
>>16201074
>>16201088
>>16201135
>why don't they use 20 speed bicycle gear transmissions???

First reason is the torque converter's stall speed (equivalent to clutch dump speed) is set by mechanical design and is therefore consistent with every launch.

Second reason is that tall drag slicks actually expand radially with speed, so they provide a CVT type gearing effect as the car speeds down the strip.

The above two reasons are why 2 and 3 speed autos are used in all the top drag cars. Peculiarities of drag racing mean that you don't need many speeds, so racers go for transmissions that are strong, simple to rebuild, and consistent with the times.

>>16202579
Because sequentials are faster and more responsive than most manufacturers systems, and they are still full manual gearboxes: manual clutch activation, and manual gear selection. Steptronic lacks the manual clutch, obviously. Don't knock on it just because you don't understand it.

>>16202590
>DSGs
DCT's.
>Can outshift anything
No. They still have 17ms shift times in optimal conditions, which can drop up to ~500ms in suboptimal conditions (particularly unexpected downshifts). F1 electrohydraulic manuals have instant shift times (less than 1ms), because they just ram themselves into the next gear.

>>16202594
>an essential part of driving a manual is the gearbox
Which is still MANUALLY manipulated. You're not just pushing a stick up and down, you're also clutching it at the same time. You're just manipulating the gear lever in one direction instead of two.

I bet you think dogboxes aren't manuals too.

>>16202609
>DSG is DCT
Sorry, I just knew it under the name Direktschaltgetriebe or Doppelkupplungsgetriebe.
>30% losses
The losses depend on the RPM and torque going in and the RPM and torque going out, the maximum efficiency you can get are 85%, the minimum 0%.
The more the converter has to increase the torque and lower the rpm output the less efficient it gets.

>>16202624
DCTs have times in wich 2 gears are conectetd to the driveshaft, there is no time (except in neutral) when none is.
The long times between gear changes may happen when you are hitting the brake and shift up.

>>16202603
>Obsolete
Explain why F1 uses electrohydraulic sequential manuals then.
>Retarded
That's a nice opinion you have there. Too bad it's wrong.

Sequential manual dogboxes are simply the fastest transmission you can find, with complete manual input possible in terms of clutch activation and gear selection. They're faster than conventional manuals, faster than most torque converter autos, and almost on par with modern DCT's. They have manual-tier power loss too - because internally, they're identical.

>>16202640
There is a good reason pretty much every Motorcycle has one...

>>16202614
>If it were somebody besides GM
It was codeveloped by Ford, and it's also used in the new Raptor.

>>16202619
>The above two reasons are why 2 and 3 speed autos are used in all the top drag cars.
Top Fuel doesn't even use transmissions, they're just direct drive with a slipping set of clutch packs.

>>16202636
Still not as fast as dogbox sequential and the electrohydraulic manuals.

You can also really fuck a DCT over by quickly going from full throttle to full brake and immediately downshifting, but that'll probably upset your car too. The computer will expect an upshift, have the next gear ready, and then it has to quickly change that back to a downshift. Ain't no such problems with a proper sequential dogbox.

>>16202633
>Sorry, I just knew it under the name Direktschaltgetriebe or Doppelkupplungsgetriebe.
German detected. Both DSG and PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe) are actually trademarks. Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (DKG) is just the German translation for DCT (Double Clutch Transmission), the latter being the current industry standard.

>>16202648
Motorcycles also use sequentials for the improved packaging. Shifting a motorcycle with a gear lever and a foot clutch isn't exactly optimal.

>>16202654
I never said sequentials wehre bad, you seem to have mistaken me for someone else.
It CAN outshift anything, which doesn´t mean you couldn´t fuck with it.

>>16202654
>You can also really fuck a DCT over by quickly going from full throttle to full brake and immediately downshifting

I had a shit moment test driving a 2015 skoda fabia vrs with DCT. I briefly squirted the throttle to get some PSSSHHHH action, but then braked and downshifted a few times for a corner. Man there was this loud crashing THUMP and the front wheels chirped before it kachunked into the next gear and started abruptly putting power down halfway through the corner I was now coasting through.

safe to say, never again. DCT and automated manuals are the worst of the worst.

>>16202667
>German detected
Und jetzt?
>These names are trademarks
So what does using a different name for somethin actualy change?
>Motorcycles use sequentials for the improve packaging. Shifting a motorcycle with a gear lever and a foot clutch isn't exactly optimal.
Also the sequentials can have lots of gears and are extremely fast, almost as fast das DCTs.

>>16202677
>So what does using a different name for somethin actualy change?
It's like calling all copying machines 'Xerox' or all city cars 'Volkswagen', for example. It's technically wrong - the best kind of wrong. It makes people think that, for example, Ford uses VW gearboxes - which they don't.

>>16202514
Companies are building 3 speed powerglides.

>Yes, and that reason is the loose torque converters they use, and not their shift speed.
Autos shift inherently faster. Deal w/it.

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>>16202587
What is C?

>>16200799
It'd be slower because of the time automatic gearboxes take to shift, as well as being less efficient, wear out quicker, and heavier.

vrrrrRRRRRRRR R R R R R *CLUNK* vr vr vr vrrrrrr *CLUNK* VRRRRRRRRRRRR *CLUNK* vrrr vr vr vrrrr
Is worse than
vrrrrRRRR vrrrrRRRR vrrrRRRR.
Manual gearboxes don't hunt between gears and jerk the car around when you're just trying to corner properly.

>>16203591
Moron

>>16203591
>Manual gearboxes don't hunt between gears and jerk the car around when you're just trying to corner properly.
Please learn how an automatic gearbox functions before posting.

>>16203591
You do know it is necessary to press the cluth while shifting?

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>>16203572
maybe the hydraulics for the cargo? maybe, i dont really know

>>16200799
a automatic gearbox will always have a lot more power loss than a manual

>>16203572
Crawl.

>>16203857
Ok. This still doesnt explain why they have longer gears. Shorter gears make more sense

>>16203875
Effectively, the open torque converter functions as a gear within a gear.

Modern TC auto's lock up very quickly though, hence the need for more gears and smaller gear spreads.

>>16203875
I think an automatic gearbox has longer gears simply because they make more efficient use of the torque converter. With a shorter gear ratio the torque converter would probably decouple and wind a lot more often given the sharper differences between gears.

>>16203875
The TC will "clutch" while in gear so they will feel shorter when needed

In a MT you get the feeling that the engine is directly connected to the wheels, you dont get that in a AT, even in full throttle with an AT the power will always seem "filtered"

>>16200993
Um no. Even a garbage a650e shifts faster than senna on a manual

>>16203875
The torque converter works as a CVT within a small range, so you basicly have a gearbox behind another gearbox.

>>16203572
C=Speed of light