Talk me out of a Camaro SS 1LE >Want a Fast car >needs

WRX

>>16178830
>torque
>fast
>Reliable

At least you tried.

>>16178827
If you like the car and can comfortably afford it without regretting it, go for it. If you want to get more value for your money you can look at used cars. Whatever you chose, test drive it first obviously.

>>16178827
Mustang is another option. That's about all I can think of. Maybe a Hyundai Genesis? But the Genesis would need work to be as torquez as a V8. But at least it's fast and reliable/easy to diy

>>16178827
Challenger r/t is pretty fun, good leg room too.

>>16178827

Okay. I'm not going to shill for the Challenger for once and just talk about the Camaro.

I work in a service shop and we have these turds come in all the time. They have crap visibility and are horrible for daily driving because of it. You have blind spots everywhere - even the A Pillars are giant blind spots. If a lower slung car like a Mata is next to you, you can't even see most of it because of how high the window sits.

The engines and transmissions have really shitty seals from factory, too. They start leaking at about 50k miles - the break in point. They lose power and gas mileage around this point too because the car starts eating its coolant hoses.

The ride quality is garbage because the suspension components are build from aluminum foil and duct tape and they will begin to fail from constantly driving on uneven surfaces.

There's no room for more than one passenger and the trunk and back seat are so small that you can't carry much if you're going on a long trip. The infotainment system is dogshit and all of the electronics start to shit out in a few months after constant use. Most specifically, the window motors seem to short REALLY fucking easily.

They also have a terrible reputation for compressors shutting the bed if you use the A/C too much.

I HIGHLY encourage you to look at fucking anything else.

>>16178868
>>16178868
Shit like this is what I am worried about, I am by no means a GM fanboi it just seems the current Camaro lineup has alot going for it. Although long term reliability is something I am very iffy on with any american made car. I come from a family that has historically driven Hondas and Toyotas.

>>16178889
He's being a shill. The mustang/challenger/camaro lineup is all pretty good but the mustang/camaro is better in reliability/longevity. If you for one minute trust a Chrysler tranny over Chevy then you are deranged.

>>16178889

Look, I see these things all the time. GM has never had good reliability. Just ask anyone who drives an old Silverado or Suburban about leaks. The newer shit is even worse. They build to the lowest common denominator and it fucking shows. Their cars only look good in the show room, because constant use fucking DESTROYS them.

The auto industry is fucking full of memes and FCA gets the full brunt of them because of the Daimler era. They aren't half as bad as people say and I have yet to see a single Hemi product have remotely as bad of issues.

I daily a Challenger R/T and have for four years. I've had no issues. No leaks, no electronics faults, no suspension issues, no power loss. Nothing.

Take that as you will.

Test drive cars. Test them in traffic if you're going to be daily driving them. Do not just buy a car because of the specs..
I couldn't give a shit less if my car is fat and slower than an SS. I've never paid a dime in fixing major faults that R&D should have caught before it went to the dealer.

>>16178907
I don't my dad has had a RAM for about 4 years now and its transmission is so fucking clunky. The engine is great (its one of the cummings) but holy fuck it causes my autism to go through the roof with its horribly delayed shifts, and overall clunkiness.

>>16178836
It's more reliable than your piece of shit camaro lol

I'm assuming your americlap?

>>16178907

Look, nigger, you can meme all you want, but I'm trying to give an honest perspective here. GM can't design anything for shit and if you honestly think their transmissions are better than Chrysler, developers of such retardedly incredible trannies as the Torqueflite, you're a retard who probably fell for the Allison meme.

GM is shit. They outsource manufacturing to fucking CHINA. At least the Challenger is built by Canadians.

>>16178923
Reliability is only one of the things OP mentioned. Camaro BTFO of a WRX in everything else.

>>16178827
>long legs
>modern Camaro

Look elsewhere m8

>>16178868
>The engines and transmissions have really shitty seals from factory, too. They start leaking at about 50k miles - the break in point. They lose power and gas mileage around this point too because the car starts eating its coolant hoses.
There are 6th gen Camaros with 50k on them already?

>>16178916
Well as a man who has actually worked on Chevy/Ford/Chrysler cars, Ford and Chevy have made better cars than Chrysler throughout the years and you hating on old suburbans is where you fucked up because those bastards have more miles than any other car I've ever fucking seen. Rolling the odo is something that actually happens in those goddamn tanks. Ill give you the electrical problems but mechanically they're fucking bitches and smoking cigars all day.

>>16178947

Texas, dude. I've seen a 2016 V6 with 90k miles.

>>16178927
Well you look here motherfucker, Chrysler hasn't fixed their shitty tranny design since 1999 when they switched off of their (slow as fuck) 3-speed automatic transmission.

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>>16178830
2nd this, I have one and it makes me feel good inside. I want OP to feel good inside as well.

>>16178950

I'm sorry, at what point did I suggest they weren't durable? I said they fucking leak. They leak like a stuck fucking pig. They eat CV boots and piss coolant. The LT engines are fine except they cheap out on the seals.

GM are fucking lazy and it takes an owner constantly babying and putting bandaids on their purchases to keep them going.

I've been stuck working on GM products my whole life as well because my family are a bunch of morons. Every one of them has had tremendous leaks and major electronics problems. Engines seize up. Transmission detonate gears.

It's fine if you have the money to constantly fix them, but don't lie to people and say that they don't have a shit ton of problems. I'll willfully admit that my 1990 Ramcharger is a pile of garbage except for the A518 under it, but my 2012 Hemi is perfectly fine.

That's better than I can say about literally any GM product I've seen from the same year with comparable mileage.

>>16178966
>>16178830
My friend has a WRX, and my dad has a Corvette the one thing the WRX will NEVER be able to replicate is the torque of the Corvette. It may be fast, but going by the seat of your pants the corvette is way faster and moe fun to drive.

>>16178962

When's the last time you fucking drove one? I've got the 5 speed in my Challenger and it shifts better than any auto transmission I've ever had before.

Fuck you, you shill.

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>>16178977
OP needed daily reliability.

The two are different experiences all together. The space in a WRX is great for doing everything. A corvette is can be turned into a ballistic missile.

Price points factor in too, and you don't get the same thoughtful engineering in a Subaru in a General motors car. Subaru's hold their value better then almost every other car too.

>>16178889

I actually own a 2016 SS and I'm extremely happy with it. I've daily driven it since the day it was delivered and haven't had a single issue. I was actually very pleasantly surprised by the build quality on my car. I'm 6' about 165lbs and fit in the seats perfectly, granted the 1LE would have the cloth recaros not the leather ones in the 2ss. I also opted for the mag ride (which wont be in the 1LE) and even with run flats I barely notice bumps in the road when in touring mode, but yeah if you leave the suspension in track or even sport then you will probably notice all the rocks you're running over. As for visibility, aside from reversing straight back (but hey it's got sensors and a camera now at least), it's not really that bad, I feel like it gets blown way out of proportion. I just adjust my seats and mirrors properly and it's perfectly fine. As for the torque, I routinely catch glimpses of my passengers getting pushed back into the seat, it's great fun. Not to mention the engine is great for drowning out boring conversations.

>>16179044
Camaros hold their value quite well too though. Not as well as a Subaru, true. But unless the next gen Camaro BTFOs the current gen (see 2008 mustang for refrence), he should be fine.

Subaru are Giant piles of shit.

Op get a Chevrolet SS it won't fall apart unlike the Cameron it has better suspension and visibility and is way more reliable and will appreciate in value.

I have the older version from2001 because Straya and its unkillabe

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>>16178830
serious responses only please.

>>16179070
>>16179070
Mag ride is on the 1LE

>>16179167

Whoops, not sure what I was thinking when I typed that.

>>16179212
1LE is literally geared for track use, it has everything that can give it an edge on the track. Its better than any standard SS package.

>>16178952
Matt Farah's million mile camaro?

>>16179228
Until it gets BTFO by a WRX

>>16178827
DO IT OP. The only real downside to the car is the visibility, which I've heard isn't really awful once you get used to it. I'd recommend looking at actually owner reviews or better yet talking to people that own them rather than random people on the Internet who only like cars from one make/nation

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>>16179271

>>16178827
I've thrown together a list of reviews and impressions for you.

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/camaro/2016/review/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.caranddriver.com/amp/reviews/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-long-term-update-review

http://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/camaro

>>16179228
Why drive a trac spec Street car?

Get the chev ss nazi Luftwaffe

>>16179343
Because owning less than what your budget allows for is stupid. At least in my opinion but I also track my DD

>>16179343
>SS

Is Chevy red pilled?

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>>16178827
DO IT OP.

Camaros are one of the best cars for fucking your cousins in. Second only to Mustangs!

>>16179379
>mad his 4cyl japshit got BTFO by American muscle

>>16179339
>https://www.google.com/amp/www.caranddriver.com/amp/reviews/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-long-term-update-review
I bet they've been doing long stints of freeway driving with the cruise control set if they are burning oil.

Seems that GM V8s with cylinder deactivation will let the deactivated bank cool down too much, and then they start to get a bit of oil sneaking past the rings and out the exhaust on the deactivated cylinders.

Lost a quart of oil in 16 hours of freeway driving this way once in an Escalade.

My fault for setting the cruise and not touching the gas for 500 miles at a time, I guess.

>>16179374
Yeah
>>16179430
Better to just get it disabled when you get a tune.

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>>16179374
no but ford is

>>16178827
Tiny windows
An irresponsible amount of money
You can go 80% as fast for half the money with a c5 vette or modded ls F-body.

>>16180493
>80% as fast

Unacceptable

>>16178827
>America
>GM at that
Kill yourself instead

>>16178889
>>16179070
Gonna follow suit with this guy. I own a 16 2SS. I'm 6'1" and I fit in it just fine. Yes the memes are all there on visibility (thumb and pinky dash to top of windshield, etc). However as this other anon says you literally just adjust your seat and mirrors. I'm accustomed to using mirrors towing large trailers anyway. The 2SS also has blind spot monitors which work however I always still look over and check. Passenger is of course harder but it's still very doable. People will also meme about being at a stop light and not seeing it turn green. Not an issue for me. I love it for all its other aspects too no issues in all my time driving it.

The only thing I'm considering is buying a second set of wheels to put some better tires on. Keep the run flats for DD purposes and have a nice set for AutoX and any track events that I want to start looking into.

>>16181286
Faster than japshit

>inb4 the triple priced GTR

Why not take that 40k and build a 1970 camero up to smash a new cameros dick in the dirt?

>>16178916
>The auto industry is fucking full of memes and FCA gets the full brunt of them because of the Daimler era. They aren't half as bad as people say and I have yet to see a single Hemi product have remotely as bad of issues.

FCA reliability is dogshit. Even their best product, the Ram, is garbage. One of my company's Rams had to have a new camshaft put in it after 140k miles. That's pathetic.

>>16179078
>Camaros hold their value quite well too though.

Not even remotely true. The average depreciation is around 30% in year one.

>>16181726
This.

Get a suspension pack from Detroit speed and become Matt fatasses million mile lexus

life is meaningless
get a civic

>>16181773
Life means Even less if you drive a generic souless post 90s jdm shitbox

>>16179430
>500 miles
>in an escalade
>Without touching the gas pedal
>or needing to refuel
Wew

SS, S4, 335

Would be where I'd go with that much cash burning a hole in my pocket, but I'm pretty partial to 6-speed sedans

>>16181840
>4door

Why?

>>16181866
Because 2 door makes you look like a try hard and 4 door is more sleepery

>>16181825
Sounds about right, they have like 30gal tanks, and at 55, it would be getting 20s on my.

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>>16178830
>>16178966

Man i do like the looks of the wrx sti's but thats just my subjective taste. And if you track it its probably unstoppable im sure. But i learned when i was 18 that jap shit thats on the same economical platform as murican cars cant compete on the daily. I dont track my car. Americans in general dont take their cars on twisty tracks. Not that its below us its just not our culture. The reason i drive a straight line dud is cause thats where i need the power. Cause texas drives are arrogant fucktits that think they are the only ones on the road.

So. In the event that some dumbshit in a WRX dosent want to move out of the left lane and decides hes gonna speed up when i try to pass him on the right, ive got miles on miles of straight highway, and a tuned to fuck 383'd LS1 thats says otherwise. My ass will be handed to me if i step foot on a track. But whenever youre on the road, the same road as always that you take to and from work or the store or your buddies house, youll have to have something that can deal with me. Every. Damn. Day.

And if i see the right maro, challenger, or stangerang, well at least i know i got a fight for once, instead of another in the fucking way fart canned import.

Are Camaros actually fast? I always thought this was a meme

>>16181911
>being able win at road rage is more important than having a shit ride, shit mpg, and shit interior.

Pretty dumb reason to buy a car. I'd rather just not road rage and buy a nice car for commuting. hell even some old luxury sedans are pretty quick and way better on commutes.

>>16181969
Youre right. If i cared about those things id buy a corrolla. And were talking about fast cars and i shared my reason for wanting one compared to different kinds of fast i.e. track or street and or reliability.

I bought a good car that i wrench on happily and like to have fun on the road. You should try it some time. Breaks up the monotony.

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Camaro design is shit.
Someone post the pic of the guy showing his hand is the same height as the distance from the dash the the roof...

>>16182001
Yes and I shared that your reason for wanting one is dumb

>breaks up the monotony
yeah it just turns you into a rager. I commute on one of the worst interstates in the country, it is a bad habit to get into. just take your car somewhere to actually enjoy it or have 2 shit boxes instead.

Just get a miata and be done with it.

>>16182077
>6'2
>long legs
>Miata

Lol no

>>16182024
I can fit a 6ft folding table and more in that trunk. Nice meme.

>>16182116
so is the table 6 foot long or 3 foot long?

Get a BRZ

>>16178867
Double this.

>>16181728

>140k miles of fleet abuse
>wears down cam lobes

Are you fucking reading what you're typing, dude? I've seen fleet Silverados and Colorados that have eaten their radiators with half as many miles. I've seen Impalas that have had to have entire engines swapped because of cylinder fouling.

How in the fuck are you even considering a cam at 140k that fucking bad? FCA may not be the pinnacle of engineering, but GM literally can't put a car together for the life of them. They just use chewing gum to seal components together and send them on their way.

Jesus Christ, you faggots will meme anything into oblivion.

>>16182852
>you faggots will meme anything into oblivion.

The irony lol

>>16181825
Escalades have 25 gallon tanks

>>16182116
That doesn't change the fact that the opening is retardedly tiny

>>16181911
>nd if you track it its probably unstoppable im sure
nah a decent driver in a SS1LE camaro will absolutely dominate a decent driver in a WRX

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>>16178827
NIGGER trust ME, the Camaro is what you want. Especially any v8.


That shit is so refined but mean at the same time. It's quick as hell, easy and fun to drive. The automatic downshifts are pretty fun too. It's got a reliable and easy engine with an iron block. Nothing can do wrong. It's light and super comfortable too. A lot of people roast the lack of visibility but I LOVE that. I consider it a feature. I feel like I'm in a fighter jet with that.

>>16178827
Drag radials only 11.59 @121 best run that day.
https://youtu.be/4BPhKYUXSe0

>>16183216
Is this some new type of bait?

>>16182852

This was'nt a fleet Ram. It was a salesman's fully loaded Hemi bullshit edition.

>>16178827
>needs to be comfy for a 6'2 guy whose got long legs

Camaro is not your car then. I'm 6'4", in a camaro the roofline was directly in my line of sight and the headliner was maybe an inch from the top of my head.

>>16184278
Lower the seat silly

I'm in the same boat as you OP, my truck got rear ended recently(still drivable but has frame damage) so I'm going to get his insurance to pay out my truck and use it for a down payment.

For the last couple days I've been deciding between Camaro SS and WRX
I need something that
>tunable
>can handle
>reliable
>mountain twisties and track days

Anyone have suggestions?

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>>16178827
>want a fast car

Then you should probably get something that isn't literally slower than a fucking minivan.

>>16178827
The next generation of dodges will probably attempt to one-up it in performance and add more base horsepower, and if the current design trends for both companies continue, a challenger or charger will be significantly more practical, driveable, and fun as well.

>>16184316
Red pill me about the WRX

>>16184393
Headgaskets go boom
Insurance will rape you
Community is fucking cancerous
New ones look like Corollas
Old ones are stupid overpriced and beat to shit with horrible mods

>>16184370
But when will this be?

>>16184408
Pretty much this

I thought they fixed the headgasket issue back in 04' but evidently not

>>16184476

2020, officially. That's when they're supposed to be moving to the Alfa platforms. It's also during that year that the Gen IV Hemi is rumored to be unveiled.

Compound that with Trump's desire to smother CAFE and EPA restrictions and the horsepower wars will come to a screeching halt. Dodge has literally been developing the most obscenely powerful engines in the world since the fifties. We're talking a full blown return to the Elephant days. A monster of such legendary proportions, compounded with the tech advancements of the subsequent five decades, that there will be no substitute.

They're hinting at a lighter weight, bigger displacement, better developed sports car for the average joe. And with the tremendous success of the retro styling of the Challenger, it's a complete guarantee that the next generation will still look incredible with all of these buttfuckingly amazing updates.

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>>16185330

>>16185330
>lighter weight AND bigger displacement than the current gen

Well, shit. Call me a FCA shill.

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>>16185330
SOON

>>16178907
We've had some boosted camaros in and out of my shop over the last couple years. Trans is ALWAYS a problem on them. They kind of suck. One only had 800whp and broke in the first 100 miles. Once we send them out to get built we have them pushing 1200 whp+ but their transmissions aren't great. To put it in perspective our 850whp Z has 15k miles on it (since engine build, 100k on trans) and the stock ORIGINAL trans and zero issues.

>>16185495
>only 850rwhp
>stock trans
no shit its gonna blow it could not handle the torque

>>16185556
Most other cars in it's class have no problem. Getting 1000whp + out of stangs with 0 issues. We are also seeing them pop with way less HP.

Either C7 or the new Mustang.

Both better than Camaro in every way

>>16178827
Buy a cts-v. Women won't think you're a faggot. And dudes will, until you walk them, then they wont either.

>>16185576
>stang
>not having trans issues
You are full of shit my man

http://www.news.com.au/news/ford-mustang-loses-its-police-stripes-after-overheating-within-minutes-of-a-simulated-pursuit/news-story/13e4b07005fa5bc3b3da6563d0a0fea3

>>16185611
>one car in Aus is all cars
I'm going by the dozens we see in the shop every day. Moron. I never said that NO MUSTANG EVER HAD A PROBLEM. But GENERALLY we see a ton more failures in the camaro. Why you so BTFO? Own one?

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>>16185635
>implying fords are reliable
>implying mustangs are reliable
we all know who the real moron is here

When will people learn that Camaros arent fast cars?

>>16185611
Seriously cunt?

Just because the NSW police are too retarded to ask ford for a police pack including shit like a bigger trans cooler doesn't mean all mustangs have problems.

More importantly, that's the fucking ZF 6-speed. Those things take 400rwkw in XR6T/F6 with only an input shaft and trans cooler. They're bulletproof in stock form and to go into limp mode those cunts must've been 'simulating a chase' by doing goddamn neutral drops and doing skidz until the tyres popped

>>16186403

As opposed to?

I'm the guy pointing out the flaws in the car, but they are a sub 60k car that can do 180. That's not fucking slow. American muscle cars are pretty much the best value for out of the box speed on the market. You have to go significantly more expensive for ten or twenty MPH more and the aftermarket makes that a stupid decision.

Bolt on turbo kits and superchargers, let alone nitrous or Stroker kits can take an SS into supercar territory.

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>>16178916
>I daily a Challenger R/T
>suggest this over a camaro
>"no guys im a mechanic trust me"
holee fuck

>>16178916
get the fuck outta here lol i drove a challenger r/t for two years and it was in the shop literally 1/5th the entire time i owned it. it got to the point where the dealership started giving me upgraded loaners like pickups and stuff.

had enough of that and traded it for a Stang, no issues after 2 years. thank fucking god. fuck fca

>>16178827
a car that can accually take a corner ?

>>16178827
Why would you get a high spec track-oriented car for DD? Get the normal version.

>>16187201

Look, man, I didn't jump on this thread to shill the Challenger, for once. I just gave the guy my insights about the Camaro. Like I said, -I- haven't had any issues with mine. Mileage may vary.

I've just seen a shit ton more Camaros being laid up for major maintenance than either the Challenger or the Mustang.

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>>16185584
Wut..the new mustang loses in every performance category to the Camaro it's not even close.

>>16187275
The only universe where that might be true is one where you are a mechanic at a Chevy dealer. The Lx platform cars have worse reliability statistics for every component but the Nav, when compared to a mustang or GM Rwd.

>>16178868
Good post. I always ask other mechanics before I consider a vehicle, because the opinion of a non-mechanic is invalid unless they are something like an experienced used car salesman like LPG.

If line mechanics say it sucks, it sucks. They see the earliest high mileage/moderate mileage examples.

>>16178907
>He's being a shill.

If you aren't a mechanic your opinion is invalid. You are lesser creatures, mere spectators while real men wrestle with what OEMs spew forth.

I don't trust either tranny. Trannies (except maybe Bailey Jay) are made to frag nowadays.

>>16182693
I'd never recommend this to anyone who is thinking about buying something that meets any of the following criteria:

Fast
Daily
Reliable
Seats 4
Nice interior

Someone shopping for an SS isn't going to buy one of those fucking nuggets.

>>16187231
>faggot thinks his econoshitcuckmobile can take a corner faster than an SS 1LE
>which is as fast as an M4 GTS on street compound tires

lmao

>>16187490

I'm glad someone takes my post for what it is. I'm tired of arguing about it.

There are a lot of outliers in any test like this. I don't really use my car as an example of anything but an outlier because I am meticulous about my upkeep. It isn't a shining example of how perfect a Challenger is. It's just an example of what happens when you don't abuse one.

I'm sure some Camaros held up well through a mix of luck and regular care. The thing I'm trying to say in this thread is that if you're Joe Blow daily driving your Camaro between oil changes and only fixing things when they go wrong, it will fall apart around you.

I haven't heard the same out of Challengers. I haven't heard the same out of Mustangs. I just know what I've seen and what I've heard other mechanics say.

The only people who buy Camaros are GM employees. If you're going to get a shitty American car at least get something like a Mustang.

>>16188409
Those are ugly as fuck.

>>16178868
No you don't.. All three of these are reliable. I still have an 01 trans am that I bought new The only problems I've had with it are the headlight motors need replaced "under warranty" and the door motors are now slow as shit. Now the bmw's that I've owned are a whole other story with pages of repairs. I suggest join a real car forum of the ride you want to see the common problems.

>>16187275
>auto
You do realize that out of all 3 cars the Camaro's take the most abuse as well? This is by no means me shilling or coming up with some bullshit reason. I myself drive a Challenger but I know for a fact most Camaro's are put through hell by there owners which says a lot because even Mustang owners aren't as crazy.

I have a friend who bought a Camaro and constantly abused it everyday, he never ever just drove it, he just constantly fucking smashed the gas, did burnouts and entered corners at the highest possible speed, slammed his brakes all the time as well.

Camaro's aren't taken good care of out of the trio I've noticed.

>>16178867
this- except bust out like 5k more for the scat pack

>>16187568
Hey just curious specifically what year camaro and which powertrain (ie V6 V8 2.0T) would you say is more prone to problems if any?

>>16188642
Still aren't ragged as hard as your average civic.

>>16178827
>6'2"
>6th gen Camaro

I'm 6', and my 5th gen is uncomfortable, and only gives me about half an inch of space between my roof and my head. The 6th gen has an even lower roof.

>>16187568
What would you say is a good sports car besides the challenger?

>>16188807
The charger.

>>16188807
If you want an example of why Moparfag is full of shit, the average Camaro is traded in with 126,000 miles on it, compared to 99,000 miles for the Mustang and 56,000 miles for the Challenger.

Challenger owners, on average, don't trust their cars to run as long as the competition. This is why the average Challenger owner trades his car in before it's out of warranty, while the average Camaro owner drives his car more than twice as long as the warranty lasts.

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Comfy, in your price range, and if you want to open it up get a tune and go catless and harvest the butt hurt when you walk people with a fucking Taurus. Also meth is liquid crack on the 3.5 EB

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>>16178827
Save your money and look for a used, low mileage challenger. Use the cash you saved for exhaust, wheels, hookers and blow

>>16187535
see
>>16184341

>>16188409
>The only people who buy Camaros are GM employees
>Currently the best selling pony car, the only pony car currently posting sales increases.
>Only bought by GM employees.

Sure.

>>16188790

2012 to 2015 V6s are the worst. They're almost all dailies for women, though. 2013 to 2015 V8s also have bad leaks and electrical issues from what I've seen.

>>16188642

>auto

I ruined my left leg during my time in the service. Working a clutch on a daily commute hurts too much, these days.

>>16188807

It depends what you're looking for. On average, though? I couldn't recommend any modern sports cars. Even the Mopar twins have too many problems for me to actually recommend them except in threads where someone really wants one.

If you want a sports car, buy old ones. 80s and 90s sports shitboxes are cheap and can go a long way with mods.

If you're insistent on buying a new one because of muh amenities, look at the earlier 2000s Mustangs or 370Zs without the "performance packages". Maybe a WRX if you don't mind everyone calling you a faggot.

I don't like modern cars, though. I bought my Challenger because it was comfortable, cheap used, and I have huge ambitions for modding it.

>>16189565
Btw the >auto came from nowhere when I posted that. I have no idea how that got in the text field.

I have no fucks given towards what transmission people use. I love myself a manual on cruising days when I just want to drive, but if I have to go into town or to work I prefer auto because it just becomes a pain in the ass.

>>16188919

You're asspulling that. There is no metrics, no studies that suggest anything of the sort. If anything, it's a sign of how much Boomers love the Challenger. By far, I've seen more middle aged men trade up their 2008 RT to a 2015 SRT than I have anything else.

Not to mention, I've had my car for four years and still haven't broken 60k miles. Again, I daily this thing. I take it out to car meets. It's my weekend fun car.

I also have a 2015 Ram with similar miles because I'd rather use it in Dallas traffic when me and my wife go places.

Keep making assumptions, though.

>>16189594

I don't get butthurt about it like a lot of /o/tists. I have my reasons for driving automatics. I still enjoy manuals, I just can't drive them on public roads because it feels like a railroad spike is getting driven into my kneecap.

Shit sucks, because the clutches in the Challengers are pretty great.

>>16189599
It's not an asspull, it's from http://longtermqualityindex.com
The Camaro and the Challenger also have similar number of respondents cite drivetrain issues at trade (Camaro 10%, Challenger 7%), but remember that the average Challenger is still under warranty, and the average Camaro has over twice the mileage.
>it's a sign of how much Boomers love the Challenger. By far, I've seen more middle aged men trade up their 2008 RT to a 2015 SRT than I have anything else.
>Not to mention, I've had my car for four years and still haven't broken 60k miles.
Not going to argue that Challenger fans are old people who don't put lots of miles on their car, and trade them in early, before their warranty coverage expires.

In fact, that's what I was saying, well, except for the boomer driver with knee arthritis part, that's all you.
>I also have a 2015 Ram
My condolences.

>>16178923

Obviously.
Subarus break down less but not enough to make up for the fact that they're more expensive to fix than domestics are.

>>16178836
>torque
does your car have >460lb-ft

>>16189724

>Our data is provided by a partnership with a national network of used car auctions, which allows us to get information on vehicles from all across the country with uniform reporting standards.

So, it is an asspull and you're full of shit? Because auctions =/= past owners. Also, your metrics are retarded. Time causes as much damage as mileage on cars. A car driven twice as many miles under similar conditions should have similar wear. Leaving a car in a garage the majority of the time should cause considerable faults in a powertrain. You see that sort of shit all the time in a shop -old people bringing in 8k mile 1990s luxury cars that have rotted through their parts.

But, please, continue to make stupid arguments. You know, like assuming I'm am old faggot. I'm in my twenties and wrecked my knees working in a maintenance field. Fuck you.

And fuck you twice for the Ram comment. My fucking wife daily drives it and it has far, FAR less issues than her coworkers' Fords or Chevies.

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>>16184341
>fully gutted
>roll cage
>corbeau racing seat
>rpf1's and R6's
>big brakes
>coil overs
>etc
>etc
>etc.
it's faster than whatever jap shitbox you worship too

>>16190106
What maintenance field fucked your knees? Sucking dick?

>>16190232

Servicing your mother. She's the size of a C130, after all.

>>16190157
>stock drivetrain minivan BTFO Camaro SS

>b-but muh suspension mods and safety equipment

Needs the safety mods to be safe from GM fangirl tears desu senpai

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>>16189742
subarus are decent cars, but repairs can get very expensive because of the boxer engine; add in forced induction and all wheel drive and you have far more things to go wrong; - in my country subarus depreciate very quickly because of this

>>16178827
Get a zl1

>>16190106
Dude, you're an assmad fanboy who's got a brand loyalty complex. Your anecdotes are not data, and the fact that you change oil for a living doesn't change that.

People who do actual market research, and who aggregate actual data all agree that the Mustang is the highest quality pony car by a narrow margin over the Camaro, and the Challenger sits at the bottom of the chart by a larger margin.

They also agree that the principle advantage the Mustang has is in durability and quality of the interior.

This isn't a surprise at all, because FCA has less budget for development and QC than the other two.

Chrysler has been plundered by two successive European masters, the only surprise is that they manage to make cars good enough to be a valid choice.

But if you choose the Challenger over its competitors, do yourself a favor and don't deceive yourself as to why.

People choose the Challenger because of its style, it's drama, and the fact that it doesn't have the pretention to try and compete out of its segment, like the Mustang and Camaro do when they benchmark things like the M4.

>>16190591
>$20k more

This thread is fucking cancer...

>>16191878
Would a 300+ response on which japshit is the better econoracer be better?

test

>>16190718

Look, faggot, at no point in this thread have I actively stated that my opinions and observations are fact. I've only provided my thoughts because OP asked people to convince him not to buy a Camaro.

I know the Challenger isn't the best choice of the three on paper. I also know that Ford and Chevy have a history of paying off reviewers and award institutions to say their cars are better than they are.

From MY observations, I don't trust the "proof" you've been trying to provide. I don't think the Camaro is a good car. I don't think they're reliable.

OP can take that as he fucking will, but you're just trying to argue a stupid point by spewing horseshit. When you can find actual, quantifiable data that shows that owners of Challengers have more problems than owners of Camaros over the car's life span, I'll relent.

I'll also jump on a unicorn and ride it to Neptune because clearly we're in a fantasy land.

>>16192655
It's pretty clear reading your posts that you have massive brand loyalty and complete bias instead of actual data. I'm sorry to tell you this but the Challenger is shit in every single aspect except it's styling. I know that sucks to hear because you want to justify your vehicle but the time has come to accept reality and swallow the fact that the Challenger is a piece of unreliable broken down trash with an interior quality on par with cheap early 2000's European shitboxes.

TTAC made a review of this car:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/11/2017-chevrolet-camaro-1le-first-drive-review-1leheheheee/