Redpill me on Tesla. Why do you guys hate it so much? Seems pretty

I live in the Bay Area and 50% of Tesla drivers are fucking idiots on the road cutting me off not even using a turn signal.

Other than that cool cars

>>15967522
I don't hate them. I don't think a lot of people here hate them either. I think they just hate whatever they represent, like bad drivers, or the move away from driving your own car, the move away from ICE, extreme government support to a private entity. The cars themselves are pretty cool.

Like the cars. Hate the fans.

Really cannot stand all the kiddies nowadays running around butting into every car conversation to tell you how the tesla beats everything because muh 0-60

>>15967604
Well a couple years ago they would have been in 5 series or E class sedans, driving just as badly.

>>15967522
They're generally solid cars. Though they have an excellent warranty and service program for when things go wrong. Things do tend to go wrong. Since Elon pushes too much complication into the cars and treats everything as Beta products.

While other car makers will wait for a refresh or new generation to put in improvements. Tesla develops a better widget, and it goes into the next car possible. They push software updates to the cars over the built in cellular device. if something isn't working. They usually try to remotely fix it through software.

They do accelerate very hard. Though ludicrous mode over volts the battery and motor. Using the superchargers makes the battery hot too. Though Teslas do have liquid cooling for the battery packs.

they're comfy enough. interior isn't up to the same standard as similarly priced cars. The giant touch screen works pretty well. steering wheel and stalks contain all the necessary controls you would need while moving. You can always use the Autopilot to allow you to spend a little more focus on the screen. Though don't be like some idiots, that trusted the autopilot completely.

>>15967687
0-60 is incredibly important

>>15967522
Tesla makes some cool cars, but are funded by the government like most American car manufacturers.

>>15967689
This is true.

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I hate it because of that smug look Elon always has

>>15967687
what good is "muh 0-60" if I cant fucking afford it? Tesla can fuck off until the prices for that type of engine power comes down.

>>15967522
seems like a neat toy but they definitely have had a lot of issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anlYz3Mwamc

The tech negro also had to have his P100D fixed within the first week or two of ownership

>>15967789
I agree. Everything Musk touches reeks of pretentiousness.

>>15967828
>>15967789
at least Elon is trying to bring new things to market for reasons beyond the money it can make him.

anyone else would have just gone for the Model 3 first, or only ever done cheap sat launches with spacex.

>>15967839
>anyone else would have just gone for the Model 3 first
No they wouldn't, the model 3 couldn't have been done first because the current price of 60KW+ battery packs are too high for a $30,000 car. The model 3's success is entirely dependent on Gigafactory being completed in 2017 and running smoothly.

>>15967522
Their cars have some serious issues that EVs shouldn't have and Elon Musk gets eight-figures in gov't subsidiaries and somehow still can't turn a profit.

>>15967839
>he honestly believes spergman and his spergfriends are operating on altruism when they take your tax money to fund failing fashionable projects to get paid

>>15967839
This is why I don't like tesla. Normies are so retarded they think a nice rich man is giving away all his money for the better good of society. Meanwhile in reality he is getting richer when both Tesla and SpaceX have yet to turn a profit. Tax payer money bailed him out because the roadster was such a shit car, tax payer money goes into each car to keep costs down, commiefornia does incentives like allowing you to use the hov lane just to try and get you to buy the piece of shit.

Nissan Leaf, EV Kia soul, and other electrics are already out there under $40k.

>>15967848
And it's still not a $30k car, it's $35k base AFTER taxpayer money buys $5k of it.

>>15967522
Holy shit, this is the guy literally everyone I know is worshipping? He LOOKS like a con artist. That is a face even a mother couldn't trust. Nigga walked into the plastic surgeon like "ah yes give me that 'you can trust me with ur armor' mug". This is the face of a motherfucker who produces cars with the carbon footprint of 50 non-smogged Landrovers with 300k miles apiece FROM THE FACTORY that run off "clean" electricity, straight from your local coal plant.

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what about this guy?

>>15967926
saw a couple of those within 5 minutes of each other the other day

looks pretty damn awesome in person, and i don't like new cars that much

I hate that they all look the same. nobody puts any stickers on them or try to show any personality

>>15967926

I've seen like 6 of these in Vegas in the past 2 months.

I remember seeing one and going "holy shit that's bad ass" and googled it. Then thought it was a piece of shit.

So disappointed.

>>15967894
I 100% agree with you. I think one of the problems that cars like the Leaf and Soul have is their appearance. They simply don't look like exciting cars of the future.

I think one thing that really helped Tesla get attention from the normies is they packaged an EV in a car that looks decent to most people's eyes. It isn't a car people would feel embarrassed to be in.

So in a nutshell, they did a good job on the image and design. I think that summarizes Tesla in general. They look the part, but once you dig deeper into the details you start to see all the flaws.

I also think that the other thing that has helped Tesla is having that single figure they can point to as the genius behind it all. Really helps for PR and marketing when you have a guy like Elon Musk where reddit users will defend the guy to the death no matter what kind of criticism you point at him or his companies.

It's less of a car and more of an appliance. It feels and acts that way when you drive it.

>>15967522
Problem with Tesla is that they are getting most of the attention when it comes to EVs but try to turn them into an Apple-like "lifestyle item", which does not usually please car enthusiasts.
There isn't much wrong with the Teslas that already exist but there is certainly some questionable things with the company itself, and with their future plans

>>15967942

So the Apple product of the car world?

>murder hooker
>tesla calls cops and tells them location of body

>>15967815
Stop being poor.

>>15967926
Is that the Prius by BMW?

>>15967997
lol just saw one at cars and coffee yesterday

People who hail them as the second coming of jesus is what annoys me
>It's the fastest car! Look at this acceleration!
>can't even complete a lap of the Nurburgring without reducing it's power
>4,700 lbs

>>15967522
It has a pretty shit fanbase but as a car built to be an appliance it's almost perfect. Of course like all cars built to be an appliance it has about as much soul as a cellphone.

It has lithium batteries in it, which are very expensive and have a relatively short lifespan, they are more than half the cost of the car.
This is a recipe fur disaster.

>>15968069
But again every single one has tax incentives. A lot less would have bought them if Tesla didn't get the special snowflake treatment.

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>>15967942
nigga are you 16 years old?

>Stickers

lmfao i was like lmfao

>>15967522
>Why do you guys hate it so much?
Probably because this is a board with car enthusiasts (people who enjoy driving and cars) and the Tesla is a tailor made transportation appliance for people who HATE everything about driving.
>giant TV screen in the middle of the dash
>"""""auto"""""pilot
>no feeling whatsoever, just silent detached comfort
>no sound
>preached about endlessly by the most insufferable lefty trust fund hipster twats as the second coming of christ on 4 wheels

>>15967522
I will consider buying them when the range is at least 25,000 and it can lap the Nürburgring in under 6 minutes until then it's a piece of shit.

Wont all these cars be fucked in a couple years when the batteries start to go, and that'll be expensive as fuck?

>>15969615
Pretty much.
Not to mention that if you have any issue with your engine, it's back to the factory to have everything changed.
>and then some fucks will argue that Tesla isn't exactly to automobiles what Apple is to computers

>>15969615
>$135,000 car
>worrying about a $15k battery

Because it's the antithesis of a fun car, and because of stuff like this:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s2
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

>>15969627
>Because it's the antithesis of a fun car

I'd guess it's probably the most fun you could have in a car that you DD in an urban area every day.

>>15969634
>>15969634
>DD in an urban area every day.
A car enthusiast wouldn't do this. If you like cars and enjoy driving, why would you live in an urban shithole where driving is pure pain?

>>15967522
They weight about add much as a 2t pick up

>>15969638
>why would you live in an urban shithole where driving is pure pain?
because you have a job that allows you to afford a tesla?

>>15969642
So you'd give up something you love for some boring ugly car and some money?

Literally rebdit the car

>>15969647
yes.

>>15969626
they won't be 135000 forever, and it's going to kill resale value. No one will want a used tesla, not even from a dealer.

>>15967522
Musk is an arrogant piece of shit, and the cars quality sucks.

Also heavy as fuck.

>>15969651
You're a sad materialistic cunt I suppose

>>15967694
Not really braking and turning is more important, for anyone who really races.

>>15969657
Well that's ok, because they're made to be disposable. Completely not user serviceable, full of shit that can't be repaired only replaced, and only able to be worked on by a dealer.

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Fuck that.
I for one am eager to see how this thing turns out. First EV to not be a city vehicule.

>>15969664
yeah fuck me for wanting a retirement fund while you remain a broke NEET for your entire life

>>15969669
Nice false dichotomy you sad, rat-race running bastard. Meanwhile I'll strive to live a fulfilling life I can sustain over time while you sprint to the finish line trying to collect as much money and useless garbage as possible.

>>15969682
you're not in a rat race anymore when you make enough money to buy a $135,000 car. keep on telling yourself a miata is your dream car and enjoy having your job replaced by robots just around the time manually controlling your car becomes illegal. :^)

>>15969668
Wow an EV that isn't designed to be the most boring, greenie-friendly ecomentalist sustainable transportation appliance possible. I didn't think this would ever happen.

>>15969701
There you go with that false dichotomy strawmanning bs again. Fucking sad m8

>>15969709
you started the autism logic first by implying anyone who wants a Tesla is "aww so sad and materialistic fuck this gay earth"

lmao fuck off

>>15967926
Saw these driving around when they were still testeing them and I thought they were awesome.

Then the specs released...

>>15969714
See that's the thing about small minded snobs like you, you can only ever misrepresent anyone who disagrees with you in a thinly veiled attempt to feel superior and justify your desperate struggle to die with a big pile of money and pointless social clout.

>>15969734
"so sad and materialistic fuck this gay earth":the post

lmao nigger have you ever worked a day in your life? be honest.

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>>15969359
Yes lets really race on commercial roads so you and the three other people you race with can brag about your breaking and tuning...

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>>15969666
Yes lets really race on commercial roads so you and the three other people you race with can brag about your breaking and tuning...

>>15969704
A bit of it is probably here so that Morgan can get official funding to develop more EVs (which is good because they probably aren't the most protitable car maker there is) but still it looks fun. And if they come up with an electric version of some of their regular models, something more functionnal than the three wheeler, it would be pretty great.
>you might one day be able to hit the countryside roads in your electric roadster to have the comfiest ride in the world and not worry about fuel expanses
looking forward to that

>>15969773
>not worry about fuel expanses
Fuel isn't expensive enough here for spending tens of thousands extra for an electric car to make any sense

>>15969801
And that's really the problem with electrics for now.
Even EVboxes are far too expensive compared to their regular counterparts.
That said, Tesla is pure jewery. There is "30k for a Renault Zoe" and then there is "100k for an iphone with wheels"

>>15969801
Don't have to worry about oil changes and shit either. Fuel costs are about the same as putting good tires on with an EV. Still not worth it unless you can get a car for ~35k, want a new car anyway (used is a lot cheaper), and plan to drive for at least 200,000 miles.

Also dependent on the vehicle lasting better than a corolla/camry/prius, or the nissan/honda equivalents, which is top kek material. You have to outjapan the Japanese.

EVs could last longer because they are mechanically extremely simple, but Teslas do not currently hold up at all.

>>15969870
The problem is and will remain the batteries. They're expensive as fuck, heavy as fuck, and have terrible longevity. With a battery you have something that starts out brilliant, and with normal use loses capacity quite quickly. So after a few years, your $130,000 car with 200mi range (if you drive gingerly) only has 150mi or so range, and can no longer support the current draw necessary to make advertised horsepower. Battery technology has to improve vastly for electric cars to become mainstream and economically viable.

>>15969895
The drop offs aren't that severe on Tesla packs so far.

I think they're pretty cool, my issue is with the fuccboi fans, they're about as horrible as the ecoboost faggots on here.

>>15969911
But they are only a couple years old.
When you invest that much in a car, you probably don't want it all to lose its capacity in five years.

>>15969911
Give them a few years.

Electric car range ratings make me laugh anyway, because current battery technology still hasn't escaped the fact that the deeper you discharge the battery on a regular basis, the shorter its lifespan is. So your car may have an advertised range that seems pretty cool when you get it, but if you actually use that range, you're actively shortening the lifespan of the battery vs someone who drives just as many miles in a year as you do, but only in short jaunts, keeping it topped up. Even the best lithium batteries show a steep decrease in charge capacity and usable life if you deep cycle them.

>>15969666
>braking and turning are more important on public roads

>>15967604
Call me autistic or edgy, but when people cut me off without signaling, I in turn cut them off then brake check.

I do it on my M3, so I can catch up.

>>15973084

Might as well just run them off the road or do a PITT maneuver.

>>15973084
not really autistic just retarded

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>>15973524
>MFW I have a beat to shit pickup truck with a plow on it and have collected 4 times it's worth casually punting 5 people who have cut me off over the years.

I remember the first time I did it too. Some idiot was trying to merge in front of me and I had this moment of absolute clarity where I thought about it and came to the conclusion that 1 fuck him, 2 nothing would happen to me, and 3 fuck him. Ripped off all the body paneling from the middle of his rear right door all the way up to the headlights.

4 brand new tires when I was on retreads, and a brand new exhaust system, because I drove over his body panel. The cost of brand new replacements for my plow hydraulics when I just swapped out 3 lines. Cost of a new plow blade when my buddy at a metal shop just heated it with a torch and hit it with a sledgehammer for 20 minutes. Full medical checkup. Pocketed 4 grand from the deal. His car was totaled and he got 2 grand in tickets + jail time for suspended license from other tickets.

>MFW my insurance cannot legally go up because of non fault accidents.

>>15973680
you're a fucking mad man

good job though

Mostly Asian mom's and old white people in my area that drive them.

>>15973753
I won't do it on the highway or anything too crazy, but at lower speeds fuck it. 30 mph collisions are nothing, I'm basically driving a tank, and the plow is several hundred pounds of steel. Your car will yield before the frame does, let alone the plow. Plow is a model from the 70s/80s that doesn't have spring guards to fold up under pressure, or any other modern safety feature. Once it's locked in place, the transmission will shred before it gives. Normally bad, but I got a brand new tranny out of it when mine was starting to have issues at ~280k.

Anyone who gets into a game of chicken with someone driving a shitbox is an idiot. There's a very real chance that they don't care about their car, or their life, as much as you care about yours. I don't play games with my car. My truck is a work vehicle on the other hand, and it has so many dents from sliding into trees, rocks, and other miscellaneous shit that it's not worth giving a fuck anymore.

Dash cam and let insurance bitch about it. Not my problem. I've got other vehicles.

>>15967522
Car is okay. Never hear anyone say how much their electric bill jumped afterwards. All that electricity isn't free you fags.

>>15973953
It's cheaper than gas would be unless you drive something that gets at least 50-60 mpg @ ~10 cents a kw/h.

If you get variable rates at night and can get your electricity down into the 5-7 cents per kw/h, your 'fuel' costs per mile are around the same cost per mile as a good set of tires.

The guy is refreshing. He completely gives no fucks about the established oligarchs and the dealer lobbyists. He has a bigger vision than immediate profits that the larger automakers had been lacking. Since then he has woken up the industry. They didn't take his EV cars seriously or EVs in general until he managed to mass produce them with great popularity and now everyone is onboard and catching up. He's also pushing fourth with self driving cars. IDK what to redpill you on. He has been popular to hate on from the start. We even had a presidential candidate go on and on at how much a failure he is and to everyone's surprise he has pulled through. I thought he was fucking ridiculous when he was building what I thought were just cheap retrofitted Lotus cars that were overpriced. I never thought it would ever amount to anything better and just eventually go belly up in a few years.

>>15973953
My aunt has the Leaf and plugs in at home. She never noticed a jump. She charges at night so the cost to charge is at the lowest point when it is charging. She also gets the special parking at the grocery store.

>>15974018
>He has a bigger vision than immediate profits
yeah he only cares about them government enviro bucks, gotta get a hold of dat 4 billion plus being wasted each day

>>15974051
Can you name a single car company that isn't getting government subsidies?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/high-on-the-hog-the-top-8-corporate-welfare-recipients.html/?a=viewall

>>15974080
and tesla pumps out as many cars as ford or gm do? ford and gm are heavily relevant on the glboal stage. if tesla went under the only people who would lose out are the yuppies who bought shitty tesla shares

>>15974087
It's a growing company and they're building the worlds largest battery factory right now. You think they can become Ford overnight? It's amazing they're at where they are right now.

Their growth had been exponential.

>>15967689
Compared to combustion vehicles, electric powertrains are mostly thermally limited. It makes sense to push them harder when your control algorithms are good. You can get truly ludicrous power out of an electric motor as long as you can get the heat out.

>>15974035
In all fairness, a leaf isn't going to consume enough to produce a truly noteworthy jump in consumption.

Your air conditioning probably consumes a similar amount to the car. It's so range and power limited that it's a buck or two a day to charge it. A tesla can easily reach 4-5 dollars a day if you drive a lot, or pay more than $0.15 kw/h.

>>15969657

This was also said for Prius and decade later they're not any cheaper compared to regular cars of that age.

>>15974128
I will also say, however, that battery technology *is* a little behind what it could be for mainstream acceptance. On the other hand, even lithium ion is progressing so fast that it's absurd. $/kWh is decreasing so fast that you could buy a battery pack now and pay 3/4 for that same pack in a year.

>>15974087
They actually employ over 14,000 employees. Not a small number there.

>>15974138
The giant model X "mpge" is around 90

The leaf is is 114 combined

There's some difference.

>seems pretty good for a child if you don't want it to carry your DNA

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>>15974178
the 'mpg' depends on your gas costs, and your electric costs. Tesla's calculations assume a high cost for premium gas. Most cars don't need premium gas, and the prices are even lower than that in most of the US. If you are in Europe things are a bit different, but in the US, the effective MPG frequently comes out to around 60.

Average w/mile consumption is a bit over a third of a kw for an S according to tons of stuff posted on the teslamotorclub forums if you aren't driving aggressively. Lead footing, or speeding pushes it closer to 400 watts per mile, but lets just assume you are content to cruise around. X is going to be a bit higher. Say you pay 12 cents per kw/h, which is not an uncommon number throughout the US. That's just over 4 cents a mile for 'fuel' in an S. Call it a nickel for an X, just to give us a range and some easy math. Gas in much of the country is currently 2.20-240 per gallon. Call it 2.40 because the math works out neatly, it's on the high end, and I don't feel like punching shit into a calculator. To beat the S @ 4 cents per mile your car needs to do 60 mpg. To beat the X, you need to do 48 mpg.

So on fuel costs, a hybrid rav 4 really ain't that far behind an x. Yeah, a rav 4 can't comfortably seat 7, and isn't a luxury car, but the point is that the difference, at least in the states, really isn't all that it's hyped up to be. In places where electricity is more expensive, like 20 cents/kw, it's really nothing to write home about.

If you can get electricity on variable rate plans and pay 6 cents or whatever at night, then it's nice. Not an extra 70,000 nice, but certainly something to look into and consider if you want a high end vehicle to begin with.

>build a car that's more ecologically harmful than any other ICE car
>eco-warriors and other uneducated hipsters buy it anyway because they think it's the future and progressive
and then people say marketing and hype isn't everything

>>15974209
Yeah, I was having some difficulty finding some standard numbers.

>400 watts per mile
That figure doesn't make sense. I've heard of kw/hr per mile, but watts per mile isn't a thing.

>>15974219
400 watt hours. My bad. Fucking close to 4 AM here.

>>15974219
>I've heard of kw/hr per mile
Power per time and length, interesting unit m8

>>15974228
Yeah, it's starting to remind me of compound functions in Calculus

>>15974228
>Force per Time^2 ~ Jerk per time
sounds violent desu

Toyota pioneered this assembly line technique where they slow down the assembly line if someone spots a defect to stop a whole bunch going through.

Tesla implemented this system but now that they can't build cars fast enough they gave it up. Now reliability is going down since they only have like one or two factories and are promising much

>>15974488
like Tesla customers give a fuck about build quality. it's accessory, not a tool.

>>15969942
The battery has an 8 year warranty anyway. There's a Norwegian guy on YouTube that put 150k miles on his model s in 2 years. He does a good job of explaining the true cost of ownership during that time, the issues he's faced, etc.

>>15967687
>Like the cars. Hate the fans.

this

except their interiors

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>walk into tesla dealership in london
>nobody watching over show car
>sit in car
>comfy
>notice big ipad in the center
>get on web browser and open up google images
>search "tesla fire"
>find sauciest pic and enlarge
Good times

>>15976646
kek

>>15967522
Not up to price. Better rides exist for much much less.

>>15976646
this is a REALLY good idea