>looks shit >shit fuel economy relative to its power >absolutely

>>15900824
Why are you beating an already dead meme to death?

>>15900824
>Why are these good again?
Because they got ecoboost. That alone makes it worth owning.
Who the fuck would want to drive some gay little Fiesta ST?

>>15900824
You know goddamn right why the prices are what they are. Here's your (You).

>>15900837
>You know goddamn right why the prices are what they are. Here's your (You).
Nope, why?

>>15900824
I'll take a slightly slower RWD over a slightly faster FWD any day.

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>>15900824
Name a similarly priced car with

>same or lower center of gravity
>same cheap cost of maitenance
>same weight or lower
>RWD
>roof

I'm waiting you fucking idiot

>>15900853
Miata

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>>15900861
frs/brz has lower center of gravity than all miatas

only another car with a boxer engine can match it

Still better than an MD miata

>>15900861
Miatas don't have a roof

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>>15900875
>MD

>>15900878
>Miatas don't have a roof
Are you an idiot? Miatas have roofs. Except the Cup, I think that's roofless.

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>>15900883
You know goddamn well what we meant. A solid roof that is a structural part of the car, i.e. not a soft top or removable hard top.

>>15900889
Sorry I'm not a mindreader, kid. Maybe you should say what you mean and mean what you say. Is English not your first language or are you just illiterate?

>>15900824
>driving a ford
>driving a bmw

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>>15900853
The CHEAPEST GT86 I can find used is a fucking riced out wreck and its £10,989, the second is crashed and is £11,490, the third has done 111,000 miles and is £11,495. To get a one that hasn't done a million miles you need £13,000 minimum.

You honestly think a BRZ/GT86/FRS is the best car you can get your hands on for £13,000? Even at half that price the list of cars you can get that shit all over the BRZ is so enormous it would be a waste of time to even start.

>m-muh new car!

First off no one buys a car new, certainly not anyone on /o/. Second, it's still way overpriced new.

>>15900869
duuuhhh durrr muh center of gravity duhhhrr

>>15900915

Prices aren't that retarded in the civilized world. High school kids here get these new as graduation presents.

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>>15900915
>>15900930
Still waiting for an answer

I can't think of a car that's RWD with a low center of gravity boxer that's cheaper to maintain than a gt86.

Let me know if I'm wrong

>>15900898
>resorts to ad hominem before even attempting to argue
Shiggy.

It doesn't take a psychic to realize what we meant by roof in the context of comparing the BRZ and Miata.

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>>15900941
>Prices aren't that retarded in the civilized world.

lmao kid Britain has one of the best used car markets in the world. Think of a few cars you like, go to Autotrader or Pistonheads and go get asshurt about how cheap cars over over here.

Americunts on suicide watch.

>>15900948
bro you can put coilovers on literally any car and lower the center of gravity

>>15900824
I beat a scion frs in a 1994 cavalier sedan

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>>15900965
a boxer will always be lower than an inline engine

also do the same to the gt86 and it will still be lower

still waiting

>>15900954
>name a car with a roof
>this car has a roof
>no it doesn't count it doesn't fit within my own personal definition of what a roof is
Yeah no, fuck yourself, you stupid faggot. A miata has a roof and it's a better driver's car. Kill yourself.

>>15900970
>I beat a scion frs in a 1994 cavalier sedan
What track?

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>>15900824
Why are these good again?

>Relatively cheap
>Reliable
>Fixed top
>Rwd
>Less than 2800lbs
>Economical
>More than 2 seats
>Low seating position
>Exceptional steering, gear box, throttle respawns
>Grounded to the ground

>>15901036
>>Relatively cheap
Nope
>>Reliable
So are many cars with a lot more power
>>Fixed top
Same as 99% of the cars out there
>>Rwd
Not a unique trait
>>Less than 2800lbs
Fair enough
>>Economical
Nope
>>More than 2 seats
The rear seats are useless
>>Low seating position
Not a unique trait
>>Exceptional steering, gear box, throttle response
Fair enough
>>Grounded to the ground
What?

>>15901049
The question is whether there's ONE car with all these criteria.

Will this shitposting ever end?

>>15901049
>>>Relatively cheap
>Nope

Are you poor? You can pick up a used frs/brz for $17k, thats pocket change.

>>15901036
How much did your parents pay for it?

>>15900824

>comparing price of used car to new car

Fuck off b8fag

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>>15901049
>>Relatively cheap
Nope

I'm pretty sure the FRS is still the cheapest rwd car you can buy with a LSD. IIRC, only the base miata and 4 cylinder camaro are cheaper than the 86.

>>Reliable
So are many cars with a lot more power

Obviously the 86 isn't going to best much in terms of power.

>>Fixed top
Same as 99% of the cars out there

Not so much for new car under 3000lbs.

>>Rwd
Not a unique trait

Not unique, but it is desirable.

>>Less than 2800lbs
Fair enough

Okay

>>Economical
Nope

Yep.

>>More than 2 seats
The rear seats are useless

I use my rear seats every day for my son.

>>Low seating position
Not a unique trait

It's a unique trait for a new car under 30k

>>Exceptional steering, gear box, throttle response
Fair enough

Ok

>>Grounded to the ground
What?

The Game

>>15901022
Still waiting

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>>15901082
I bought it myself.

I also own a home and make over 100k a year.

What have you done with your life anon?

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>>15901036
This

But since there's no hydraulic/manual steering, I'd never buy one

What's the point of having a fun slow car if you can't feel shit. Only one for me now.
>>15901125
>that livery

As a fan of TRD in WRC, this makes me sick. The gt86 doesn't deserve to wear that.

>>15901071
This. Just bought a used 2014 for 16.5k off the meager savings I've put together from working in highschool and college

>>15901142
The steering is pretty great.

The refresh is even better

>>15900960

> Britain has one of the best used car markets in the world

They're cheap because a pinhole sized rust spot will fail inspection and taxes get retarded on older vehicles.

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>>15901156
>The steering is pretty great.

Electric power steering is lifeless, souless, and numb to the core

If you're a true driving enthusiast who wants to feel a true connection to your car and the road, EPS is the fucking evilest devil incarnate and will never provide any true semblance of road feel- never

Take away anything you want on my car, but don't take away steering feel (suspension dampening and throttle response comes second).

>>15900824
Its really fun to drive though, which frankly is the only thing that matters unless you're going to try to make a living racing.

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>>15900824
Do you know any other adjective to describe a vehicle other than "shit"? You sound like a /v/tard.

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>>15901180
I have been nothing but happy with mine since I got it.

>>15901156
an electric motor providing resistance is not road feel

I can literally feel the curvature of the road and every single piece of gravel and deviation in my NA

electric steering can never provide that, just a battery making it hardter to turn the wheel

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Because the cost of ownership of an E46 M3 is totally the same has a new Subaru RWD econo sports car.

You're totally right op, you know everything. Go buy and your used german trash and leave us alone, just dont complain when you have to rebuild the engine or take it to the dealership for a battery replacement.

Manufacturers need to keep up making a sports line, an AFFORDABLE sports line at that. When it is a common problem for enthusiasts and the mainstream drivers complaining that there are no AFFORDABLE, DAILY DRIVABLE sports cars, companies need to address it.

Yes, the Toyoburu isnt fast (6-7 second 0-60 for manual), expensive (25k), but what you get out of it is a reliable, quick, and sporty car. For a RWD coupe of its size, 2800 pounds is the weight of a lot of sport coupes years ago. You get a good trunk, 4 seats, attention to steering/shifter, a tight suspension (that handles greatly), and the economy is very good for what the car is. (24 city, 32 highway.)

Toyota gave us a car that we could afford and have fun with on a daily basis. If other companies can fall into the affordable RWD sports car segment, we may get more options. And no, roadsters arent practical enough.

>>15901199
Whatever you say.

The steering feel in my FRS is much better than my 99 GSR

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>>15901178
>>15901142

I appreciate your taste

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>>15901464
Your GSR's steering components/fluids, wheels/tires, or suspension must not have been up to par then

there is no compare
>>15901490
Thanks man
after doing research on all the Japanese lightweight turbo 4's, I honestly feel the SW20 is superior to the S13-14 and all its competitors in almost every category

I'll be importing a 94-95 GT-S in a few years. It's also a bonus that the cars aren't very popular (no drift tax) so they're also cheaper and there's tons of replacement parts.

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>>15901525
I agree
Thats why im getting a non turbo to ride through college.
Nothing like a rwd corolla for a cheap fun daily

>>15901525
Nope, the car is stock and well maintained.

I've owned a NA miata in the past, and the FRS is also superior to that.

It's silly to assume that just because the car has EPS means that it's inferior

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>>15901560
>It's silly to assume that just because the car has EPS means that it's inferior
>inferior

I never said it was inferior. In fact, EPS is in fact superior when it comes to all out performance.

But, when it comes to driver involvement giving you true feedback from the road, EPS doesn't have a leg to stand on.

In the balancing act of effort, response, and feedback from steering, EPS has no true feedback- period

http://blog.caranddriver.com/steer-clear-what-it-takes-to-have-good-steering-in-an-electric-world/

A good read from the Auto Engineers themselves on the subject
>>15901556
>Thats why im getting a non turbo
I mean, if that's what you want. I read the Beams 3SGE makes 200 so that's nice.

>Nothing like a rwd corolla
No anon, I'm afraid it's too heavy for that...
But still, enjoy it.

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>>15901616
>>15901616
Its like you decided to dissect my post and remove literally all of the context clues from it

Im getting a non turbo because im going to college while working to support myself. I wont have the monetary means to reliably maintain a turbo model, plus it will be my first car that isnt FF, so im buying a non turbo to familiarize myself with the chassis. Then ill step up to a turbo. By the time I can afford it, i will have a lot of driving time under my belt

And despite being heavier it literally is a rwd corolla. Its a corolla engine (5sfe) and transaxle placed at the rear of the car.
I thought you said you did your research on these

>>15901693
Ah, ok

I just don't believe the weight would match a Corolla. Also, I'm only looking at the Japanese speced ones.

>>15900976
who cares?

>>15900948
Are you asking for new or used?
Are you asking for best car to maintain?
Best car to have fun?
You seem to be all over the place

>>15901713
>who cares?
>op literally made a thread to found out

still waiting, not one single answer

>>15901707
It doesnt. Its about 300lbs heavier than a corolla of the same yeah.
I dont have any specs in front of me but id say the non-turbo is about 100-150lbs lighter than that. Any difference in weight is made up for by its superior mid engine layout though.
Even so, power to weight is the only real metric that matters

>>15901731
Name a similarly priced car with

>same or lower center of gravity
>same cheap cost of maitenance
>same curb weight or lower
>RWD
>roof

>>15901733
op doesnt want to find out, he wants to troll boyracing retards like you

>>15901176
>taxes get retarded on older vehicles.
Nope, it's the other way around. Go buy a 2015 WRX and the government will want £1000 in tax a year from you, go buy a 2004 Ferrari Enzo and its £290 a year.

They can't put the tax up on old cars, same as Bill Clinton couldn't take your automatic guns away from you.

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>>15900824
>If you insist on buying new there are any number of quick-ish cars you can pick from that aren't total garbage, any many are way cheaper, for example a Fiesta ST.
>Suggesting a slightly faster FWD econobox over an already fun RWD econobox
Kill you are self

>>15901752
But nobody has provided an answer yet, so who's really getting trolled here

>>15901752
>boyracing
>states facts about the vehicle and acts for another that shares all the same traits??

>>15900824
>E46
>Fun

Pick one

>>15901200
>he fell for the german cars are expensive to maintain outside of NA meme

Must feel bad to be an Americunt.

>>15901758
*asks

>>15901765
kys

>>15901766
not that anon but

In the US, dollar for dollar, BMW/Porsche sports cars do in fact cost more to maintain than a Toyota- period

>>15901737
That weight difference is definitely negligible

I need to read/learn more about wrenching on these. I'm kind of afraid I won't be able to maintain it properly . .

>>15901784
>That weight difference is definitely negligible

Go make two friends and ask them to sit in your car while you drive it.

>>15901142
Good taste.

Guy local to me has an SW20 with the 5S-FE dropped in it with a Turbo, saw him race an obstacle course (gymkhana?) with it. Apparently pushes almost 400hp.

>>15901799
>2 people
>150 lbs

What kind of friends might you be referring to exactly

>>15901784
Well its just like maintaining any other toyota. The US spec 3sgtes are common as hell so parts are plentiful. jdm BEAMS swaps are common, and v6 swaps are less common, but arguably superior.
1mz out of a camry pretty much fixes its weight and power issues, giving you 100% linear power delivery and a fantastic exhaust note out of one of the most reliable v6 engines ever made.
When I can fund one, ill definitely do it. Its a very simple swap, and requires very little in the way of custom work
>>15901799

If your example is going to be accurate you have to do that while moving the engine and transaxle to the back of the car, because thats what we're comparing.

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The same old, slow in a straight line meme. Modify the car to your liking or go buy an ecoboost if straight line speed is all that matters.Though, I don't like how the new one looks (bumper,headlights,taillights,spoiler). The FA20 handles boost well, only issue is retards with bad tunes or ZERO supporting mods blowing engines.

I don't own an 86 but they seem alright to me. One of the cheapest RWD cars on the market, has LSD standard, and is lighter than most cars. I sat in a couple BRZs and they seemed nice enough.

>>15901824
Who the fuck would rather buy a Fiesta?

>>15901893
>Who the fuck would rather buy a Fiesta?

People who like to partayyy

>>15901932
sounds about right
>https://youtu.be/488MP6ygSzQ

>>15900915
>111000 miles in 3 fucking years
Wtf did the guy fucking lived in his car?

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>>15900824

would buy a brz sti right fucking now if they ever made it

god fucking damnit make one already

>>15902010
would you pay 40k for one?

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>>15902010
AKA: I'm too afraid to build my own car.

>>15902027
>Not wanting an engine with a lower compression ratio for boost

>>15902040
conservative tunes can give you a SOLID 300hp which doesn't seem like alot, but really is considering it's under 2.8k lbs

>>15902040
>wants lower compression instead of running e85 for more power on higher compression with turbo
>even if hes stupid and thinks he needs low compression, he's too poor to build the motor
Idiot poor fags. Lrn2 performance build.

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>>15902023

YES

>>15900824
desu this looks like a neat car, I drove it around in Assetto Corsa for the first time and it seemed really neat but now actually seeing the specs and stuff it really seems underwhelming next to a Subaru WRX and Civic Si

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>>15902040
>Boosting a car that was meant to stay NA

>>15902070
woops my bad I thought this was that toyota GT86 in the pic

>>15902055
then everyone else will complain about it being OVERPRICED and unattainable

>>15900824
/o/'s always hated them, so thanks for preaching to the choir.

>>15902051
I'd rather have the lower compression engine for another 5K
>>15902054
E85 is for tryhards and even if you could rebuild it to a lower compression ratio, it would not be the same quality as factory spec.
>>15902074
>Not wanting a retuned lower compression boosted trim variant

Do you even Japanese sports cars?

You all are a disgrace to the heritage of the Japanese turbo sports car

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>>15902074
>meant to stay NA

>>15902091
thisssssssssss

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>>15902091
>then everyone else will complain about it being OVERPRICED and unattainable

If it comes with the 270+hp wrx engine, flared fenders, better brakes and stronger transmission it definitely wouldn't be considered overpriced.

It would probably even be a future collectible and hold its value very well.

>>15902091
for 40k I'd rather buy a WRX STI

>>15902131
>hurr durr could have bought a used porsche

>>15902131
too bad it'll never have any of that

It has nothing over a WRX currently

>>15902139
It wont cost as much as an STi because it wont have a bullshit over complicated pigfat AWD system
Not saying its bad, but its bad if you want your car to be cheap

>>15902148
>AWD
>bad
you can adjust the differential to put all the torque to the back so its pretty much RWD at that point

>>15902154
God its like you didnt even read my fucking post

>>15902139
>for 40k I'd rather buy a WRX STI

it won't be as FUN though

>>15902161
I'm just saying, for 40k and adding all those features it'd still be better just to get the new sti

the BRZ is redundant like Honda's HRZ is redundant in the face of the CRV

86 Twins are great except for their torque but as soon as you start adding power via turbo or supercharger it all goes to shit.

>>15902195
Edelbrock makes 250rwhp reliably on the street and is CARB legal, what more could you want?

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>>15902172
>a rwd coupe and a awd sedan is totally the same driving experience guys

Lol, get the fuck outta of here.

>>15902203
Something that doesn't cost a fifth of the damn car.

>>15900824
If you're buying new you don't have much of a choice. It's this or a Miata in the price bracket for FR.

Used varies with your market. Could get a clean S13 180SX or S15 Spec-R imported for less, or a clean Supra or GTO.

For the same price? Probably an immaculate R33 GT-R.

The used shit around here would be much cheaper but in worse condition also.

>>15902249
What about the Fiat 124?

>>15902070
>>15902076

Is this a really subtle troll?

>Scion is dead
So who will be the brand in America now?

>>15902244
The edlebrock is 5k.

You can buy a clean twin for 20k now.

How many other cars could compete with 250hp and 2775lbs for a reliable track car?

>>15902278
Did they drop to 20k? I thought they were still 24k easy.

>>15902255
Haven't seen one over here yet, and it slipped my mind entirely.

Fiata's another option for new around the price though it'll probably get hiked up a little more too.

>>15902276
>So who will be the brand in America now?

Kia and Fiat

Expect more beats by dre super sub audio systems, quirky styling, ah sunroofs- so sporty looking :), lowest quality shitboxes you can shake a stick at

Still waiting for the first person to blow their engine on the 124 abarth

>>15902309
>>>15902276 (You)
>>So who will be the brand in America now?
>Kia and Fiat
They are ownet by Toyota? So it would be the Kia or Fiat FRS?
>Still waiting for the first person to blow their engine on the 124 abarth
1.6l Turbo is also in Ford Fiesta ST...and the Fiat 1.4l Turbo is years old

>>15902333
Oh didn't understand the question. It's Toyota and Subaru

The Ford turbo is almost a straight Mazda rip. Fiat engines are gonna start blowing up like hotcakes when tuners start fiddling with them.

>>15902333
>They are ownet by Toyota? So it would be the Kia or Fiat FRS?
I think he took it as "what will be the brand for paste-eating retards in America".

>>15902341
>The Ford turbo is almost a straight Mazda rip
This gives me the shits because it means Mazda has no excuse not to offer turbo models right now.

>no turbo Miata
>no turbo Mazda3

>>15902341
>>>15902333 (You)
>Oh didn't understand the question. It's Toyota and Subaru
Oh ok
>The Ford turbo is almost a straight Mazda rip. Fiat engines are gonna start blowing up like hotcakes when tuners start fiddling with them.
Where is Mazda turbo then?!

>>15902342
>>>15902333 (You)
>>They are ownet by Toyota? So it would be the Kia or Fiat FRS?
>I think he took it as "what will be the brand for paste-eating retards in America".
Lel. Is the BRZ really superior to the FRS?

>>15902293
Not even 20k. I see them on my local Craigslist for 15k. At that price I think it's a pretty good deal for a 2013.

>>15902489
Can confirm. Milwaukee CL shows plenty of 2013 FRS' at 15k.

>>15902377
The FRS is cheap shit while the BRZ has good options like heated seats and stuff the FRS is just trash sempai desu

The only reason people buy them is because it's rwd and with stock wheels easy as fuck to lose grip. So every boyracer can feel like Ken Block while going 10 mph.

>>15900824
I saw a piece a few months back from the of the r&d managers at Toyota. What happened was they listened to the autistic ae86 fanboys and Autoblog, so that's who they developed a car for. Then

>$28,000
>2800lbs

ded

>>15902587
>Needing heated seats and dual climate

shouldn't you be driving the kids to soccer practice?

>>15902710
>lol look at me guize aren't I cool having the poverty package I'm a real rayser now xD
FRS weighs and costs the same but has less options. It sucks.

>>15900869
A rotary might be able to

>>15902720
>GT86 with rotary
Why has nobody done this?

>>15902720
You missed the original point of that post, see >>15901748

>you cant enjoy this car cause i dont like it
Wah wah Wah, cry more. Brz is a cheap fun car that handles amazing.

>>15900853
>>same cheap cost of maitenance
>boxer engine
>cheap maintenance

HAha! no.

>>15902971
>HAha! no.

Just because it's impractical doesn't mean it's not still cheap. Even overall it is still cheaper.

I noticed you didn't suggest an alternative

Still waiting

>>15902984
>I noticed you didn't suggest an alternative

Loaded "question" detected

State Parameters for said hypothetical "Alternative"

>>15903012
see >>15901748

2016 V6 Mustang is $1000 cheaper than the FRS and is way better. The 2016 Mustang GT is only $8000 more expensive and is much more better with the V8.

Save the headache; buy Ford

>>15903065
A mustang is still a mustang

>>15903073
Yea. It's cool.

>>15903078
It's still heavy and handles poorly, even 370z is better choice

>>15903111
>heavy
Yea from all the coolness
>handles poorly
This isn't the 80s

>>15902731
>single turbo 13b GT86

m u h d i c k

>>15903111
>>handles poorly,
>has never driven one.
>would still beat a BRZ around the track

>>15903130
Wasn't even talking about a BRZ, if you could read o suggested 370z

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>>15903073
>>15903111
>this faggot doesn't know about the Shelby GT350R

>>15903157
A bloated mustang with big engine, I'd rather get an F-type for that money

>>15903169
>bloated Britshit is somehow better than bloated Amerishit
Lmao

>>15903198
I don't expect either bloated ones to handle well, so I pick the one with better looks and sound

>>15903203
>supercharged V6
>boring blobiness
>better

>>15903212
It's alot cooler and not on every intersection

>>15903117
>This isn't the 80s

Didn't the Mustang lose the solid rear axle only a year ago? That's a lot of can't turns.

>>15903227
Fair point. I'm just very partial to roaring V8s and a bit of trolling.

I haven't even seen anything about the F-Type but you got me interested desu.

Poor manchildren phone posting from their bus stop benches waiting to go to their minimum wage jobs will forever be upset by what is otherwise a pretty cool car that actual experienced drivers can appreciate :)

>>15903261
65k for a base RWD manual V6, the V8 is AWD and paddles

>>15903316
Even though I said it was shit, supercharged V6 mite b cool.

>>15902731
Because all rotaries engines are fucking shit. Why would you want a GT86 that went just as fast but now gets 1/4 the fuel economy?

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>>15901124
Not that guy but any track would do.

>>15902040
It's the same engine that is in the WRX, only with the turbo removed

>>15903368
Scion FR-S
>4U-GSE
>compression ratio is 12.5:1
Subaru BRZ
>FA20D
>Compression Ratio: 12.5:1

2015+ USDM Subaru WRX
>FA20F
>Compression Ratio: 10.6:1


You kids really have a lot to learn, stay in school

The FR-S is only $25K. For that price it's competing with the base model Miata with no LSD or any other goodies. The Miata Club costs $30K. For that price you can super/turbocharge the FR-S.

>>15903420
Fiat

124

Stop trying to force air where it doesn't belong

>>15902139
>WRX/STI is way heavier than a BRZ, like 500 pounds heavier
>WRX is ugly as fuck
>The STI's driver controlled diff cannot make it fully rwd, i believe max split is 65/35

>>15903433
>>The STI's driver controlled diff cannot make it fully rwd, i believe max split is 65/35

who cares?

if it could go 100/0 the diff would explode within 10000 miles, its a idiotproofing mechanism, we know how dumb WRX owners are.

>>15903414
What do these numbers and letters mean for dumbshits like me?

>>15903433
>i believe max split is 65/35

Might as well just call it "drift mode" now

>>15903065
>attempts to suggest an alternative for a 2,800 pound car
>decides a 3,800 pound car would be a suitable option

You're retarded. Like, literally retarded.

>>15903493
Take the rear seats out and a bit of the sound deadening and its a 3000 pound car easy.

>>15903458
http://www.xcceleration.com/cr-boost%20101.htm

>>15903332
If you're going through the trouble to swap a rotary into a car chances are that fuel economy isn't one of your main concerns

>>15903353
It's pretty clear that you don't understand the question you're answering.

>>15903504
If swapping a rotary into a GT86 seems like a good idea then your mental health probably isn't one of your main concerns.

>>15903445
The point is that suggesting the STI as a viable alternative to a turbocharged BRZ is dumb because one car is RWD and the other isn't.

>>15903458

The top two are the same engine with a different code for each manufacturer. The WRX engine is from the same family, with the main differences being a Subaru sourced direct injection system and a turbo mounted underneath.

The FA20F will not fit in the BRZ without altering placement of the turbo and rerouting the exhaust since the FA20D is mounted much lower in the engine compartment because it doesn't need to clear a front differential.

>>15903498
Because the rear seat and sound deadening weight 800 pounds, right?

>>15903531
Amerifats have realllllly sensitive ears anon, and of course our cows leather is naturally fatter :^)

>>15903524
Lol careful all the kids driving their moms 2.5l foresters are gonna tell you about why awd is superior on the dry paved roads that lead back from their drivers ed class

>>15903527
I believe all you have to do to get the compression ratio in the WRX would be e to swap the BRZ/FRS rods & pistons with the WRX rods & pistons

>>15903545
All you have to do is wrap your lips around the exhaust pipe and suck it down

>>15903431
>where it doesn't belong
Get a fucking tune and it's ok

>>15903540
Superior in reality over FWD when powering out of corners, but on a slow as shit car it doesn't make that much difference.

>>15903647
Did you learn that from your mother sucking on my "exhaust pipe"? You don't know a pushrod from a OHC my man. Kys

>>15903667
>what is final compression ratio

The higher the final compression ratio the higher the octane rating of the gasoline must be in order to help prevent detonation and serious engine damage.

Even if you got a tune the psi would need to be set so low on pump gas, it's not worth it.

Depending on where you live, higher octanes are just not feasible and in most cases annoying to find (especially in rural areas where, you know, the best roads are).

>>15903696
Forgot to add

Final compression ratios above 12.4 to 1 are highly not recommended for use with premium pump gasoline due to said detonation and engine damage

IDK why people say it's expensive, it really isn't.

The issue is why you'd buy a car that's basically a RWD econobox with poor quality tires from the factory.

>>muh track days

hahahah yeah i bet all those WRXs owned by vapers are being driven around rally courses all the time, too.

>>15903778
If the early 2000s' FWD coupes were RWD wouuld the GT86 be as popular?

>>15901176
Not true. Rust only fails the MOT if it compromises an important structure. The MOT is actually retardedly easy to pass, you can pass one without a windscreen if you also have no wipers.

>>15901693
The 5S-FE is a worthless engine. Just buy a Corolla if you're considering that motor

>>15904023
>Just buy a Corolla if you're considering that motor
What a stupid suggestion. If given the choice between two cars with the same engine, why would you choose the boring FWD car over the sporty mid-engine car? That makes no sense at all.

>>15903696
>>15903710
You don't need huge boost pressure to get a 200hp motor up to 270hp, which is all it needs to really come alive.

>>15904062
7psi brings the BRZ up to 300bhp

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>>15904087

>>15904087
>>15904107
How the fuck does that work?
My WRX has 278hp at the stock 20 psi, and the BRZ which has pretty much the same engine makes 300hp at only 9psi?

>>15904283
because your wrx doesn't just make power at the top end

>>15904283
Oh, wait I think I see why. That BRZ must be running a fairly larger turbo? My WRX hits peak hp at like 3.500 or 4,000 due to the little turbo spooling up at lower RPM's with more boost where as that BRZ is hitting it at 7,000 because it takes a lot of air to spool up the bigger turbo.

Or some shit like that.

>>15904299
well the thing is the rest of the engine is different, most importantly the head and cams.
your wrx probably would make 120hp without the turbo.

>>15903687
You probably know all about rods pushing right up your ass lol

>>15904314
Are they really that different? I was under the impression that they were fairly similar aside from the BRZ using a different piston/rod set to raise compression to be better suited for NA

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>>15900836
W-what?

Did I misunderstand, or did this anon just say the gt86 has ecoboost?

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>>15900915
I buy new cars, I'm currently on /o/ I think.

But I'm the asshole who buys new cars, drives them for 1-2 years, and then sells them and buys some other new car.

Or a boat.

I'm gonna get a boat.

>>15904735
>he doesn't know about ecoboosted BRZs
Where have you been for the past year and a half?

Anyone that thinks the GT86 or BRZ is the end all be all of "fun driving" doesn't have enough experience to actually make that claim.

>>15904743
I'm with you, I only buy new cars. But I find it funny that there's people here who will call us stupid for buying new cars instead of used cars... but those idiots fail to realize that it's people like us who make it possible for them to buy their poorfag used cars. Because all cars have to be bought new before they can become used cars.

>>15905372
>somebody has to be stupid for others to benefit from it
>this guy is proud of being said stupid guy
Ok

>>15905386
>Being this butthurt about someone else being able to afford better things than you

Here's a tip: get a real job and make more money, Then you wouldn't be forced to buy cheap used cars and be jealous of the nice things that other people own.

>Car is pretty good stock
>Decent stock tires, but ugly wheels
>Maintenance is cheap and the car is reliable
>Cheap gook interior, but it still looks better than most stuff thrown on the market
>Low center of gravity
>Fun to drive and handles well
>Entirely modular
>Can Make 250whp+ with a turbo
>Impressive aesthetics for a car below 30K
>Plenty of room(Interior and engine bay)

The only other things you will find that are similar in that price range is a used 370Z or a Miata. 370Z is expensive to mod and Miatas are for manlets and gays.

>>15900824
Have you ever bought a 5-10 year old performance car? You're going to be dumping money into some form of repairs within the first few months, and it will continue ad infinitum. I prefer to do that, but I totally understand why someone would go for the Toyobaru.

>>15900824
I agree that the may be a bit overpriced now. But the point of the car is to be the skeleton of a super car, not a finished product. If you want a complete package car then yes you should buy an E46 M3 or something like it. People buy a BRZ as a project. You're paying for the low center of gravity, the stock LSD, the no nonsense interior that might get ripped out anyway. Buy design it is a platform for customization and not a finished product.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

>>15902027
>>15901186
>>15900948
ENOUGH ALREADY. here we ago again the classic GUNK exchange between the usual suspects: septic-kin spewing hate and bad words with their TOILET LIPS and small boys with big mouths and tucked in red shirts with the blue stripes. I AM FED UP AND TIRED OF THIS DEBATE. we all know that the 2014 Toyota Cribdeath in NA has a lower center of gravity due to all of the abusive mommies and daddies i have tied up in the backseat and i will drive them to the nearest social center where they will be judged for their heinous crimes. abusive parents do horrible things to be like pulling on my foreskin and sticking it with pins and putting gunpoweder in my food as a pseudo lobotomy. I HAVE HAD IT and since the evidence is CLEARLY here in balck and white and you choose to ignore it, it makes me upset that dubble bubble clownshoe wearing fucks like you exist to mentally torture me and make me scream (like i didnt have enough mental stress already)

just scram and go for a walk, seriously, you're tempting me to brush up on my swordsmanship and perfect my already potent murder tactics

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>>15905485

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But really /o/, BRZ or FRS??

>>15900853
Also standard LSD.
$25000 for 200 horses, LSD, and rwd is fair as fuck.

The only improvement I could see is next time going 1.6 turbo for fuel economy and upgrades.

>>15905812
>The only improvement I could see is next time going 1.6 turbo for fuel economy and upgrades.
Fuck that, keep the 2.0 and put an OEM turbo on it. It's what everyone wants anyway. Call it "Envirocharge" or whatever to appeal to stupid greenies.

Call it the "86 Turbo" and raise the price by a couple thousand. It would sell because people really do want that bit of extra power and torque.

>>15905838
That would be a nice option but would most likely push the costs up to 30000. Why not have both? 200hp 32mpg turbo 1.6 and a 300hp 25mpg turbo 2.0.

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>>15905930
Excellent idea

>"Turbo Sport" 200HP 1.6 Turbo
>"N/A Sport" 200HP 2.0 Naturally Aspirated
>"Turbo SuperSport" 300HP 2.0 Turbo

>>15904062
>>15904087
>>15904107
For an engine with a Compression Ratio: 12.5:1

Anything even remotely over 1 psi would require an octane above premium- period

For example
Final Compression Ratio (FCR) = [(Boost/ 14.7) +1] x CR

>engine compression ratio: 11.0:1
>Boost (in pounds per square inch): 4 PSI
Final Compression Ratio would be 14.0
Final compression ratios above 12.4 to 1 are awful for use with premium pump gasoline, which would require the use of an octane above premium gas in the US

This is even worse for the GT86 since the engine has a even higher compression ratio than the example I just used

>>15900960
I live in the UK. Central England to be specific.
I know I'm a meme for saying this but I can't find affordable JDM cars here that I actually want. I just passed and am look for a run around, I might have to get a golf or something.

Am I a bad person for wanting a 180sx that isn't the automotive equivalent of a washed up porn star.

>>15906097
Altitude does play a role in determining compression ratios. If the altitude in the area where the vehicle is driven is significantly higher than sea level then the compression ratios will vary.

>Correct Compression Ratio = FCR minus [(altitude/1000) x 0.2]

Generally speaking, the results are still the same. Boosting a high compression engine is stupid if you want to stay on pump gas.
And even if you don't, good fucking luck being able to always find high octane fuel anywhere/anytime.

>>15905838
>>15905930
>>15905940
You would still need to lower the compression ratio to run pump gas

Toyota does not want to have more than one engine configuration for the FRS.

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it must suck for the fans of this pile of junk that my slightly chip tuned 3 liter DIESEL is faster, better as a dd, has a nice and comfy interior (personal opinion on this though) and does excellent mpgs.oh damn.

>>15906097
>>15906214
>>15906251

Plenty of people run the JRSC and Edlebrock SC reliably at the track with factory compression and pump gas...

>>15900847
1.5 seconds slower than a mazdaspeed3 isn't slightly slower, its way slower.

>>15901117
>I use my rear seats every day for my wife's son.
kek.

Honestly the shit engine is the only factor of the 86 family that is really terrible.
The fact is your getting a reliable ish, warranty protected, safe car for sub 30K. You get a 90s car with similar intentions and you just get an old plastic rattling shitbox

>>15906323
I'm pretty sure when I say "my son" it implies that he came from my sperm.

Do you have a secret cuck fetish anon?

>>15906313
What PSI? What Octane fuel? What is the altitude?

You use the word ***reliably***, but in reality, if you run premium gas on a final compression ratio above 13-14

You are damaging your engine

>>15906351
Lol its really sad how much some ppl fixate on the cuck meme

>>15906313
Their engines probably have a lower compression or they run higher octane fuel

The fact is, no one ever mentions/explains it and that's the problem
And if they don't, they don't know of the consequences

>>15906373
It's not a meme. It's just 4chan lingo nowadays.

No different than "faggot", "nigger", or "autist". Not even 2 years ago you had people complaining about the misuse of "autism" and look now, it's just like any other insult here. Cuck even went through a chan-wide filter just like nigger did.

I wonder what stupid insult will be the next big hit.

>>15906351
not really, just find the 'my wife's son' lingo quite amusing.

Anyway, that rear seat, 2+2, will become useless once the fruit of your loins grows and becomes larger. I guess it fits a role for new parents. But to call it a 4 seater is pretty missleading.

>>15902276
Toyota 86

>>15906366
>>15906391
Go on the forums and you will see plenty of people making 250rwhp on stock compression and pump gas. Obviously your tune is very important.

Thanks to the direct injection you can use e85 and gain considerably more power while still using factory compression.

>>15906434
A 3 seater is probably a more accurate term. Which is way more than a miata can do.

>>15906489
>>15906434
Let's get real, the only reason so many sports cars have rear seats is because insurance thinks more seats = safer driving and therefore less insurance cost. If insurance companies didn't care about seats they wouldn't have seats. In fact they'd probably end up as a hatchback.

>>15905372
You are what is called a "useful idiot"

And to top things off, you are proud of it!

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>>15906489
>Go on the forums and you will see plenty of people making 250rwhp on stock compression and pump gas. Obviously your tune is very important.

Yes you can make power, but you are still damaging your engine. The octane for the final compression ratio is not high enough to prevent detonation and does in fact damage the engine.

>Thanks to the direct injection you can use e85

e85 is a HIGH OCTANE FUEL!

e85 octane rating
>100 to 105 octane
Premium octane rating
>91 to 93 octane

And like I said, it makes more sense to stay on pump gas if you want to drive in rural areas (where e85 is almost non-existent for hundreds of miles)

>>15906532
So what are you just SOL if you want to make more power? I know savagegeese kind of talked about this in his supercharged FRS series.

>>15907334
>So what are you just SOL if you want to make more power?

No, it just means if you want to use a lower octane rating fuel while running a high octane boost application

You'll have to stay off boost 24/7 which is annoying.
Also you'll have to carry around gas canisters of E85 if you plan to go to an area where they don't sell it (or any other 99+ octane fuels).

>>15907574
So in other words you're SOL. That sounds unfeasible.

>>15906274
>comparing a station wagon to a sport coupe

fucking LOL

>>15903261
>>15903327
>doesn't know the eargasm that is an f-type

https://youtu.be/f58d-ng8ow8

https://youtu.be/_J1m3oOqtqc

>>15906097
FCR=PRxSCR

>>15909997
Sounds shit.

Why did people reply to this?

>>15911304
Why did you?

Kill yourself.

>>15911386
I saged so i wouldnt bump it you fucking idiot.

>>15910016
no

The formula for calculating your exact Final Compression Ratio is:

Final Compression Ratio (FCR) = [(Boost/ 14.7) +1] x CR

>>15904747
>>15900836
B-but isn't Ecoboost Ford?

I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers have used Ecoboost engines, but doesn't the 86 use a flat four?

Or am I just retarded?

would buy a used bmw i20 over this, would buy a lot of things over this

>>15900976
filename kek

>>15911443
It's a meme.

>>15911542
>5 year old pigfat muscle car with solid rear axle only does 1 second worse than a brand new "sports" car with LSD
wew lad

>>15911392
Obviously you fucking clown but don't you have a bus to catch rather than waste your time saging threads on /o/?

Like I said, kill yourself.

>>15900824
Engine is really tough. Realistically 7-8 grand away from 380 whp. Considering it costs about 7 grand less than a Mustang GT I think that is a rather good deal.

>>15901125
You wish you owned a celica all trac instead of a gt85

>>15901199
You are an idiot. I don't know why I come to this board. I feel like if you don't work as an automotive engineer you shouldn't be allowed to shit post about shit like this.

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>>15901125
That livery is sweet. It's a shame the GT86's facelift front bumper is so fugly.

>>15911669
EPS has to use "sensors" in order to "simulate" what a true hydraulic/manual steering system does naturallys

EPS is garbage for a true driving enthusiast

>>15911542
>car weighs a thousand pounds less
>is barely faster around a course that's literally all turns

>>15911587
who doesn't, the celica all-trac was a fucking monster

>>15911958
>>15911552

>V8 mustang got beat by a 4 cylinder on prius tires

everybody point and life

>>15911965
not that anon, but

I actually prefer the GT-Four

>>15911912
No true Scotsman uses electric power steering

>>15911980
It's the same thing, isn't it? The US models were named All-Trac and the Japanese models were named GT-Four?

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>>15900843
Jews

>>15911996
I meant between the ST185 and S205 (next gen fixed lights)

>>15911554
Why didn't you sage your replies?

>>15900824
If this thing had an option for a proper turbo four meant for ridiculous boost like the 4G63T it'd be awesome.

>>15912126
Toyota wanted "reliability/fuel economy/safety" hence why no turbo and high compression

Just look at when they stopped making the 3SGTE and why

wait, what am i missing is the BRZ the same car as the GT86?

>>15912126
You can swap in a WRX/STI motor in with little to no alterations and boost it to the moon

>>15912147
Different bumper/lights/standard options

>>15912147
yeah, have you been in a coma for the last 4 years?

>>15912166
which is cheaper 2nd hand?

>>15912177
No only the last 3.

>>15911912
NSX, S2000, RX8 all had EPS. Everyone thought they had amazing steering feel blah fucking blah.

It wasn't until it became a standard thing, and shitty ones came out (thanks Porsche) that ludites and idiots came crying that old shit is better.

The problem is the design of many typical EPS, including on the BRZ is that it isn't inline with the steering rack. EPS from the S2000 and RX8 do and as a result they have amazing feedback.

Learn some, understand that one, two, or ten shitty engineered versions doesn't make it inherently worse, and stop being a luddite.

>>15912345
>RX8
>good steering

kys (kill you're self)

>>15912345
>The problem is the design-

The problem is there is no true FEEDBACK

There have been numerous threads on all the Honda forums about this. The feedback derived from EPS is electric motor simulated and garbage compared to hydraulic/manual when it comes to true road feel- period

>>15912351
Just educating you. I know weak minds get offended when they are wrong. It is okay, I am sure your care taker will be back shortly.

>>15912401
You do realize all the feedback you get, unless you are driving a car pre 1930s, was specifically engineered into the car? It doesn't just happen.

>>15912351
>kys (kill you're self)

Thats: (kill yourself)

kys.

>>15912449
Electric motors produce an awful lot of torque, and from 0 rpm. Hydraulic fluid, on the other hand, can be compressed and squished around. When even a pebble gets in the way of the sidewall, a hydraulic system is more likely to transfer the twitch into the steering rack, up the steering shaft, and into the steering wheel. The greater and more consistent torque of an EPS, on the other hand, is more likely to fight that twitch and mask the pebble.

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I love mine.

went to have it weighed today. its at 1200kg/2600 pounds now, with half a tank of petrol in it. so its lost a bit of weight with just a basic strip in the back, wheels and new intake

>>15912553
Retard, kill yourself.

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>>15912688

friendly today are we

>>15912549
That is why designing and calbirating them is so important.

Old american hydraulic units were horrible.

Properly engineered eps are just fine

>>15912699
>That is why designing and calbirating them is so important.

To get the same feel you would need a shit load of expensive sensors in order for it to equal the EXACT same natural sensing/motion of hydraulic fluid

Hence, why cheap sportscars with EPS will always be shit because a bunch of highly accurate sensors are needed.

Those sensors are going to be buggy and a shit load more expensive to replace than a hydraulic system.
You'll never be able to get an EPS car under $50K that comes close to feedback of a hydraulic system

>>15912739
But dude EPS is way better you save a dribble of fuel every 100 miles it's worth it.

>>15912695

whats the NVH like with this?

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>>15912770

quite raw, but i don't mind.

in fact I kinda like it. every day it reminds me of the first AE86 I drove. rotten and stripped out, even had a hole in the footwell. loved that and I'm loving this spectacle too.

ordered a rev. rs greddy too, gonna run it with borla UEL. it'll be loud enough to wake the dead.

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>>15912770

although, i still haven't driven it stripped during winter

thats gonna be a handful with no weight in the back and some 30 more horses on the wheels.

>>15912553
lol a Fiesta ST weighs 1250kg from the factory, consider suicide.

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>>15912553
I love those new wheels you've gotten for it

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>>15912799

I got a lighter, faster RWD car with a diff and massive aftermarket support

why should I consider suicide?

>>15912807

thanks a bunch, ridding myself of OEM parts every day now, finally got money to piss away into the wind again.

long time no see by the way. how you doing?

>>15901753
The new tax system is so fucking great for the used market. Buynewfags gonna get rekt at the handover from April next year. Based.

>>15900824
We get it you are jealous move on with your life.

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>>15912858
Yep. The tax on new Range Rovers is obscene, but I guess if you can afford a Range Rover you probably don't care anyway.

On the other hand, the WRX STI is now a dead car as far as the UK market is concerned. No one is going to pay the max tax band for a car so cheap making so little power. It's going to need updating to a more modern engine.

What is it about these diamond dozen minivans threads that makes Toybaru owners and fans come out of the woodwork to defend it?

These threads are just like lolcantturn and BTFO threads. They're meaningless mindless /o/ letting off faggotry steam. But holy shit Toyobarufags are ALWAYS super defensive and desperate. They even post pics of their own cars like "Look at me guys, do you like me yet". It's pathetic. Lol.

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>>15912929
Look at me guys, do you like me yet

>>15912905
It's also gonna rape people who lease expensive cars to save cash because. I can't fucking wait.

>>15912955
Still is shit at the end of the day, more tax isn't good. The £505 tax bracket is the reason post-2004 RX8's are practically free.

>>15912951
i mean, realistically isnt getting a GTR just the better option instead of a brz? performance wise and pretty much everything beside weight.

>>15913060

I can't really afford a GTR. they're like 3 times the price.

a BRZ you can trash, and maintenance and repairs will be dirt cheap, I couldn't live with myself if I did the same with any GTR.

drove a R35 nismo last fall. its nice but you feel really isolated in it. and for a guy with broad shoulders, the seats were really too narrow.

>>15900869
>Turn engine sideways to lower CoG
>Have to raise entire engine to clear the sump and exhaust manifold
>CoG is now higher than a Miata
>Have to put the entire engine in front of the shock tower to clear the almost comical width, even with mcstruts
>MoI is now higher than a Miata
Are Subaru engineers actually retarded, or is this just another case of marketing running the show?

>>15913110
>>CoG is now higher than a Miata

its not?

>Have to put the entire engine in front of the shock tower to clear the almost comical width, even with mcstruts

its not?

>>MoI is now higher than a Miata`

its dont

go look up a diagram.

>>15912228
Well the Toyota 86 wasn't available in the US until like last month when Scion went under so there aren't really any second hand ones yet.

But between the Scion FR-S and the Subaru BRZ, the Scion tends to be slightly cheaper.

>>15913092
I'm not aware of the BRZ price so thats my bad but a 2009 GTR is 30 to 40k euro where I live, and i remember seeing a BRZ for like 35k? i believe it was much newer doe.

>>15913145

35k euro is kinda steep, they usually go for 25k euro/pounds in europe.

got mine for even less, as it used to be a dealership demo car during release.

used, as low as 13k for a well maintained manual.

>>15912549
And on the other end of the spectrum, the hydraulic fluid in a hydraulic power steering system actually acts as a damper, which lowers the amount of feedback delivered to the steering wheel. Where as an electronic steering system is capable of delivering more accurate & precise feedback IF the system is engineered properly because it can send feedback directly to the wheel with nothing in between to dampen it.

The problem of dead steering isn't an inherent flaw in an electric power steering system, it's just a result of not implementing to it's best potential. They are capable of being equal to or better than hydraulic systems when done correctly.

>>15912799
The only person who should consider suicide is the one who when presented with two cars, one rear wheel drive and the other front wheel drive, chooses the front wheel drive car.

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>>15913124
The NA and NB Miatas has a CoG height of 17-18", depending on year (there were a lot of ride height changes), and Mazda claims that the ND has the lowest CoG of any Miata. Compare that to the FR-S's 18.1".

>its not?
The strut towers are about even with the rear cylinders on the FR-S. It's better than the WRX's overhanging engine, but it's a far cry from the FMR layout of the NC and ND.

>its dont
It does. It has more overall length (167" compared to 154"), more overhanging length (66" versus 63"), and has more overall weight (2750 lbs compared to 2350). Not to mention the engine overhang.

>>15912929
>diamond dozen
This level of stupidity displayed in uttering these two simple words negates the credibility of everything you are ever going to say from now until the day you die.

>>15913174
>the hydraulic fluid in a hydraulic power steering system actually acts as a damper, which lowers the amount of feedback delivered to the steering wheel

That is completely incorrect

EPAS 'cleans' out anything above 15Hz, the 'acceptable' range for feedback is apparently 11-15Hz. An HPAS would feed back as much as double that, which is the intuitive nth degree of 'feel' we all harp on about. To put this into context inputs at the wheel end are typically 0.5Hz, 1.0Hz for a high-speed correction.

>>15913174
It hardly acts as a damper at all. It actually does a better job of transferring the kinetic energy of the feedback because of fluid dynamics. In a hydraulic system they're also less mechanically complicated therefore there is less mechanical and vibration losses, thus mute kinetic energy is passed onto the steering wheel as feedback.

>>15913174
Imagine you were to keep adding steering lock during a constant radius turn with a conventional HPAS or non-assisted system. The rack force increases with lateral G and slip angle but tails off as the tire runs out of grip - that sickening lightening at the wheel that tells you you're understeering.
On its own an EPAS system doesn't recognise this. It simply says 'steering angle x, speed y, assistance force z' and can't 'read' that loss of grip, unless you tell it to. Which designers say it does, through that 'bottom up' system and a contrived reduction in rack force to simulate - yes, simulate - the sense of feedback at the wheel.

EPAS is simulated and not true feedback anon

>>15912905
It should be getting a new engine next model year (a more powerful variant of the new powerplant they put in the base WRX)

>>15913206

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=579442

straight from the mx fanboys themselves

cog is .4 inches lower on the 86 compared to the ND

as for your other claims, go read up on it, if you cant even find proper numbers for your miatas im not gonna bother to be totally honest.

>>15913256
Never driven a car with EPAS hard, not knowing when the car is understeering must be scary. Even cars with totally dead steering like Audi's you can feel the front going straight away, it's past of what makes them easy to drive fast.

>>15912866
Only good post ITT.

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>>15900976
good fucking god thats ugly

>>15904363

NA engine cam profiles will generally be different then a turbos engines, especially if its geared towards MOAR REVS. Turbos are more mid-range, or max torque just above high idle for muh economy.

>>15900915
>those tabs

Not as funny when you're browsing incognito like a pussy.