FUCK /o/, is there really not a compact-midsize modern SUV capable

>>15832294
>2016
>not bumping cassettes like it's the early 90's

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The fuck you want to do that pic related can't accomplish

i dont think you understand how offroading works, son

Xj Cherokee

>>15832294

A Colorado with a box cap or a Jeep is really all you got to choose from.

>>15832387
made in this decade plz
>>15832368
lel @ differentials
>>15832376
>calls son -check , offers baseless criticism without reasoning -check, offroading thread- check
old fart who hasn't offroaded this side of '99 detected

Suzuki XL7/Grand Vitara.

>>15832409
Do you want a reliable, sturdy, capable vehicle or a mom mobile made of plastic inside and out with xm radio and heated seats

>>15832406
unfortunately the colorado option doesn't allow me to seat friends and jeeps made post this>>15832387
era are for cruising pavement with toddlers or moddled after fiats

>>15832427
WHAT I WOULD LIKE IS FUCKING BOTH

Surely there are enough offroaders to provide a market for an option of reliability and heated leather

>>15832427
Not OP, But wouldn't an older vehicle also require maintenance that needs parts that have been out of production for quite some time? Wouldn't they be more expensive/rare?

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Crosstrek with Manuel

>>15832457
abysmal clearance and aftermarket would be sparse

>>15832424
>is now officially a crossover

>>15832451
That's why I said an xj, there were over 3 million made from 84-01 so parts are dirt cheap, and they have one of the most reliable engines EVER made

>>15832294
but my 92 4runner is awesome OP, been to 9 provinces in Canada with it best suv ever probably the best shitboxe I will ever buy

>>15832451
finding parts can be a hassle sometime but if your able to use your computer otherwise than posting meme you should be ok worst part is to actually remove the old one

>>15832504
>best suv ever
What other SUVs have you driven?

Just curious

>>15832442
The newest land cruiser or 4runner you can afford.

>>15832473
The Crosstrek no bullshit has more ground clearance than a 90s 4-runner

>>15832512
chevy equinox, suburban, saturn vue, kia santa fe, isuzu trooper 2, nissan pathfinder

I mean its not perfect, it handle like shit, fender rust so easily and im dying in case of a 80mph front impact but It litteraly goes anywhere and is reliable if your nothing beating her to death every day considering the fact its a fucking 20year old/+ 22re

>>15832566
>slow as fuck
>cvt or shitty feeling stick
>shitty modern car design

>>15832566
maybe I'm wrong, but wouldnt the lifting process go poorly with this and 30s?

>>15832564
land cruiser probably is actually the best, but I'm a little too poor. Modern 4runners are unwieldly as shit and suffer from fewer offroad design points than their predecessors

>>15832601
Typical problems you have when lifting something with independent suspension, CV angles, control arms and such. There are lift kits available for it and it's essentially an Impreza so anything that fits the Impreza will fit the Crosstrek

>>15832598
But that's not what you said anon, you said ground clearance

>>15832617
your right but what stoping you from buying a cheap welder and just reinforce the frame, saving the cash from buying a lancruiser

>>15832633
I'm not him, I was just saying why the crosstrek sucks

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>>15832645
I agree it's slow as fuck, but the OP is looking for a modern car so you can't really count "shitty modern car design" against the Crosstrek. I don't know what you are on about "shitty feeling stick"

Also according to this probably unreliable website, the Crosstrek 0-60 is better than that of a 90s 4-runner

>>15832294
Nissan Xterra?

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>>15832429

It comes in a crew cab... If you want to go off-road you're going to have to get a truck or buy a pavement pounding crossover. You can't be picky in a situation like this.

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>SUV
>offroading

Jeep Renegade

>>15832294
>>15833093
DESU as far as compact after 2008 this is the best option for all of the nitpicking you want

>implying the TOYOTA tacoma prerunner isn't the GOAT

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Its called a 1996-2002 4runner op u dumb shit

>>15832368
>Nanny electronic bullshit controls.

Even when the TCS and ESP is fully """off""" it still kicks back on at like 35-45 mph or around there. You can't even do hektik snow drifting. GG FCA you fucked the JK hard.

TJ was the last good Wrangler.

>>15833185
:^)

>>15833514
>>15832409
>made in this decade plz

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>>15833135
This. Throw a hard top canopy on it and you have twice the cargo capacity of a similar sized SUV.
Shame we didn't get the SUV version of the Colorado though.

4Runner Trail, although yes they have much more damage prone plastic bumpers than 4Runners of yore. Still somewhat reasonably sized, and reasonably priced once you look at what people paid for 4Runners back in the 90s and adjust for inflation (hint: they're cheaper now).

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Well.... it depends on what you want to do.

In reality, a Ford Escape, a RAV4, CR-V, etc are capable of things that would surprise you. My Mountaineer certainly surprises me each time I take it out, and try to get stuck. Honestly I think it's funny seeing all these decked out Jeeps on trails that don't require 4WD or high ground clearance.

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get a 00 4runner limited.

it even comes with auto climate control and a CD player. not to mention probably has some of the best support ever and the engine will outlast you

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>>15834751
>although yes they have much more damage prone plastic bumpers than 4Runners of yore
Eh, honestly, if something as trivial as a bumper is stopping someone from purchasing a particular for offroadan, then they probably shouldn't be in the market for such a vehicle.

Sure, you don't have to go and spend on a flagship ARB bar, as I'm certain even Toyota offers dealer fitted bars out the door.

COmes down to the right tool for the job, honestly I love Independent suspension and the soft cushion it provides. Solid axles have their purpose on farm equipment, not for a nice stroll through the woods.

You don't need a crazy gnarly off road rig for probably what you want to do. And if you want to do gnarly shit, well a cheaply built rig will break and leave you stuck too.

>>15834793
There was literally a early '00's 4Runner at the mechanic having the heads resurfaced and gasket replaced.

God I hate how the internet worships toyota

>>15834803

i'd say 1st - 3rd gen 4runners are probably the best looking. everything after that was pretty much a new soccer mom car.

same with any post 1997 land cruisers. all flair

>drive '95 suzuki SIDEKICK 4x4 GLX
>1.6l 16v 5 speed manual.
>5.125:1 axle ratio

>without even a CD player

my 'zuki has a flip-out touch screen with 4 6x9s in separate boxes, and a 15" Memphis sub. powered by two hifonics amps.

better audio system than you get in any production vehicle. stop being a casual

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>>15834817

Wow, stop the presses everyone, a guy saw a (insert make model with legendary reliability) with (insert mechanical problem), must mean they're actually crap and it's all a big conspiracy!

WTF I hate Toyota now.

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heated seats, climate control, audio and a/c controls on the steering wheel. Best ~$2-$3.5k you'll ever spend.

>>15834817

probably would have been fine, but i'm sure the owner took shit care of it for 17 years. you're retarded.

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>>15834831
sorry for the butthurt

>>15834832
>FoMoCo product

>best spent

kek

>>15834832

Is yours a V8 or V6?

DESU I've seen way too many with bad transmissions, rattly timing chain guides (v6), failed transfer cases, failed rear diffs, failed wheel bearings, prematurely wearing balljoints to ever seriously consider a 02-05 Explorer, but I will agree that you get massive bang for the buck. I'm more of a 95-01 Explorer guy, although they too had their share of issues.

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>>15834820
>best looking
Thankfully, I'm more concerned with substance of style.

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>>15834858
>substance of style
Fuck you iPhone.
over*

>>15834841

damn mate. that's a brilliant pic.

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>>15834841

See>>15834855

My brother just recently had to junk a customer's 04 that had a V6 with both a blown headgasket (164k miles), and upon tear down he found that the rear timing chain 'cassette' was shot. Engine out job because the SOHC-adaptation of the Cologne 4.0L (originally a decent OHV motor) is such a half-assed shitty motor. Luckily he had another junked Explorer at his shop ('02 with a blown rebuilt transmission), so he swapped the transmission out of the '04 into the '02 and sent the lady on her way.

Let's see the vaunted Mountaineer tackle something even half- as technically challenging:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDkQuP3HAs

As far as I can tell that is a stock truck, with 265/75R16 all terrain tires and not much else done to it.

>>15834831
comfy!

>>15834882

i fucking love this picture. what a truly marvelous car

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>>15834944

Thanks br/o/, have another

Considering and '06 TJ Wrangler Rubicon.
6 speed manual. Everything works. 122k miles.
It very good condition, no oil or fluid leaks visible anywhere. 4.0 i6 runs great.

Thoughts on the TJ /o/?

>>15834986
The thing that makes me sad is that there's very little price differential between an unmodded JK and the older TJs. When I was looking at good-condition TJs they were around $15k, so I thought why not spend an extra $3-4k more and get a newer model with a better engine and lower mileage? It's hard to find value in Jeeps unless you only want to buy Jeeps.

>>15834931
>no flex at all
>cant keep 4 on the ground ever

>offroading with sway links on

"weekend warrior"

>europeans
>in charge of offroading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLB6pcyoOrc

>>15835090
>JK
>Better engine than TJ

>>15835109
I think you completely missed the context of that post you drop kick.

>>15835109

>Made it up the climb in a stock truck

I'd love to see a stock XJ or non-Rubicon Wrangler attempt the same climb.

>>15835133

You just gotta believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0A-RE38MBc

>>15835133

Okay that was fucking awesome.

I offer to you some Russian offroading:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwD3p3yx7ZY

>>15832409
R51 pathfinder.

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>>15835230
This.

>>15835230

Meh, these always struck me as worse Mitsu Montero IIIs

In the US you had to pony up to the LE trim to get a multi-mode style transfer case with a viscous coupling to allow for a 'full-time' mode. Mediocre clearance, poor articulation. They are pretty plentiful and much cheaper than 4Runners at least. VQ40 makes some very healthy power.

>>15835258
More of a comparison to the Challanger/Montero/Pajero/Shogun Sport than the full size SUV.
Still a serious off-road contender regardless.

>>15835287

I reckon the IRS and general outside dimensions and weight make them comparable. Yeah the Mitsu probably has more interior room.

>>15834817

you have to resurface the head everytime you change the headgasket.
What's so wrong with changing headgaskets? It's a normal procedure.

>>15834786
Nobody gives a fuck about your shitpost suv

>>15835516
Not true, I kinda like it.

>>15834866
What fucking pottery. Wants substance over style, buys an iPhone. Many keks.

>>15835258
All the ones we get in aus have proper locking transfer cases as well as 2wd and awd modes.

Can also get heaps of clearance and decent travel out of them. Traction control also drags there asses up heaps of things anyway. Also comfy as fuck.

>>15835090
ok good to know. I'm in Canada and there's TWO TJS for about 14k each. 2005 2006 models with manuéls.

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>>15835871
>Wants substance over style, buys an iPhone
Fucking rofl, I'll pay that. 10 points.
In my defense, it was a freeby. And although the old iPhone4 is a shit cunt to use, it's pretty damn reliable. The inner weeb in me is currently awaiting the Xperia XZ release.
Shame there's nothing american originated that's competitive (apart from the mentioned substanceless iPhone lol).

>>15835760

Yeah it's definitely cool to see one of those used as intended, but shit talking Toyota quality when one drives one of those is laughable at best.

If I found a clean V8 (thus avoiding shitty Cologne SOHC and questionable auto tranny) with full history, for a good price I'd take a gamble.

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>>15832294
trailblazers are cheap and not complete shit

Suzuki Jimny

>>15835133
embarrassing

>>15836605

yeah I mean it's a typical GM in that it might be a total shitheap with an interior that's worn out looking and half the accessories inoperable but the fucker will just not die. Every single one I see on the street I can hear it coming, suspension clanging away. Also known to shit transfer cases.

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these always seemed pretty cool, they can't be that bad off road either.

>>15835090
>>15835158

This is why the tj costs almost the same dude. The God tier straight 6 AMC 242 engine. The jks have a minivan engine. Literally a chrysler town and country v6. If they announced a new jeep with a straight 6 300ci engine I would buy it instantly but fuck the v6

>>15836639

They're super fun trucks, the only one big failure is how soft and prone to bottoming out the stock leaf springs are, the payload of these things is a measly 895lbs because of that I figure. Easy enough to fix, but really they should have gone to a 5-link coil sprung setup like a 4Runner. 6spd+VQ40 is fun as hell to drive around town.

>>15836639
>>15836670
Very interested in one of these, thinking it may be my next purchase. What offroading build guides does anyone know of? I know about getting basic stuff like skid plates and 30s, but when it comes to "better" suspenions, axles, differentials, or anything beyond that I'm dumb as shit, is there anywhere that has an /o/ or /org/ approved offroading focus to learn all of it or am i stuck digging through wikipedia?

2001 ford expedition? Kinda the son of the Ford bronco.

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Get a first gen CRV

>>15832294
FJ CRUISER?
TOYOTA FJ CRUISER!?
FJ
CRUUUUUIIIIIIISE

>>15835287
The suspension on the R51 Pathfinders is not as sturdy as on Pajeros and the transfer case is simpler. I don't think you can get a manual RD lock on them either.

>>15835366
> the Mitsu probably has more interior room
Pathfinder actually has more room for the driver (Challenger is surprisingly cramped if you're over 6'), and generally better interior quality. This comes at the expense of room for rear passengers.

>>15838515
Oh, forgot to mention that all of that applies to new (08+) Challengers. First-gen ones come with shittier AWD mechanics, shittier suspension and are extremely prone to rust.

>>15837485

Honestly starting out I'd leave well enough alone and just run some easier trails and see where you're at. Pro4x comes with 265/75R16s stock (31.5 ish inches), so if you get a 'lesser' model just get some good A/T tires in that size. I'd definitely look into the rear leafspring issue (I'm sure you'll see it for yourself).

So yeah, no need to just immediately jump into a huge expensive build, I've always been amazed by people's focus on this. Just drive the damn thing and then upgrade with what it truly needs according to how you use it.

>>15838515
FWIW I was referring to R51 vs Pajero/Montero III. I LOVE the seating position and layout of the Monty, feels like the dash is at knee level with insane visibility. Conversely I hate the R51, either my knees are too close to the dash, or I'm too far away from the steering wheel. I'm just overall not a huge fan of the R51 but to respect the value that it presents.

I've been hunting for a clean Montero III here in the US for literally years on and off. Test driving a one-owner '02 Limited with full maintenance history (145k miles), fingers crossed it isn't a heap.

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>>15832294
Older is better

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>>15836632
The engine is really good. My interior isn't too shit and mostly everything works except my speedometer +nearly every analog gauge except the tach. Speedo is usually broken but I did a trick to fix it for a little while

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>>15832512
Isuzu is best also land cruisers

>>15835243
>Liberty
Loving
Every
Laugh

>>15835175

Here's a stock Jeep liberty doing something similar.

https://youtu.be/DM2WspuxMCY

>>15838515
Literally the only gripe I have with the 2nd generation PB/PC Challengers and the ML/MN Tritons is the sparse hard cheap plastic interior, especially as the interior didn't feel quite as cheap in the earlier PA Challengers and MK Tritons.
Although I'd happily overlook that for their componentry, particularly the 4M41 in the ML Triton (seriously, the only midsize pickup I'd consider if I was in the market for one).
>>15839483
Good luck, and god speed. I recently just purchased a diesel manual 4th gen NT Pajero with 280,000kms, and loving every minute of it. Getting ~10L/100km (25mpg) with 50-60kmh urban driving and around 8L/100km highway. Still right as a drum, although I've noticed the glow plugs may be on their way out.

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>>15838375
SO besides the fact that owning an FJ cruiser makes you look like a try-hard, what's their actual offroading like?

>>15841099
It's the same as a prado

>>15832442
2003 Durango slt.

You're welcome.

hijacking the thread

which one should i get/check out.

Isuzu Trooper - $1880
http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/5743419494.html

Range Rover Classic - $1999
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/5764246093.html

asking you specifically >>15839622

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>>15841268
Out of those, I'd put my money into the Isuzu even though I'm not 100% convinced about Isuzu V6s. I like my Mitsubishi and Isuzu 4x4s.
Although an old Range Rover that's properly sorted CAN be a good thing. I'd have a look at both and keep an open mind.
>>15839632
lol, at the time it was an outside chance because they weren't bad value and could be readily found with a 2.8CRDi/6spd manual combination in my market. And even taking some of the questionable Chrysler quality at that time into account, mechanically the VM Motori Jeeps were solid bets.
Although we ended up finding a pic related with enough mileage to fall into our price range.

>>15834782
>>15834786
3rd gen Mountaineer bro! What year's yours? You got the lift gate crack?

Are Isuzu Vehicrosses gud for off-road? I like the styling and that it's 2-door, even seen them on muh craigslist occasionally

>>15834832
$2-$3.5k lmfao paid $850 for mine, literally needed nothing but maintenance because female owned. Pulls 21 mpg on the highway and only problem I ever had was the Ford aluminum head spark plug blowout issue, but $40 worth of heli coil and Loctite red fixed that in 20 minutes

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>>15843024

>>15843024
They are gud off-roaders. Based on the MU platform.
Wish the rest of the world got the Vehicross. An American originated design that blow my socks off.

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Which one would you take for Executive Security Transport br/o/s?

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Or this?

>>15844655
all the government contracted vehicles I've seen are FORD LMAO, so i dunno, I'd probably trust what they do

>>15839734
I actually kinda like the shit plastic because I don't feel bad about scratching anything when stuffing the car with furniture or crates of fruit.
What rustles my jimmies is rust proofing, or rather the lack of it. Granted, I live in the absolute worst climate for cars, but I got rust spots all over the frame at 6000 km on the odometer, are you fucking kidding me Mitsubishi?

>4M41
They replaced that with a VGT 4D56 several years ago, which is less lethargic but also reportedly less reliable.

>>15844783
>less lethargic
I'd argue that. They're laggy as fuck and anaemic without turbo influence which takes its sweet time before it chimes in.
The 4M41s are much better, even in 160hp form let alone factory 200hp configuration. One if the reasons I lament the MN replacing the ML Triton.

>>15844783
Also, what year/model is your Challenger/Paj Sport?
It's the second generation's interior I'm not too fond of. But make no mistake, that'd be far from a deal breaker for me as an offroad/work wagon. I reckon they great from the outside though.

>>15844655
>>15844642
I'd take a J200 Landcruiser. This'd be one of the rare scenarios I'd choose the gas 5.7L for mah pursuit over that sweet 1VD diesel.

>>15832409
>lel @ differentials

It has front and real lockers. Whats the problem reddit?

>>15836668
>300ci
You want a Ford engine?

>>15832294
You can literally buy any vehicle, put a lift kit on it, and go off-roading. Pretty simple anon.

>>15833135

>buying anything other than GM line of full sized trucks

the silverado platform is the only thing which is good, and its more like mediocre.
GM cannot make anything that is not a fullsized truck

>>15845382
Ah bullshit. Isuzu based GMs such as the Colorado pictured are also top notch.

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Does America not recieve the Toyota Fortuner?
It's built on the same chassis, drivetrain and engine as the newest Hilux, so it's essentially the 2016 4Runner, the only difference between them is the Fortuner has coil springs in the rear and not leaf.

>>15845400

does anyone remember the s10?

no?

just as i thought

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>>15845423
No, but we do get the 4runner which is fucking huge

>>15832368
Do a trip across the Simpson Desert and not end up as dingo shit?

Jeeps are the least reliable new vehicle in Australia, even the Chinese made Great Wall utes and compact 4x4's last longer than the Jeep, not to mention you can buy a Jeep new for $47,000 and the used sale price dives to $28,000 in the first year.

They are fucking trash, even Suzuki Jimny's out perform them and they are $20,000 and use 5L per 100km less, so you don't run out of fuel in 500km.

>>15845475
>not to mention you can buy a Jeep new for $47,000
Lol Straya

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>>15845458
Wbat is it with the US market and pigfat trucks?
Here's the Tundra vs a 2014 Hilux

>>15845490
That's the base model too, the Anniversary Model is $70k, which is the same price as a brand new Toyota Landcruiser, the only people who buy Jeeps here are 4x4 posers.

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>>15845509
The brick look is in

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>>15845550
Strange, never seen that logo before, is that the same company that made this? Styling seems similar with the sheer lack of visibility.

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>>15845457

these are the TSBs for a 2002 s10 truck

this is literally the worst vehicle i have ever seen.
a TSB list should be very short.

this s10 list is worse than BMW

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You can call me the ring leader of Toyotas

>>15843004
Nope! But I try not to slam it shut

>>15843004
and 2002

>>15845743

Yet there's 500x more S10's on the road than old BMW's, hmmm.

07 FJ cruiser
Icon stage 1
LR upper control arm
33" Terra Grappler.

Nice comprise IMHO

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>>15844984
> laggy as fuck and anaemic without turbo influence which takes its sweet time
That's what I'm talking about, the VGT 4D56 has better pedal response than the 160hp version of 4M41 in older Challengers. It still doesn't feel like a 178hp engine, but overtaking is less scary at least.
The best 200hp version of 4M41 only exists on "big" Pajeros and iirc for some stupid reason cannot be swapped into lesser ones.


>>15845044
2015.
The 2016 one is massively improved interior-wise, but it's currently only offered here with a pig disgusting petrol V6 and for almost $15k more than the old one.

>>15847840
>That's what I'm talking about, the VGT 4D56 has better pedal response than the 160hp version of 4M41 in older Challengers
Ah what? That's the exact opposite of what I'm talking about. The 160hp 4M41 has better response than even the VGT CR 4D56. The 4D56 is absolutely gutless sans turbo, but goes like a race car once it finally gets its act together. Where as even the earlier distributer injected DiD 4M41 could lug all day before the turbo was called upon, which would come in more intuitively than the peakier 4D.

Also, which Challengers ever came with a 4M41?

Sounds like you've got one of the last of the PCs. Damn fantastic off-road wagons the 2nd gen Challenger, and although I have my hangups with the CR 4D56 powering work utes and towing trailers, I feel they're right at home in the PB/PC.

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>>15845743
>your candy ass can't fix half that shit
How your desk job Larry? Damn it feels good to never have to perform menial labor!

>>15845925

oh stupid shill....

worst BMWs are from 2008 onwards
deal with it

>>15848016
I don't know if the eco settings on this particular flavor of 4M41 are different than on other 4M41s, but it felt slower and laggier than the 178hp VGT 4D56. (Not that the latter is particularly good, especially with the autotragic gearbox in auto mode - my shitty Peugeot van will probably beat it in a drag race despite having no AWD and half the horsepower)

>which Challengers ever came with a 4M41?
The first 2nd gen ones did. Then in 2011 they replaced it with a 4D56, probably to keep the power rating up with Pathfinders and decrease fuel consumption.

>one of the last of the PCs
They're still producing PCs everywhere except Thailand IIRC.
And it's not like QE is bad, it's not Pathfinder-like crossover faggotry (although time will tell whether they fucked up the reliability with the upsized Outlander engine, new gearbox and electronics)

>>15849420
Unreal, it's a shame we never had a 4M powered PB. Didn't know they existed elsewhere until now.
Every single one of our PB/PC Challengers were CR 4D56 powered, with either a 5spd auto or manual.
The recently released (is it a PS?) 3rd gen can only be optioned with, as you said, the upsized Outlander 4N diesel and 8spd auto. I reckon it looks spot on personally, but as you also said, time will tell what the longevity is like.

I was a bit sad when the Pathfinder went from the R51 to the current Altima platformed faggoty, especially as the new NP300 Navara already has a multi link coil rear end that would be perfectly suited to an SUV. Nissan, fucking faggots.

>>15834826
>my 'zuki

faggot.

whats wrong with the 3rd gen 4 runner? (95-2002)
they are nearly identical to the 2nd gen 92 you are talking about except with coilovers instead of the terrible torsion bars and a MUCH better v6 engine

>>15851569
the v6 is still gutless
half are automatics with milkshake problems
manual beat to shit ones with 250k+ are still hurrdurr $10,000 firm i no wut i got

t. someone who's in the market for a 3rd gen

>>15851618
nah the 3.4 aint gutless man. gotta t100 with one in it, its not a stoplight race machine but it will easily pull anything you can hook up to a 4runner or other toyota truck. plus they last fuckin FOREVER. you are right about the manual ones being expensive as fuck tho.

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I didn't see any mention of the Jeep Renegade Trailhawk. Might be an option for you if you don't mind the styling.

What kind of offroading do you want to do? Technical stuff (big boulders, etc.) or just getting to your campsite/fishing spot?

I only do the latter, and my Tracker is boss for that.

>>15852546
>actual offroading
>Renegade

No

>>15851618
the milkshake problem is pretty rare idk what the fuck ur on about lad

>>15852584
Trailhawk

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/09/2015-jeep-renegade-trailhawk-moab-off-road-video-feature/

A tiny amount of googling will show you to be incorrect (for all but the most serious of offroading... which requires considerable aftermarket mods anyway).