I know literally nothing. Redpill me on Saturn, if yall'd

Saturn went out of business because they built cars that were so good the oil cartel had to shut them down

>>15684286
made good shitboxes in the 90's until GM fucked them over by making all of their cars Opel rebadges.

>>15684286
Saturn didn't really make "great" cars, but by normal consumer standards they were damn good. Saturn as a corporation was structured in such a way that employee input was vital in the design and assembly processes. Because of this, employees had a stake in ensuring product quality, and as such, nobody on the assembly line wanted to sign off on half assed work. Of course, once GM was facing bankruptcy during the recession this philosophy didn't mesh well with the way GM execs wanted to run their company. It was essentially the same story as Saab. You had people who cared too much about making quality automobiles losing out to suits who decided that selling broken pieces of crap was more profitable.

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>gm

Speaking only of the SL series, they are very reliable and efficient cars, especially with the manual transmission. Earlier seem to be better built, around 2000 they loosened up.

40mpg commuter that can carry a surprising amount of lumber with the fold down rear seat. Tend to hold their looks due to the side panels.

>>15686001
Everybody I know that had an early Saturn loves them.

>>15684286
It made the Corollas of GM. RIP

>>15684286
Saturn was a completely different car company.

Then GM killed them.

>>15684286
Did anything worth remembering came from this company? The only Saturn car I can remember is the Saturn Solstice even though it wasn't all that interesting.

Everyone i meet who owned/owns one likes it, everyone else shits on them. Get one as old as possible before GM started getting their hands too deep into that company. SC2 with popup headlights is cute

>>15684289

What parallel dimension are you from nigga?

vapid pieces of shit.

The only interesting car they had was the sky.

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>>15686234
>Did anything worth remembering came from this company?

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>buy used L series sedan (first gen)
>no one mentioned they are notoriously prone to sudden catastrophic timing belt failure that is often so violent that the engine block rips itself free of its mount
>mfw it decides to do this of all places at my sister-in-law's funeral

So what should I do with my new 3000 pound dorstop?

>>15689155

LS swap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv0xFHDDYCE

Ron Jeremy drives a Saturn, why don't you?

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>>15689155
Only the V6 had a timing belt. Should've bought the 4 cylinder. The 4 cylinder was a 2.2L Ecotec which used a timing chain... And there's only 1 generation of the L-series.

also
>not checking when the timing belt was last changed
You deserved it to be honest.

>>15689210
>to be honest
slit your fucking throat gmfangirl

>>15689217
>gmfangirl
That's fucking common sense whether you buy a fucking Geo or a Porsche. Find out if it has a timing belt, and see when it was last changed. If you have no idea, change it immediately.

Also the 3.0L V6 they used was an Opel engine that was trash.

They were great before GM fucked them and their lineup turned into European commuter rebadges.

>>15689122

That's just a Cobalt SS

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>>15689343

>>15689393

That interior is JUST tier.

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>>15689400
>completely missing my point

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>be me parts goy at parts store
>dude comes in and wants part for saturn sl series or some shit
>get him his parts and he fucks off
but then
>get curious and look through all of that years saturn models
>fucking all came with 1.9 liter inline 4
>no other options

>mfw 1.9

>>15689487
gay

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>>15689487
but it was available in either SOHC form or DOHC form and there was a big difference in how they drove. The SOHC made 100 HP and was uninspiring and slow. The DOHC was very revvy and made 124 HP. The DOHC also responded very well to mods. cat-back exhaust, header, and a cold air intake and they were known to get 20 extra horsepower.

And to make it better, the engine was bulletproof reliable.

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>Look on craigslist
>See a Saturn Vue for $1600 in pretty good condition
>"A cheap, manual, awd vehicle in good condition for $1600? sign me up."
>read the ad
>It's fwd

I don't understand

>>15686162
RATE HOW THIS MAKES YOU FEEL WITH AN EMOTICON.

ALUMINUM IS BAD

DID I MENTION JD POWER YET?

fuck GM

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>>15689618
The Saturn Vue was essentially automatic only. The only way to get it with a 5 speed manual (which was offered, a bulletproof Getrag F23 5 speed), was if you got a FWD 4 cylinder base model. The best thing is those were THE most reliable Vues. The only Vue models of comparable reliability are the 2004-2007 ones with the Honda 3.5L V6.

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>>15689636
fuck Obama.

He is the one that did that.

Obama and the no-fun allowed group killed off Saturn, Pontiac, HUMMER and others when they took over GM.

They got rid of the "fun" division of GM. Those female and emasculated male elites never liked the Trans Am or the customizing cars that Saturn made.

They never understood car culture and hated it. They especially hated the HUMMER. So that was why those divisions had to go.

>>15689640
I see, sounds like it might be a good buy, then.

I don't need awd, really, I just want something I can haul decently sized stuff in.

My first car was a 1999 SL I bought for $900. It was abused by the previous owner and ran horribly, but it wouldn't stop running. I liked that.

>>15689665
The 4 cylinder in the Vue was the GM 2.2L ecotec, which after 2002 became their 4 cylinder WHORE. The only divisions to never use the engine were Cadillac, Buick and GMC. And by now they have all used a variant of it. That 2.2L morphed into the 2.0L turbo, and the N/A 2.4L and 2.5L 4 bangers GM still uses today.

>>15689661
>they killed hummer
that's the sliver lining
the hummer sucked after the H1 and Gm helped kill it

how many were taken off road and modified for off road?
how many were used for that utility it supposedly had so much of?

how often do you actually see H2's driving around on large chrome wheels with no where near enough tire left for off road?
or in the hands of dudes actually acting like the truck has capability and not just the appearance of it?

face it the H2 and H3 were ricer off roaders and over glorified "grocery geters" though Ive seen few moms driving them

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>>15689526
>putting a catback exhuast on a 1.9 liter 124 horsepower saturn

>>15686234
You're thinking of the Saturn Sky, Pontiac had the Solstice

>>15689122
>tfw no redline

>>15689210
I thought they didn't have the 2.2L Ecotecs until the Ion series

Those old 1.9 dohc engines in the early ones burned oil like an Iraqi dictator.

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>>15689526
Owned two dohc, test drove an sohc... I couldn't live with 100hp. So fuckin slow

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>>15691021
5spd of course

1.9l SOHC SL-1 here, just passed smog with 14 years on the clock. All original, even the spark plugs.

>>15690147
Ah. Thanks for the clear up.

>>15689408
That's just a gimmick that sold cars, for a while that is.

>>15689692
So typical. GM gets lucky with a good reliable cheaply-built engine and they use the shit out of it to save a few bucks.

GM killed off Pontiac and Saturn because they were taking most of their sales from the main brand Chevrolet.

I just bought a Saturn Astra xr 2008, it's a nice car I paid 2000$ for and I'm pretty satisfied yet.

It needs a lot of love but it'll be a nice challenge, I guess.

So my dad has a 1999 Saturn SL1 I think the 4 door one. I was wondering why his transmission is so hard to change gears, it's like trying to move a mountain every time I go through the gears and that's if you can find the gears sometimes you have to jiggle the shifter to even get it into first, car has about 140k miles on it one owner almost all original parts

>>15690160
The 2.2L ecotec was first used, in any car, in the 2000 Saturn L-series. First car to ever use the engine.

>>15691543
If it's an automatic, there's your problem.

>>15691629
No manual forgot to put that I assumed that was implied. Or are all Saturns just not that smooth at shifting?

>>15684320
Basicly this. Saturn's will probably outlast any GM product of the same era.

>>15691642
Automatics tend to have noticeable problems later on.
Saturn manuals are generally fun and smooth, if a bit notchy.
Here. Have a bunch of reviews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ_rj-juOHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAIzeeh1ic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2z5VDCtZfg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AQckwz4Qec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hae91KSp9IY

>>15684320
Honestly, this is more or less the story of every successful business in today's world. There simply is no compromise. You can take the honest or genuine approach and 'feel good about doing the right thing' but your competitors will just run you into the ground making way more money.

>>15691677
Oh neat thank you

>>15691543
Auto or standard, and when did you change the fluid last?

>>15689661
Didn't they kill most of them cause they dont make trucks.

>>15691741
Hmm that's a good question that might be it but it's my dad's car so who knows plus he is retarded and thinks if you rev the engine past 3k rpm it's bad for the car

>>15689757
Weird. All H3s I've seen were driven exclusively by women.

>>15691754
Not necessarily. When the Obama administration looked into GM for the bailout, they wanted to make sure the company was as strong and as profitable as possible to see the best return on it for the American people. To that end, the government said "If you want the bailout, you have to kill all your brands except for Chevrolet and Cadillac."
Buick survived because they made a case that Buick was popular in China and GM worried the Chinese might not want Buicks at all if Americans didn't get them too.
GMC survived because they always pulled a profit. ALWAYS.
They tried to make a case for Pontiac since they were gearing up Pontiac behind the scenes to be the RWD BMW fighter brand. "Has Pontiac pulled in a profit in the last 20 years?" "Well no, but" "They're gone."
They tried to make a case to save Saturn as an import fighter, but Saturn had NEVER pulled in a profit. GM attempted to sell Saturn to Penske to save them but GM backed out of the deal when they found out Penske planned to import Korean Renault-Samsung cars and badge them as Saturns. GM though Saturn should die rather than be desecrated that way.
Saab was sold off, and Hummer was killed because high fuel prices meant no one was buying them anymore.

>>15691543
Sounds like a 5spd... Your shifter bushing is made of plastic, replace with a part from Napa. That'll fix the hard to find gears. The other is perhaps shifter cables, but it's not as clear cut to solve

>>15691792
But some of the companies withen gm were being killed off during and before the bush administration by gm.

Ideologically Saturn was long dead by the time of the bailouts because roughly ten years after funding the executives of other GM brands noticed that Saturn was run much better than their train wreck companies and received more GM attention / exceptions from the GM rules than they did, so they got jealous and angry and started shouting and complaining until GM headquarters, to shut them up, started crippling Saturn around the millennium by forcing them to release Opel rebadges instead of continued development of their own models.

>>15691804
You mean one. Not many. One. Oldsmobile, and had they survived, Oldsmobile would've become liked a luxury Scion. That was the market they were aiming for when they were killed off.

GM was going to file bankruptcy for the millionth time then managed to get big government to implement some good ol'fashion fascism and bail them out, again. Saturn and Pontiac was thrown under the bus while others survived. Saturn had a good run but Pontiac needed to be out of its misery.

Basically, GM sucks ass and couldn't manage a bowel movement.

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>>15691792
>muh thanks obama

The government did not dictate what brands were to survive and what wouldn't. That was entirely GM's call.

Blame the bean counters and take your obama shit to /pol/

>>15692334
>The government did not dictate what brands were to survive and what wouldn't. That was entirely GM's call.
No it wasn't. Read Bob Lutz's book since you decided to bring him into it

>>15692345
nigger i have his book.

Yes it was.

>>15691307
I love those doors desu senpai

Stolen Recaros, I know you're probably in this thread so I have a question for you.

Where and how did you get so knowledgeable about GM?

>>15692763
>Where and how did you get so knowledgeable about GM?
I grew up around them, particularly GM W-body cars. My mother had a gen 1.5 W-body Chevy Monte Carlo Z34, which eventually became my first car. So I joined forums and started reading. It was amazing to me how much all GM's FWD cars were interconnected, and I wanted to know more. Eventually, I got my second car, the Saturn ion I have now and that intrigued me. I joined forums again and began reading. A lot of my previous GM FWD research had been into all the FWD V6 cars, Now I was faced with a FWD I4 car, so I started researching those from GM. By the time I finished reading the forums, i realized how cancerous forums are if you don't kiss everyone's ass and came here.

I admit to being out of my depth when it comes to older GM RWD cars though. There simply aren't any useful B-body or A-body forums for me to troll through and read valuable information.

If I find a car has peaked my interest, I will go on relevant forums, sign up, never post, and just read through all the useful info to avoid all the faggotry.

I like it here. Yes there's faggotry here too, but its more tolerable. no one takes themselves too seriously here. I don't need to kiss ass here or offer rimjobs. The only cancer on all of /o/ is Alphonse, and so long as he sticks to one or 2 threads and doesn't bomb /o/ with gfur porn, I'm fine with it. His gfur doesn't bother me. What does is him using it to push legitimately interesting topics into the archive.

>>15689661
>Obama killed GM

XDDDDDD

Dude GM wouldn't be a thing if those assholes hadn't used our money to save them. Besides, look at what they did after.

I guess the new vette and camaros are ok, but the body of GM is awful.

Caddie made out okay.

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supercharged ion is fun
>also holds landspeed record

>>15689808

Still faster than your Civic brah.

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>>15693812
>>also holds landspeed record
yes it does.

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>>15693841

I've got an Ion 3, is it worth getting a Redline? I wouldn't mind the supercharger, and I want a car that's under my name. What are any common problems to look out for in the Redline?

I'm also considering a Celica GT-S if that's any better or worse

>>15695427
The Redline got a supercharged 2.0L making 205 HP and 200 ft-lbs, though it's said to be under-rated and actual HP is nearer 220.
As to problems they're known for, the lower control arm bushings, and the shifter cable likes to come undone from the shifter. TWM Performance sells a metal clamp that fixes this issue. The control arm issues can be fixed by switching to the aluminum control arms of a Cobalt SS.

Beyond that, make sure the electric power steering is fine, and that the ignition switch recall was performed. If not, take it to any GM dealer and they'll fix it for free. As to the power steering, they have become such a known problem with the power steering motors that GM changed the warranty on that part specifically to 10 years or 100k miles, so a 2006 or 2007 Redline should still have the power steering under warranty.

The Ion Redline has a nurburgring tuned suspension so it is sharper to drive than a normal Ion and you can go sharper still by using the front struts and rear shocks from a 2008-2010 Cobalt SS Turbo. It'll definitely be faster than the Celica but the engine doesn't rev as high as the Celica's, so there's that.

Also, 2006 was the last year for the Recaro seats since the seats couldn't meet 2007 model year safety standards.

>>15693217
Sums up forums pretty good. Though I think facebook groups are even more cancerous.

I pretty much stopped going to forums once I realized I had become a "guru" and became everything I hated.

>GM

don't do this

>>15695586
>Though I think facebook groups are even more cancerous.
>a social media site that panders to the most self-absorbed narcissistic twat is somehow more cancerous
No fucking shit, Sherlock.

>>15684320
Yup! I talked with a senior tech at a Chevy dealer and he said he worked for Saturn for a long time. Every tech had to have intimate knowledge with every aspect of the car; they would have in depth classes on everything. He said Saturn would stop the assembly line if something wasn't right, in fact workers were encouraged to do so whem they noticed an issue. No other mass manufacturer would even think of doing that; you'd probably be fired.

>>15691679
The sad truth, this is why the world is so shit. Depressing to no end, completely unsustainable.

>>15689155
Horrible timing...

Although, you mean people are prone to neglecting maintenance.

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>>15689155

>engine bricks at a funeral

So how did the rest of the funeral go?

>>15695514
Wow, I didn't think that it shared so much with the Cobalt SS. I think I've read that GM offered engine kit upgrades. Are those still available if I don't find one that has it already? I'd like to keep an eye out for the competition package, but I'll be surprised if I found one. How would I know if the power steering was going bad when if I get one?

I don't really see any benefit to having a high revving engine tb.h

>>15696278
The Ion only differs in small things to the Cobalt.
The Ion has different front strut towers, so the strut mounts and front springs are different, but the struts themselves and the rest of the front suspension is 100% interchangeable.
The Ion also had a different trunk floorpan than the Cobalt, though I'm unsure why. the entire rear suspension underneath is interchangeable though

As to how to know if the power steering has an issue, you'll either feel an issue with the power steering or a message will pop up on the DIC that says "POWER STEERING FAIL".

GM offered stage 1, 2 and 3 kits for the LSJ cars. Stage 1 bumped power to 230 HP. Stage 2 to 242. Stage 3 bumped it to around 300. Stage 3 is virtually impossible to find because it removed the Air conditioning and no one wanted to deal with that. The kits, to my knowledge, are no longer available.

Aside from the higher revving engine, the Celica will have a nicer and better quality interior. The Celica also has a double wishbone independent rear suspension while the Ion and Cobalt have a semi-independent torsion beam axle rear. Though the Celica will still be shown the GM cars tail lights if there's any race, either in a straight line or around a course.

>>15696359
One last question then. Is there any reason they used the 2.0L engine over the 2.2L? Or a supercharger over a turbo?

The Celica probably gets better MPGs and have a better interior, but the Ion will definitely be more powerful and has based suicide doors. I'm gonna be sure to thoroughly test both when I get enough saved up

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>>15696459
The 2.0L has a shorter stroke.

As to why, I think it was laziness. The 2.0L supercharged wasn't that engine's first public debut.
It first debuted in the all new 2003 Saab 9-3 Turbo. The 2.0L engine was completely engineered by Saab using the 2.2L architecture. A shorter stroke gave Saab the 2.0L displacement they wanted, and a different cylinder head with a turbo gave them the power they wanted.
When they converted the engine for the Saturn Ion Redline and Chevy Cobalt SS, GM north America wanted better throttle response, so off came the turbo, and on went an Eaton M62 supercharger. The intake manifold of the supercharged engines is a brilliant piece of design. It's not only the intake manifold, it's also a water to air intercooler featuring 4 laminova cores.

Aside from which form of Forced induction is used, Saturn/Chevy's LSJ is IDENTICAL to Saab's LK9 engine.

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>>15696545
and for visual comparison, here's the supercharged variant.

>>15696089
People died laughing

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First gen twincams are the best looking Saturns IMO. Just be prepared for burnt oil. The later S-series are good cars. Once they started to rebadge Opel, they lost what made them a good company.

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Also, the twincams will easily beat "red light revving" stock Civics. The redlines can too.

>>15691793
It's the bushings. Had the same thing in my SC2. Before I die I want another SC to swap a LE5 turbo and make it rear wheel drive with the Aisin 5 speed both from the Sky redline

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>>15689155
All the S series had timing chains
Also, when a timing belt goes on any car with an interference head, its toast.

I had 2 Saturns, both were pretty good shit boxes Totally reliable, the engine's were noisy (due to the time chain ironically) but were rock solid. The dealerships were no commission, no pressure was a good buying experience.

My first Saturn go rear ended by a snow plow with my then pregnant wife. Walked away from it. I was pretty happy with those cars.

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>>15689155

How are we mean?

Opinions on the sc2's? Best models year? Good as a first car? Somewhat sporty?

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>>15699239
opinions are mixed.
Best model years are up to you.

looks-wise, I prefer the 1991-1996 SC2's because they have popup headlights, and I think they got just slightly uglier every year after... and even the last 2002 models are still pretty good looking.

The best engins are clearly the later ones. Saturn was continually updating the engine to make it smoother and more reliable, without sacrificing or adding power..

They're great as a first car. a suicide driver's side third door became optional in 1999, and standard in 2000-2002.

They are somewhat sporty, and handle like Civics with their multi-link IRS. I think the biggest issue is that there used to be a company that made ONLY Saturn aftermarket performance parts called SPS. From what I can find, the company tanked during the 2008 financial collapse so finding aftermarket parts to modify can be a bitch.

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>>15699239
Good as a first car, handles nicely. Get a 5spd or go home. I like the 1st Gen most for looks, followed by 3 then 2. Have a 3rd Gen coupe now, pic related.

>>15698547

Shit, meant to reply to this post:

>>15695726