Is there a reason why most of their cars are FF. Even their more

It's what they're used to. When all your factories have been designed to make FF vehicles, why not keep making them.

The S2K and NSX were their own chassis, the rest of their performance vehicles were tarted up econoboxes. Prelude SH is just an Accord, Type R is just a Civic, etc.

>>15555460
They can make AWD cars though, why not make something like the Civic Type R AWD?

>>15555460
The prelude was never an accord. Not even the same motor not even the same chassis you faggots need to stop saying that shit.

>>15555473
I don't really know.

I guess they've never made performance-oriented AWD outside the new NSX. A Ridgeline's AWD wouldn't be good for speed.

>>15555501
Pretty sure the new Ridgeline's AWD is just SH-AWD from the MDX which was also used in the TL and RL

File: Prelude.jpg (10KB, 201x17px) Image search: [Google]

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>>15555484
Anon...

Shut the fuck up.

>>15555440
Because normies don't give a fuck and normies are their biggest customer

>>15555484
too bad the h22 is also used the euro r and type r accords the bb6 prelude used it for 2 years before hand, so sure you're 10 percent correct

>>15555484
Yeah, yeah, and the Integra is not a Civic.

>>15555594
>normies are their biggest customer

Have you ever been to a car meet anon? They're usually filled with hondas. People like to build on them for a reason, regardless of FWD they're good platforms for the price.

>>15555650
They're still the minority

>>15555695
In what sense? Are you talking about the car meets you've never been to?

honduh a shit

>>15555754
people that buy hondas for tuning and performance purposes are the minority consumer, especially of new cars. There's more money in making econoboxes since less and less people seem to even want to drive

>>15555799
But that has nothing to do with your original point

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>>15555592
>>15555602
>>15555616
He's right. The prelude isn't an accord, no generation prelude is. Only an idiot who has never driven these cars can say that

>>15555897
I'm not the first anon you replied to, I'm just stating that I think Honda makes only FWD because their biggest consumers are normies who won't give a shit about drivetrain. More and more people from my generation and younger don't really give a shit about cars and driving, they won't care if a car is FWD or RWD as long as it's comfortable and gets muh mpgs. People that bring Hondas to car meets are the minority consumer, plus I hardly see new cars at meets that aren't Mustangs, Camaros, or Challengers in this area

>>15555978
So what's the point of your posts then ?

>>15555984
I'm agreeing with the other anon as to why Honda makes only FF. What's the point of your posts?

>>15555440

Because 99.8% Honda's customer base doesn't know what a FWD is or how many cylinders they got. They're not going to change all their vehicles drivetrains because some no car, bus riding, video game playing faggots think RWD is superior.

>>15555910
i owned an 00 prelude

its an accord

only with more pigfat

fucking shit car

cant handle

no idea why anyone likes that fucking shit garbage car

>>15555473
>Honda AWD
MORE LIKE ALL WHEEL FRAUD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkiv-bWbLIo

>>15556107
This

FWD is best setup for the average person who couldn't afford AWD.

RWD fun cars are fun, but they don't pay the bills.

Even the best selling roadster, MEMEiata is a small amount of mazda sales in any year since it's intro. The top cars are always sedans, family vehicles and econoboxes.

Same thing with Honda, people buy CRVs civics accords and shit, they don't care about delsols or whatever (yes i know it's not rwd, but it's still a 'sports car' though not really cos any car that isn't rwd will never be a sports car, fuck you if you disagree, there is no sports if you have an automatic fwd, it's just a factory ricer at that point)

Then why can't they make their higher brand civic like the type R an AWD or RWD since it's not really for economic Normie purposes

Because econoboxes sell better. Most people want a cheap car that has good gas mileage and can transport a family comfortably with safety in mind. That's just the way of the current automobile market.

You'll have to look for specialty automobiles and sporty manufacturers for performance.

>>15559017
You'd have to redesign the frame and shit.

>>15555440
FF is superior to FR and MR for stability

Your only argument against FF is literally torque steer

>>15555580
the ridge line is an AWD but its FF when its not running all 4's

>>15556537
what is this test even testing for?

AWD kicks in when it detects traction loss

>>15561060
>FF is superior to FR and MR for stability
Only if you don't know how to drive. Do you not know how to drive?

>>15561099
>yea well I'm a professional driver and any flaws MR or FR has is non-existent
FF is objectively more stable than other drive trains

>>15561114
>FF is objectively more stable than other drive trains
Only if you don't know how to drive. Do you not know how to drive?
>implying you have to be a professional driver to attain the superior RWD advantage
Only the hamfisted throttle stompers believe this.

>>15561067
The new Ridgeline is AWD all the time and can send 100% of it's torque to the rear wheels

>>15561158
enjoy your under steer and traction loss

>yea well gitgud who cares if every car maker is making FF cars because they're more stable hurr durr just stop understeering

>>15561178
if its sending all its torque to the rear then its not AWD is it?

>>15561195
99*

Happy?

>>15561188
>enjoy your under steer
I don't experience that, because I don't have an inferior drive layout.
>and traction loss
I don't experience that unless intentional, because I'm not a hamfisted throttle stomper.

>>15555440
Honda's are built to be reliable and economical
RWD system lose approx 20-25% of their power through the drivetrain so FWD with the exact same engine is already more powerful and fuel efficient

>>15561201
>umm the flaws of FR doesn't apply to me
>theres no possible reason every manufacturer stopped making FR's for FF's instead
>it couldn't possibly have to do with anything with it for more stability

>>15561216
No you see according to some retards that doesn't count because you're not a good driver

>>15559069
Econoboxes sell well, but it's a cutthroat market and the margins suck. Pretty much every manufacturer tries to move shit upmarket whenever possible.

But even then, Honda's reputation is built on reliability and practicality, not "fun", and the average consumer doesn't give a fuck about driving anyway. These days a "nice" car means a fancy interior equipped with a bunch of silly infotainment gadgetry.

>>15561229
>umm the flaws of FR doesn't apply to me
If you know how to drive, this is correct.
>theres no possible reason every manufacturer stopped making FR's for FF's instead
I never said that. What I did say is FWD is more stabile for the laymen.
>it couldn't possibly have to do with anything with it for more stability
>implying the majority of vehicle consumers aren't laymen
kek. Below is a list of LeMans winning FWD cars;
.

>>15561250
>its another "I'm a good driver" cure-all post

>>15561250
>stabile
Kek, thanks phone. If you had drive wheels, they'd definitely be to the front.

>>15561258
So you admit FWD is inferior?

>>15561250
>muh leemanz
>this is the only driving that counts

>>15561275
its not, it offers superior stability over FR

>>15561250
>>15561275
Are you 16? Did you save up all that money from your news paper deliver job to buy a rusted out Miata on Craigslist?

>>15561079
>Both front wheels spinning like crazy
>BUT THERE'S NO TRACTION LOSS
impressive.

Also, no. The CRV is trying to move the car forward with it's rear wheels, problem is, the rear wheels aren't allowed enough toque to move the car. so 'AWD' has kicked in, if you raised the car on a lift they would start spinning.

This is why the car doesn't just roll back, because rear wheels have enough torque to counter act the normal force.

But then because of heat build up the rear diff simply heats up too much, and the car deactivates it to save the diff. Turning into 2wd, and this is why the car then slides off and rolls back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG9yWf4MAtI

The sad part is, the old CRV used to be fine cos it used a mechanical system with a bigger diff. It's just the new system that sucks.

>>15561292
jesus I had no idea, how the fuck does Honda get away with some shit like this

I thought it'd be just like my 06 Element where the AWD worked beautifully I couldn't figure out what the test was actually doing

>>15561292
>the rear wheels aren't allowed enough toque to move the car. so 'AWD' has kicked in
Wait, if the car is normally an FF and AWD kicks in the rear wheels should start spinning, in this sentence you make it sound like the rear wheels naturally turn and AWD isn't kicked in yet?

>>15561287
>its not, it offers superior stability over FR
It doesn't, unless you're too inept to pick up a RWD.
>>15561277
Do you consider dropping the kids at school to be a more appropriate measure?

>>15561245
Exactly. You have to out-econobox your competitors and jerk your reputation around. Honda and Toyota are known as reliable affordable economy cars. So they build extremely conservatively and don't try to push any crazy boundaries.

>These days a "nice" car means a fancy interior equipped with a bunch of silly infotainment gadgetry.
Yep. Forget performance, forget style, it's all about muh empeegees and muh gadgets.

>>15561320
>It doesn't, unless you're too inept to pick up a RWD.
You're fucking stupid, manufacturers switched to FF designed cars for a multitude of reasons listed here>>15561216
stability is another reason why FF is superior. In slick conditions FF's don't have any chance of losing traction and spinning out the car.

You're literally retarded if you're denying the science behind why FF is superior for the purpose of consumer environments

>>15561292
I googled some more into this, turns out theres a firmware upgrade for the VSA and AWD failure that would fix this entirely

>>15561337
>Honda and Toyota are known as reliable affordable economy cars. So they build extremely conservatively and don't try to push any crazy boundaries.

Except look at Acura and Lexus

Acura is still mostly FF i4 shitboxes with slighty nicer interiors. based on Accords and Civics

Lexus on the other hand has their own RWD platforms with V6s and even V8 performance versions of some of their cars. MUCH nicer interiors as well

Honda is just shit

>>15561345
>manufacturers switched to FF designed cars for a multitude of reasons listed here
>fuel efficiency
Man, you sure have impressed me with those em pee gees bro.
>sharing drive and steering wheels
>better stability
8/8 shitpost m8

>>15561427
>implying EPG's don't matter when you're buying a car for every day commute and shit

>ur just shit posting
>all the science around FF's being more stable is all fake because it defeats my narrative

>>15561443
>implying EPG's don't matter when you're buying a car for every day commute and shit
I've maintained all along that FWD is acceptable for the layman. I'm not arguing that.

>all the science around FRs being more stable is all fake because it defeats my narrative
Right back at ya shitlord.

>>15561443
>>implying EPG's don't matter when you're buying a car for every day commute and shit
If you're an econocuck maybe

>>15561443
>muh stability
In that case we should all be driving AWD

>>15561494
>>15561479
>>15561470
So we're all in agreement, FWD is inferior?

>>15561508
Finish highschool before posting here

>>15561508
Duh

>>15561300
No, your Element and any CRV before this generation i think 4th gen, has a REALLY GOOD AWD system.

I know cos i have a 1999 and you can just take the front CV axles off and it becomes a RWD. I know cos i had to do that for a few minutes when i was replacing my CV axles and fucked up.

The new CRV has a diff that's tiny and isn't allowed enough torque to do that.

>>15561318
No, it's a FWD until front wheels spin, then the rear wheels are allowed torque until no wheel spin is detected.

The new CRV diff isn't allowed enough torque to move the car forward using ONLY the rear wheels like the old CRV was allowed. Or most other Slip detection AWD are allowed.

All awd are allowed a certain torque split to the rear and front wheels, some cars like say patriot usually are 100% torque to the front and up to 40% to the rear, when slip is detected. But you can lock it so that each side has 50/50 split no matter what. Subarus generally always have 60/40 split so are always AWD.

Most REAL offroad cars are allowed as much torque to any axle as the engine can supply, so it can be 50/50 10/90 100/0 52/48 whatever is needed.

The CRV diff only applies enough torque that the rear wheels lock up, not enough to move the car forward like a good AWD system (like in that example ford escape) did.

Also inb4 ford shill. The CRV was the ONLY small crossover tested that failed that test. All other CUV except Subaru use slip detection system, only CRV failed, everyone else (of course subaru) passed the test.

>>15561516
Answer the question

>>15561644
Only after you're done going through puberty

>>15561627
jesus I almost bought a 2016 crv if not for a nice civic staring in my face

>>15561649
>projecting
Funny, given the FWD Honda you're defending is the perfect first vehicle for the pubescent teen.

>>15561667
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_layout

>Placing the mass of the drivetrain over the driven wheels moves the centre of gravity farther forward than a comparable rear-wheel-drive layout, improving traction and directional stability on wet, snowy, or icy surfaces.[1][2][3]
>Predictable handling characteristics: front-wheel-drive cars, with a front weight bias, tend to understeer at the limit, which (according to SAAB engineer Gunnar Larsson) is easier since it makes instinct correct in avoiding terminal oversteer, and less prone to result in fishtailing or a spin.[3][4]
>A skilled driver can control the movement of the car even while skidding by steering, throttling and pulling the hand brake (given that the hand brake operates the rear wheels as in most cases, with some Citroen and Saab models being notable exceptions).
>It is easier to correct trailing-throttle or trailing-brake oversteer.[3]

>No guys the FF increased stability over FR isn't real!

>>15561351
The fix was offered for only the 2013 model after it also failed this test, and was only offered to Sweden.

After the new failure, Honda instead gave out a written response that amounts to:
>This isn't a realistic scenario
>The read diff is weak as shit
>It's not REALLY AWD system
>The diff is made to save fuel
>Don't get it too hot, it turns into 2wd if you do
>We haven't gotten customer complaints
>CRV IS NUMBER ONE SELLER!!!

And that's about it.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/attention-all-honda-owners-your-4x4-crv-might-not-be-a-4x4-after-all/

Also read the comments, i got a chuckle out of them.

>>15561658
Another lesson in, do your research.

No really, i spent an entire day of google reviews, reading tech specs, reading third party tests, and so on, before i bought my 2016 Nissan Rogue.

It also btw has slip detection based AWD, but it is normally a 100/0 torque split, until slip is detected, then the rear diff is allowed up to 50% of torque.

Also it has awd lock that locks center diff to 50/50 split. Though if you use it too much it gets too hot and goes into 2wd mode. Unlike say a jeep patriot who's rear diff can handle all the heat you throw at it. There are better awd systems yes, subaru genuinly has the best AWD system any CUV offers, but that's cos it's a full time system not a part time like everyone else.

I want to test how much heat that takes this winter.

>>15561694
>FF has increased stability over FR according to some guy of a company that is defunct
Gonna need a source from a relevant engineer, not one that rode a whole maunfacturer off the outside of a corner.

>>15561699
>>It's not REALLY AWD system
I almost don't believe this, they advertise it as a 2014 Honda CRV AWD the same way they have every other CRV, and even the pilot, crosstour and shit do have the AWD appendage

>>15561720
>that engineer from SAAB doesn't count
>pick a different engineer
careful don't let off the back pedal your argument will stall

>>15561720
>gonna need a source
its sourced right in the wiki article you blind shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_layout#cite_note-daytona-3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_layout#cite_note-hidden-4
its highlighted right there

>>15561723
Well, it's supposed to be a SLIP DETECTING AWD also known as Part time AWD.

And there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that, for a family car it's perfectly normal and even most offroaders are 2wd until they're either locked or detect slip. And it still earns the AWD tag.

The problem lies in Hondas AWD system, that CLEARLY isn't AWD at all. Only the front wheels are actually capable of driving the vehicle.

A good awd system is such that if all wheels lost traction except one that one is able to move the car forward. And most systems can do this, but honda only the front wheels can do shit.

Problem is, no one is ever gonna call them on it. Sad but Honda is living on it's reputation.

Sucks it was my favorite Japanese manufacturer. I'm not sure if Subi gets the spot now or if i should give it to Nii san.

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>What could have been

>>15561250
>thinking lemans is the same as driving in everyday conditions including shit road and weather conditions.
>moving goalposts
And besides, in a race you just want the most power you can get out of your vehicle. Anything over 500whp on a fwd car is just not going to get to the wheels so rwd and awd platforms are used for putting down tons of power. Does that mean they are more stable? No, it means they're more powerful. Does that matter at all in a real world environment? Absolutely not.

Oh and it's not like any of this matters to you, the only racing you do is on the bench.

>>15567087
>in a race you just want the most power you can get out of your vehicle. Anything over 500whp on a fwd car is just not going to get to the wheels so rwd and awd platforms are used for putting down tons of power.
so you admit FWD is inferior?

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>>15561412
>acura interiors are shit
U fukkin wot m8?

>>15567114
It isn't inferior, there are things called pros and cons.
FF has less drivetrain power loss (more efficient), is the lightest layout, and has much better stability in all road and weather conditions.
Rwd and awd as layouts are capable of putting down REALLY large amounts of power, but it would be in vehicles that you will never be able to afford and it doesn't apply to real world situations.

TL;DR your miata will never be a ferrari and will still get BTFO'd by civics.

>>15567167
>FF has less drivetrain power loss (more efficient)
>is the lightest layout
>and has much better stability in all road and weather conditions.
Relevant only when your shitbox is;
1)underpowered to begin with
2)as of above
3)primarily marketed to people who apply lipstick daily.
In only these examples is FWD superior.

>>15561412
Look at the corolla, it's a chincy fwd automatic 4 speed dog turd. Toyota makes their fair share of dog turds, in fact Lexus is not their bread and butter, dog turds like the Corolla are.

>>15567167
Isn't AWD have the top stability in all road and weather conditions?

>>15561412
>Lexus on the other hand has their own RWD platforms
Name one platform in a volume selling Lexus that isn't shared with a Toyota model. Do it.
> with V6s
Honda/Acura doesnt have a V6? Ooookay. Let me guess your Lexus V6 isnt used in Toyotas either, right?

>>15567209
>this triggers the FWD cucks
Inb4 some long winded mental gymnastics trying to justify their flawed design.

>>15567227
Inb4 some RWD faggot starts latching onto the AWD wagon

>>15561627
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-niPZTBouk

I can't tell if I'm falling for the advertisement or not, but it seems that there are other manufacturers (not just Honda CR-V) with the same kind of weakish-part-time-AWD. Any ideas? Maybe Subaru just cherrypicked or played around with the throttle so the competitors wouldn't look as good.

>>15567186
>not wanting the most out of your engine
>implying your vehicle would make anywhere near the amount of power needed to have a real advantage over fwd

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>>15555440

>>15567209
Heavy and can induce oversteer.

>>15556120
You drove the shit gen.

I've driven a 91, 95 and 2001. 3rd and 4th gens are definetly not similar to accords.

Fifth gens were boats.

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>>15567234
assmad FWDcuck detected
I'd be unhappy too if I understeered off a corner because my stability levels were too high.

>>15569374
5th gen is not that much heavier
I drive an accord that weighs the same, it still handles pretty good

>>15555440
>Is there a reason why most of their cars are FF.
Because FF is more economical, practical, and fuel efficient, hallmarks of Honda.

>>15569406
It's also more boring and infamous for understeer plus torquesteering

>>15569453
>It's also more boring
Nobody cares for a grocery getter.

> infamous for understeer
This happens to nobody driving normally.

>torquesteering
This happens to nobody driving normally.

>>15569453
This.
>>15569459
So you admit FWD is inferior?

>>15569466
>So you admit FWD is inferior?
For motorsport applications only.

>>15569475
>For measurable objectives only
ftfy

>>15569479
99% of people don't spend their lives on a track.
FF is superior for the commuter vehicle.
Only deluded autists believe any different.

>>15569483
>the only thing FF excels at is shitboxes
So you admit FWD is inferior?

>>15569508
>So you admit FWD is inferior?
nope.

FWD>RWD

>better fuel efficency
>cheaper manufacturing costs
>better handling in poor road conditions
What's not to love?
>muh torque steer
>muh understear
kek memes

>>15569525
>can only list shitbox reasons
read;>>15569508

>>15569508
only if you don't like cars that turn.

>>15569579
>it's opposite day
FWD cucks resort to shitposting.

>>15569556
>>can only list shitbox reasons
So what 100% of /o/ drives?
>implying your burned out CVPI isn't a shitbox.

>>15569508
Your b8 is weak m8

>>15567123
>Thinking this is a good interior

Hey man, i like acuras. In fact i like honda in general, but there interiors aren't good.

>>15561694
Tfw my civic hatch isnt cornering fast enough until im understeering into corners

>>15567246
It's comparing a full time AWD system to a part time system. I don't know if Subaru is retarded or if it thinks we are.

The reason the part time systems can't climb is because they have traction, i know that's weird, but wait.

In order for AWD to kick in, the part time systems HAVE to detect wheel spin, and until they do, they won't put power to the rear as well.

Now, here's a clear example of subie cherry picking, for one, the cherokee quadratrac I first off isn't a full time system, if they used quadra trac 2 it would have climbed that hill, because that is a full time AWD system not like quadra trac which is basically rear wheel drive until they slip and NEEDs brake traction control on. Also quadra trac a shit, enjoy your electrical problems fag.

Another note on the cherokee, i'm pretty sure it has a locker so it would have climbed the second you activated that.

Ford fusion has open diffs, and brake controlled traction control, judging by the spinning my guess is trac control is off, or the open diffs just spin around.

Sportage, see above.

Rogue, see above and the rogue has a AWD lock which would have done it.

Here's the thing, subaru's only selling point is AWD, there's a reason the interior is shitty quality and everything else sucks. No one denies Subie AWD can only be beat by another FULL TIME SYSTEM like idk jeep or trucks or whatever. But for the price you can have a faster, more luxurious etc car. Subaru sinks it's money into AWD and other manufacturers do other shit. That's why they have such a tiny market in comparison. Basically if all you value is AWD, go subie always except when rock crawling or trail hiking is needed, then go with a truck or jeep or older 4x4. If anything else is value, subie isn't a good choice.

Also honda's problem isn't the same, honda simply doesn't put enough torque to the rear wheels period, not if the system is confused or whatever, just not enough to the rear at all. The rear diff can't.

>>15567246
>no audi

soft as shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d85AmkJpPRY

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>>15569525

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGljFQUWLzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szo6hEUdZA8

RWD>FWD, always.

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>>15556537
>cos any car that isn't rwd will never be a sports car, fuck you if you disagree

>Integra Type R
>Golf GTI
>Celica GT-S
>Fiesta ST

>Not sports cars

Fuck you too.

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>>15567123
>Thinking this compares to Lexus in any way

Pretty good bait anon you forced me to reply.

The RSX is cheaper than most of its competition, only beating out a cobalt.

>>15573036
>>cos any car that isn't rwd will never be a sports car, fuck you if you disagree
>implying that's what i said
>That list of cars
Thanks for proving my point.

>>15572746
Alright, thanks. Is there any information for figuring out if a part time or full time AWD system (from any (older) manufacturer) can transmit torque to a single wheel? Just compare open/locking diffs and braking-the-slipping-wheel trac control?

Just looking for a good sub-$5k winter DD in Canada. I've heard that an FF platform with winter tires is enough to survive. (conditions are ice and 30 cm ~ one foot of snow) I just want AWD just in case. XJ Cherokee and Subaru Legacy Outbacks are currently in consideration.

>>15573721
Nigga i live in Canada,

I drove Toronto to Winnipeg wintertime when i went to visit my uncles something cousin with him. The dudes dad died and he was really good to my uncle so he just HAD to go and i wasn't OK with him going alone in his focus that was falling apart. He's been good to me. Plus i had nothing better going for me.

I did it in my 1999 Honda CRV. It's a part time AWD system with a new set of blizzaks.

That's all you need, in the WORST conditions when shit is totally fucked. A good set of winter tires and some AWD is all you need. And yes the snow was fucked, we got stormed on for a whole day, blizzards and shit it was fucked. Took us 2 and a half or so days, alternating between who's driving and who's sleeping.

I also use winter tires to go offroad on hunting trails in my CRV, cos fuck having to buy another car.

Where do you live? Wherever it be, learn to tie tire chains, make a set for yourself, and keep it in the car. I went to pakistan in the mountain regions, the snow is worst than canuck winter, and those fuckers can do it fine with. And learn to drive in winter, awd offers safety but too many people make the mistake of assuming it's all they need.

Subie systems are derived from their rallying game, most part time systems with trac control and most even without are fine. A Cherokee would be overkill, but i'd still tell you to get it cos they're an extra level of safety. With lockers and shit.