When will people realize displacement is king? EngineLabs LS

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>>15305728
>still less than the ford gt's ecoboost V6

>>15305733
>V6 turbo
>Literally playing with cheats

>>15305733
naturally aspirated only.

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>>15305747
>>15305751
>excuses

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>>15305754

>>15305728
>When will people realize displacement is king?

2016 - 90

>>15305751
I.e a turbo is a replacement for displacement.

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>>15305758
>displacement is king
>no!!! don't use turbos!!!

>>15305751
why? na is gay

>>15305780
We love things that go BWAAAAAA stututututu, right marty?

>>15305787
you dont care what it sounds like while trying to keep it straight.

whats the point of DOHC when you makes less power than an LS3 engine that weighs less and is smaller?

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>>15305888
You were saying?

>>15305888
>muh revs!

>>15305764
Inferior at that. Objectively.

>>15305895
see
>>15305892

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>gm fangirls literally ignoring the gt's existence
kek, btfo by a V6

>>15305903
Turbos are only made because emissions are getting harder. There's nothing objectively better about turbo lag, inferior power band, worse efficiency (irl applications)

>TQ

this will never not trigger me. Read a physics textbook you fucking ignoramuses.

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>>15305912
Turbos equal setting faster laps, not that GM would know anything about that.

>>15305924
The c7 smokes cars 2-3x its price. Quit meming pal.

>>15305933
It doesn't beat the GT, dumbass.

>>15305937
>comparing racecars to production cars

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>>15305944
Are you retarded? The Ford GT is a production car.

>>15305937
If you can buy a Z06, and you can afford a GT but Ford refuses to sell it to you - is the Ford really a faster car for you?

>>15305949
Limited production only. They'll be building just 500 or something like that.

>>15305949
It's not out yet you fukin mong and if you're talking about the old gen, the c7 still smokes it.

>>15305953
Yes? It's still faster. All I'm seeing from you is damage control.
>>15305956
>excuses
Apparently pushrods are only better when it's convenient for you. Keep crying, cuck.

>>15305958
>the c7 beats the ford gt
no

>>15305892
weights over 120lbs more than a LS3.
larger
try again.

>>15305975
[citation needed]

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>>15305966

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>>15305949
>$400,000
What the fuck is ford thinking.

i'm willing to bet the turbo S will still rape it for 200K

>>15305983
Ford just follows trends.
Besides the ST family, nothing has been innovative or new. The gt350 may be an exception but until the new gen zl1 or z28 comes out, I'm not convinced

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>>15305982
>intentionally ignoring the 2017 GT
Okay, I can move goalposts too.

>still slower than a bac mono

>>15305983
No, no it won't. A Turbo S is a gran tourer. It's slower around every track compared to a GTR or Corvette. Fuck off, shitposter.

>>15305728
Displacement isn't always king though, especially in racing series. All this shows is that the Modular design sucks, and that the LS is pretty good for building on a budget.

>>15305733
Apples to oranges. Twinturbo V8 second gen GT's made more HP than this insulting V6.

>>15305892
Not him, but a DOHC V6 + turbo's + intercoolers is significantly bigger, and exponentially more of a packaging problem, than a pushrod OHV V8.

>>15305912
>Lag
Can be minimised nowadays. With quick-shifting automatic transmissions, twinscroll and variable geometry turbo's, and creative ECU mapping, turbo lag is extremely small nowadays.
>Inferior power band
As long ad it's wide enough to still be in the powerband after a shift, that's fine.
>Worde IRL efficiency
True.

However, turbo's simply make power. By allowing for extra compression, they remove many of the limitations of the ICE.

>>15305991
that's a sick go-kart bro.

>>15305991
Learn to read. And yeah a million dollar porch is also faster than all these!!! Whoa!!!
>>15305994
Comparing the gt350 dyno to the old z28, the z28 had 100+ more hp in all ranges besides the very top. T b h it depends on your taste if you like power down low or into the very top

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>>15305994
>"Apples to oranges. Twinturbo V8 second gen GT's made more HP than this insulting V6."

>made more horsepower
Yet they're still slower around a track than the new one. Fuck you and your "horsepower", ford chose track performance over muh straight line speed.

>"Not him, but a DOHC V6 + turbo's + intercoolers is significantly bigger, and exponentially more of a packaging problem, than a pushrod OHV V8"

WOW! A NATURALLY ASPIRATED ENGINE IS LIGHTER THAN A TURBO ENGINE?!!!! SHOCKING!!!

>>15305995
>excuses

>>15306005
>damage control
kek, pushrod cucks are mad now

>>15306012
Ford still loses to Porsche.
>HURR DAMAGE CONTROL
Fucking autists.

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>>15306017
Okay? A million dollar Porsche is faster than a Ford. Atleast I can sleep at night knowing that Ford still beat GM.

>>15306017
Ford had an LMP1 car? Was it invisible?

>>15306028
Assmad ford gets cucked by Porsche

>>15306012
I wasn't talking about the chassis though, just the engine. Of courde the newer GT is faster with it's significant lightening, and DCT gearbox. Go ahead and slap a twinturbo Modular into the newest GT - it'll be a lot faster. The V6 engine itself is inferior.

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>>15306028
>pig dies head on in crash.jpg

>>15306028
>A million dollar Porsche faster than a million dollar Ford
Ftfy

>>15306012
>excuses
that go-Kart isn't a real car.
pick another car 2 bench raCE.

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>>15306038
No, I just admitted porsche was faster.

porsche>ford>gm
>>15306039
No, it wouldn't be faster because it wouldn't fit. The engine bay is incredibly small. No current Ford V8 would fit.
>>15306043
Ford doesn't make million dollar vehicles.
>>15306045
>assmad

>>15306046
Well, that's chassis optimisation for you. Now let's put a built twinturbo aluminium Windsor in there.

Ford does build million dollar cars. Thode GT3 cars are expensive as fuck.

>>15306059
>aluminum windsor
What part of it wouldn't fit don't you get? The car was literally built around the engine. Ford chose to make the car light instead of a dyno queen.
>ford does build million dollar cars
>implying non production cars are relevant

>>15306046
Porsche is king, stop cucking for ford dude. Alpha Porsche>Boomer Ford

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>>15306077
Atleast they're still better than GM. That's all that matters.

>>15306071
A pushrod OHV V8 engine is approximately the same size of a DOHC V6. Turbos and intercoolers can be similarly sized for similar HP goals.
Everyone builds around a specific engine. Doesn't mean it'll be impossible to swap.

Porsche's LMP beat a GT3 Ford. Both of those cars are million dollar cars. That's what's relevant.

>>15306082
Doesn't matter, Porsche is literally #1. Why are you so mad, can't handle your German overlords? It's hard for you to admit it. Sounds like cucklogic to me

>>15306082
>Lowering your goals this much

>>15306087
>Austrian overlords
Ftfy

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>>15306086
>naturally aspirated
Ford is actually trying to be faster. This is why you aren't in charge of Ford's performance divison.
>>15306087
I'm agreeing with you retard. Porsche just won lemans. I'm just saying Ford still remains better than GM.
>>15306095
assmad gm fangirl spotted

>>15306100
I never implied swapping the turbo V6 for an n/a V8. I implied swapping the DOHC turbo V6 for a turbo pushrod OHV V8 - hence saying that the turbos can be similarly sized.

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>>15306110
So? Add more weight for no reason? K.

>>15306100
>I'm just saying Ford still remains better than GM.
So you're saying Ford is just a hair better than one of the worst companies in the entire automotive business? Way to lower your goals.

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>>15306120
>"just a hair better"

>>15306120
What the fuck has this got to do with Peugeot?

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>>15306124
>corvette literally disqualified

>>15306118
>Implying an DOHC V6 weighs more than one of the smallest, lightest pushrod V8's ever designed
>Implying Fords Ecoboost V6 isn't heavier than an aluminium Windsor
Even in iron block form, Windsors are almost as light as alumonium LS engines. Last time a Windsor was used in a supercar, it made 750hp with less then half a bar of boost. You try that in an Ecoboost V6.

(Also, that car was only 50lbs heavier than the newest GT, despite not having the might of a billion dollar corporation behind it)

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>>15306141
>Implying an DOHC V6 weighs more than one of the smallest, lightest pushrod V8's ever designed

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.


>"(Also, that car was only 50lbs heavier than the newest GT, despite not having the might of a billion dollar corporation behind it)"

[citation needed]

>>15306158
My bad, typo, should've been 80lbs
>Ford GT: 2890lbs
http://horsepowerkings.com/sources-2017-ford-gt-will-weigh-around-2900-lbs-could-cost-around-400000/
>Saleen S7 (Twinturbo): 2968lbs
https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.caranddriver.com/files/saleen-s7-twin-turbosaleen-s7-twin-turbo-specs.pdf&q=s7%20twinturbo%20kerb%20weight&ved=0ahUKEwiIqM_56bjNAhUKBcAKHUN5B4cQFgg0MAY&usg=AFQjCNHZQ_lMRqKziHgIV2P88yxJYN2AQA&sig2=qkp8IYm0Vf1VxVbMFkTfhw

Although some sources cite a 2750lbs weight for the twinturbo, but it seems like they're confusing the TT with the regular S7. Still, mighty impressive considering the disparity in engineering budget.

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>>15306181
>rumored to be 2890 lbs
>rumored to be
>rumored
Well, I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. Into the trash it goes.

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I'm joining the Saab master race tomorrow lads. Like pic related but sadly not the XWD because they're rare as fuck here. Get in there quick and pick up a bit of Swedish history before it becomes the Islamic Republic of Sweden. The keys are a plastic cube that slots into the center console. There's a 'NIGHTMODE' button on the dash that turns of all the interior and dash lights except for the speedo and turbo needles. This is a car with character, a car with personality. This the dawn of a new age. By this time tomorrow I will be a Saab-boy, assuming my rightful place in the pantheon of patrician Saab drivers like Jerry Seinfeld, Action Bronson, and my high school English Literature teacher. Goodbye, shit former life, I'm a Saab-boy now and I'm never looking back.

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>>15305728
>chevy ls fans

>>15306189
When did Saab start offering "night mode"?

>>15305764
turbo fanboi here, turbos are a very good bandaid for displacement not a replacement.

The characteristics of turbos vs more displacement makes them particularly suited to certain circumstances - which in those specific circumstances can make turbos superior to more displacement.

They still aren't a replacement.

>>15305912
>inferior power band

Weird then that almost every halo car from almost every manufacturer that has one is turbocharged. Chevrolet being a conspicuous outlier.

There is a very good reason for that.
Modern day turbocharged engines have heavily programmed timing and A/F ratios to allow for relatively stable power delivery. In essence, they're designed (particularly on higher end models) to deliver a relatively stable torque curve.

Cars like the M5/M6 have engines designed to increase their timing and change A/F mixtures depending on conditions to deliver the same power the entire time. This ultimately means that the engine was strangled and peak power wasn't attained.

As an aside, it also suffered a huge amount of recall issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N63#S63

You look at old turbocharged cars and see how laggy they were, that's because they were not programmed to run for least loss, they were going for maximum power.
Ultimately the turbocharger is a third-party supplier of air, and unless you're storing that before demand or limiting the amount of output, that's always going to be less responsive.

It'd be like me trying to deliver my dick to your mother via DHL.
By the time it arrived, she would've already found another thing to ride.

>>15306990
This >>15307162 was meant for you.

>>15305728
>pushrods

lol sorry gramps, get with the times.

>>15307162
We're not talking about old cars, except GM who is so resistant to change that they'd rather kill people and go bankrupt than make good cars.

Also, while response is important time to torque with modern turbocharged engines is entirely within reason and the torque curve is similar or superior to n/a.

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>>15307213
>weighs 2200lbs less
>1 second faster

>>15305733
>>15305754
>>15305766
>>15305909
Okay, v6 has a turbo. Now slap a turbo on the v8 and tell me who wins.

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>>15307182
Let me explain turbos and throttle response in laymen terms.

A cable throttle is like having sex. It just works, it's instant.
Fly-by wire throttle is like skype sex with toys, it kinda works and the ending is the same, there's just some dicking around.

Duel-scroll ceramic turbos are snapchatting videos of you jacking it, sure it's happening, but it's not really what and when you want it.

Small>Large twin-turbo setups are like fucking a fleshlight whilst watching POV porn. It does work, but its just not quite right.

A single turbo is like sending a picture of your dick in the mail and getting one sent back. It takes for fucking ever and you've probably changed your mind in the meantime.

Quad-turbos are for people that inject silicone into their dicks and are proud when they are told they aren't legally aloud to participate in sexual activity.

Superchargers are like fucking hookers, it gets the job done, but you've wasted a lot of resources and you're going to make a terrible racket doing it.

Theoretically the best engine is an electric motor. But, since they suck, the next best bet is a NA motor with electric assistance.

Like a LaFerrari...or an old Panoz...or the 2014 WEC winning car; the Toyota TSO40.

Now that, that is like having 6 10/10's worshipping your dick in a 4 hour non-stop fuckfest with a full heavy-metal orchestra scoring the entire event.

Pic related is the equivalent of a 65 year old man attempting to get an erection by getting someone to deliver a letter describing abacus games via a fleet of Miatas.

>>15305983
The new GT is a meme car. The prospective owners have to fucking meme it on social media or they're not allowed to buy one LMAO

FORD HAS MUCH CONFIDENCE IN THEIR MACHINE IF THEY'RE FORCING PEOPLE TO SHILL IT AS A REQUISITE OF PURCHASE

>>15307222
>one second faster on a short track

That's an eternity, brosephina.

>>15307222
assmad gm fangirl spotted
>>15307230
a V6, a V8 it can't put its power down on small tracks

>>15307246
Not exactly like they are forcing you to buy one. If you're only making 250 and selling all of them, and it's your Halo car, seems like a pretty cool and modern marketing ploy.

Almost like a mobile billboard, but far more eye catching.

>>15307267
THEY'RE MAKING MORE THAN 250!!! STOP FUCKING SAYING THEY'RE MAKING ONLY 250!!

>>15305728
Now start putting some real HP on that LS3 and see how it will hold up compared to the coyote lmao.

>>15307267
But if you want to own one they are forcing you to do their dirty work.

So they spend less, reducing overheads of per-unit costs on marketing yet charge $400k anyway.

>>15307245
>he thinks he can actually perceive the difference between a cable throttle and DBW taking input from the throttle pot, calculating exactly how much torque the driver wants, consulting the tables in the ROM and making the valves, injectors, and throttle plate do exactly what the driver wants thousands of times per second.

I stopped reading here because you
1) have no idea what your talking about a because your metaphors are shit
2) would rather have less torque over less of the powerband as long as you can tell yourself you can feel the difference.
3) there's literally nothing wrong with electric motors which is something you'd know if you knew anything. EVs are handicapped by battery capacity and battery discharge rates - not the motors.

>>15307245
Except you're dead wrong, single turbos can work just fine, the Td04 on a stock subaru starts making boost at 2500rpm and is at full boost by 3000rpm.

As long as the amount of exhaust you make is enough for the turbo spooling issues are non existent.

>>15307284
>>15307291
you're replying to copypasta reddit bait

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>>15307296
>gm fangirls so assmad they're resorting to copypasta

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M12

>1.5 inline 4
>1400hp.

>>15307296
>>15307299
>Implying I didn't just type that out whilst I was taking a dump as a possum does its mating call, waking my dogs up at 2:23AM

Faggots are scared of genius.

>>15307307
b..but bmw reliability is a meme..

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>mfw a Ford V6 beat Chevy's V8

>>15307312
Sure. The wiki states that the engines were unreliable. But cant deny it was a 1.5 turbocharged doing some of the highest power an F1 car made. 1100 hp, or 1400 if its the 2.0 variant.

REMINDER

THE LS IS 100% FROM TOP TO BOTTOM A FORD ENGINE.
1. FORD FIRING ORDER.
2. FORD OILING SYSTEM.
3. FORD CROSS BOLT MAINS.
4. FORD COOLING SYSTEMS.
5. FORD 10 BOLT HEAD PATTERN.
6.FORD CENTERED THRUST BEARING.
7. FORD SYMMETRICAL INTAKE AND EXHAUST PORTS COMBINED WITH FORD 427 HIGH RISER PORTS.
8. SODIUM FILLED VALVES (FORD RACE VALVE).
9. BEEHIVE VALVE SPRINGS (FORD COSWORTH).
10. FORD ANGLED PLUG.
THE LS BLOCK IS A COPY OF THE 4.6 MODULAR WITH THICKER WEBBING.

>>15307387
I don't know what it is about chevy fags, but they go insane when you mention this and then just say "Found on road dead hur hurr" It's sad really.

>>15307387
Reminder that the BMW V8 DOHC M62 is a superior engine.

It does 400 hp N/A just as a 4.0 at 6200 RPM.

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>>15307421

>>15307291
Too bad it chokes the engine on the top end.

>>15307273
Alright then, I'll admit they're only making 199.

Fordfags, explain for me: if the Modular is so superior to the LS and Windsor, how come everybody is swapping LS's into their Fox, or building their Windsor, instead of swapping in a Modular?

>>15307521
Cheap

>>15307521
Because you can get a yunk yard 5.3 out of a truck for $500

>>15307469
>MPG

Why do you have a V8 running at max power if you care about MPG?
>cost
You are getting a DOHC V8 and you think its going to be cheap?.

You've got a 100 hp/liter N/A car.

The moment they can make it rev higher you've got an extra 50 hp, while OHV pieces of shit wont ever get past 6000 RPM, even race-tier engines.

>>15305728
When will people realize Lynyrd Skynyrd is the best band ever and that chewing tobacco is the greatest too?

>>15307912
Funny, my LS has a factory redline set over 7000.

And its not a race engine.

>>15307957
Funny, my M63 has a redline of 9k RPM

>>15307968
Funny, your M63 has a shitty torque curve and sounds even worse

>>15307469
MPG ? at which speed with what cars ? what gearbox ?
MPG aren't relevant here
there is no weight or size info either
shit/10

>>15308128
>Ford and GM fags assblasted by powerful german V8
>they dont know how to make an OHC V8.

>>15308153
>he doesnt know about Ford and GM's OHC engines
You're trolling yourself so hard I don't even need to lift a finger.

>>15305912
> inferior power band

But powerful n/a motors tend to be peakier than turbocharged. That's not really better even though it can be fun.

>>15308165
If you compare a smaller turbo engine like a 4.0L to a larger NA engine, like say, 6.2L, of the same peak power, the NA engine is going to have the better power band 9 times out of 10.

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>>15308146
assmad bmw fangirl spotted

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>>15308128
>gets BTFO
>m-muh torq

top kek

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>>15308184
>extra displacement to make up for being inferior

yeah thats not how it works

N/A cucks on suicide watch

>>15308393
>>15308397
>Lighter engine giving better car balance
>Accellerate everywhere instead of just at that tiny little 7-8k RPM range
>More reliable for having way fewer parts and being less stressed
>Cheaper to buy and own
>Better sounding
>Doesn't come witha cuck-tier bimmer built around it
Yeah you sure told me, boy am I glad I got some ointment for this burn, amirite?

>>15308374
well no
that comparaison just lack info
that new ford v8 is goat there is no denying it

>>15306082
They're not though, in certain aspects yes.

But the Mustang isn't better than the Camaro, just like the Corvette isn't better than the gt.


Either way Ford and GM suck dick and have been riding on fanboy popularity for too long, both need to just fuck off until they can make something that isn't 15 years late to the party.

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>>15308408
>Lighter engine giving better car balance
damn right it does

>>15308499
So you drive a dorito or a 3-pot now, huh?
Poor you.

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>>15308492

>>15308499
Not shown:
>Wankel: spare apex seals, oil tank, huge gas reserves, 300hp dyno sheet
>Nissan: turbo, intercooler, dissappointing torque curve, 400hp dyno curve

>LS: wet panties, useable torque curve, excellet reliability, 1000+hp dyno cuve when turbo'd

>>15308514
>comparing a 2009 chassis, 2006 engine and 2014 updates to a 2015 chassis with a 2016 engine
Apples, oranges. Comparing 2016 Mustang and Camaro would be a better idea.

>>15308499
>cuck engine
>cuck engine

>big manly stronk engine

I fail to see your point. American pushrods still a best. Praise Jesus

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>>15308523
>the new one would be a better idea
No, it wouldn't.

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>>15308516
>>15308512
>LS fangirls on LITERAL suicide watch
>yfw GM Pushrod garbage has NEVER EVER won LeMans

absolutely BTFO

>b-but muh torq, muh useable powerband

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>>15308524
>america
>not the epithome of cuckoldry

had a BLACK president for 12 years

>>15308526
this is such a fantastic meme

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>>15308534
>12 years

>>15308528
And neither of us have ever driven LeMans, so what's your point here? Neither has whatever garbage in your cuckbimmer, by the way. Are you going to keep saying "BTFO" like it means something out of your mouth? Or are you going to actually try and find at least one proper argument in favor of your turbo trash? Because you'd be hard pressed to.

File: Knipsel.jpg (71KB, 527x711px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 527x711px

>>15308526
Let's compare a base V8 2016 Mustang to a base V8 2016 Camaro then. Pic related.

File: 9c8.jpg (130KB, 499x499px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 499x499px

>>15308547
>talking about engines
>b-but facts d-don't count!!

>>15308559
Alright, start pointing out your first one, then.

>>15308555
if these things weren't so heavy maybe they'd be good

>>15308565

Don't they weigh around the same as an M3/M4?

>>15308555
>no! it's not fair
That camaro costs 48k fully loaded. lol

>>15308571
>>15308565
Both ponycars are around 1650kg.
M2 is 1570kg.
M4 is around 1650kg for a DCT equipped one, 1610 for a manual.

For reference:
C63 AMG is around 1710kg for the regular one, 1725 for the S.
B8 RS4 is around 1795kg.

>>15308596
Cheapest V8 Camaro (1SS): 37K
Nicely Optioned Camaro (2SS): 43K
Most expensive V8 Camaro: iirc I got it up to 56K, in full useless Boomer spec.

Cheapest V8 Mustang: 33K
Nicely optioned V8 Mustang (Premium trim): 37K
Tick all the boxes: 49K

All in all Mustang gets better options at 37K, but performance is better over at Chevy. Also, Camaro is offered with an excellent 8 speed auto instead of Ford's older 6 speed (although both will get a codeveloped 11 speed in the future).

>>15308665
They ditched the 10 speed?

>>15308159
Both ford and GMs OHC engines are shit.

File: 1465591919566.jpg (8KB, 255x220px) Image search: [Google]

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>>15308534
>12 years

>>15308184
Well, it depends on the amount of displacement the turbo has to make up for. I know the F80 M3s have smaller engines than the previous gen, but have more torque throughout the rpm range because they're turbocharged.

File: 13556454652521.png (275KB, 454x403px) Image search: [Google]

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>>15308534
>anime reaction image
ok
>8 years into 12 years
opinion dropped

File: 1457588430312.gif (2MB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 480x270px

>>15308559
>implying you stated facts

baka anon-san