>several hundred pounds lighter >455 HP V8 >0-60 in

Too bad you can't see fucking dick out of it. I got the chance to sit in one and thought I was riding in the loadmaster's position in the space shuttle.

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>Lol ameriquality

Model 3 is the only deserving car so far

>>14774540

I sat in one of these at the Chicago auto show, along with the new Mustang and current Challenger. The visibility sucks in all three.

>>14774540

> you can't see fucking dick out of it

You're either Asian or blind.

>>14774555
>implying that the model 3 will be produced in the next ten years

>>14774566
You're either a shill or haven't actually sat in it.

>>14774540
This is enraging. By far the biggest complaint of modern Camaros, yet Chevy just ignores the issue when redesigning.

>>14774555

I agree, but the Model 3 isn't even in production yet so it doesn't count

>>14774575
>shill

Fuck off back to >>>/v/

>>14774536
I do like it, but that $37k starting price is steep. Would probably opt for the Mustang just because of that.

>>14774536
>Slower than an M4 or M2

>Lighter(ish)
>Multi-link rear suspension
>9.5" rear wheel width

I'd like to know about the diff, but holy shit, they're making progress!

>>14774579
Fucking boomers they surveyed said the styling was more important than the visibility.

>>14774600
This. You could get a GT premium for the price of a 1SS.

>>14774536
BMW will also honor the warranty if you track your M3/M4

>decked out is only 45k

No the base model ZL1 is $55k no options

>Beats an M4

Again no, the ZL1 cannot beat an M3/M4
You must be talking about the Z/28 which is an $75,000 track car that doesn't even come with AC standard. Making it more expensive than an M3

>>14774617
Alright Davis

>>14774617
Id rather have a M4 even if it was slower at least its not ugly

>$40k less than an M4
>and faster than it

What the fuck in BMW doing?

>>14774617
The Z/28 was getting slightly better lap times than the M3/M4 because it used racing semislicks.

>>14774617

Friend, the 2016 SS Camaro is pretty much the performance equal of the M4 and costs at least $30k less. The gen 6 ZL1 hasn't even come out yet.

>$75k
>more expensive than an M3

BMW nickels and dimes you so much you're going to be spending way more than that to get a similarly equipped car. They've turned into Porsche.

>>14774625
not me
>>14774633
faster in your dreams, look up the lap times
and with a cheap tune you can get up to 500hp easily with the BMW which will eat any pony car.

>>14774635
Yes, also at the end of the day the M cars are much more comfortable to use as daily drivers. The Z/28 is just to much to use everyday.

>>14774655
>>14774635
>>14774601

Being rather defensive, aren't we?

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>>14774673
it`s ok

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>>14774677

>>14774654
I paid 75k for my M3 last last May, with all packages. They've gone up a little since then but not much.

>>14774655

>cheap tune
>$75k German luxury car
>trashing the warranty on a $75k German luxury car to beat those inferior American pony cars

LOL. If we're going to get into aftermarket then a few bolt-ons for the Camaro could get you to 500hp and eat any kraut mobile.

>>14774683
Camaro btfo

>>14774683

>comparing the paddle-shifter (faster) version of the M to the manual (slower) version Camaro

top cuck

>>14774686
Jesus Christ. Can I have $75k for a down payment on a house? Please, Sir?

>>14774688
there are tuners that don`t void warranty. Look up Alpina, AC Schnitzer, Dinan, G Power etc

>>14774686
desu I leased it but still....

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>paying more money for a slower car

Why do people do this?

>>14774702
Isn`t the Z28 the faster version though?
>bmw has 90hp less
>bmw costs 10k less
>bmw still performs better while keeping all the nice stuff like AC

>>14774719

DELETE THIS

>>14774719
I know this is bait

but some people like good cars and not shitboxes

BMW is a good car and a Camaro isnt

>>14774706
>there are tuners that don`t void warranty. Look up Alpina, AC Schnitzer, Dinan, G Power etc

>"i.i..if you spend $100k on a BMW you'll beat those inferior American pony cars"

>>14774705
I leased it lol. But still, my cars are worth just as much as much as my condo lol

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>>14774731

>fake engine noises

Wew lad

>>14774738
the most retarded thing to bitch about

literally complaining about nothing

>>14774731

>cloth seats
>no back-up camera
>no navigation

These are either standard on the 2SS or you can add them for $1500. Tell us how much it costs to add leather, navigation, and a sunroof to the M3/M4.

>>14774733
A remap/chip tune does not cost more than $3k.
For 100k you would get a 600-700+hp M4

>>14774743

If it's not a big deal, why did BMW spend the time and money to pipe in fake engine noises instead of just leaving it as is?

>>14774731
>BMW is a good car and a Camaro isnt
Stupid. I like BMW, but much of the cost can be attributed to fancy amenities and just having that badge. Doesn't mean that Camaro is a bad car. As the consumer, you just have to decide what you value in a car, and make a purchase that suits your needs.

>>14774755
because hearing engine noises enhances driving experience.
>>14774748
Navigation is standard and you can add leather for $900. And you don`t really need a back up camera when you have an extra feature like REAR VISIBILITY kek

>>14774748
Navigation is standard. Merino Leather is standard. Adding a moon-roof is free since it costs less than the carbon fiber roof.

>>14774748
Why would you want pleather seats, a back-up camera, or nav on any car ever?

Seriously? Why?

>>14774748
wat

M4 has standard leather
moonroof is a $0 option
Navigation is standard

for $750 you can have a 360 degree camera view

>>14774600
Still a lot of car for your money. Right now you can pick between Ford an Chevy when buying a new ponycar, just depending on your brand and styling preference. Neither will be a bad car.

>>14774617
A decked out SS is right around 59K, but you'd have to be a retard to order it that way.

6th gen ZL1 isn't even out yet, and given that the SS roughly equals the M's, a 6th gen ZL1 has good potential to ruin BMW's day, and remember, M4's are 66K starting, in complete stripper trim. The ZL1 will be roughly that pricepoint, but better equipped.

>>14774655
Aftermarket tuning would void the warranty on both cars though - and the Chevy would be cheaper to get fixed out of warranty. Besides, you could pay 70K for a tuned, warrantyless 500hp M4, or 70K for a 2017 ZL1 with warranty and 640 ponies.

Not to mention that the GM smallblock will respond better to tuning than the BMW straight six, and it will have a larger aftermarket. Already does.

>>14774677
>5th gen Camaro BTFO's BMW
>6th gen ZL1 or Z28 will eat it for breakfast

>>14774683
>comparing manual and DCT in acceleration tests
>expecting conclusive results
Pick one. Germans circlejerking again - deep down they know the sub-50K 6th Camaro SS is the better choice.

>>14774748
Oh and the package that includes the backup camera is $3500. plus these

• Head-up Display
• Retractable headlight washers
• Heated Steering Wheel
• Park Distance Control
• Rear view camera

>>14774776
You can't have the top and side cameras without the Executive package which includes the backup camera.

>>14774722
>BMW has more hp/kg
>BMW costs 10K less in it's home market
>6th gen is now cheaper than the BMW
>AC doesn't matter on a track day special
It was a skewed comparison, and in a fair comparison (2016 SS vs. M4), the BMW almost tied on laptimes and lost of driving feel. The 6th gen ZL1 will beat the M4 on the track.

>>14774731
BMW is only a good car for the first 5k miles. Have fun with the maintenance bill.

>>14774800
I have almost 53k miles on my bmw. no problems whatsoever.

>>14774753
You just find me a tuner that'll get your M4 to 500whp on a warranty for 3K. I'll be waiting.

>>14774770
>>14774776
Leather isn't standard, BMW just automatically adds it to an M4 when you configure it online. Go select the cloth seats, that'll return it to standard options, and it'll also lower the price.

>>14774755
nothing wrong with listening to your engine lad.
but everyone else don't need to hear it

Lol. People who can actually afford BMW's probably don't even look at what the different packages offer. They just walk into the dealership and say "Hmm. That looks nice. Yeah, gimme that one."

>>14774828
No, these are BMWs not Porches and Bentleys.

>>14774819
http://www.dinancars.com/product/d440-1644b-st2-dinantronics-performance-tuner-stage-2-for-bmw-f80-m3-f82-f83-m4/
The AC Schnitzer tune costs 4900$ and it gives you 510hp.
>>14774783
>Aftermarket tuning would void the warranty on both cars though
Nope.

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>>14774607
boomers are progressive people

>>14774837
Sure, but we're not exactly talking 3-series...

>>14774841
>what is hippies

>>14774828
do you honestly think that ''people who can afford bmws'' don`t look at different options or features so they just get the base model? lol

>>14774800
>have fun with the maintenance bill
You know maintenance is covered for like 4 years, right? And the warranty lasts 4 years/50,000 even on an M car.

And fuck me, they're actually pretty goddamn reliable cars.

>>14774866
>so they just get the base model
So you're just going to add things I didn't say? Alrighty then.

>>14774677
Seems like they're unhinging the Camaro, letting it be faster than the vette. Not like the cucked cayman.

If this has happened before, my bad, but it's cool to see ponies tracking at vette numbers.

>>14774867
>>14774800
Yeah I had a 240k mile e46 coupe. Sold it, met the current owner recently, he loves the car, still pulls like a champ. The car is nearing 260k miles now.

>>14774731
This post is something retards on here will never understand

>it has .05 of a second faster laptime on one track its the best lmao

>>14774866
The idea is that they don't hang out on 4chan, meticulously analyzing the value of each package. They're just gonna go with the one that looks nicest, because they're too busy actually making money and getting shit done. How does that imply "base model"?

>>14774867
>>14774800
My powertrain is covered up to 75k miles. Under the certified pre-owned elite program.

>>14774908
A brand new 5 series can look nice even as a base model.
I`m pretty sure every person buying a new car has their requirements for features and specs.

>>14774933
A base 5 series is like $50k or some shit. People who can comfortably afford that are going to be much more flexible in their finances. Thus, not spending much time deciding what options to get. Odds are, if they're set on a 5 series, they'll just gravitate to the highest trim.

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>>14774579

>Bothering taking opinions of people who won't/can't buy one anyways

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>"Several hundred pounds lighter"
>original car weighed two fucking tons

>>14774536
Is taking your car to a track a reason to lose your warranty in USA? Huh...

>>14774632
>at least its not ugly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>14774536
> Can't see out
> Can't corner
> No innovation
> Could lose several hundred pounds without losing any major parts

Still shit.

>>14776058
>Can't corner
>Beats M4 in figure 8's and G's

I guess the M4 then REALLY can't corner

>>14775986
for some companies. i know nissan and chevy caught shit for it.

>>14776117
Mitsubishi did it with the Evo's

>>14774607

>fucking boomers

I sat in one at the Dallas Auto Show. Some boomer in the passenger seat said it reminded him of a World War Two era pillbox. Can't see shit

>>14775986
Subaru voids them if you track a Wrx. Ford doesnt give 2 flying fucks if you do. And Gm it depends on the dealer. I worked for a chevy dealer that would do warranty drive train work to corvette that were track cars.

>>14774686
>$75k to be slower than a camaro

>>14774540
>can't see dick out of it
Manlet detected

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nope

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I love the new tailights!
Anyone know if the 6gen tail lights would fit onto a 2014?

>>14776082
>beats the m4 in figure 8's and G's
>still slower

>>14774540

Welcome to pretty much every new car today. Safety regulations mean raised belt-lines all around. Sitting in most new cars feels like sitting in a dumpster.

>>14774837
>implying porsche cost more than bmw's

>>14778488

100% positive they won't without heavy modification.

There were a handful of magazines that acheived 4.1 sec to 60 with the E46 M3. GPS verified.

>>14778477
>pay 35k more to be .10 seconds faster

>>14774633
Getting boned by EU regs for emissions.

>>14778691
> IT DOESNT COUNT!!
Try harder slow poorfag

>>14778691
>liking the slower car

it's like you want to be the cuck

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>2016 car of the year
>not a hellcat

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>>14778747
>>14778748
Keep in mind those lap times are set by professional drivers, something you guys aren't. In the real world, the Camaro is faster because it is easier to drive and get up to speed with and always wins 99% of the time in any situation. The BMW to accomplish that laptime nearly broke the car.

Also with custom interior color, wheels and upgrading the performance the Camaro is under 50k.

The Camaro will be driven by women.

The M4 will be driven by men.

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>>14778748
>making a car less than 1% faster in irrelevant conditions would get these idiots handing over 35k more

>>14774536
>still fat
>not that much for a fucking fatty tank
>lots of new cars are faster
>who cares
>still sucks, and there is way too much interior because the windows are so small
>this is even a feature?
>not a value as you need to buy two so you can cycle them between repair shops

>>14778799
>the Camaro is faster

citation needed

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>>14778870
>im mad the camaro is slower
>im also a cuck btw

what i read

stay asshurt

All of this shilling and comparing to BMWs, when somebody who is going to buy an M4 or even 435I will never consider a Camaro, doesn't matter how much faster it is going to be

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>>14778885
>anime reaction image

>>14778870
Or having a car that isn't ugly, won't instantly explode, and you can see out the back and sides of

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>>14778921
>nigger reaction image

>>14778799

I can't speak for modern M cars but my 15 yr old 01 M3 coupe has over 112k and still going strong. I have overhauled a bit but the only failures I've had were my fuel pump, one of the calipers and just recently my TPS. I checked and adjusted valves several times a season when I tracked her and many times every one of them were in spec.

I've had this car for 5 years now. The first three were track only. I never even carried registration on it nor paid tax to the state. There has to be at least 800 to 1k track miles. Lots of overrevving and this engine spins over 8k/m. I'd love to see long term reliability on a Chevy motor that's capable of revving like M cars.

I'm putting about 800 miles a week on mine and I have zero interest in a newer car doesn't matter if it's an M or an SS.

>>14774536
My mom just got a station wagon, MB E63, with better specs than that. Probably handles better too.

> 577hp V8
> 0-60 3.5s
> no vinyl and plastic shit in interior like chevy
> don't know about tracking, she bought it for hauling grandkids
> $110k

>>14779008
>my mom

>>14778925
>wont explode
Lmao, you have a 50/50 chance of the BMW literally killing itself after the first 3k miles.

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>>14778921
>camaro is slower than the m2 and m4

>>14779017
>implying the camaro is any less of a girl's car

>>14778799
Mustang GT Premium w/ Performance Package delivered to your dealership $42,000

$2,495 GT Performance Package includes:
• Strut-tower Brace
• Larger Radiator
• Unique Chassis Tuning
• Upsized Rear Sway Bar
• Heavy-Duty Front Springs
• K-Brace
• Brembo™ 6-Piston Front Brake Calipers with Larger Rotors
• 19 X 9-inch (F) 19” X9.5” (R)Ebony Black-Painted Aluminum Wheels (Summer Tires Only)
• Unique Stability Control, EPAS & ABS Tuning
• 3.73 TORSEN® Rear Axle
• Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Vacuum)
• Spoiler Delete

Camaro upgrades:
$1,695 Magnetic Ride Control
$3,175 Performance Brake Upgrade Kit - Brembo 6-Piston Front

All of my Keks

>>14779079
Is this supposed to mean the Mustang is better? Because it isn't.

>>14779093
More bang for your buck, you're paying more for one thing on the Camaro that you get for an entire package that costs less on the Mustang. Yes it is better.

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>>14774540
WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?!

>>14779112
You get better electronics and a better interior in the Camaro. Along with better performance and parts. I fail to see how the Mustang is more bang for your buck.

>>14779093
>>14779125
>the mustang is cheaper and just the same
>b-but being cheaper is just relevant if the car i like is the cheaper one

kek

camarocucks on suicide watch

>>14779125
GT Premium comes all leather interior which already looks better. Forgot to mention the $42,000 is with the leather Recaro option. If you choose to not get the Recaros you can take $1,500 off that. Honestly though $1,500 for brand new all leather Recaros is an awesome deal. Don't know which electronics you are referring to. I really don't see the better performance or parts you are talking about.

>>14774536

>only $45k

Why would you spend so much money on something slower than a Yamaha R1?

>>14779243
Some of us are straight

>>14779243
It is a proven fact that bike riders are gay and love sucking cock

>>14779079
>implying that an upgrade package with many options on one car means that it is overall better than another.
>camaro is already so based that any upgrades offered beyond what already is would actually be downgrades.

I think the jews got to you, friend.

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>>14779243
Maybe because they aren't a fucking homo?

Finally -- in their 107 year history -- GM is now comparable to a performance German automaker.

#'s are very marginal though. Gonna boil down to the better driver.

>>14774607
>blaming 60 and 70 year old senior citizens

>>14774677
Wtf you dumb fucking faggot, the m4 is literally twice the cost of an SS.


>HURR JUST GET A 918 ITS FASTER

>>14779508
You mean finally in your lifetime faggot.

>>14779540
fully triggered kek

>>14779079
>• Spoiler Delete

w-what? hopefully its replacing it with a functional wing

>>14779352

>camaro is already so based that any upgrades offered beyond what already is would actually be downgrades.
you are one dumb nigger, go back to /pol/ now

>>14779079
also
>magnetic ride control

something the mustang doesn't have..

>>14779573
Car looks better without the spoiler and its a good trade for the things you get in return.

>>14779581
Now owned by Beijing West. Enjoy your made in China garbage coils no one uses anymore except GM.

>>14779612
All cars use coils asshole.

>>14779256
>>14779319
>>14779365

But why would you want an overpriced, slow car?

>>14779705
I'll bet it's faster than R1. Sportbike riders always think acceleration makes them faster, not top speed.

>>14779705
I'm not buying a Mercedes

>>14774748
You're making it painfully obvious you've never even sat in a newer BMW. Even if none of those things were included in the M4, the build quality alone is miles ahead of what you get in literally any Chevy.

There's a reason why the Chevy is <$50K, and the BMW is nearly twice that, and believe it or not it's not just brand appeal.

>>14779786
They're brains don't function that way. Autistic people are linear thinkers. They can't discern the differences.

>>14778787
>pigfat
>dealer markup
Scat Pack is a way better deal.

>>14778850
Wierd, I've seen 6 M4's to date, and they were all that hideous green, and all driven by women.

>>14778747
>>14778748
A 10K price difference can more than make up for the 1% in performance.

>>14779786
>You're making it painfully obvious you've never even sat in a newer BMW.
What is the newest Camaro you have been in?

>>14779079
Half those ''upgrades'' are meaningless. The other half are probably equalled by the upcoming 1LE, which is the Camaro equivalent of the Performance Package.

>>14779612
Yet they're used on the GT350, but not offered on the regular Mustang.
Other companies using magneride include Ferrari, Acura, Audi and Range Rover. Not exactly brands that are known for using ''Chine garbage'' suspension.

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>>14779867
>still asshurt the BMWs are faster

go ahead, sperg some more

entertain me

>>14779935
>M4 GTS
>$134,000

>Comparing to the previous generation Camaro

Anon pls

>>14779943
>can't deal

>>14779964
If we're still comparing Camaros that cost half of a BMW with comparable performance (6th gen 2SS vs M4) then maybe we should wait for the new ZL1 to come out so we can compare it to the M4 GTS. Except the ZL1's base price is even less than half the GTS base price.

>>14779975
>tl;dr
>mad the BMWs are faster

>>14779935
>Z/28: 73K
>M4 GTS: 134K

>2% faster
>84% more expensive
>61K more expensive
You know what 61K gets you? A nice truck. A second hand ZR1 that'll spank the M4, even the GTS, around the ring. At Lingenfelter, it'll get you a 650whp blower, complete suspension rework, nitrous system, and you'd still have over 30K in your pocket. If you think that won't BTFO the BMW M4, you're delusional.

>>14779975
>>14779988
>muh laptimes per dollar
>every murikan claims to make muh 6 six figures

top kek. Buttmad poorfags exposed

>>14779988
see >>14779981

>>14779988

You can get a 1200 hp used skyline for 30k and you'd have even more left in your pocket, going by the same logic, why would anyone ever consider buying a Camaro, a BMW or a used ZR1?

>>14780003
so much this

camaro fangirls completly BTFO

>>14780008
Throttle response on a 1200hp single turbo RB26 would be a bitch, as would maintenance. We're talking new cars here.

>>14779981
>>14780003
>>14780006
>>14780015
>four posts
>zero arguments

>>14780021
if being poor isn't an argument for you I can't help you

>>14780016

Ok, figured there was a second hand ZR1 mentioned somewhere. But you see the point tho right? If it was only about "bang for your buck" there's a lot of other stuff on could get. It doesn't need to a 1200 hp ricer either, could be 800 or whatever, doubt maintenance costs would be more on one of those than on the others.

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>>14780016
supercharged LT engines can't do a single lap without overheating

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>>14780021
>100 extra hp
>still slower

>>14780021
>Z Slash 28 being 73 times more expensive than a corolla
>not 73 times faster

You can't make this shit up. What an overpriced piece of shit

>>14780049

Camaros got spanked by Minis on the tracks back in the days. Every car has its place though.

>>14780045
>what is added frontal area?

>>14780049
>what is weight?

>>14780067
>BMW is fat in one thread
>camaro has more power to balance it's weight and that's totally fine in the other thread

GM fanboys everyone

>>14774540
I'm 5'10" and can see out of it fine. Only issue I have with it is over the shoulder rear view space is tiny so shoulder checks would be problematic at highways speeds. Everything above 3 of the 6 trim levels come with blind spot monitoring though so it kind of solves the issue.

>>14774536
>several hundred pounds lighter
still pigfat

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>>14780109
Modern camaros are the fucking worse in terms of visibility like it's not even funny, I was just going to buy one till I test drove it, literally tunnel vision, almost crash with a fucking F-150, that's how bad it is.
Ended up buying a mustang though, way more space inside, way better interior and surprisingly enough, I can actually see outwards when I'm driving!

>>14778477
One quick look at the styling and you see where the price difference comes from. Murican savages and their oversized hotwheels :^D

>at a car meet with some bros
>some guy with a camaro with rallye stripes shows up
>cool guy I guess
>neckbeard comes out and tells me how dumb I am for buying my car
>tells everyone how much of car enthusiast he is for driving a manual
>picks out printed papers of some laptimes site
>lectures everyone about their laptimes per dollar ratio
>no one really cares
>babbels something and gets back into his camaro
>drives off and stalls a few times

6ft 4in tall
ZERO issues seeing out of the new 16 SS.

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>>14780131
I didn't find it that bad. Dad stood in my blind spot and it was still easy to see him. But you have you tilt your head way forward which is problematic at highway speeds.

I agree that the Mustang is the better vehicle all around though even though the Camaro has that glorious 450hp pushrod and the Alpha platform. The GT is also supposedly going to get a power output bump next year to push it past the Camaro SS. Mustang is a lot cheaper too.

Hoping to get a GT premium once it falls within the $25k used range.

>>14780160
>things that never happened

>>14780183
it happened several times. These people are everywhere.

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>>14780173
I just can't get over the infotainment system. I'm sure the seat are great but the infotainment system is just fuck ugly to me. To each there own.

as someone who usually doesn't like any modern muscle cars, i quite like this camaro, but as a european, just thinking about the insurance cost of a 7-liter v8 makes me want to kill myself.
not to mention that it's already more expensive to buy than an M2 out of the factory where i live, and i think we can all agree that it looks worse than the M2 as well..
BMW still wins for me, but amerilard engineering is making some impressive progress

>>14780187
Yea I bet. That's why nearly every single person I've talked to who has a European or Japanese car is obsessed with performance numbers and lap times. You mention any other car that isn't a BMW, Nissan or Audi and they flip shit.

>>14780198

just because all you know are people with 3rd or 4th owner BMWs doesn't mean they're all like that.

I guarantee you if you talk to the thousands of soccer moms who bought brand new BMWs in the SF Bay area, they'd probably think you're talking about running when you say "lap times"

>>14780198
>implying that people who buy camaros unironically aren't the biggest attention whores known to mankind

LOOK AT MY SPEC SHEETS AND DYNOS REEEEEEE

>>14775665
10/10 for lie to me*

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>>14780232
As someone who lives in the south, there is quite a large car culture of all kinds here.

Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers all have there own meets because they know where they belong in the performance line. Only at casual car meets do they come in and chill. My best friend owns an 2014 Camaro SS and never talks about his car, in fact the only time he talks about it is whenever I talk about it.

>>14780267
No one asked you about that stuff. Fucking attention whores

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>>14780313
>calls camaro owners attention whores
>tell them where im from they aren't
>n-n-noone asked you!!!

>>14780322
>sees his possibility to tell a tale about his friends and where he lives
>does it

madman