Do you actually have to let your car warm up if you want it to

>>14455598
just let it warm up to normal operating temp and go

>>14455613
Not op, but with my 2015 VW Polo coming to operating temp in idle, takes like 15min at least.

>>14455598
This is why engine block heaters are a thing in cold places

>>14455598
Read the manual

in really cold places you should use an engine block heater, but in general, idling is fucking horrible for the engine. you should give the engine 30s-1min to get some of the fluids just warmed up, and then drive it very conservatively until the needle on the temp gauge moves.

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>>14455598
No, you're supposed to drive like a grandma until it warms up. Then you can get hektik.

Currently I turn on my car, let it heat up(which takes ages) while I'm removing the snow and ice from the car(which also takes ages)

I used to have a engine block heater when I lived with my parents but my new place doesn't have any ways to connect it to electricity.

I recently ordered a new car which will have a in-built gasoline heater or whatever the English word for it is

>>14455789
>idling is horrible for an engine
This is a meme now?

>>14456032
its not a meme. its the truth

look at your service manual. it says shit like dont idle your car for too long, or that prolonged idling makes your oil changes more frequent.

>>14456055
My manual says no such thing.

Next time buy a car with proper channels and a oil pump.

No more than a minute, then drive easy for the first few minutes.

There is a reason some sports cars limit the amount of power available until the engine is warmed up.

>>14456059

Doesn't know wtf he is talking about.

>>14456078
>>14456055
>>14455789
Just stop. Go back to what ever cancerous containment board you flocked from.

>>14456086
Not that anon
But he's right you know

>>14456086
If you would just fucking Google it you'd know you're wrong, stupid ass.

>>14456119
Not that anon, but you are idiots and wrong, you know.

>>14456124
I'm neither of you guys, but one of you is right.
Don't know who.

>>14456120
>google it
Google supports my answer that you are a dumb fuck, idling does not hurt the engine. Tell your boomer father he is a dumb fuck.

I feel like all these people who live by the "idiling your car is horrible" meme don't live somewhere where it gets below 20 degrees. Excessive idiling is useless, yes, but most people only idle their car for 5-10 minutes when its cold enough.

No, its not just to let the engine warm up. Perhaps you should consider when its cold out people don't want to go in a cold car. Or is that too hard to understand? Apparently so, because we're still having these debates

>>14455598
> windows frozen, no spray
Let it idle and blow until I see the world properly (safety, man).
> nothing frozen, any temp below 0 but I go right into the freeway
Idle for up to a minute so the engine is all oiled before I hit the accelerator merging into traffic.
> nothing frozen, any temp, can go slower
Start the engine, do the belts, go right away, accelerate slowly and keep revs below 3Krpm for until the coolant gauge reaches at least 50-60C.

I live in minnesota and in the winter I just drive at low rpms until it heats up. can't be bothered to wait for the car to heat up before setting off. it has worked for 200k miles so

>>14456164
>"idiling your car is horrible" meme
What if the truth is called meme now? Maybe it's not horrible, but why waste the engine and gas when it's not needed? Better spare those money and install a proper Webasto/DEFA setup bro. Unless you can't see, 5 minutes is excessive, buy a pair of gloves, go circles inside a parking and even then the engine gets warmer in shorter time.

>start car from inside house
>wait for it to be nice and toasty in the car
>come out, wipe snow from windows, drive off

>>14456201
>waste the engine and gas
It's a proven fact you burn more gas starting up the engine than just sitting at idle at a light.

the amount of "wear" you are putting on an idling engine is not enough to even be warranted.

I idle until the temp meter moves then take it easy

my Chevy will run forever

At that temperature I'd be using a heater on the engine and a 5w20 or even 0w20 oil. My car takes forever to warm up (even while driving around) when it's below 40F/~4.5C with 10w30 but those temps are only around for maybe one or two months of the year.

>>14456216
>It's a proven fact you burn more gas starting up the engine than just sitting at idle at a light.
Then you'll source that fact.

>>14456274
its more wear on the starter too dumbo

common sense dictates

>>14455598
5 minutes max, just for the interior to be not all fogged up. low rpms warms it up faster. i'll idle longer when cleaning ice or other winter shit off cause fuck fighting ice.

>>14455598
Warmth for you is important mainly because of expansion of parts you don't want to just get in and boot it just sit in it for 5 min to allow heat build up BUT the main reason you let it sit is to build up oil pressure and that can take anywhere from 30 sec to a minute

>>14456216

Fucking what? Idle speed is the most damaging speed to leave an engine. Even something large and heavy duty like a 3516 will idle for one day before it is damaged to the point of rebuild. Long idle periods damage the engine without discrimination on brand or engine type. At least a diesel will start slobbering before the bore washes down and you get some warning of the damage.

Quick google trip for you champion.

>>14456032
The longer the engine spends cold, the worse it is for it. Putting a load on the engine by moving will warm it up faster. Just don't get too high into thr rpm range.

>>14456316
>Just don't get too high into thr rpm range.
And don't mean load by all them torks it can provide. :^)
Btw. Once I had to put full load on a totally cold (like -10C) engine. It barely went in first gear.

>>14456280
Well, you're wrong. Start-stop systems exist.

>>14456315
>engine can't survive a day not moving
Shit engine mate.

>>14456316
That's how you kill the engine. I take it you are one of those people who start up an engine and push it to redline for 30 seconds before taking off.

>>14455598
With modern engines, not really. Regular driving warms the engine properly, so just don't accelerate hard until it's up to temperature.
In winters here that go to -10 at absolute worst, I just 'warm' the car up while I scrape the ice off the windows; idling it with the heated windscreens running and the heater warming up. Works fine.

If it's -20 outside, then you need an engine block heater or you risk it not starting.

If it's +20 outside, it's a normal fucking summer's day, just fucking go.

>>14456407
>redline for 30 seconds before taking off
If only you read the whole post, there's:
>>14456316
>Just don't get too high into thr rpm range.
and I'm not even that anon.
>>14456434
>heated windscreens
Nice feature.

>>14456459
So you are one of those idiots that don't understand oil starvation.

Enjoy killing your engine faster.

>>14456465
So you are one of those idiots who just know everything.
Enjoy no friends.

I may or may not know whatcha talking about, can't translate it properly now. I've added >>14456355
>And don't mean load by all them torks it can provide. :^)
to those anon post, btw.

>>14455598
>Do you actually have to let your car warm up if you want it to last for a long time?

No, in fact with any modern engine it's bad practice to idle cold for an extended period of time. Start the engine, give it a few seconds for the oil pressure to come up, and then drive at a reasonable rate.

Putting the engine under load is the best way to warm it up.

>>14456493
The fact that you think idling your engine harms it means you take advice from your boomer parents.

>>14456506
Or owner's manuals

>>14456499
No it doesn't, can we stop this meme. Sitting at idle speeds is less harmful than driving speeds.

Sitting at idle is more harmful then having the engine off, yes. because that's normal wear.

But having your engine idle is not going to kill it....

>>14456516
>being this wrong

Get a load of this memer.

>>14456515
>>Or owner's manuals
No owners manual says this, Go grab yours, post every single page of it.

And don't you dare tell me no, you are the one saying the manual covers this. You are the one who has to provide the evidence in this case.

>>14456516
>No it doesn't, can we stop this meme.
But it isn't.

>>14456521
>>14456524
>being this much of a trolling faggot try hard

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>>14456523
>No owners manual says this

>2 degrees F outside
>idle car for 10 minutes
>temp gauge doesn't even fucking move

Idling a cold engine does literally nothing except wear your piston rings faster.

>>14456571
That doesn't say it's bad, that says you should service your oil, oil filter if you have long periods of idle.

you fucking moron.

>>14456506
If I'd do so, I would say 15W40 oil is better than 10W40.

Engine gets warm faster even if I drive in a parking lot on a second gear @1.3Krpm than when I idle it. Rpm while idling aren't constant. They change (but not bounce) a bit so there is uneven tork pushing the moving parts in, kinda, rattle. I don't know whether you get what I'm thinking, I can't describe it better.
Enjoy doing whatever to your engine while I enjoy doing what I'm doing to mine >>14456165.

>>14456516
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/06/this-is-why-people-still-think-they-should-idle-their-cars-in-winter/
>If it's bitterly cold out, like 10 or 20 degrees Fahrenheit or lower, you can let it warm up for a minute or two to allow the oil to thin out a bit and circulate completely. But other than that, if it runs, driving it gently is the best way to warm it up.”

http://www.idlefreevt.org/how-long-should-a-vehicle-idle.html
>Prolonged idling causes engine wear. According to Oak Ridge National Laboratory Operations Best Practices Guide: Idle Reduction, "Excessive idling can create engine wear and carbon soot buildup in the engine and components" and "Excessive idling can affect the life of engine oil". It also shortens the life of spark plugs and exhaust system. Many auto manufacturers owner's manuals advise limiting warm-up idling, such as 2013 BMW 3 Series, 2015 Ford F-250 Power Stroke diesel, 2015 Ram 1500-2500-3500, and all 2015 Nissans

>>14456597
>shortens the life
So idling for 5 hours a day for 10 years cut the life of your engine by 1 day.

WOW, it's nothing.

>>14456605
>getting this BTFO

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>>14456605
No, engine idling causes wear. The estimate under normal conditions is that one hour of idling is equivalent to driving 33 miles. This is worse at lower temperatures.

This is why cop cars have an idle hours counter in the instrument cluster, because they leave their patrol car powered on all the time so all their computer shit, radar, etc. remains on. You have to add the wear of thousands of hours of engine idling in to determine what the car is really worth and how much wear has put on it.

>>14456625
mileage doesn't mean breaking, It means keeping up with servicing.

>1 hour = 33 miles
So driving 33 miles in 6th gear puts you at the same fucking rpm range you jackass.

Your point is moot, leaving the car in idle does no more damage than driving it.

>>14455598
Get in, drive casually

Thats it.

>>14456637
...except you end up driving the same distance anyways after idling, Modern car computers accomodate for cold weather starts, assuming you aren't revving the engine to redline before everything is heated up. At temperatures below 0 degrees, for instance, the engine may not heat up on its own at idle. This has been researched and documented.

Cars heat up much, much faster when actually driving. I've lived in climates where the average temperature in the morning is around -17F (about -17C) and you can remote start your car a half hour before getting into it, the cabin still won't have warm air and the temperature needle will still be on C.

>>14456201
>but why waste the engine

I'm sorry, what?

>and gas when its not needed?

Maybe because I'm not going to drive to work in the morning shivering for half the drive. I live off a main road, I don't have time to literally drive in fucking circles because an armchair mechanic on the internet told me its better for my car.

Let me ask you this. If idling to warm up the car was so bad for the engine like you say, why do so many manufacturers equip remote start from the factory? Surley the engineers know running an engine for two minutes in the cold is blasphemy?

>>14456652
That isn't what was being discussed is it. You all said running the engine at idle causes more wear than driving.

When that is factually wrong.

>>14456637
You've lost this argument. Go home and reflect on your idiocy.

>>14456672
>provides nothing to the argument
>you lost
k

>>14456665
... it does.It's fucking well documented, a million mechanics have talked about it.

http://www.thesilverlining.com/westbendcares/blog/bid/170167/Are-there-any-benefits-to-warming-up-my-car-on-a-cold-day
>Myth – Idling my engine can reduce engine wear.
>Fact – Idling for long periods of time can potentially damage your engine and its components, including the cylinders, spark plugs, and exhaust systems.
>With today’s modern cars, electronic fuel injection regulates how much fuel your engine needs to run efficiently. When your car engine is cold, the fuel injectors send more fuel through the system. As the engine warms, it needs less fuel to run efficiently. So the longer you let a cold engine idle, the more fuel you waste and the more you increase the chance of fuel residue build up. Fuel residue build up can lead to poor engine performance and a reduction in mileage.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a19086/warming-up-your-car-in-the-cold-just-harms-engine/
>Warming Up Your Car in the Cold Just Harms the Engine
>The long-held notion that you should let your car idle in the cold is only true for carbureted engines.
[...]
>In the thick of winter, the common wisdom is that when you are gearing up to take your truck out in the cold and snow, you should step outside, start up your engine, and let it idle to warm up. But contrary to popular belief, this does not prolong the life of your engine; in fact, it decreases it by stripping oil away from the engine's cylinders and pistons.

By driving the car sooner, you make it get to a higher operating temperature more quickly, which reduces this problem, which reduces engine wear.

>>14456680
>idling your engine does the exact same thing as driving it
WOW, it's nothing!

>>14456201
>driving around in circles for ten minutes is easier on your car than it idling for ten minutes
Jesus Christ how do you figure?

Driving around in circles could get the suspension warmed up a bit I suppose, and avoid something shattering if I idled my truck until it was warm and immediately drove it off an 18" curb or something vs stretching it out a bit first.

>>14456688
That's the exact opposite of what the second article says, and it explains why in detail. You seriously lack reading comprehension, anon.

>>14456201

>Unless you can't see, 5 minutes is excessive, buy a pair of gloves, go circles inside a parking and even then the engine gets warmer in shorter time.

>5 minutes is excessive
[Citation needed]

Engines have tight tolerances. Going from very cold to hot causes excessive wear. Wouldn't you agree? That's why it's frowned upon to rev your engine high immediately following start.

So, wouldn't it make sense to let an engine warm up a little before driving it, compared to driving in circles to warm up faster? Surely a gradual change from cold to hot will minimize the risk of excessive wear instead of choosing to warm up as fast as possible?

>>14456695
It explains nothing.

It literally says, "if you get from point a to point b, you are saving a bit of life"

That is it.

>driving at 800 rpm
>idling at 800 rpm
both provide the exact same amount of wear.

>>14456706
>The life of components like piston rings and cylinder liners can be significantly reduced by gasoline washing away the lubricating oil, not to mention the extra fuel that is used while the engine runs rich. Driving your car is the fastest way to warm the engine up to 40 degrees so it switches back to a normal fuel to air ratio. Even though warm air generated by the radiator will flow into the cabin after a few minutes, idling does surprisingly little to warm the actual engine. The best thing to do is start the car, take a minute to knock the ice off your windows, and get going.

By driving it sooner, you warm up the engine more quickly so the fuel mixture does not need to be as rich, which is what strips oil away from components, which is what puts more air on the engine. When you idle, you take a much, much longer time to do this, so much more fuel runs rich throughout the engine vs. getting in and driving it.

>>14456689
>driving around in circles could get the suspension warmed up I suppose
>get the suspension warmed up
>suspension warmed up

Wow. Just wow. Where did you learn that?

>>14456688
Can you stop moving the goal posts, you've been btfo already just close the thread and reflect on your lack of information. Seriously i've never seen someone so dense and ass hurt about having the wrong information.

>>14456714
>while the engine runs rich
You have a shit car m8.

Seriously what did they do? run these tests on cars from 1952?

>>14456680
Not the person you're replying to but...
I've had my Porsche 996 (the most unreliable one with the m96 engine) for the past 15 years. Every day I've warmed it up by letting it idle for 20-25 minutes each morning. It has more than 100,000 miles on the clock now and I've never required a rebuild or had any issues.

>>14456721
The opposite. Cars with carburetors have a set fuel mixture, so if you don't warm up the car long enough, it stalls - so there's no avoiding the problem of needing to idle when it's cold out.

Computers in cars for the past thirty years have taken care of the part where the fuel mixture runs richer to try to get the engine warm, so when you drive it, it won't stall if the engine is cold. However, this has the side impact of causing more wear if you do extended idling at low temperatures.

This is a popular mechanics article from 2016, by the way.

>>14456743
>Hurr I just proved myself wrong
you literally just said idling is better for new cars.

>>14456742
>My experience reflects everyone's reality
I get what you mean anon, but not all engines are built the same or even have remotely the same quality

>>14456718
Physics class

>>14456742
Anecdotes are anecdotes, not all wear causes immediate failures.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-idling-your-car-in-the-morning-is-doing-to-your-engine-and-its-not-good-2016-1
>We spoke with former drag racer Stephen Ciatti — who has a PhD in mechanicsl engineering from the University of Wisconsin-Madison — about the pervasive myth that you need to warm up your car in the winter.
>For the last 26 years, Ciatti has worked on combustion engines — engines that generate power from burning fuel, like gasoline — and currently oversees all of the combustion engine work at Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois.
>To get straight to the point, Ciatti said that idling your car in the cold not only wastes fuel, but it's also stripping oil from critical components that help your engine run, namely the cylinders and pistons.

Let's recap. A guy who is:
>A former racer
>Has a PHd in Mechanical engineering
>Has built engines for two and a half decades
tells you that it's worse for the engine than just driving it.

>>14456754
You still lack reading comprehension anon. I never stated that.

>>14456657
>I'm sorry, what?
I replied another Anon in >>14456591.
>>14456657
>I don't have time to literally drive in fucking circles
That's the silly example, but if you have to merge into fast traffic, then yeah, it's better to idle it a little bit.
>>14456657
>why do so many
There is a buyer for it where you live. Not in here, even if we have up to -2xC winters.
>>14456699
I'd still say it's better for it to operate in proper temp.

>>14456758
Then why use an example created from a shitty engine to dictate others?

hmmmmm?

>>14456764
Stop responding to him, some people will never mature or even have any intellectual growth. He's an asshurt cry baby who moves goalposts. No amount of proof will satisfy him, so don't waste your time replying.

>>14456120
How does idling hurt the engine?

>>14456764
>it's worse than driving it
No, he says it strips oil.

So does driving the car, It's a silly thing to say. When you are at driving temps you are also stripping oil away from the piston rings and walls. It's what engines do you dumb nigger. yes you are a nigger, for being so damn uneducated and just using google searches to get all your answers.

>>14456791
To these faggots
>because it wastes fuel and strips oil from the engine

Except, driving at operating temps, and casual rpm range also strips oil from the exact same components. it's why there are inlets built in to the walls to provide the oil to those locations.

Because normal operation causes wear. They just don't get that. So their only real argument is that idling wastes gas. when honestly, who gives a fuck.

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1MB, 266x268px

>>14456742
>>14456742
> Every day I've warmed it up by letting it idle for 20-25 minutes each morning

>>14456782
Please tell me you're not serious.
All i'm saying is that not all engines are the same, and have varying build quality, some come out better than others regardless of who makes them.

Again
>Your experience doesn't reflect reality.

>>14456794
He explains this. Same article:
>But when it's cold outside, gasoline is less likely to evaporate. Your car compensates for this initially by adding more gasoline to the air-vapor mixture — what Ciatti calls running "rich" — and that's where the problem begins.
>"That's a problem because you're actually putting extra fuel into the combustion chamber to make it burn and some of it can get onto the cylinder walls," Ciatti said. "Gasoline is an outstanding solvent and it can actually wash oil off the walls if you run it in those cold idle conditions for an extended period of time."
>Over time, that washing action can "have a detrimental effect on the lubrication and life of things like piston rings and cylinder liners," which are critical to running the cylinders and pistons that breathe life into your engine, Ciatti said.

>"Idling isn't really getting the engine up to temperature, and until that happens the little brain box on the engine is going to keep sending rich-fuel mixture to the cylinders so that it can ensure that enough is evaporated for a consistent combustion event."
Since straight up driving heats up the car faster, it reduces the richness of the fuel flow, which reduces leaking to the cylinder walls, which reduces the amount of oil that is washed off the walls, which reduces engine wear vs. extended idling at cold temperatures.

>>14456813
>All i'm saying is that not all engines are the same, and have varying build quality, some come out better than others regardless of who makes them.

Yes actually you are. By saying one shitty engine fucks up at idle and using it to say idling is bad. you are in fact doing just that.

>>14456791
>>14456807
Why don't you google instead of perpetuating bro science and your opinions? Instead of insinuating that others are wrong, why don't you provide evidence that claims the opposite?

>pro tip: you can't.

>>14456818
>when it's cold outside
goal post. We going to start talking about how operating your engine at high elevations kills the engine at all operating temps?

>>14456830
Nobody moved the goal post. OP asked about how long a car should warm up, in the context of that, extended idling was brought up.

You're retarded, or a troll. If the latter, good job wasting so much of my time. If you're the former, god help you.

>>14456699
>Engines have tight tolerances. Going from very cold to hot causes excessive wear. Wouldn't you agree? That's why it's frowned upon to rev your engine high immediately following start.

No, you are not supposed to rev your engine to high RPM because the tight fit between the piston and cylinder causes stress on the connecting rods. The goal is to reach the designed operating temp quickly without reaching high RPMs, and the best way to do that is to just drive casually.

The sort of thermal stresses you are talking about are not a significant issue when considering several minutes of normal driving.

it was -7F here today. I got in my car it took longer than ever before to start up.
It held at 2k RPM for 30 seconds and started moving down towards 1.1k RPM.

Usually it only goes up to 1.5k and down to 1.1
In the summer its starts and goes to .6k. That is normal idle once the car is warmed up. It took about half an our to get the car "warmed up" without the light and it held at about .8k rpm.

You shouldn't drive it in the first 30 seconds after that just don't go drag racing.

>>14456824
>Yes actually you are. By saying one shitty engine fucks up at idle and using it to say idling is bad. you are in fact doing just that.

Anon I never said that, what I was saying is not apart of the general discussion of the thread. All I was saying is that you can't set your example as objective fact.

Again, I'm sorry if you got the wrong idea, but i'm not arguing for either side.

>>14456818
That statement doesn't really make a lot of sense.

The engine runs rich because cold air is denser, so the ECU has to compensate for the this by injecting more fuel per combustion cycle. the fuck is he talking about with "evaporation" anyway? I can't wrap my head around what this cunt is trying to say.

>>14455748
Man, my 05 Subaru station wagon gets there in maybe 90 seconds

>>14456865
Cold air being denser and requiring more fuel is different from the fuel being closer to its freezing point and slightly closer to jelly which means that you need to inject more fuel to have combustion because its less likely to light on fire.

For you guys that like wasting time and money warming up your car for way too long you should look into one of those machines that heats and circulates the engine oil, trans oil, and coolant before you start up, normally used for really expensive/irreplaceable engines (like a 250 GTO) for their first start after a rebuild but I'm sure they would extend the life of your Hyundai by a few hundred miles too

>>14456897
Just use a block heater.

>>14456791
Idle speed is right on the limit of the engine's designed RPM range, so the fuel mix, combustion efficiency, and air flow are all sub-optimal. For an engine that is already warm, this can lead to carbon deposits, fouling of the spark plugs, excessive load on the catalytic converter, etc. for long periods of idling. These issues are well-known to police departments around the world, and other organizations with vehicles that spend a lot of time idling.

For a cold engine it's even worse, because it's even further out of the design conditions. Additionally, cold oil tends not to flow as well, so now your engine is running with very tight tolerances between the pistons and cylinders, and it's getting less oil than normal.

The best course of action is to give the engine a few seconds to start circulating oil (no more than ~30 seconds), then start driving in a reserved manner.

>>14456897
It wouldn't surprise me if every 250GTO is in a heated garage 24/7 anyway

>>14456307
This.

There should be no difference between letting it idle for a minute then driving conservatively for another 5 minutes, and letting it idle for 6 minutes. Other than your gearbox won't be warmed up as much and you'll be 5 minutes further away.

Having said that, lots of new cars don't come with block heaters since they seem to start better in cold than they used to. I'd be interested to see what a manufacturer actually says is the best warm up procedure.

>>14457031
>There should be no difference between letting it idle for a minute then driving conservatively for another 5 minutes, and letting it idle for 6 minutes.

Except there is a significant difference.

I've heard idling a car for too long is bad.

So what's worse, driving it cold or idling for 20 minutes?

>>14457099
idling for 20 minutes

>>14457099
the latter, by far

>>14457099
I've always reckoned idling it for 20 min only heats up the engine, and not the transmission.

So people who do that shit and start driving their car like it's "warmed up" usually trash something related in that general area.

Not sure though, might be something completely different. Not a mechanic.

>>14457049
>I know everything and therefore can contradict points using no proof or concepts whatsoever.

Both cars run cold for roughly the same number of cycles. 5 cold minutes at 2200rpm is logically equivalent to 10 cold minutes at 1100rpm. Both run rich during that time, etc.

My argument is that the faster change in temperature and extra load on the parts of driving it instead of idling it are negligible. Heat stress isn't happening quick enough and as long as you're gentle until it's warm the extra load shouldn't be much.

But you do need SOME warm up period, longer than in the summer, to get the oil up to pressure and flowing a bit.

>>14455598
The only reason I let mine idle for just a few minutes (2-5, 5 if i have to remove snow) is because my trying to shift my transmission is like mixing concrete and it'll sometimes grind the syncros if I'm not super careful when its cold.

>>14455789
You're correct my friend.
These people are idiots. >>14456086 >>14456032

i let my wrx idle until the temp gauge begins to move before i go anywhere, whether it be 80* out or -20*.

but i use a block heater when it gets below 0

>>14457310
Oh really, so what is so bad about idling? Is it that it does the same amount of wear on a driven engine?

Get a life faggot, no one believes your bullshit, especially with over 100 years of people doing it and not causing a problem.

>>14456977
Hopefully not heated to oil operating temps, would be one toasty garage

>>14456201

>waste engine and gas

Dude you do know that the engine spends so little fuel idling, it would take it days to empty an entire tank?

>>14457434
No, him and all the others seem to believe you can empty an entire tank of fuel in about an hours worth of ideling, burning everything inside the engine and causing a nuclear explosion.

>>14456201

>It's bad for the engine to work

Dude just take the bus if you are thinking that way

>>14457459
>>14457322
point is it's the least effective way to heat up your engine

>>14456571

You just proven yourself wrong, because not warming up the engine before driving it, is classified as more damaging to the engine than idling it.
Not to mention it says excessive idling i.e. they are thinking about idling it for several hours a day, a 10min idle period to warm the engine up does absolutely nothing to the engine.

>>14457322

Settle down children. Insults only make you look stupid.

Idling an engine causes a number of problems. The main issue is that combustion temperature remains low enough that solid particulates and liquid unburnt fuel mix together and seep past the piston rings in a phenomenon called Bore Wash-down. This damages the surface of the bore, the piston's ability to seal against the bore surface and allows the liquid fuel to carry the solid particulates into the lubricating system.

Further, the lower combustion chamber and piston crown temperature result in a higher than required clearance between the piston and the ring, and the ring and the bore surface. When the ring is allowed to leave the surface of the bore and mate again under movement the surface of the bore is mechanically damaged.

The low combustion chamber temperature provides another problem in the form of unburnt hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream being re-ingested by the engine through Exhaust Gas Recirculation. The mix of soot and gum from the exhaust mixes with the crankcase vapours from the crankcase breather and forms a sticky tar in the intake tract aft of the breather. This buildup will form on the surface of the tract and the surface of the intake valve, compromising the seal between the valve and the valve seat.

The next issue long term idling poses is that oil temperature will not come to a point where the moisture in the crankcase is effectively removed, yet remains in a running condition where condensation is most likely to form in the crankcase.

The final issue is regarding the high clearance between the main bearing and the crankshaft. At the lower idle temperature the crankshaft lacks the hydrodynamic oil film that supports it. This allows the crankshaft to contact the white metal of the crankshaft bearing under idle speed, which usually has the most NVH and the greatest chance to 'bounce' the crankshaft surface off the crankshaft bearing.

>>14456407

3516 is not a shit engine. Chances are your power has been supplied by one of them at least once.

Plenty of damaged construction and earthworking equipment from idle run-on. I distinctly remember one Cat D11 in Timor where the operator died while using the machine. The machine idled for close to 48 hours. The powerplant was destroyed as all bores were washed down and scuffed and the engine had made almost two litres of oil (it's fuel, making oil is never a good phrase.)

>>14457514
this post is 70% speculation

File: slobber_trap_8v71.jpg (58KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 640x480px

>>14457515

Slobber was mentioned above in another post.

Here's a photo of a slobber trap in the exhaust bellow of a Detroit 8V71 that did not have significant load placed on it. Yes. it was at high idle which will be somewhere between 900-1200 rpm. But without load to leave idle condition slobber builds up in the exhaust manifold and runs down the bore into the combustion chamber.

>>14457514
>a 10min idle period to warm the engine up does absolutely nothing to the engine.

except for all that wear on the rings, spark plugs, and cat...

>>14455757
This /thread
Mine says to just warm it above the C(usually a minute)

>>14457285
>5 cold minutes at 2200rpm is logically equivalent to 10 cold minutes at 1100rpm.

The engine running at twice the RPM with load on it will heat up way more than twice as fast as an engine that merely idles, so you put fewer revolutions on the engine while it's cold.

>>14457625
you must have a tiny engine. mine takes several minutes of normal driving before the needle even starts to move.

>>14457630
>with load on it

But is it better to have low load and warm up slower or have a higher load and risk wearing parts? Where is the butter zone for this? I think we're in agreement that wringing out the engine while it's cold is bad, but at what load does it stop being good for it compared to idling?

Most new cars are programmed to rev higher when they're very cold, so I assume this means the manufacturer approves of using revs to heat the engine faster to an extent. Hence causal, low load driving seems to be the best for it.

>>14457690

The general rule for high speed diesel is less than 35% of maximum load is a danger area for the problems mentioned above. With the difference in combustion temperature I would think it will be significantly lower with petrol powerplants, possibly around the 20% of maximum rated load.

It is far better to gradually increase the load until the engine is at operating temperature. Once it is at operating temperature, increase the load to rated. For a car that means the best warmup you could give the engine would be to drive at legal speed and keep off the power until it is hot. Don't bury the pedal into the carpet until it is at operating temp.

For a turbocharged or supercharged powerplant a good assumption is to keep it out of boost until you are at least within a few degrees of operating temperature.

>17c today
>start up Jeep
>click in seatbelt
>dick around with the cd player
>wait about a minute to some tunes
>engage gear and gently drive till needle starts to move
>full temp = hektik skids mode engaged

Yup. Idling is a waste of time, money and your motors longevity.

>>14457922
-17c wtf

>idling until operating temp
LOL enjoy taking hundreds of miles off of your engine every single week

>>14456571
Dude, are you seriously this fucking dumb?

>>14456571
>grater