Can anyone settle this AWD vs RWD vs FWD debate with actual credible

who cares

it's 90% memeing

>>14168736
Apparently most of /o/

>>14168732
Only autists and jalopnik readers argue about it
It started with ironic shitposting but then newfags took it as fact

>>14168747
So which is truly better for your car

AWD, RWD, and FWD all offer different driving characteristics. Which one is most desirable can be determined by driving cars with all of the configurations. The one you find provides the driving characteristics you find most enjoyable and practical for your needs is the most desirable. If you like FWD the most, buy FWD. If you like RWD the most, buy RWD. If you like AWD the most, buy AWD.

Whatever your car has is the best.

Most of /o/ couldn't drive an orange to its limits so it doesn't even matter.

>>14168732
>AWD
Training wheels
>RWD
Ultimate feel for the car itself
>FWD
I can't really afford anything else

QTDDTOT?

How do people do all those epic skidz in FWD cars?

Is it the handbrake? Isn't that bad for your brakes?

FWD: cheapest to engineer, inferior performance
AWD: least efficient, most expensive. Better grip in poor conditions and superior for narrow course motorsport (rallying)
RWD: medium efficiency/cost, superior for performance on conventional wide circuits, drag racing, and ripping hektik skidz

>>14168764
Source?

>>14168768
>Is it the handbrake?
yes, and Scandinavian flicking
>Isn't that bad for your brakes?
nah

>>14168756
Ff is only good for cheap econobox for unenthusiast

>>14168770
Why is rwd better? Why even make sport oriented FWD cars like the type r if that's the case

FWD: efficient, cheap
AWD: inefficient, high performance in poor conditions
RWD: most fun, high performance in ideal conditions

>>14168785
>Why even make sport oriented FWD cars like the type r if that's the case
Honda being cheap.

>>14168771
I went to Lincoln tech

>>14168785
Because jalopnik said so and the only ff experience these people have are stock cars or their mom's sedan they drove while saving for a miata

>>14168787
Integra, typeR

>>14168790
Yeah I'm sure the rnd and the entire prelude and type r lines would be way more expensive if rwd

Nissan chooses FWD LMP1 car. Gets smashed. GT class cars beating it.

>>14168798
Not the r&d, the production.

>>14168785
>Why is rwd better?
because by inertia the front tires have to do most of the work in braking and steering. So asking them to put down power too makes accelerating while cornering more likely to cause slip and therefore understeer, which makes you slower around a track
>Why even make sport oriented FWD cars like the type r if that's the case
Because, FWD isn't so big of a hindrance that the car is necessarily unfun or slow, it's just that it IS a hindrance. FF sports cars like the integra and civic type Rs, because they start with an already existing chassis that's made for FF and make them sporty, which costs less than developing an entirely new chassis. So they can make a pretty solid sports car for cheaper than FR competitors that have to develop entirely new chassis.

>>14168808
>Nissan
Found your problem

>>14168812
OK anon whatever

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>>14168796
FWD can be well performing at lower price brackets, but has a lower performance ceiling than RWD/AWD. That's why no supercars or race cars have FWD.

It's also less fun.

>>14168826
The image still makes no sense and it accompanying your post is so ironic you have to be shitposting

>>14168755
for ME? fwd because that's what my car is. sure rwd could be fun but I would never *need* it. sure awd would be "safer" but again I don't *need* it

>>14168834
>need

this is where you've outed yourself as a normie pleb. Of course you dont NEED to have fun or go fast around a circuit, that's not the point. Get the fuck out of here, this board is for car enthusiasts, people that enjoy driving, not some appliance user.

>>14168845
This board is for car enthusiasts , not idiots who think a cars drive train decides the outcome of a race

>>14168845
>muh exclusive club
I can be enthused about cars and enjoy driving without having a rwd. some fucking superiority complex you got there friend

>>14168732
>with actual credible facts, stats, and figures?
No. Because these are feels threads.

>>14168884
How is that the case

>>14168902
Because it's about feels. It's totally emotional. You can't quantify feels.

the quickest and fastest and best handling vehicles are RWD (top fuel and F1 for example).

/thread

>type up giant ass post
>10 seconds left for ban
Goddamn it

It's simple.

FWD: Boring
RWD: Faggot
AWD: Pussy

>>14168913
this. I enjoy and prefer RWD because I like doing skids and I like pointing the nose of the car with the throttle, among other things.

I'm sure there are people out there who enjoy FWD as much as I enjoy RWD. I accept that there are faster FWD and AWD cars, who gives a fuck. I fucking hate this board, this shouldn't even need to be said.

>>14168946
So...

What do you drive anon? 0WD?

FWD offers a manufacturer advantages in packaging and ease of assembly. The enthusiast may be interested in it because of its low weight (transmission and differential combined in one unit, called a transaxle, along with no driveshaft) and efficient power delivery (no 90° changes to rotation). Anything people say about it being "safer" is about 90% in suspension tuning and weight distribution, not the drivetrain. It's worth noting that a transverse MR layout shares most of these advantages. As far as I'm concerned FWD is perfectly acceptable in light, short wheelbase cars and low power applications. Above 300hp it's a little silly.

RWD offers better chassis balance, is a few pounds heavier all else being equal, and remains suitable in heavier and more powerful cars. It is a little harder to justify from a manufacturing standpoint, but it also delivers the most traditional driving experience, which most people would describe as better. As with FWD, most of the handling traits associated with it have more to do with weight distribution and the suspension design/tuning than with the drivetrain itself.

AWD systems vary wildly in design, and therefore in the way they drive, but modern torque vectoring systems offer incredible levels of performance, although some complain that they feel "artificial". Most AWD systems on the road don't really do much for performance, although all of them offer the same increased complexity and weight, as well as a loss in efficiency. Normally the increased traction makes up for the reduction in power delivered to the pavement. Normies buy it because it's "safer", but remember that it only offers more control when you're delivering torque to the wheels; AWD will not make the car stop any faster.

Realistically, the drivetrain layout isn't half as important as people make it out to be, especially when it's given without specifying the engine location, as in "FWD/RWD" versus "FF/FR/MR".

>>14168952
I have a moped with a fart can like any REAL European has.

>>14168952
obviously he's a bikecuck

>>14168785
because making a purpose built rwd chassis costs a lot.
that money invested in more power, better brakes, dampers, tyres, more development time, goes a long way.
that's why a toybaru costs almost as much as a mustang or camaro.
because it's a standalone low volume chassis.
a hotted up fwd shitbox like an auris would be have been faster for the same money.

>>14168941
>this is why my 100 hp miata is superior

>>14168952
>implying you can't criticise your own drivetrain

>>14168963
>>14168960
A bike is RWD, so that makes him a faggot.

>>14168959
You're talking shit
What is short wheelbase
What is light
Fuck off

>>14168959
I guess I should add that FWD and AWD will sometimes (especially in older models) require compromises in suspension design to accommodate the drive axles and steering gear being on the same wheels.

How well managed this compromise is is up to the engineers. It can be totally transparent or it can be an obvious shitshow.

>>14168969
fine work detective anon

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>>14168978
assmad ff cuck detected

>>14168959
good post

>>14168978
consider suicide

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>>14168884
This is what happens when you enter FWD in a racing series. All three LMP1 Nissans finished below this point. In fact they were so slow they were considered DNF. Note they were beaten by LMP2 and GT class cars by a considerable margin.

>>14168998
As if anyone is talking about or going to race their DD.

>>14168996
Can you read? Hrs insulting ff

>>14168943
Fuck it, retyping.
>AWD
heaviest drivetrain. Least efficient. Best handling on loose surfaces. Used in very high performance cars since it's easier to put the power down. Downside is a more front heavy car.
>RWD
Second-heaviest drivetrain. Second most efficient. Easiest to work on. Most steering lock. Best for sliding around having fun. Best for drag racing. Arguably best for track performance with AWD on the flip side just for the ability to rotate extra if you want to. Also usually lends itself to a well balanced car. Used in high performance cars to great effect, but they are typically harder to drive at the limit.
>FWD
lightest drivetrain. Most efficient. Uses the least space as well. Unfortunately, that means it is used everywhere for commuter cars, and most of them suck ass for enthusiasts. Ones where the engineers gave a damn about the chassis are breddy gud, such as 90s hondas ans whatnot. Modern hot hatches like the Type R and Focus ST show potential of FWD to an extent, although they are working off less than ideal chassis. Old Type Rs, DC2s, etc are better examples. Enthusiasts choice for 2wd rally and ice. Also not terrible at road stuff if set up right. I've seen an Integra hand everyone's asses to them at autocross.

So really, as I've always preached, go by the cars merits, not some blanket design decision. There are terrible and good cars of all drivetrains. I don't get why this is even up for debate.

>>14168996
it's probably that faggot who bought a prelude

>>14168978
Short wheelbase is any car with a wheelbase of less than 103.48". Light is any car less than or equal to 2,788 pounds and 8.3 ounces.

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>>14169010
second assmad ff cuck detected

>>14169006
This I'd what the argument has been over since the beginning , fuck off
>>14168998
>nissan

>>14169016
lelel

>>14169019
>"I don't care"

You care enough to post a reaction image

>>14168978
>>14168996

Kill yourselves shitposters
>I am banned for typing up a longer version of the above
>shitposters continue to run rampant
Fucking clueless mods

>>14169016
What about my civic with 103.2

>>14169020
It isn't ya dingus. There is reality and there is whatever the fuck is going on inside your head.

>>14169034
Learn to do fucking math corey

>>14169036
This is literally what the argument has been about since the beginning

>>14169034
what about it, faggot? is it fun to drive? that's all that matters in a street car

>>14169040
You're a dick
So it's only good for A-B to you? Fuck off

>>14169038
Corey drives a late model prelude

>>14168998
>Note they were beaten by LMP2 and GT class cars by a considerable margin.
Note they they also set considerably faster lap times than the GT cars.

>b-b-but a not fully working prototype didnt have great success in its first race!
Fuck off kid.

>>14169049
Learn to read corry, he asked you a question. Is it fun for you to drive?

>>14169065
I dont care

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>>14169030
>>14169030
>being this assmad
KEK!

>>14169068
Quality post, you are a fascinating individual to converse with.

>>14169049
that's not what I said at all, learn to read and get back to me.
the fact that your wheelbase is 103.2 means absolutely nothing. who cares. is it a fun car to drive though? it very well may be, I don't know, I haven't driven your car. I'm saying that fun is more important than a bunch of numbers. live for yourself dude, why are you asking some random faggot on a quebecois syrup enthusiast forum if your wheelbase length is acceptable

>>14169076
>tfw literally don't even know wheelbase of either of my cars

>>14169076
Can it compete

>>14169083
Autocross is 90% driver. If you're asking about more serious racing than that, I wouldnt recommend doing it with your daily driver since it requires extensive safety modifications at minimum.

>>14169083
It's your fun and excitement anon, you're the only one that can answer that.

>>14169066
Why don't you care? Why are you on here if you don't enjoy driving?

>>14169093
Why are you on here if you don't even drive?

>>14169087
>>14169088
>>14169093

I don't care about fun, comfort, or practicality
I don't fucking care
I want to be the best

>>14169076
>>14169081
I'm actually kind of wondering now if he took my 103.48" comment seriously. I have no idea what the wheelbase is on any of the three cars I own.

>>14169099
you will always be an autistic shitter of a failure in life
:^)

>>14169029
>>14169030
please fuck off back to reddit

>>14169099
wow i really hate this troll

>>14169097
Where did you get that idea? I love driving. I love cars.
>>14169099
Well, ya missed your window. If you weren't kart racing from age 5 you will never be exceptional. You can be good, bit being the best is only for the rich with really dedicated, loving parents.

>one hour later
>87 posts 5 images

>>14169117
>le reddit may may
>>14169130
It's been mostly reasonable. Good writeups by a few.

>>14169099
Having the best car doesn't make YOU the best.

I'd rather be the underdog, taking on an Evo in an 86 just to see if I could.

>>14169138
>rwd
See? You just did it.

>>14169146
not him but what exactly did he do

>>14169151
Discounted FF

>>14169146
What the fuck did he do? Do you relied how ridiculous of a race that is? You need to be as good as fucking Tsuchiya to have a chance.

>>14169064
Not much faster. Due to being FWD they had to make more tire stops as they flogged their fronts out way too quickly.

>>14169158
How? AE86 is an incredibly outdated shitbox, he'd be better off with an Integra coupe or something.

>>14169165
Nope

>>14169138
>>14169151
>>14169164
>>14169165
stop shitting on fwd please

>>14169172
Why the fuck not? Better brakes and better suspension. Also better power/weight.

>>14169182
Ff

>>14169181
How fucking poor is your reading comprehension? I am literally recommending a Honda over the initial d meme machine and the other anon just made an observation about nissan tires.

>>14169182

>>14169099
>you will
>NEVER
>EVER
>be the BEST

I heard you lost to a base model eg6 at a green light and tried to ram him off the road

Fucking autist

>>14168732
There's really nothing to settle. They all excel at their specific applications.

>>14169185
Don't be retarded m8. Driver >chassis >>>>>>>>>>> drivetrain layout.

>>14169193
So you admit ff is only good for nonenthusiat a-b appliance

>>14169189
>bragging that a ff car beats a 10 year older shitbox with no power, and speed not in the design brief

stop subtly shitting on fwd

>>14169199
Can I really win in an ek civic

>>14168913
>>14168949
>>14168959
>>14168992
>>14169014
Good posts, damn shame they are largely being ignored.

>>14169199
Can I really win in a Honda Prelude

>>14169221
My co-worker won $500 in a Prelude.

>>14169212
I don't know where you're getting that from, because i surr as hell am not implying it. That's just another example of judging by the cars merits individually and not one blanket aspect like I said in the bottom of >>14169014.
>>14169216
At what? Possibly in a driver's race provided you're good enough.

>>14169199
Can I really win in a 90s corolla

>>14169232
you don't get upvotes on this site m8

>>14169237
>>14169221
At what? Autocross? Most likely.
>>14169241
No fucking shit, what's your point?

>>14169259
ON THE TOGUE
ON THE TRACK

>>14169259
fuck off back to reddit?

>>14169266
Why? For quoting my own post? Never been there.
>>14169262
Sure why not, enter a stock class. My local dirt oval has a class for cars just like that, they're all equally competitive.

>>14169266
Only guy who belongs on reddit is you

>>14169274
>stock class
Fuck you

AWD is objectively superior in every way except weight which is completely insignificant

>>14169294
nah im pretty sure weight matters

>>14169281
Why fuck me? Thr next step up moves to V8-powered monte Carlos with custom suspension. Nothing short of a special tube frame chassis is faster around the oval.
>>14169294
Weight is insignificant
Fucking christ /o/

>>14169310
Weight matters. The very small amount of weight added by AWD doesn't.

>>14169331
yeah youre probably right. too bad nobody actually makes a lightweight AWD car. a lightweight 2 seat AWD sports car might be cool.

>>14169355
1st gen 2.5RSTI conversion is what you want.

>>14169331
>very small amount of weight added by AWD
lol

>>14169331
Weight doesn't matter if you have enough power

>>14169359
yeah. thats a lot of work though

>>14169362
FWD drivetrain (lightest)
>transaxle
>2 half shafts

RWD drivetrain
>transmission
>prop shaft
>rear diff
>2 half shafts

AWD drivetrain (subaru) (heaviest)
>4 halfshafts
>transaxle (not sure if its still called that with a subaru)
>driveshaft
>rear diff

subaru type awd doesnt have many more components than a RWD. i guess compared to a FWD, yes, AWD adds a lot of weight.

>>14169393
maybe if we're only talking about straight line racing

>>14169416
But just think of the end result. Essentially your own 22b, or at least damn close.

You guys are so fucking lame..

>>14169393
That's true. In that case the extra power AWD can put down makes it much quicker than RWD.

Everyone who ever took a physics class or isnt a retard knows that rwd is better than fwd. Fwd is for people who dont give a shit about the car they are driving and want something easy and cheap.

Guess why brakes at the front are bigger than on the rear. Brotip: its one of the reasons why cars which are at least a little performance oriendet should be rwd.

Posting fromy tesla kek

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>>14169508
Then why isn't there a car that's the same price but faster than a type r

Lolol ya cuck

>>14169544
Its still a fwd shitbox. Btw, cheap. One of the "pros" of fwd cars.... They are cheap.

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>>14169562
>faster than your car or any rwd you'll ever be able afford
>shitbox
>B-B-B-BUH IT'S FWD, MY CAR IS MUCH NICER BECAUSE IT'S RWD

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>>14169562
>RWD IN THE BACK
>spoiler: type r wins this race

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>>14169544
Civics are objectively good cars, but I wouldn't want one.

They are Civics. Call me a special snowflake, but there is a gorillion Civics on the road. How can you love a car that a million people are driving at any given time.

>>14169616
There's just as many imprezas, or base model stangs camaros which are pretty shit outside of the performance trim. Why would i look at the wrx or ss and just shove them off?

A wrx is a wrx, an ss is an ss, a type r is a type r. Each of those trims are almost entirely different vehicles

>>14169595
>>14169605
Exceptions confirm the rule, because they are exceptions. So there is one single fwd car thats faster than some cheap rwd ones, and thats so rare that you faggots constantly use it in fqd/rwd discussions. Proves that rwd >>>>>>> fwd

I prefer FR. Look at my username. What does that tell you coming from a FF enthusiast?

>>14168732
>Can anyone settle this AWD vs RWD vs FWD debate with actual credible facts, stats, and figures?
Go away /pol/, were you not watching LeMans this year?

>>14168732
NO. There are a lot of circumstances that play a role in determining what is the right choice for a setup. AWD would be the best option for performance if you set it up right but it's relatively heavy and expensive. RWD is the next best option and has many of the benefits AWD has over FWD while also being lighter and less expensive than AWD but it's still not as compact, light or cheap as FWD and doesn't allow for as much grip as AWD. Despite how negative that might sound it's still a very good compromise for most people that are looking for a performance and "fun"-car but that is not the whole story. The engine, suspension geometry, dampers and springs, tires, tire wear, weight, aero and many other things play a bigger role in how the car handles and feels while driving. What's even more important is driving experience, which you won't get by spouting memes about "RWD>FWD" on /o/, so go out there and drive your car.

>>14169616
millions of people also breath

>>14168764
>4WD
all the worst aspects of either

>>14168798
>Yeah I'm sure the rnd and the entire prelude and type r lines would be way more expensive if rwd
Yeah actually they would be fuckstick.

The prelude was derived from the Accord and the Type R the Civic. Those R&D costs were already sunk.

The top tier model is usually the highest profit per unit. Honda is seeking to maximize this.

Previously owned cars
>BRZ
>G35 Coupe
>Miata

Current and by far my favorite car
>Civic Si

It's all subjective. RWD cars can be fun, FWD can also be fun.
I'v come to realize that i like FWD equally if not more than RWD.

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>>14169647
>being this delusional
Waiting for your typical rwdfags btfo response

>>14168768
Keeping a long skid with FWD is kind of the same as RWD.

>enter turn with some speed and low gear
>pull handbrake to get rear end out
>counter steer and let those vtaks run free

>>14169605
Isn't the NGTC a class fwd too? Also rwd cars are heavily gimped in the btcc...

>>14169688
Lmao how are they gimped all cars have to have the same weight distribution

>>14169697
"engine management programming"

>>14169679
>3 FWDs on that list
>All <310hp
>beating 400-600hp RWD and AWD performance cars
WTF?

>>14169679
Three.
Three fwd cars on a list that long? Pathetic as fuck. Guess why fwd racing is a niche.

>>14169746
if you don't slow down there is no need to speed up
the burger king has a number of slow sections
and even on the faster sections cars are not going much more then 300 k/ph

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>>14169679
I agree

>>14169834
nah, the burgerking is considered a pretty high speed track

>>14169853
It also has a lot of long high speed corners so aero plays a very big role in lap times.

>>14169859
this is true

>>14169853
I still think it has some slower sections
aremberg
kallenhardt
bergwerk
caracciola karussell

but yes for the most part it flows well
I especially like the section between hohe acht and schwalbenschwanz

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>not central for maximum manouverability

>>14169925
so MWD or MFD?

>>14169925
or whatever bumper cars use

>>14168768
initiate drift with trail break or feint
apply minimal counter steel
power out

just remember that with fwd the power pulls you out of the drift
so all you have to do is apply the power at the right moment and have the front wheels facing the way you want to go

>>14169508
Tell me more about your basic physics class you're so proud of

>>14169544
I'm fairly certain you can go faster than a CTR for 44 grand or less new.