Behind fence, Mexico's notorious Juarez is wary of Trump's

>After the border got tighter, Cabada said, "the narco traffickers had to battle much harder to cross their drugs into the United States, and a lot ended up staying here."

>The increased local supply of drugs changed social dynamics in the city and addiction and petty crime soared, he said.

>It is hard to isolate causes of the chaos that engulfed Juarez in 2008 when the Sinaloa and Juarez cartels fought over trafficking routes, but the belief that tighter controls contributed to the city's deadly, downward spiral is widespread among business leaders, security officials and politicians consulted by Reuters.

>The city of 1.4 million saw murders rise from 336 in 2007 when work on the fence began, to 3,057 in 2010 when the work was mostly concluded. Only two people were murdered in El Paso in 2010, down from eight in 2006.

>Last year murders were back below 2007 levels and normal life has begun to return, but strong demand for methamphetamines in Juarez has triggered a local turf battle and a new spike in violence, Cabada and city security officials said.

>Drug use in Juarez is among the highest in Mexico, government health surveys show.
...

>'LESS CHAOS'

>A poll conducted in May by Baselice & Associates Inc for Cronkite News and other media groups spoke to 1,500 people in 14 border cities in Mexico and the United States. It found that 72 percent of respondents on the U.S. side and 86 percent on the Mexican side said they were opposed to building a wall.

>Esteban Sabedra, a factory worker living in working class Anapra, on the western fringe of Juarez, is among the minority of Mexicans who would like to see more secure fencing.

>Sabedra's home is a city block away from a rusting, low wire fence in place since the 1980s separating Juarez and El Paso, that the U.S. Customs and Border Protection is now replacing with 1.3 miles (2.0 km) of 15-foot-high steel bollard barricade.

>He welcomes the new structure, saying he hopes it will deter human and drug traffickers who currently ply the neighborhood and intimidate residents.

>"(This new fence) is not a problem for us, on the contrary, it's better, less people will move through here," said Sabedra, who earns 150 pesos ($7.28) per day making brake pads for the U.S. market at a Juarez assembly plant. "There will be less chaos."

>Indeed, experts say fencing around El Paso is one of the factors behind a sharp drop in U.S. border guard apprehensions in the sector, to 14,495 last year from 122,256 in 2006, a drop partially attributed to illegal migrants shifting routes to less protected stretches of border.

>Migrant flows are a fraction of what they were in the sector largely because of the greatly increased security presence including the fencing and a near doubling of border agents, the Washington Office on Latin America rights group said in an October report.
...

>DERELICT HOMES, SPAS

>Ciudad Juarez's public prosecutor, Jorge Arnaldo Nava López, blames the El Paso fencing for contributing to a sharp uptick in crime along a fertile strip through the desert known as Valle de Juarez. The crime spike has been particularly acute where the barrier ends near Guadalupe municipality.

>"It has fostered a displacement towards the villages on the outskirts of Ciudad Juarez," Nava said.

>Valle de Juarez used to be a popular weekend escape for the city's middle class. Now, brutalized by violence and abandoned by outgunned municipal police, many of its spas, holiday homes and cotton farms lie derelict.

>Officials and migrants say Mexicans and Central Americans pay gang members hundreds of dollars to wade across a sluggish stretch of the river and try their luck dodging border guards to reach the towns of Tornillo and Fabens on the other side.

>Fortification of the border could push the chaos elsewhere. But Nava, who previously headed Chihuahua state's anti-kidnapping agency, fears it could also spark blowback in the form of increased extortion and kidnapping if local gangs now dedicated to drug trafficking are frustrated by a new wall.

>"We are not exempt from the possibility that this kind of crime flares up, and that (more) drugs intended for the United States begin to stay here in Ciudad Juarez," said Nava.

>(Additional reporting by Mica Rosenberg in New York; Editing by Sue Horton and Mary Milliken)

They're crimes aren't our problem and never will be anymore once the wall is up.

>>96831
considering half of Mexico now reside in the US, they have been helped enough.

we have helped them so much we might have fucked America in the process.

it's enough already.

>Mexicans overwhelmingly say they oppose the wall U.S. President-elect Donald Trump has promised to build along their northern border.

Tough shit.

It's happening and the Americans have every right to build that fucking wall since cockroaches won't stop crossing over the boarder by any means necessary.

>>96907
>>A poll conducted in May by Baselice & Associates Inc for Cronkite News and other media groups spoke to 1,500 people in 14 border cities in Mexico and the United States. It found that 72 percent of respondents on the U.S. side and 86 percent on the Mexican side said they were opposed to building a wall.
You missed this part. Americans who live on the other side of the border don't want it either.

>>96910

>1500 people

That shows literally nothing.

They benefit from cheap labor.

They're a minority.

Most people want them gone.

This was shown by Trump winning the US elections.

I feel like I should point out that I'm not from the USA, or that continent altogether, to begin with. I personally have no reason to dislike or like one or the other side.

You simply can't deny that there's a huge problem when millions of them keep crossing over every Goddamn single year.

Yeah, the legal process is long and it doesn't let everyone in. Tough shit. That's the law.

the solution is to build a wall around Juarez

walls are back in vogue

>>96910
>in 14 border cities

Let me inform you as to why they are so opposed to the walls.

Mexicans bring cheap labor and consumerism. That's just a fact.
This fact is evident through the local economies of these cities, and these cities simply don't want to get rid of all the benefits of having illegals work for practically free all while spending their money here in the USA. Keep in mind these aren't just small shady businesses that employ these people, either.
Also, a lot of these cities are populated by large numbers of hispanics, so naturally they would be opposed to making life harder to extended family that may lie on the other side of that border.
>tl;dr its a biased survey because they asked hispanic cities for their opinion

>>96912
>tough shit, its the law

Its that simple. If you don't like the law then change it. I'm not sure why people complain so much about this stupid wall when they could just use that effort to ease up and quicken the legal immigration process.

Most illegals prefer this way anyways; just ask them.

>recent poll shows that illegal immigrants [OPPOSE] not being able to cross the border illegally!

>>96825
meanwhile mexico is securing its southern border to stop illegal immigration

>He notes that shortly after the wall was built, Juarez was plunged into a hellish war between cartels that made it the murder capital of the world, while El Paso remained the safest U.S. city of its size.

Sounds like the wall worked.

>>96912
Trump did not win the popular vote.

>>96948
He did if you get rid of votes in California and new york.

>>96825
>Mexicans keep shitting up a mexican city !

Wow, maybe the US really does need a wall,

really makes you think, huh.....

>>96948

I bet you and Hillary try to get the highest score in golf too.

>>96957
What kind of idiot compares the popular vote to a golf game?

>>96962
The ones who are slightly less stupid then the retards like yourself who think that winning the poplar votes means you should get to be the president

>>96966
I'm sorry for offending your delicate /pol/ sensibilities. The funniest part was where you thought the winning party had the will of the people behind them when they lose the popular vote.

>>96968
He had the will of the people that mattered behind him thus his electoral landslide.

>>96968
>But we won the popular vote
>But the goal is to win the electoral college
>But we won the popular vote
>...

And around we go

>>96966
He wasn't arguing that Donald Trump shouldn't be president, he was calling into question the will of the people argument.

>>96910
Because we know to trust polling regarding anything with Trump, right?

>>96998
Not this tired argument. Polling is an indicator of popularity. The polling said Hillary had a slim lead and that's what the popular vote showed. You could argue that individual state polling was off but the national polls ended up being pretty accurate.

>>96999
Gave results so accurate it led to the greatest loss the left's had in years.

I guess this is the way they're rationalizing things now? We failed because we measured at a metric that didn't matter?

>>96910
>implying the "Americans" polled in these border towns don't have last names that end with -ez

>>97008
Are you saying they are less American than you?

>>97016
He is implying that they are illegal aliens and not citizens. he is not wrong

>>97017
The thousands of Americans with last names ending in -ez disagree.

>>97029
That doesn't change reality amigo

Toss rope, tie a loop, climb,

1 in 4 who voted for orange guy are the minority.

>>97035
You mean reality where most people don't want a wall on either side of the border? Because that's where we live.

>>97075
Well if all those feck darned murricans would just stop crawling up into our great country, maybe we wouldn't need to help those murriclasps pay for that wall. Them Amerifats stealing the jobs of god fearing Mexican citizens is just one of the many reasons we should help that orange guy in making a wall right, amigos?

Looks like Mexico won't be paying for it after all.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/index.html

>>96949
>If you ignore the people who disagree with Trump, then everyone agrees with him
Jesus Christ, I fucking prefer Trump to Hillary, and even I know you're full of shit.

>>97002
Well, they literally did, and while they did measure said metric very accurately, it turned out to be pointless because of the electoral college.

>>97396
Of course they aren't, why would they?
What? Did you just think Trump could force Mexico to build a wall?

We're you actually retarded enough to believe a politician, and a populist at that?

>>97396
>>98588
You're being purposely deceitful. He's outlined his plan a long time ago. We build it now, they pay us back.

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Pay_for_the_Wall.pdf

>>99165
Protip: they aren't going to pay

>>96831
>US immigration problems aren't Mexico's problems and they won't pay for the wall
?

>>99204

You're a special kind of retard, you know?

All he has to do is tax money transfers out, or cut all the aid we waste on them.

>>99229
Oh look, the completly misinformed imbecile is calling me a retard.

You know the US has a trade deficit with Mexico, right?
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html

>>99232

Oh look, the completely retarded shill is straw manning.

Taxing money transfers or cutting foreign aid get ignored and your link is from years ago.

>>99242
You don't get it. All of the money transfers (not even the tax on them but the money transfers themselves) and all of the supposed "aid" we supposedly give them does not equal how much we borrow from them every year. That's what a trade deficit is.
>your link is from years ago
guess what, it's still 60billion+.
https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264


Also, see >>99235

>>98587
That is some grade A bullshit. The pollsters were all predicting an electoral college landslide for Hillary. Then post election, the media starts claiming that those polls were only based on popular vote. (Even though they were all state based)

This is why no one trusts the MSM anymore. Even when they are caught lying they just start making new lies to cover themselves.

>>99277
No they weren't predicting a landslide for Hillary. Even Nate Silver gave Trump a 30%+ chance to win. It turns out that's about the same percentage of Americans who actually like him and his policies.

>>96912
>>96919
The law isn't a bad idea, practicality aside, if they make it easier for people to get into the US as citizens, get payed what they deserved for the work they do, and benefit the US economy as a whole, sure.

Doubt that'll happen, though.

>>96912
heres something I don't understand. Why is cheap labour a problem? America is a capitalist society, isn't it in a business' best interest to hire cheap labour?

How do you fix this problem?

>>96825
Mexico could also legalize gun ownership. Since the criminals already own the fucking police, I doubt it would be a big deal.

>>100610
Because the people who want to bring them to work for 4$ an hour are the same people who fight for minimum wage increases. It forces up everyone else's bottom line so that you can have the best prices around. If there were no minimum wage it wouldn't be a problem.

>>96975

You don't know shit

so how is this wall gonna get paid for??

>>101492
It's never going to be fully paid for. Even if they build the thing the maintenance costs are going to be "huge", to use a Trump word.

>>96831
that sounds awefully humane of you, you were raised by good parents it seems.

>>96828
>Sabedra, who earns 150 pesos ($7.28) per day making brake pads

doesn't this bother anybody else??

>>99229
>All he has to do is tax money transfers out

you mean the money that corporation owners send across the border as capital to their factories in Mexico? Or just money sent from the workers in the usa to their families in Mexico?

How do Americans think this is going to work? You'll spend billions on an idiotic wall that can be defeated with a rope and ladder?

>>101518
>defeated with a rope and ladder
Most illegal immigrants to the US come by airplane and overstay their visas.

>>101521
so the wall is even stupider than it appears at first blush? jesus

>>101523
no, its just not tall enough to stop airplanes :^)