http://qz.com/560106/according-to-bernie-sanders-income-inequality-means-many-americans-arent-truly-free/
FEEL THE BURN TRUMP FAGS #Bernie4President
>>422
>believing America is still a democracy
>believing the establishment can change
https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
>>422
I like what Bernie's doing, but he'll become the next JFK even if he DOES get elected, which is mechanically impossible considering most voting booths are rigged anyway.
The last chance we had at a real democratic government in America died when Bryan lost the election.
>>464
>considering most voting booths are rigged anyway.
Nice conspiracy theory
>>470
It's not a conspiracy theory if it's established to be true, senpai.
http://americablog.com/2015/08/mathematician-actual-voter-fraud-kansas-republicans.html
I'm hoping Bernie wins soley because the only other options at this point are either a corporate shill whose allegiances shift with the wind (and the money) or one of several retarded screaming monkeys
>>476
>americablog
Might as well link me to infowars
>>485
Just report it and move on
>>422
There's one thing that makes me absolutely abhor Bernie.
He wants a 15$/hour minimum wage.
I'm young and unskilled and no one would hire me for that much. He's killing the job market for people without advanced knowledge or experience
>>478
Bernie would ruin the country because all his policies are based off failed states like Sweden, and also he's a kek that still needs to apologize for fucking slavery. He's the political version of poor little white boy.
>>485
https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kansas%20voting%20booth%20rigged
>>495
Sweden isn't a failed state.
>but what about le third world country in hdi meme
Their HDI has only gone up since then, and the UN has officially withdrawn that report.
>refugees blah blah blah
Bernie is actually very strong on illegal immigration, because he realizes how much it harms 'comfy' economies.
That aside, what's wrong with apologizing for slavery? Was it not wrong? He's not saying we need to give reparations, just sign a paper saying "Oops, sorry". Yeah, it wasn't wrong at the time, but neither were the Salem Witch Trials, and the state still apologized for those.
>>535
True. And let's not forget that the most recent country to be added to the "failed state" list was Portugal, and they failed because they tried to resist the EU.
According to Bernie Sanders this will all change magically if he only gets elected.
>>488
This. Even if we taxed the 1% at 100%, we still wouldn't be able to pay for a fraction of Sanders' policies. Because economics is not a zero-sum game, income inequality is a complete non-issue, especially considering that everyone has gotten richer as the gap has widened in recent decades. The "poor" in the US still have access to things like smartphones, video cameras, and computers. If you don't believe me, go to worldstarhiphop.com
>>488
>He wants a 15$/hour minimum wage.
Inflation happens when wages rise. Wages and prices are connected. So paying for this would not be a problem because very simply the dollar would just lose some value.
So what would be the point of this?
To create a minimum wage to ensure that everybody has enough money to live with.
>>589
>The "poor" in the US still have access to things like smartphones, video cameras, and computers.
The poor in the US (and no, I'll not put quotation marks around that) are literally starving.
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm
Some of this hunger is due to careless spending (when drugs or smart phones are bought instead of food) but some of it is literally because there is not enough money.
>>422
According to Bernie Sanders, OP is a huge faggot.
>>663
But with inflation money is worth less. My 15$/h will be the same as 7$/h.
I can't understand the point of doing this. Not to mention the value of my savings and my spending power
>>675
>But with inflation money is worth less. My 15$/h will be the same as 7$/h.
Sure.
But those who get 5 dollars now would be happy to get 7 (effective) dollars tomorrow.
A 2% inflation rate is considered very healthy for a currency to have. But the point of this is not to stimulate the rate of inflation, but rather to create a minimum standard for every American.
I guess I'm voting for him. He's the only one I trust.
>>675
Except nobody who gets paid over $25 an hour is going to get a raise as a result of this.
>>686
But it will make my wage worth less. How is this fair?
>>700
It won't though, unless you're making over $25 an hour, which you already said you aren't.
>>675
>Not to mention the value of my savings
Only if you don't bring them to the bank.
What matters for your savings on the bank isn't the rate of inflation but your interest rate + the inflation rate. The healthier the economy is, the better your interest rates.
The poor getting more money to spend means more money in the economy means better interest rates for you. You're winning.
>and my spending power
>>700
No this would also translate into wage raises for others.
>Bernie's economic policies
They're abhorrent. There's no way we would be able to pay for everything, even if were. Raising the minimum wage, "free" college, among other things.
>tfw the only legitimate option (Rand) has a near zero chance of winning
Chances are the nominees will either be Trump/Carson v. Hillary.
>>422
super happy we have this board now!!
no more stupid right wingers from /pol/ with their meme pictures and all that!
#FeelTheBern
Thanks Hiro for creating this safe space for us! :)!
>>713
Wait, so if I currently make 10$/H and my contract is changed to 15$/H, but at the same time we have inflation, doesn't that make my wage worth 7$/H?
Am I misunderstanding the process?
>>721
>50% inflation
No.
You are severely overestimating the proportion of the total cake that is going to be handed out.
50% happens when the economy is crashing.
>>721
It does not. People who make above $25 an hour aren't getting their salaries changed. The prices of goods aren't going to change, simply because the super-poor has more breathing room.
>>728
>The prices of goods aren't going to change,
They will though, just not very notably.
When poorfags suddenly don't go for the worst of the worst because it's the only thing they could afford, then that "food" is going to leave the market.
Instead, there will be more demand for more expensive food, which in turn will become slightly more expensive.
>>733
Exactly. Which as I said, doesn't effect you if you're making less than $15 currently, because you'll still have more net money, even after the increased costs.
>>721
Your wage is going to be raised from 10 to 15 dollars and those 15 dollars will then be worth something like 14.50 dollars.
>>422
How do you plan on funding this anyway berniekek
>>741
Things like this tend to pay for themselves.
Just like spending taxes on education tends to lead to a better economy.
>>715
>Chances are the nominees will either be Trump/Carson v. Hillary.
I know that trump can't be stumped and all, but it's not even the primaries yet. Take a look at who was polling well around this time in the last two elections. Santorum won Iowa in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008.
>>485
What's wrong with infowars?
>>663
>>663
>Some of this hunger is due to careless spending (when drugs or smart phones are bought instead of food) but some of it is literally because there is not enough money.
>The average SNAP recipient received about $125 a month (or about $4.17 a day) in fiscal year 2014.
More than enough for people who budget. Nobody in the U.S. is dying of starvation. Not even the homeless. Not even illegal aliens who can't apply for government assistance and work for less than minimum wage.
Speaking of which, minimum wage laws were created by racist white unions who didn't want to complete with black labor. The plan worked swimmingly. The only time raising it is justified is in response to inflation, otherwise, as we've seen time and time again, jobs and hours are cut while prices go up.
There are actually people, in this very thread, that think large scale redistribution of wealth works.
Socialists and communists define "freedom" a little differently from the way we traditionally do in America. Economic security becomes the benchmark rather than freedom of expression.
>>767
It does, look at the Bush tax cuts.
>>535
>That aside, what's wrong with apologizing for slavery?
FUCK OFF CUCKS
no living person in america has been, is currently, or ever will be a slave and/or slave owner. there is nothing to apologize for.
>>833
So, when the state of Massachusetts apologized for the Salem Witch Trials in the 70s, despite the government not being the same, they were essentially cuckolds.
>>767
It works perfectly when you're the only functioning economy in the world, but this isn't post WW2 anymore, so better get rolling on the nuclear annihilation of our economic competition.
>>535
>Sweden isn't a failed state.
Nice meme.
Sweden is on track to bankrupting themselves over their migrant lust, as well as crashing the housing market with no survivors.
>>842
basically yes
who the fuck were they even apologizing to? everyone who was already dead?
>>750
Comparing Trump to Santorum or Huckabee is about as wrong as you can get. The primary voters were basically trying to find a viable alternative to Romney, and they couldn't, so along with a lot of media backroom deals and vote fixing, the establishment handed off the nom to Romney.
Trump is the 2016 Romney, and now the establishment is the one scrambling to find an alternative that largely does not exist unless you follow the underpants gnome theory of Rubio's victory.
>Step 1: Make Rubio the establishment choice
>Step 2: ???
>Step 3: Win the nomination!
Good luck
>>868
>what is a symbolic gesture
A tautology.
All gestures are symbolic.
>>535
He WAS very strong on illegal immigration.
Now he's just pandering and lying like all the other politicians.
And are you guys from Reddit too stupid to learn or something?
Remember your "CHANGE" from 2008 Obama? Outside of worse race relations nothing has change. Bernie will be the same shit, empty promises for idiots.
Most people live paycheck by paycheck with no savings, no investment, and shit credit. That said, they somehow have a new car and iPhone.
>>1306
They have been brainwashed into thinking those are essentials.
Also, they don't just live paycheck to paycheck.
There is a very real proportion of the population that has so much debt that they will never be able to pay it off.
>>749
Well honestly giving out gibsmedats is a surefire way to kill the dollar. Our country needs to abandon NCLB.
>>422
Most people do not realize while caring about inflation that wages has remained stagnant for 30 years because it has not kept up with the cost of living and and inflation. Even the minimum wage does not fit with the cost of living in most cities anymore.
If we can put fair balance on mimimum wage where it should be, it would be around $22 an hour. $15 is not enough.
>>535
Sweden is a failed state dude. I should know, I live here. I give it 10-15 years max if there are no drastic reforms
>>2180
>I give it 10-15 years max
That shouldn't be a problem then because the euro looks like it's going to die before that.
>>422
What's the difference between feel the bern and change
>>2344
So are you actual gonna rebute me or get assmad?
>>2344
>i want /news/ to be my hugbox so please dont use any triggering language
>>2350
#rekt
>>2344
>reddit trying this hard to get board control already
Lick my gaping asshole
>>2383
You just called me wrong and then agreed with me.
>>2391
I called you wrong because you're wrong. Booths aren't rigged, the votes go towards nothing. The real election is behind the scenes.
Im prepping the bull right as we speak
>l>476
I don't trust purported math papers which aren't at least published in an AMS LaTeX template. Or .. y'know .. don't have a SINGLE DAMN EQUATION in them.
"Look look I'm sciencing! See the charts? What's data? You should agree with me because the chart!"
Science is literally magic for these people. And charts are magical talismans. It's worse than cargo cult science -- because the natives in the cult are innocent. These are actively trying to decide.
>FEEL THE BURN TRUMP FAGS422
Way to discredit yourself you dumbass. I know you cant help yourself from sperging out but come on, this is supposed to be for discussion.
>>422
He's not the worst candidate but he's far from perfect
>>1306
I seriously don't understand this. I'm afraid to spend money on anything atm -trying to start a Roth IRA- yet everyone has all this shit.
>>535
>what's wrong with apologizing for slavery?
It wasn't committed by the current state, and neither the current state nor its current populace have anything do with slavery.
>>422
When people are free to negotiate their own business dealings with others, there will be income inequality. Inequality is a result of freedom.
The only way to end income inequality is for the government to dictate the terms under which people will associate with each other. That is the opposite of freedom.
Sanders's statement is Newspeak: Freedom is not freedom. Government control is freedom.
>>2577
>That is the opposite of freedom.
One particular "freedom". You are using words with ambiguous meanings to create false paradoxes.
A sandwich is better than nothing.
But nothing is better than a good juicy hamburger.
Therefore, sandwich > nothing > hamburger, a sandwich is better than a good juicy hamburger.
This basically what you are doing.
>>760
Everything
>>422
I agree with Bernie Sanders on a lot of stuff, but I know his chances of winning are slim to none.
>>663
Raising the minimum wage is useless in the long run. I'm against minimum wage in the first place. Why should burger flippers and professorial scanners make enough money to live comfortably.
Food insecurity-the state of being without reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food.
This isn't exactly the most accurate way to figure out who's starving. its also not the governments fault niggers would rather by Jordans or alcohol.
>>2609
If he did win, he'd just disappoint everybody. Idealists are best in the opposition, where they can actually fight for what they believe in.
>>2611
>Why should burger flippers and professorial scanners make enough money to live comfortably.
Why shouldn't they?
Our productivity has risen dramatically in the past decades (minus the last one because there was so little demand). Where is it all going?
>>2592
Freedom is the ability to do what you want to do. If the government tells an employer what he must pay, that is the opposite of freedom. Freedom is the employer paying what he chooses to pay and what the employee chooses to work for. As long as either party can refuse to pay or refuse to work, there is freedom. But when either party is forced to pay or forced to work, there is not freedom. Minimum wage is forcing the employer to pay.
>>2642
>Freedom is the ability to do what you want to do.
Okay. Without money you can't do the things you want to do. Therefore you are not free.
>Freedom is the employer paying what he chooses to pay
Oh, a limited definition.
Maybe, we need to limit some people's freedom to ensure that other people have any freedom at all.
Slavery was abolished not because people thought people shouldn't be free to decide what to pay the slaves (nothing), but because the idea was that those slaves should be able to do what they want.
>>2642
So if people can't get work for good pay, then they cannot choose to work for good pay. They are not free.
Basically they are now being liberated. By your own definition.
>>2647
>Without money you can't do the things you want to do. Therefore you are not free.
People have the ability to pick and choose their careers. If someone decides to work at Burger King they know what they're going to get.
>>2647
Oftentimes two people's freedoms will be in conflict.
Person 1's freedom to have his demands obeyed (e.g., pay me this, do this work for me).
Person 2's freedom to not obey the demands of another (e.g., not pay that, not do that work).
Since these freedoms are in conflict, we must decide which freedom takes precedence, the freedom to have one's demands obeyed, or the freedom not to obey another's demands.
Slavery and minimum wage give precedence to person 1's freedom to be obeyed, at the expense of person 2's freedom not to obey.
>>2656
>People have the ability to pick and choose their careers.
Only if they have the qualifications (or ability) for these careers. Only if there is an opening.
There's only so many bike repair shops a village needs.
>>2652
You always have to consider both people: the payer and the payee. Bernie seems only to be focused on the freedom of the payee to get paid what he wants to get paid, but not on the payer, to pay what he wants to pay.
The essence of freedom is the freedom to say no.
Person 1 wants sex, person 2 says no.
Person 1 wants person 2's wallet, person 2 says no.
Etc.
In call cases where person 1's and person 2's freedoms are in conflict, it is the freedom of the person who says no whose freedom takes precedence over the freedom of the person who says yes.
>>2663
>There's only so many bike repair shops a village needs.
Yeah, so open another one and offer better prices. Capitalism 101, right here.
>>2666
>You always have to consider both people:
Yes, but so do you.
>>2667
That doesn't change the market. You still have one repair shop and one guy who just lost his job because he can't do his job. If both guys keep going down with their prices then neither will be able to live from this job.
>>2669
>implying competition is bad
>>2668
The two people:
1. The person demanding to be given money.
2. The person refusing to give money.
Only one person can be free in this case. Who should it be, the one making the demand, or the one refusing the demand?
Think about the beggar on the street. He has a freedom to have his demands for your money obeyed, and you have a freedom not to obey his demands for your money. Whose freedom takes precedence? It all cases, the person who says no, who refuses to obey, is the one whose freedom takes precedence. There is no freedom to be obeyed.
>>2670
No, I'm not implying that.
I'm saying there is a limit to the amount of bike repair shops that a village needs.
>>2672
>Think about the beggar on the street.
Is he working for me?
Am I making money from his work?
>>2674
He is taking up space.
He says this has value for you and demands that you pay him.
You say it has no value for you and refuse to pay him.
Who gets to decide what has value for you and what you will pay? You or him? Which one is freedom? For him to make your decisions for you, or for you to make them?
>>2673
Yeah, and customers will go to the best one. What's the problem here?
>>2682
>He says this has value for you and demands that you pay him.
>You say it has no value for you and refuse to pay him.
So it's a very different situation from the one we're discussing? Minimum wage does not come with compulsory employment.
>>2685
We were discussing the difference between the freedom to choose any job and the ability to do it.
>>2682
>Who gets to decide
Not that poster, but how about a court of law? Beggar better have a contract if he's claiming compensation for work.
Where I live there's these guys who spray down your window at intersections with water even if you tell them not to then demand you give them money, as a weird form of extortion.
>not voting for rand paul
>>2688
Alright, if I have a skill I'm either going to find a job doing that skill or open a business doing that skill.
If I don't have a skill I'm going to go to college to learn that skill. If I can't pay for college then I can get funding from the government for it, as of now.
We can pick and choose. That's my piece.
>>2686
Minimum wage does not allow the employer to decide what has value to him and how much that value is. The value is dictated by the employee. This is similar to the beggar dictating that he has value to a passerby.
I would argue that both the employer and the passerby have freedom to decide what has value to them, and it has precedence over the freedom of the employee or beggar to decide what has value to employer or passerby.
If you are not even free to decide what has value to you, and it is up to someone else to decide what has value to you, that is far from anything that could be called freedom, to not even have freedom over your own thoughts and preferences.
>>2694
The matter of fact is there will always be poor people in capitalism. We can't change that and we don't want to change that. It's important for capitalism to work.
But what we can decide is how poor exactly these people are.
>>2696
Exactly this. Who is the government to tell me that I should value labor at least this much and pay a minimum wage, or that I should value property rights and not steal, or that I should value life and not murder.
The whole function of a government is to impose a collective set of values and enforce them, you dingus.
>>2696
>Minimum wage does not allow the employer to decide what has value to him and how much that value is.
Yes, he does.
If he doesn't like your work, he'll kick you out. There's other faggots who are also aiming for your job.
>>422
Bernie fails to understand why capitalism worked before and now it breeds the situation we are currently in. It is because of the merging of government and large corporations. Corporations buying off tax codes, specifically tailored for them to stamp out competition. Buying up politicians via donations for when they need a permit -- they will get it. All this NEGATES actual competition, and allows these corporations to treat their workers like shit, and rape the public.
Bernie's plan basically is to tax people more (which also will stiffle competition because small business will be even MORE unable to grow once they get to a certain very low point that Bernie and his supporters would call "rich").
He just wants to throw money at the problem, not FIX the problem. It's a huge downward spiral. His heart may be in the right place, but all he will do is exacerbate the problem.
>>422
This is true. Because America is a nation built on the principal of equality, social democracy is the logical espression of our constitutional values.
>>2704
In the case of minimum wage, the freedom that is protected by the government, that is, the freedom to say no or to refuse, is the opposite of most other cases. Usually the party that refuses is protected by the government against the demands of another party. E
Examples:
Party 1 demands sex from party 2.
Party 2 says no.
Government says party 2's freedom to say no trumps party 1's freedom to be obeyed.
Party 1 wants to kill party 2.
Party 2 says no.
Government sides with party 2.
Party 1 wants the property of party 2.
Party 2 says no.
Government sides with party 2.
Party 1 wants to be paid a certain amount by party 2.
Party 2 says no.
Now all of a sudden government sides with party 1?
>>2713
>democracy
Was considered nearly a vulgarity by the founding fathers. Learn to history.
>>2714
They still have the right to say no. No one is forcing them to hire this person.
>>2714
>Now all of a sudden government sides with party 1?
If you refuse to pay your employee what is agreed upon for his work, of course you'll be forced to pay. It's a legally binding agreement, minimum wage or no.
The minimum wage just raises the minimum you're allowed to agree on.
It's a fucking trade, labor vs pay, and you're trying to run off with the money.
>>2718
What they thought, but chose not to include in the constitutional scripture, means no more than your opinion or mine.
Death of the author, mother fucker.
>>2722
They didn't include democracy. Because of this you choose to imply it was there. There is no basis.
>>2718
The "founding fathers" did not think anything. They were a wildly disparate group with wildly disparate opinions on issues like democracy, slavery, or centralization.
>>2719
But they don't have the right to say no to paying a certain amount. So the right of the person to demand a certain payment trumps the right of the other person to say no to that payment.
In other words, the right to make a demand is protected over the right to refuse. We need an explanation for why this case is the opposite of what happens in all other cases. What is special about this case that the right to be obeyed takes precedence over the right not to be obeyed, when in every other case, the opposite is true?
>>2725
I'll await a citation on one person involved with the founding of this country that supported democracy in writing. I will also await the citation of "we are a democracy" in any documentation that this country is founded on.
Thanks.
>>2724
Tbf that's no more ridiculous than people who extrapolate "a well-ordered militia" to be "my right to own a rocket launcher and thirty AKs"
>>2728
>In other words, the right to make a demand is protected over the right to refuse.
You can still refuse. The only thing you can't do is offer LESS.
>>2732
Yes, especially since the former part of that amendment does so. Not sure why anyone would use the militia part to justify it.
>>2731
Define "democracy".
>>2733
In which case, the person who is deciding what will be paid has more right than the person who is deciding what will not be paid. Usually it is the negative that has more right. For some reason the positive is being given more right in this case.
I don't think there is a principle for why this reversal is being made. Rather, it's a practical matter: if we don't reverse the precedence of rights/freedom in this case, people will starve. So we are willing to reverse the normal order of rights and freedom to prevent that.
Yet the reversal of freedom precedence is still there. One person's right to demand is greater than another person's right to refuse.
>>2728
If you phrase the question right, either side can be the one being told no in any situation. Your just arguing semantics right now.
>>2743
mob rule
>>2747
In this case, the question is how much money is handed over. That is being done by the employer. So the person who is saying no is the employer.
>>2754
Well, nobody wants that. But democracy in the Athenian sense is what the US strives to practice.
Democracy in the common parlance means democratic republicanism. You know this.
>>2760
Athenian democracy is mob rule except the mob is only male landowners.
>>2759
>How much money are you going to hand over?
>No
And then you don't hire them. Passes your test just fine.
SANDERS 2015
REVOLUTION IS HERE
Sanders isn't even a socialist fam, just a liberal in leftist clothing
More minimum wage won't mean much if most minimum wage workers can't handle their money wisely. It just means there's more money to swindle the dumb goyim.
>>2921
And soon enough that money starts to devalue, and we're back where we started.
Except for those who were already making above the minimum, they just become overall poorer.
>>2765
>landowners
I'd be happy if there was a monetary or property qualification for voters
>>2923
>and we're back where we started.
Not quite, because we have a baseline for wage. Again, inflation and wages are locked together. The only time when inflation outgrows wages is when there is one group of people whose wages won't rise with the average. But with a minimum wage this is easily done.
>Oh, we had an inflation rate of 3%? Better raise minimum wage a little then.
>Except for those who were already making above the minimum,
They'll likely get raises too, to keep their jobs more attractive than the minimum wage jobs.
>>2924
Do you have any evidence that people with lots of money are more qualified to choose their leaders than people without money?
>>2555
>Republican or Democrat, everyone (particularly over the past twenty years) has been fairly right of center. Why not have a swing to the left?
The left has been mainstream since the 60's, youngster.
>>2927
And who pays for all these increased wages? Especially for the one supposed ones that'll happen to those making above in the minimum?
What prevents the companies from outsourcing further? What prevents them from pushing for more automation? What prevents them from simply cutting jobs and pushing more work on less people?
And what about smaller businesses who can't do any of the above, and also can't just magic up the additional funds for their workers?
Vote for Bernie "The cuck" sanders!
>>422
>throwing money at the problem
>not addressing the root causes of the current situation (noone can get jobs, noone spends, companies cut jobs, repeat)
>assuming increased spending money alone won't just lead to inflation and any new jobs staying as shit-tier H1-B fuel)
I'm not sure how possible it's to be so naive and gullible. I blame coddling and negligent parents.
>>2929
Yes, generally. People with money tend to at least be educated.
>>2929
It all boils down to better decision making skills. The guy who studied STEM or business in all likelihood makes better choices than the burnout stoner who mooches off of everyone he possible can, or the transcanine who got a Masters in Genderqueer Theory.
>>2943
>And who pays for all these increased wages?
That is actually a good question as likely a number of companies won't be able to maintain their current business model. But if we consider minimum wage the minimum of what a human deserves for his work because that's what he needs to live a decent life, then those employees have business models that are based on exploitation that should end.
>Especially for the one supposed ones that'll happen to those making above in the minimum?
Those raises will be on a completely different level from the other raises. They'll likely be marginal and over time.
But you are right. If people do this carelessly, this may have some fierce results.
There is a different problem however that is slowly encroaching. Automation.
Very soon, a lot of people are simply going to lose their jobs. Like, 10-20% of the people. Minimum wage is probably only going to hasten this process.
But then what?
We need to decide very soon what to do with people whose labor is simply no longer needed. Automation will march on beyond that, and more and more people might lose their jobs. This will be a huge demographic shift.
Do people deserve to live comfortably if they can't contribute to the workforce anymore? Productivity will rise. Should we give them handouts with tax money? Should we create artificial jobs that nobody actually needs done in order to have an excuse to pay them?
Who cares about outsourcing if robots are cheaper than Indians or Chinese?
>>2959
The guy who studied STEM got mommy and daddy to pay for his college, is that not mooching? In any case, I know stoners that do alright all by themselves. Couple of them opened a store near me and keep it up pretty well. Besides STEM majors are self righteous pricks that think they're better than everyone else because muh math. When society crumbles they're gonna get killed off first for being pricks to us commoners.
>>2974
Reread the part about decision making skills and put effort into applying thought on how that can be beneficial to choosing a good elected official. Don't dodge or shy away from critical thinking. Embrace it.
>>2971
They're better than you because they take risk with an incredibly predatory type of loan, apply themselves towards learning a useful and needed trade, and put forth effort to sway their employers from not importing barely literate H1-B workers for half their wage that they desperately need to pay off their risky loan.
Meanwhile you sit there and expect all of that for yourself without any of the risk and effort. Of course they'll resent you.
>>535
Sweden has an declining, aging population of producers (ethnic Swedes) and a rising population of takers (migrants, children of immigrants). Not to mention the fact that their immigration policy has stacked their country with uneducated, unskilled, alienated young men with no attachment to the wider society and no interest in becoming culturally Swedish. Sweden's runaway success came because before the 1990s, it was culturally homogenous. Even Sweden's center parties are starting to realize that mass immigration is anathema to maintaining national integrity.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/sweden-asylum-seekers-refugees-policy-reversal.
Even if America had its 1950s demographics (88% white, 10% black, 2% other), the national character is incompatible with Swedish-style social democracy. Add in a country that's beginning to have massive race-based fractures and you've got a non-starter. Bernie Sanders is either delusional or just as much a manipulative liar as all the rest.
TL;DR cultural differences matter you dunderhead.
>>2991
>Reread the part about decision making skills and put effort into applying thought on how that can be beneficial to choosing a good elected official. Don't dodge or shy away from critical thinking. Embrace it.
More prejudice.
Give me numbers. Surely if they have better voting skills, then their voting habits must be very different. So, who do scholars vote for and who do uneducated people vote for?
Instead of a minimum wage hike we need to automate as much manual labor as we can, and then use a guaranteed minimum income system so that people can survive even if their skillset has been displaced by a robot.
>>3098
That would work if you could convince people that it's not communism.
>>3099
>Implying there's anything wrong with communism
I think people would like it
>>3101
>implying americans don't freak out at the faintest hint of left wing ideology
>>3101
Every time it's been tried it's ended up in a catastrophic failure.
>>3156
You like that word, eh?
>>422
>lets fix income inequality by giving people money that we dont have
If this man is president we are beyond fucked.
Between hoping that he can somehow squeeze and extra 18 trillion out of the healthcare economy and DUDE WEED LMAO he doesnt really have an actual plan.
He just wants to print money. It wont work.
>>715
>Trump/Carson
I'm afraid that one is out the window.
Carson loses more of his mind every debate and has earned the dislike of every other candidate, including Trump.
>>422
>supporting Trump
>supporting Bernie
I hate the Constitution as well. Especially that Rand Paul guy who wants to audit the IRS and end the Federal Reserve
>>3253
>there are people in this world that honestly support Trump over Rand
Rand is the only competent candidate, and no one seems to care about him because he's not completely pandering to the retarded masses.
>>535
What will Bernie actually do about immigrants?
Seems like trump is the better option to control them.
>>2950
>I'm not sure how possible it's to be so naive and gullible.
Wasn't it Keynes who suggested for the government to spend money in a times of economic crisis?
>>455
>believing America was ever a democracy
>>464
They said the same thing about Obama and he hasn't been assassinated.
>>663
My economics professor stated that this min wage rise would just make it harder for them to get jobs as min wage and so screw them over and everyone else.
>>3322
I like to think of it as a government subsidy for workplace automation.
>>3324
What happens when technology takes so many jobs and only scientist/engineer/technician is left?
>>3326
Scientists/engineers and technicians aren't safe either.
>>3327
What the fuck jobs are left holy shit.
>>3331
Barely any. Robots have even begun advancing into the arts.
Now, would you still like to hold on to our current economic model?
>>3332
Can we all commit mass suicide at that point?
>>3334
Why would you want that?
Death is preferable to a life in which you are not required to work?
But there is some time of troubles ahead of us. The world as we know it is going to fall apart. We can but hope that the time of chaos and anarchy will be swift.
>>3338
This is getting into utopia theorizing territory
>>3341
Which bit?
>>3344
What is the endgame with how society will be done if robots can do so much.
>>3346
I don't know. I doubt it will be a utopia.
All that I do know is that your work will no longer be required. Whether that means society considers YOU superfluous is a different story.
I like this thread. It is a good thread. Be sure to register as Democrats to vote for him in the Primary.
>>3352
Upvotes when
>>422
Just give the kids at McD's their $15/hr. Then give the rest of us $100/hr because no one wants to pay $10 for a fucking burger to cover their lazy ass wages.
>>470
>theory
Was proven in court. Do your research.
>>3332
>Robots have even begun advancing into the arts.
Goddamn it Miku
>>3405
Miku is just a singer.
I'm talking about robots writing music.
>>715
>I don't know shit about economics so I'll just say we can't afford it because I'm too lazy to go look up actual reasons
>>3410
Most of the posts in this thread are uninformed rants, and I won't exclude my own ones from that.
The problem is, as a layman, how are you going to recognize an expert's assessment?
>>3410
it isn't that you can't afford it. the rich have a lot of money. it is that short of making laws saying that they can't take their business elsewhere there is no way to keep the money flowing. doing that would be socialist and funnily enough, fascist as the only way it could conceivably work is if the companies etc belonged to the american government.
here is a funny thing though, minimum wage, free everything, more welfare, all the shit that bernie has promised is going to attract more people to those things and thus create a need for more money, meaning that the cost of living isn't just going to go up by 40% like it would if the minimum wage was raised (as evidenced by it already fucking happening in some states).
so in the end, people are either going to wind up paying the same amount for most shit (when you adjust for increased wages) only now they'll be living under fascist socialism or the wealth gap that currently exists is going to be multiplied by 9/11 times a million.
sounds pretty fucking great, right? i know that most of this is probably going over your fucking head because bernie promised you free shit but you need to take a fucking step back, stop thinking about your fucking self and start thinking about other people and future generations.
what kind of life do you want for them? the us is trillions in debt right now. stop being so fucking selfish and think of your country and the people who are going to grow up in it in the future.
do you want to wind up like greece? with 17 to 20 year old girls selling themselves on the streets for $2 for a half hour?
>>3437
>do you want to wind up like greece?
Greece isn't a self-inflicted catastrophe.
>>3438
it was for the people who voted socialist.
unless you want to blame germany, in which case you can blame china after you vote for sanders and the american dollar becomes fucking worthless.
honestly, american hegemony is what makes me think that america will most likely become fascist under sanders.
>>464
Are you shitting me?
You're looking at a man who will accrue more tax revenue than any other candidate... A man who wants to create or amplify a dozen entitlement programs that are ripe for misdirecting funds like Social Security Retirement did... A man who will make millions of Americans unapologetically dependent on the gubmint... And you think the gubmint isn't going to use every dirty trick in the book to get him elected?
The next election's going to end whichever party gets elected. Either Trump gets elected and his faux pas gets us into a war we can't handle, or Bernie gets elected and the tax burden destabilizes the working class currently struggling to meet the demands of federal taxation.
>>3440
>it was for the people who voted socialist.
They voted for leftwing extremists (and right wing extremists) only after their sovereignty as a country had unofficially ended.
It doesn't matter who's on the president-chair in Greece. Troika rules the country.
China doesn't have the same kind of leverage over America that Germany has over Greece.
>>3310
lol if you have a legit fear of immigrants. way to be insecure.
>>3447
what exactly is your point? that spending money is going to make everything hunky fucking dory?
do you seriously think that china is never going to have any leverage over america? especially with an economic policy that guarantees that at best, they'll never be able to pay denbts?
>>3450
>Never in American history has an entire race been nearly extinct by an immigrating people
I'm laffin
>>3443
>And you think the gubmint isn't going to use every dirty trick in the book to get him elected?
I don't.
In America, politicians kowtow to the candidate who is backed by their MONETARY supporters and their party. Hillary, so far, is the noncontroversial choice. Just look at her number of political endorsements at this time in the primary compared to previous primaries.
The Republicans have a difference, in that the party and the largest interests are not in sync. Jeb, the most sponsored candidate, has managed to be anemic enough to disinterest the growing chunk of populist reactionaries embeded in the party, which, depending on religious emphasis, favor either Trump or Carson. Rubio is the most ideal compromise in this situation, though he is far from a crowd pleaser until he is the only one left.
>>3453
My point? I was just correcting you on a minor detail. I do think that the current economy is going to fail and fail hard. 2008 crisis will be nothing against what's to come in 5 to 10 years. In fact, the 08 crisis was only delayed, it was never truly beaten.
>that spending money is going to make everything hunky fucking dory?
The lack of money flow is basically the problem. The question is, how do you get money flowing again.
>do you seriously think that china is never going to have any leverage over america?
I'd never claim that. They do have leverage. I was speaking of the degree of power. If they did have the same kind of leverage, then they would be eating the remains of America's carcass already.
>especially with an economic policy that guarantees that at best, they'll never be able to pay denbts?
You can't pay off your national debts. That's how money works. You will never be able to pay off your national debts, no matter what you do. You better give up on that idea.
>>476
That's not what the word "conspiracy" means. A conspiracy can be real and still called a conspiracy.
>>3461
He didn't say conspiracy, he said conspiracy theory.
If you're going to correct him, read his post better.
>>3454
tell us about how much smallpox you have
>>3458
>You can't pay off your national debts.
Well, in theory you could, by relocating your debts elsewhere.
The question is, what country would be retarded and rich enough to buy up all of America's debts?
No country.
Different currencies are also an effective protection for this. It could work in a territory with different countries sharing one currency, like Europe. But if you managed to heave all of Germany's debt (for example) onto the other countries, then those countries would all default, the Euro would die. So basically, it's not happening.
What you want is a controlled and slow increase in debt, as stupid as that sounds.
>>3332
Robots aren't sentient. What you mean is
>artists and robotics engineers have been designing robots that can potentially create art
>>3530
>Robots aren't sentient.
That's what they want you to think.
>>3443
>wants to take money away from corporations and give it to untermensch
Why WOULD the powers that be want him? The trillion dollar "politician industry" doesn't want to elect anybody who'd go against them, which means Bush and Clinton are the prime-time candidates for them.
>>3530
#SynthLivesMatter
>>3684
>Ayy yo
>whol up
>whol up
>all lives matter right
>but right nah
>right nah
>we focused on synth lives
>#SynthLivesMatter
>>3681
You're aware that the reason Social Security Retirement funds are no longer balanced is because they've been skimming off the top for years, hoping nobody would concern themselves with illegally feeding a black budget out of the single largest entitlement pool our country has claim to. More entitlement programs means these agencies have a larger margin to pilfer.
>>720
Hi /pol/
>>1331
>gives ppl who can't save for shit more money
>THEY FUCKING SPEND IT ALL
how is this hurting the economy?
>>6876
It could hurt the economy if our capacity for producing things hadn't long passed our capacity for consuming them.