England Considers "Opt-Out" Organ Donor Law (coming

Doctor here. The amount of mistrust in the medical profession these days is staggering. Son, brain dead is brain dead, anyone who's finished medschool can spot it. This "controversy" has been created by families who can't accept reality that cause media shitstorms.

You are right, a CORRECT brain death diagnosis really is "dead", and in fact the person's heart will stop within a short amount of time even on a respirator.

On the other hand people that have been MISDIAGNOSED as brain dead have in fact woken on, some while on the surgery table being prepped for organ donation. Since anesthesia is not used for brain dead donors even a 1 in a million chance of a "wrong diagnosis" would be absolutely horrific.

In addition there have been criminal cases where doctor's were charged for overdosing organ donors to induce cardiac death. One is being investigated right now in Los Angeles, even worse the L.A. Coroner's department is alleged to have covered up for fatal drug overdoses by not testing the autopsy blood of organ donors for ages. So if people mistrust the "medical community" they may have legit reasons. Article here: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-adv-organ-donation-20170612-story.html

>>165510
Have you been reading the chinese doctor shit? Anesthesia IS being used every time, at least in non-black market organ harvests.

>>165492
YouTube videos are not /news/

This whole discussion revolves around people having no idea what end of life care is. People die, all the time, it's normal. And since brain death is always pronounced by a team of experienced doctors (there are no organ harvests in small hospitals without serious ICUs) any alleged "misdiagnosis" seems like layman misunderstanding.

People have all sorts of coping mechanisms and strong reactions when loved ones die. A lot of them blame healthcare in some way or another. And we know how journalists (with their infinite medical knowledge) lap up that shit, slap on a big clickbait title and wham, you have a scandal.

Of course the Chinese are using anesthesia, they are killing live political prisoners. The "brain dead" donors in the US and Europe do NOT RECEIVE ANESTHESIA. Seriously just watch the video, there are about 60 federally licensed organ procurement organizations in the US and THEY turn out the surgical standards for harvesting, all of their manuals clearly state "anesthesia not needed". They do shoot them up with drugs to paralyze them though. Video has links to the official documents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZVo5O0W7VE

>>165514
>>165535
Jesus christ

If people are going to sign up as donors WITHOUT realizing what the medical and LEGAL implications are, even when others warn them to research the topic, then oh well. You were warned but you chose not to even research the topic.

The info is all out there, the states PUBLISH their laws on the topic but no one bothers to read them.

>>165535
How many of those procedures have you participated in? Because I have, in many, as an anesthesiologist, in Europe. Patients receive the same substances as any normal surgery. Same parameters are monitored, sometimes to an even greater degree, since these patients already have central lines and invasive BP installed. There is no pain response (analgesia is given prior to incision, obviously). Please stop spreading this misinformation.

>>165492
It should be illegal to opt out. Dead people do not need their organs.

>>165504
>The amount of mistrust in the medical profession these days is staggering.
Maybe that's because your entire business model relies on keeping people sick.

Heart disease?
High blood pressure?
Cancer?
Diabetes?


Do you know how to cure these diseases that plague us? No. You don't know anything but how to sell drugs.

I bet your dumbass doesn't even know that a plant based diet can REVERSE these diseases, because you won't hear that in medical school. Fuck you.

>>165542
Dead people don't need their organs, but the people MISDIAGNOSED as brain dead do! The patient in this article was OBVIOUSLY waking up, moving and breathing, and they STILL tried to harvest her organs! They even gave her a sedative AFTER she started waking up because they had the surgery planned shortly after. She woke up ON the operating table.

Or perhaps you think coma patients, or folks coming out of comas don't need their organs either? In fact they lied to her family AND falsified hospital records in order to harvest her organs.

The woman completely recovered and wasn't even brain damaged afterwards.


Patient Wakes Up as Doctors Get Ready to Remove Organs -- http://abcnews.go.com/Health/patient-wakes-doctors-remove-organs/story?id=19609438

>>165543
Wow. If you really believe that, good luck. Natural selection.

>>165551

People eat poison every day

We have health problems that are directly attributed to diet. For example, high blood pressure is caused by salt intake. Obviously we aren't supposed to be eating salt, since it slowly kills us.

But what does your doctor say, when you pay him for help?
>take this pill, keep paying me, and I PROMISE you'll get sicker forever.


Why not tell people that high blood pressure isn't a normal part of old age. The only way to be cured is to stop eating poison every fucking day.

>>165504
Why is diet our #1 killer?

Because doctors are corrupt

You need to read nutritionfacts.org and CURE PEOPLE ASS HOLE

>>165557
Either a troll or beyond all hope.

>>165558
Are you ignorant of the fact that diet is our #1 killer?

Is it not a doctor's job to cure easily curable diseases?

>>165540
Not sure what country you are in, but as stated, it is NOT used in the US, Japan, or many other countries.

But hey, look at articles posted by your own peers if you do not believe me. Last article includes accident victims that were STILL BREATHING being harvested without anesthesia.


Can 'Brain Dead' Donors Respond:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1353436/Can-brain-dead-donors-respond.html

Concerned Doctors Pressured to Stay Silent For Fear of Discouraging Organ Donations:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2000/10/25/national/why-do-some-doctors-anesthetize-brain-dead-patients/#.WVmt69ZtmDI


'Brain Dead' Patient Begins Breathing During Surgery After Liver Removed and Other Horrific Accounts:
http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=1946453

>Case 2

> The patient was declared brain dead by two physicians, and preparations were made to obtain vital organs for transplantation. Liver transplantation was planned for a level 1 recipient: an otherwise healthy 19-yr-old with hepatic dysfunction of unknown origin.

>The on-call anesthesiologist noted that the donor was intubated but breathing spontaneously with a tidal volume of 800 cm3and a respiratory rate of 20 breaths/min. When the anesthesiologist questioned the diagnosis of brain death, one of the declaring physicians reportedly stated that because the donor was not going to recover, he/she could be declared brain dead, and that in any case the liver recipient would die imminently without transplantation. Vital organ collection proceeded over the protests of the anesthesiologist, who observed donor movement and hypertension with skin incision that required treatment with thiopental and a muscle relaxant. The liver recipient died in another operating room of acute hemorrhage before liver collection was complete. The liver went untransplanted.

>>165557
>CURE PEOPLE ASS HOLE
sorry, but that's the proctologist's job.

>>165565
So funny I forgot to laugh

>>165559
Any good doctor will bring up diet control, you idiot.

But it's not the doctor's place to force people to switch. The patients are grown adults, capable of making decisions with consequences.

Don't complain about the minority of scummy doctors, complain about how irresponsible patients keep giving them money.

FYi for those that actually are interested in the current US laws on organ donation.

Once you have signed up as a donor most states allow a single doctor to diagnose you as brain dead/legally dead after just ONE rudimentary test. The moment that happens you become a cadaver and the organ procurement organization takes over your "management" until your organs are harvested.

That means if your family wants a second test run, or wants to wait a couple of days they are SOL. They have NO legal say regarding your health care whatsoever. Trusting strangers to accurately diagnose brain death when there is money to be made and "lives to be saved" is well....very trusting indeed.

Do folks really want the organ harvesters in charge of their health care after just ONE test? Especially after doctors have been charged criminally overdosing patients in order to harvest their organs? That isn't rumor, it is fact.

They have even expanded it in the case people that have NOT registered as a donor to allow unrelated "friends" to sign off on organ harvesting if you do not have family there to object and stop it. No vetting or legal requirement regarding these so called "friends", I am guessing anyone that visits the hospital may quality.

Read the law for yourself: http://www.uniformlaws.org/shared/docs/anatomical_gift/uaga_final_aug09.pdf

>>165578
Wonder if you would be such a blind militant citing anecdotal evidence if one of your loved ones was on a transplant waiting list.

>>165492
As someone who is an organ donor and all for it. Fuck this shit, no. You might be able to opt out but it is still taking away a bit of self-determination. Add to this the fact that, at least here in germany, we had some scandals surrounding several organ transplant facilities and it is a double nope. Yes, there should be done more to encourage people to become organ donors but at the same time there has to be absolute 100% guarantee that the highes ethical standards are applied at all times to the benefit of both the donor and the recipient equally. Simply classifying everyone as a donor without their consent is not ethical.

>>165580
Is it ethical to let people on waiting lists die? The dead person is dead. Doesn't care anymore. People on lists are alive, watching their hourglass draining.

>>165589
they are not entitled to another persons organs if the person does not want to consent you should honor their answer. Rape is illegal for a reason.

>>165591
Saving someone by giving away something you do not need anymore = rape. Yeah.

>>165592
Are you against property rights as well?
Consent is the issue and you clearly don't care about it.

>>165593
Nice argument. I'm against culling wolves too. Does that also count towards discrediting me?

>>165595
Dude if you don't want to talk anymore that is fine.

>>165575
>Any good doctor will bring up diet control
yes they will say
>maybe you ought to lose a few pounds
>eat less salt
>eat less saturated fat
>eat less POISON

REAL HELPFUL

How about you instruct people HOW to cure their diseases?

I know. Because they're ignorant and don't know how to cure what's killing us.

>>165597
Then if you're so concerned about knowing what doctors do and determined not to trust their advice, why don't you bite the bullet and go to medical school yourself instead of quacking on a Turkish basket-weaving forum? But of course, that would require you do actual medical work instead of shitposting, eh?

>>165589
What part of "brain death misdiagnosis" do you NOT UNDERSTAND???

The concern is over those that are NOT brain dead being diagnosed as such so their organs can be harvested while they are still alive, still breathing, possibly even conscious once the cutting starts with NO anesthesia!

Organs like hearts, lungs etc... can ONLY come from a breathing "brain dead" donor which is why 90% of organs are harvested from the brain dead, NOT the truly dead who's heart has stopped.