Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and one of the senior advisers in the Trump administration, was seeking a private communications channel with the Kremlin, according to a new report in The Washington Post.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/26/jared-kushner-wanted-secret-communications-channel-with-russia-new-report-alleges.html
>>143860
he wanted it in the backdoor from russia
>>143860
Thanks WashPost for being #1 Intel leaker
The "17 intelligence agencies" pap can be dismissed out of hand. They are paid to lie, and they have a long history of lying to us in particular. I'll believe RT's and Putin's take over American intelligence and MSM as they have proven to have trustworthy proofs.
>>143905
>us
>proofs
ok sergei
>>143906
I have no love for Putin but he is being unfairly scapegoated by the msm regardless of where the Russia story goes. But so far it goes nowhere, so why is the media pretending they have incontrovertible proof that doesn't exist? This is to deflect away from the real meddling which was the DNC meddling to give us Clinton which backfired to lose an 'unloseable' election. I would call this irony except I genuinely believe most of the DNC and likely many corporate democrats would rather have Trump than Sanders because corporate democrats and republicans are funded by exactly the same interests which see Trump as the ultimate worst case (because he would attempt to remove their source of power).
>>143907
Is it a per hour pay or per post pay?
>>143914
how does ctr/media matters/share blue post?
>>143907
Not a very convincing performance.
>>143907
i was actually implying you're working on the russian dime (kopek?), not that you're shilling for free out of some personal sense of loyalty.
>>143907
The political right has lost credibility on everything. You guys applaud folks for threatening and assaulting journalists, your news outlets fabricate stories with abandon, your presidential candidate can't go two sentences without contradicting himself, your candidates have been caught in innumerable bold faced lies that he gets visibly upset when called on it and you guys applaud this behavior, you just don't give a shit they half your supporters believe complete, indefensible nonsense.
You guys don't get everything you want, so you're going to kick and scream and threaten to tear up the constitution and our democracy. Well you can go eat a barrel of dicks. Republicans are in a competition to top themselves with who can be the most despicable and insufferable in this country. Whatever this monstrously corrupt and treasonous administration gets is too good for it, and there's nothing you guys can say or do to convince me to ever consider voting for anyone that calls themselves republican at this point.
>>143952
I was born in 1989. I have many issues with Democrats being too conservative on economic policy and too liberal or wasteful on social ones. I find them to be disingenuous, focused in the wrong direction, sanctimonious prudes and assholes, and ineffectual or mediocre in many aspects.
Still, in my lifetime, I've only witnessed abysmal leadership from the Republicans. Bush fucked up the global order and foreign trust with his adventurism (and also making any foreign action, no matter how wise or potentially necessary politically untenable), destroyed the trust in government that had been slowly rising since Nixon (which Obama didn't do anything to build), and oversaw the biggest economic downturn in recent history. Stability and competence are usually more important to many people then ideology (or used to be, we're in uncharted waters).
Now, we have Trump in office, and all the chaos and obvious, contradictory lying swirling around him. Look, if he wants to lie, at least keep it consistent like (Bill) Clinton, Obama, and Bush (mostly) did. Don't insult my intelligence by telling me five different stories over the course of one week. And even though they control most branches of government, the Republicans still can't pass shit because they're dysfunctional as all hell. At least Bush could mostly keep a handle on his own party.
If the Republicans keep fucking up, they're going to completely lose the millennial and under vote. Maybe they won't vote Democrat, as there are plenty of libertarian and conservative leaning millennials, but they certainly won't vote Republican. Like I said, we don't remember the golden age that was Reagan. We'll just remember Bush and Trump.
>>143966
I agree with you on everything but Reagan. Reagan was not a golden age, imo. In fact most of those issues can probably be traced not back to Reagan, but the overbearing desire to emulate his administration. Reagan has become a meme to Repub leadership.
>>143976
>Reagan has become a meme to [Republican] leadership.
I tend to refer to Reagan as Republican Jesus: if you replaced every mention of Reagan in a Republican's speech with Jesus, it would practically sound like Christian gospel. His legacy has become this impossible, nostalgically rosy standard that they all want to emulate but can't remember the actual details of, thereby failing to ever achieve that standard. He's become this almost legendary figure that every Republican wants to claim to be like. I've even heard some claim that Trump is a new Reagan, which is a comparison that I feel couldn't be further from the truth.
On the flip side, Democrats don't seem to have a Jesus/Reagan: nearly every modern leader has had some factor that keeps them from having a full rosy image. JFK comes the closest, but he's so far into the past that quite literally nobody under the age of 50 has first hand experience of JFK's presidency or immediate legacy (compare to only those under the age of 30 not having experience with the Reagan administration, and even then he was still alive for 15 years after that). I've heard some people claim that Obama is the Democrat's Reagan, but like the others I don't think there's a rosy enough picture of his presidency to have that same allure, maybe in the future the rose tinted goggles will warp how we remember him just like Reagan, but that's for the future to know.
>>143976
Diffrent anon . That is super true, ronny was the first to have huge defficit spending on weapons and arms and voodoo economics. Really the conservatives shouldnt have looked to him but the rockerfeller republicans.
>>143952
Seen through the eyes of a delusional liberal. No every problem in America today can be teased back to gained policies created by the Democrats.
>>143860
As usual, Trump's authoritarian followers will totally fail to grasp the severity of the accusations in that article.
Attempting to negotiate the opening of a secret communications channel with a hostile foreign government using that government's communications facilities and equipment to avoid monitoring by the US government or US intelligence agencies is--in and of itself--espionage, and a prima facie violation of the Logan Act.
If you want to get some idea of the gravity of what is being alleged in this article: Obama ordered the closure of the two Russian facilities that Kushner and Flynn suggested using for this secret communications channel and the expulsion of the Russian's stationed there from the United States within 30 days of this meeting between Flynn, Kushner and Kislyak taking place.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/29/politics/russia-sanctions-announced-by-white-house/
"The Russian diplomats and the two compounds, located in Maryland and New York, were engaged in intelligence activities but were not alleged to have been involved in the hacking related to the election, White House Homeland Security adviser Lisa Monaco told reporters. The moves are instead part of the US's comprehensive reaction to election-related hacking as well as recent harassment of US personnel in Russia.
"What these individuals were doing were basically collecting intelligence. They were intelligence officers operating here and using these compounds, one in New York, one in Maryland, for intelligence collection purposes," Monaco told CNN's Jake Tapper on "The Lead" Thursday. "And what we are saying today is, in response to and in order to impose consequences for the Russian government's increasing harassment and aggression toward our personnel in Moscow, and, of course, their malicious cyberactivities, interfering and an effort to interfere in our election process, we are imposing consequences.""
>>144174
A little further guidance into the seriousness of Jared Kushner's attempt to open a covert communications channel with a hostile foreign government from Malcolm Nance, a former U.S. Navy senior chief petty officer in naval cryptology, from a televised appearance on MSNBC:
>I’d like to put this into a better perspective for the audience, because I understand that, you know, everyone wants to be a little cautious about this. And we should be cautious about it — it needs to have the amount of respect that’s due, due to this breaking news.
>But had any individual, other than these individuals who worked immediately for President Trump, performed these actions at any time in the SF-86 security clearance process, they would have immediately had their clearances pulled. They would have had their jobs terminated. Some of these contacts are so suspicious that they would have warranted their own counterintelligence investigation. This nation is in a counterintelligence investigation. They are in a spy hunt over at the FBI, and now we have this story, should it prove true, of an American citizen who is the senior adviser to the president of the United States, attempting to establish what we call in the intelligence community “covert communications” with a hostile nation’s potential intelligence agency or senior leadership.
>That brings you — that crosses the line to the Espionage Act of 1917. This cannot be explained. Put aside the other 18 contacts with Moscow — this one incident requires Jared Kushner and all of his immediate staff to have their clearances pulled right now, and to have the FBI descend on there and to determine whether this is hostile intelligence in the White House, one step from the president.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKj-CH85xhk
>Former acting CIA director John McLaughlan on Friday responded to reports that President Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner discussed setting up a secret communications line between Trump's transition team and the Kremlin, saying if such reports are true, it would be considered espionage.
>"I don’t want to overstate this because obviously there is a lot we don’t know — we don’t know the exact content of the conversation. We don’t know the objective that was a part of the conversation — those things we don’t know," McLaughlan said on MSNBC's "The Last Word" Friday.
>"But I can’t keep out of my mind the thought that, if an American intelligence officer had done anything like this, we’d consider it espionage.”
>The president's son-in-law and senior adviser inquired about using Russian diplomatic facilities for the communications, apparently to shield the talks, U.S. officials briefed on intelligence reports told The Washington Post.
>Russian ambassador to the U.S. Sergei Kislyak told his superiors that Kushner floated the idea during a meeting at Trump Tower on Dec. 1 or 2, according to the Post, which cited intercepts of Russian communications reviewed by U.S. officials.
>Following the reports on Friday, the Democratic National Committee called for Kushner's immediate firing from his White House position.
>When asked what his first reaction would be if reports are proven true, McLaughlan said he'd ask himself, "is this a prank?"
>“[The reaction] would be kind of disbelief, because it’s not the sort of they think you would expect to happen in a normal transition," he said.
http://archive.is/RJvnL
>>143860
Your anti-Trump histrionics are tired. Seek psychiatric help.
>>143994
Obama may become DemoJesus as Trump's administration craters. Trump himself was a refutation of Obama - likewise, if ineptitude becomes tied to the anti-Obama meme, Obama becomes more respected. Doubly so when one takes into account Obama's actual ability to pass legislation was stifiled by obstructionist republicans- the exact same guys, exemplified by Mitch McConnell, that are incapable of governing right now.
>>144188
How much is the stuff youre smoking
>>143952
stop stereotyping people that don't suck up to the Democratic party
>>144189
Where did the post hurt your feelings?
>>144174
More liberal lies. Russia is not "hostile."
The notion that an incoming admin should not communicate with foreign governments until after the swearing in ceremony is typical liberal idiocy. Why would a foreign govt care what lame duck Obama had to say? They want to talk policy with the people who matter.
And of course they sought to establish secure rather than non-secure channels. Back channel communication is standard practice in diplomacy, and the reason the Cuban missile crisis didn't turn into a nuclear war.
The intelligence community shouldn't be spying on the president elect, especially when done primarily bc all the Russia intelligence experts don't want a thaw in relations bc then they are irrelevant and their dept budget gets slashed.
How many more elections will dems have to lose before you understand this fake news is being pushed by your party leaders who cant stop laughing that you are too stupid to hold them accountable for their disasterous failures over the past 6 years.
>>144200
I'll just quote the Logan Act at you, for starters, you unreconstructed Nazi:
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953
>>144201
>ran as the law and order candidate
>ignore inconvenient laws
Every
Goddamn
Time
>>144200
>And of course they sought to establish secure rather than non-secure channels.
Good of you to admit that Jared Kushner attempted to set-up a secret communications channel with Russia using Russian facilities and Russian equipment in order to conceal those communications from the American Government and the American intelligence agencies, because that is black letter a violation of the Espionage Act or 1917.
By the way, knowing about it and not turning the person in is black letter conspiracy or harboring under that same Espionage Act of 1917, so everyone in the White House who can be shown to have known what Jared did is ALSO guilty of Espionage.
>>144205
If the Trump campaign had already supposedly been in secret contact with the Russians over the course of the campaign, why would Kushner go to Srergie Kisliak (same dude who Flynn got in trouble for talking too, a friend to the Clintons) and ask him to set up secret communications?
Sounds like these overlapping stories have no real premise and are crumbling form their own weight
>>144201
The law that has been around for 200+ years and has never been used to prosecute a single person ever? Even in cases that resemble what you are pretending happened with the trump admin.
Learn statutory construction. You don't know how to read laws. The act does not apply in this situation at all.
I feel bad for you that you are seemingly genuinely invested in this excuse thread from dem leaders. Have fun continuing to lose elections.
>>144211
They were in such a rush to become traitors to their country for partisan political gain that several of them made overlapping deals with the Russians.
Luckily the NSA, CIA and FBI have all of these traitors ON TAPE so they won't be able to avoid justice without the open overthrowing of the republic.
>>144216
there are so many presumptions masquerading as facts embedded in this post that I keep losing count
>>144221
Communicating with a foreign government as a private citizen as Kushner did is a black letter violation of the Logan Act quoted here >>144201
And attempting to set up a secret communications channel with a non-allied foeign government using their facilities and equipment such that the foreign government could monitor and record those conversations but the US Government could NOT is a prima facie violation of the 1917 Espionage Act, and is absolutely NOT normal.
The Russians could monitor and record that secret channel but deliberately not the US Government. Even suggesting such an idea is treasonous.
>>144216
"They were in such a rush to become traitors, they made different deals with different Russians, none of which communicated with one another"
That's the dumbest theory on anything ever
>>144227
People still pushing the Russia conspiracy aren't very smart.
>>144226
That's not what Logan act says.
>>143952
Talk about projecting.
You have described in detail the demkcrat party in detail.
>>144226
Whatever correspondence which was proved to have happened does not meet the conditions of the following portion of the clause
>"with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States"
And that's a flawed interpretation of the already broad and outdated Espionage Act of 1917
>>144174
As usual the liberal left in their insane delusional crusade don't understand the law or what happened here.
This entire situation was about Syria and had nothing to do with Russian sanctions it also ipis not in violation of the Logan act because these talks didn't involve us policy on Russia with private citizens it involved the transition team of an incoming administration.
>>144185
Malcolm Nance is an incredible phone who pushes the conspiracy theories of lousie Mensch. He's bee. Screaming for months about the now debunked Russia collusion nonsense without any information.
>>144188
Obama was already voted the worst president in a recent poll. Once Obamacare and the rest of his legacy are smashed there won't be anything left to remember him by.
>>144192
When it makes the claim the Obama will be remember at all for anything other than being a negro. His only "accomplishment" was healthcare and that is Imploding in on itself.
>>144201
By your own definition kushner didn't violate the Logan act. His meeting didn't seek to "defeat the measures" of the united States. It was about future strategy in Syria.
You Marxists tried to use this to smear general Flynn and the FBI quickly killed that.
>>144203
No law violated. This Logan act doesnt apply to this.
>>144211
The neo Marxists can't keep their conspiracys straight. In a week this will be forgotten when the left arguments about this are shown once again to not violate any law.
>>144244
What poll?
>>144246
Doesn't matter. In comparison to Bush and especially Trump, he will be put on a pedestal for not being an utter moron. His actual achievements don't matter, it is the comparison to his contemporaries that will lift him for those in living memory and, inevitably, those who read history books in the future.
Also it is quuite rude to use the term "negro."
>>144250
I feel like the Democrats are just throwing stories to the wind to see what sticks
Did you see the interview with CNN and the Congressman who suggested their be an investigation on the DNC servers? They nearly pissed themselves on air. I've never seen an anchor stutter so much
https://youtu.be/BtRRcl_ufbQ
>>144303
Haha, holy shit
>there's stuff "swirling on the internet" that it was an inside job
>But I don't believe theFBI and the CIA who say there are things worth investigating about the Trump capaign's possible collusion, that's a witch hunt.
The reporter starts stuttering at the point where he suggests an inside job due to internet rumors, because it surpises him that a congressman takes that seiously. At the point where he mentions an investigation into the servers, they just seem disappointed in him.
>>144325
I think the point was if the DNC wants an investigation on loose evidence, annonymous reports, and rumors then their should be an investigation on the DNC server to make sure if it was really Russians or an insider, and they got all flustered and started stammering
>Obama appointed former CIA and shamed FBI directors say no evidence, but suspicions...
Color me surprised
>>144248
>"Kushner spoke with Ambassador Sergey Kislyak about creating that line of communication to facilitate sensitive discussions aimed at exploring the incoming administration's options with Russia as it was developing its Syria policy, according to a person familiar with the discussions who spoke with The Associated Press.
>The intent was to connect Trump's chief national security adviser at the time, Michael Flynn, with Russian military leaders, said this person, who wasn't authorized to publicly discuss private policy deliberations and spoke on condition of anonymity.
>Russia, a pivotal player in Syria, has backed Syrian President Bashar Assad, often at the expense of civilians during a long civil war."
http://archive.is/kSaWX
OH! You mean it was about seeking to, without the authorization of the US government, to influence Russian and future US strategy on Syria? Yeah, that's totally a black letter violation of the Logan Act, not to mention that trying to set up a secret backchannel to the Kremlin that could be monitored and recorded by the Russian government but NOT the US Government to discuss CURRENT AND FUTURE US AND RUSSIAN MILITARY STRATEGY in Syria is black letter in violation of the Espionage Act of 1917.
Jesus Christ, that the purpose was to discuss U.S. and Russian strategy in Syria makes it WORSE not better.
>>144360
I thought they already had a line of communication, how else did they coordinate the campaign with Russia like the DNC said they did
>>144349
Can you cite or otherwise explain what you mean by "the DNC wants an investigation"?
>>144241
what you say? Grammar not functional in your post.
>>144363
>"The intent was to connect Trump's chief national security adviser at the time, Michael Flynn, with Russian military leaders, said this person, who wasn't authorized to publicly discuss private policy deliberations and spoke on condition of anonymity."
Try reading next time.
This was to set up a secret back channel between Flynn and Russian military leaders, which would be separate from any ongoing lines of communication with Russian intelligence, in the same way that talking to the U.S. Army is not the same thing as talking to the CIA, as they are separate branches of government.
>>144373
But if the initial communication line is secret, why didnt they just use the secret line to set up a new line instead of asking the Russian ambassador
>>144379
Because I don't think anyone is stupid enough to make a request of the Kushner did to Kislyak over the phone, where the very intelligence agencies you were trying to hide from would be absolutely guaranteed to hear it.
Hell, the articles about this note that U.S. Intelligence agencies found out about it because they intercepted Kislyak's communications about it to his own government.
That Obama ordered the closure of the exact two Russian facilities Kushner suggested using and the expulsion of their staff from the United States within 30 days of the meeting should give you some sense of the kind of alarm bells this set off.
>>144393
So they had a secure secrety line but used a less secure line to an ambassador (in the US) so he could relay the info to Russia using an arguably even less secure secrety line that the NSA would probably intercept
And they could have just used the first secrety line and call them directly
Do either A. There was no first secret line (Russia narrative bullshit)
Or B. There was no second line (this story is bullshit, ergo validity of previous stories called into question)
Or C. I'm smarter than anyone in the Whitehouse
So I'm sure undeniable concrete evidence will come out that Trump was illegally collaborating with the Russians this whole time.
Yep, any day now I'm sure of it.
>>144407
As I'm sure you very well know, there is a big difference between a line of communication between Trump campaign officials and Russian officials that was not publicly acknowledged and might be secret from Obama administration officials, and one that is secret from the U.S. intelligence agencies and encrypted against their ability to monitor.
Note that Kislyak's communications with Moscow would certainly have been encrypted and it's only because the NSA's voodoo that they were able to intercept and decrypt Kislyak's communications with Moscow, and as a result that they discovered what Kushner and Flynn were trying to negotiate with Kislyak.
It would have set off MASSIVE alarm bells at the NSA, by the way.
>>144703
You can't just fiction logic freestyle your theories into reality
>>144721
There is no freestyling going on.
The Fox News article says:
>"Kislyak allegedly then relayed the suggestion to his superiors in Moscow. The idea was supposedly broached during a meeting between Kushner and Kislyak during an early December meeting at Trump Tower.
>That was based on intercepts of Russian communications that were reviewed by U.S. officials"
If you think Kislyak is talking to his superiors in Moscow over an unencrypted communications channel, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. It is one of the most basic principles of spycraft that as an agent of a foreign government you must assume all of your communications in the U.S. over clear (i.e. unencrypted channels) are being monitored by U.S. intelligence agencies.
It is axiomatic that Kislyak would have been using what he believed to be a secure communications channel to report to his superiors in Moscow. For U.S. intelligence agencies to intercept those communications can only mean they found a way to compromise that communications channel (because otherwise they wouldn't know what Kislyak said).
It is also obvious that the two Russian facilities in the U.S. Kushner and Flynn suggested using would have had communications facilities to the Russian government that were also encrypted using Russian encryption to try and protect them from interception by U.S. intelligence agencies. In fact, the article explicitly says so:
>Kushner and Sergei Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to Washington, spoke of the possibility of coordinating a secret and secure communications channel between the Trump transition team and the Kremlin
That's what they mean by "secure", that the line would be encrypted.
...TBC
>>144721
>>144738
>The Post said Kushner suggested the use of Russian diplomatic facilities as a way to shield pre-inauguration discussions with Kislyak from monitoring.
Since it's obvious the Russian government would be able to monitor this communications line (as it is literally theirs), they can only mean they wanted to shield the discussion from monitoring by American intelligence agencies.
>Kislyak reportedly was taken aback by the suggestion of allowing an American to use Russian communications gear at its embassy or consulate — a proposal that would have carried security risks for Moscow as well as the Trump team.
http://archive.is/LYZXj
This is one of the reasons Kislyak would be "taken aback" at the suggestion, as it would mean allowing Kushner and Flynn access to those Russian encryptec communications facilities with the Russian government, which would have been seen as a security risk from Kislyak's perspective. Well that, and the fact that it would likely be considered espionage if the arrangement were discovered.
And yes, trying to gain access to Russian encrypted communications facilities to communicate with the Russian military about U.S. and Russian military strategy in Syria on a channel the Russian government could monitor and record but that U.S. intelligence agencies could not (they assumed) would be considered Espionage.
It is difficult to overstate how many alarms this would have set off at the NSA when they discovered the plot by intercepting Kislyak's communications with his superiors in Moscow.
>>144738
Allegedly
Perhaps
Supposedly
Annonymous
Insider
Reportedly
Maybe