E.P.A. Chief, Rejecting Agency’s Science, Chooses Not to Ban

>“We need to provide regulatory certainty to the thousands of American farms that rely on chlorpyrifos, while still protecting human health and the environment,” Mr. Pruitt said in his statement. “By reversing the previous administration’s steps to ban one of the most widely used pesticides in the world, we are returning to using sound science in decision-making — rather than predetermined results.”

>The United States Department of Agriculture, which works close with the nation’s farmers, supported Mr. Pruitt’s action.

>“It means that this important pest management tool will remain available to growers, helping to ensure an abundant and affordable food supply for this nation,” Sheryl Kunickis, director of the U.S.D.A. Office of Pest Management Policy, said in a statement Wednesday.

>Dow Agrosciences, the division that sells the product, also praised the ruling, calling it in a statement “the right decision for farmers who, in about 100 countries, rely on the effectiveness of chlorpyrifos to protect more than 50 crops.”

>But Jim Jones, who ran the chemical safety unit at the E.P.A. for five years, and spent more than 20 years working there until he left the agency in January when President Trump took office, said he was disappointed by Mr. Pruitt’s action.

>“They are ignoring the science that is pretty solid,” Mr. Jones said, adding that he believed the ruling would put farm workers and exposed children at unnecessary risk.
...

>The ruling is, in some ways, more consequential than the higher profile move by Mr. Trump on Tuesday to order the start of rolling back Obama administration rules related to coal-burning power plants and climate change.

>In rejecting the pesticide ban, Mr. Pruitt took what is known as a “final agency action” on the question of the safety and use of chlorpyrifos, suggesting that the matter would not likely be revisited until 2022, the next time the E.P.A. is formally required to re-evaluate the safety of the pesticide.

>Mr. Pruitt’s move was immediately condemned by environmental groups, which said it showed that the Trump administration cared more about catering to the demands of major corporate players, like Dow Chemical, than the health and safety of families nationwide.

>“We have a law that requires the E.P.A. to ban pesticides that it cannot determine are safe, and the E.P.A. has repeatedly said this pesticide is not safe,” said Patti Goldman, managing attorney at Earthjustice, a San Francisco-based environmental group that serves as the legal team for the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Pesticide Action Network of North America, which filed the petition in 2007 to ban the product.

>The agency had been under court order to issue a ruling on the petition by Friday. The environmental groups intend to return to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco to ask judges to order the agency to “take action to protect children from this pesticide” Ms. Goldman said on Wednesday.

Meh. Some hicks could get sick and years down the line if their kids develop ass cancer I'm sure they'll be comforted knowing Dow's profit's weren't hurt.

At this point I've stopped caring what happens to flyover farmers. You've made your bed, now lay in it.

>>127063
Yeah same, finishing up college and already have a cushy job lined up, I'm done fighting and voting for inbred plebs.

>>127059
Scott Pruitt, public enemy #1

>>127063
>>127120
Stop acting like you ever gave a shit about poverty you elitist faggots
Enjoy your superiority complex while it lasts

>>127140
Hey Cletus are you posting this on the latest iPhone your dumbshit parents bought you instead of paying for things like school or fixing your dilapidated house? Enjoy it man, if you were right about Trump and the Republicans I won't be spending another taxpayer dime on you or your millions of inbred cousins. Go get kicked by a mule and die white trash hillbilly.

>>127141
I'm not even an American you dipshit
Just someone that finds your empty posturing about caring for the poor laughable compared to your actual opinion

It is more efficient to genetically engineer the crops to taste bad to their predators. I'm getting tired of lazy human innovation. Well, genetic engineering is even lazier, but you know what I mean. Blanketing an area with a chemical? SURELY MUST BE HARMLESS

>>127165
You do realized that the pesticide/herbicide industry relies on such chemicals; which is why Scotty here made a decision to deregulate all forms of chemicals to keep them in business.

https://www.mailman.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/prenatal-exposure-insecticide-chlorpyrifos-linked-alterations-brain-structure
>The study also reports evidence that CPF may eliminate or reverse the male-female differences that are ordinarily present in the brain. Further study is needed to determine the consequences of these changes before and after puberty, the researchers say.
Mother of God, this is why they killed it. It's is a latent weapon in the gender war and they're trying to create more brain damaged trannies.

>>127129
Whoever liberals declare "public enemy" is guaranteed to be a good person.

>>127177
Today's republicans ladies and germs

No opinions of their own, besides whatever generates liberal years.

Stand up and defend Pruitt's decision you fucking dunce

>>127164
Not who you're replying to but hi Russia.

...wasn't one of the main reasons they decided to ban this chemical due to the fact that it was one of the major causes of bees dying out? Isn't keeping bees around a hell of a lot more important for agriculture than some shitty pesticide that has a bunch of health risks involved anyway?

>>127059
>E.P.A. Chief, Rejecting Agency’s Science, Chooses Not to Ban Insecticide

>farmers comlain that their land turn into chemical waste area

lol.. GOOD LUCK AMERICANS!!

>>127267
Oh shut up. Obama was dumping chemicals in the water to turn the wildlife gay, and that was fucking up the ecosystem too.

>>127270
Don't blame Obama because you like sucking cocks fag.

>>127203
I like how liberal predictably is somehow my fault.

The tears are just a bonus

>>127274
What would you know about liberals? Did the twitter liberals outrage you again?

>>127164

10 rubles have been deposited into your account.

>>127203
It's a sad state of affairs, but more and more often the left has been going after people who deviate even slightly from their own political notions. Not defending Pruitt because I seriously question the decision he made, but I'm certainly under a very poor impression of the left in general these days.

>>127292

More like a tactic of the right to point out the idiocy of the alt-left, so in turn the general populace simultaneously casts the "what a bunch of lunatics" umbrella over anyone who votes Democrat and tries to disassociate with them.

>>127292
>implying SJWs are leftist
Anon, they're a blatant attempt to derail actual leftists who are sick of the rich fucking over everyone else. They're corporate shills who try to draw attention away from economic issues, they're pretty much the opposite of leftists.
Sadly some people fell for the bait and now we have a bunch of retarded reactionaries who can't stop sucking the dicks of wall street fatcats.

>“We need to provide regulatory certainty to the thousands of American farms that rely on chlorpyrifos, while still protecting human health and the environment,” Mr. Pruitt said in his statement. “By reversing the previous administration’s steps to ban one of the most widely used pesticides in the world, we are returning to using sound science in decision-making — rather than predetermined results.”
What in the ever loving fuck does "rather than predetermined results" even mean? Do all of Trump's recommendation all use the single inept speech writer or do they all have a telekinetic connection to Trump's dumpster fire of a brain?

>>127296
>>127300
Nice tinfoil hat you got there

>>127301
He saying, rightfully, that we can't trust EPA "science".

>>127302
SJWs are all pretty much rich kids who delight in punching down on the poor. They're often the liberals you see who are defending our current economy and saying that the poor deserve what they're getting (unless they're a minority). They don't ever actually focus on the systemic issues shitting up our society, just the superficial ones. They're useful idiots, much like the alt-right is for conservatives, as their identity politics poisons discussion and their valuing of ideals over results leads to nothing getting done.

>>127059
that's pretty shitty, those farmers and their kids don't deserve that

>>127266
>>127289
God you people are so fucking retarded
Everything bad is Russia, it's like the Red Scare all over again but this time the commies are the ones being morons

>>127317
What do you expect? It's /news/.

>>127324
You should have told Trump that before his people actively sought Russia's help in winning the electoral college.

>>127330
Case in point.

>>127334
Thanks for finally understanding that Trump won thanks to Russia. I wish more replublicans can drop the bias for at least two seconds so they can see that we're literally being invaded by Russian spies.

>>127418
RUSSIA MUST HAVE HACKED MY PANTS CAUSE I GOT A HUGE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VICTORY FOR YOU IN MY PANTS GIRL
Do you even noticed how retarded you sound right now?

>>127419
Hurr durr I'm just going to ignore all the leaks and bury my head in the sand. Haha screw them city slickers right?

No wonder there is so much divide in this country. It's literally impossible to get along to with anyone who votes for a man because he was made into a bunch of memes.

>>127422
>nytimes

>>127422
> leaks
literally what? Even the House Intelligence Committee said there's no evidence of anything, the FBI ain't got shit too. The only thing you got is circumstantial "evidence" and your delusional conspiracy theories. How is the tinfoil helmet going by the way?

>>127422
I voted for him because I actually like him and his policies , so cut the holier-than-thou attitude Mrs.

>>127422
Where is the proofs? Are you afraid now since Trump is going to drone your ass and bring you libtard city down?

>>127422
https://www.infowars.com/intelligence-hearing-reveals-no-trump-russia-connections/

https://www.infowars.com/fbi-admits-trump-has-no-russian-ties/

https://www.infowars.com/no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-campaign-russia/

How does it feel that your ridiculous conspiracy is all smoke and mirrors? The democrats have been trying to bring down Trump with this ridiculous shit, because they know if they focused on his policy, they'd get destroyed. He's already had to let go of a couple of great men who they've dragged through the mud because of their witch-hunt. Really though, it's because the democrats, controlled by Clinton, want to start a world war with Russia. Why else do they love NATO, Ukraine, and Europe so much when all they do is try to get us involved against Russia?

Also, Clinton had more ties to Russia then Trump did. How's that for hypocrisy?

https://www.infowars.com/dems-have-more-ties-to-russia-than-trump/

>>127439
>>127436
>>127426
Read the news, geniuses. More proof comes out every day.
>>126914
>>126945
>>126807
>>126359
>>126299

>>127443
It's all fake proof. How do you know these people weren't invented whole sale by the media to discredit Trump?

>>127443
> proofs
Sure thing honey bun.

>>127442
Thanks, Alex. Now go back to >>>/pol/ with your shit-tier tinfoilfag sources.

>>127445
>if I ignore the proof some more maybe it will go away!
Do you think this will work?

>>127447
Washington Post and Buzzfeed aren't proofs friend.
Neither is CNN.
The tinfoil hat must be smelling by now huh

>>127449
If you don't like mainstream newssources then get the hell off this board.

Also, nobody brought up buzzfeed but you. It's the left's equivalent of Breitbart.

>>127443
>More proof comes out every day.
More threads are made everyday- all pretty much the same person and admitted Federal gov employee shill spamming loads of fake ne-, sorry, propaganda in the form of anonymous sources, circumstantial evidence, and appeals to the authority of the morally bankrupt IC community

Empirical proof however still remains to be seen.

>>127450
>If you don't like mainstream news sources then get the hell off this board.
No one's buying the propaganda.
No one has.
No one will.
Give up, resign, apologize to your supervisor for your failure.

>>127453
We all know that the IC is going bye bye. Soon, they'll be no more spies in the US, because the IRS, FBI, NSA, and CIA will be completely disbanded.

>>127453
Do you ever get tired of being on the sinking ship telling everyone that everything is fine and there is nothing to see here? The more this administration tells people not to look into this and tries to divert it into being about leaks instead of the content of the leaks, the more guilty as hell the implicate themselves as being. I'd say it's Nixonian but that's insulting Nixon.

>>127463
>Do you ever get tired of being on the sinking ship telling everyone that everything is fine and there is nothing to see here?
Do you ever get tired of having to invent new methods of waging ideological arguments with strangers on the internet because you have repeatedly been unable to come up with any real evidence?

>The more this administration tells people not to look into this and tries to divert it into being about leaks instead of the content of the leaks, the more guilty as hell the implicate themselves as being.
Maybe because the content of the leaks has been the same circumstantial obfuscated anonymous source garbage that it's been since the very beginning and instead of actually trying to defend it, you're left with nothing but accusing anyone who doesn't accept it as fact as all being either Trumpkins or Russian shills. In reality, most people have simply tuned out the constant flow of mainstream propaganda that has you so enamored and so eager to swallow the IC communities load.

>I'd say it's Nixonian but that's insulting Nixon.
Let us know when you have some of the non-circumstantial and directly incriminating evidence that brought Nixon down.
Also, remember how a few weeks ago you were screaming about Nixon being a beacon of transparent government because he started the tradition of releasing tax returns?

When the Russian narrative falls apart just like the tax return narrative, be sure to remember in excruciating how much effort you've put into selling your bullshit for for such little gain.

>>127463
How do you account for all the evidence of Clinton baking child prostitutes into pizzas to finance her campaign? Also this:

>On Jan. 23, 2016, I exposed Hillary Clinton’s ties to the Russian State in an article titled, “Clinton Foundation took massive payoffs, promised Hammond Ranch and other publicly owned lands to Russians along with one-fifth of our uranium ore,” in which I prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sold out approximately one-fifth of the United States’ uranium supply to the Russians using a Canadian proxy. Not only did she facilitate deals to offload the valuable ore to the Russians but she also sold out ranchlands in Oregon which Lavoy Finnicum gave his life to protect during the infamous Malheur Wildlife Refuge standoff. The story was covered extensively by Infowars’ Lee Ann McAdoo and Jon Rappoport on a Jan. 29, 2016, broadcast.

>>127468
>How do you account for all the evidence of Clinton baking child prostitutes into pizzas to finance her campaign?
I tell you you're a tinfoilfag and to go back where you belong.
>>>/pol/

>>127467
Boy the denial is thick with this one. It's going to be hard on you to see Trump and Reince and the gang frogmarched out of the white house coming up here soon.

>>127467
What's so wrong with being friends with Russia? Why are liberals so opposed to us dropping NATO like hot shit and cozying up with Putin?

>>127063
>>127120
What, do you think that stuff just gets magically removed from the fruits and vegetables they're used on? You're going to be eating more and more toxic chemicals in your daily meals if you don't push to get the things regulated.

>>127470
>Boy the denial is thick with this one.
I'm not the one with increasingly truncated posts with less attempts at addressing points in an argument.

You have no evidence.
When pressed, you deflect.
When pressed further, you ad hom and shift goal posts.
When pressed further, histrionic strawmen like >>127468 pop up just in time to derail the thread and for you tell them to go back to /pol/. >>127471 This one too I'm sure is just as "genuine"

In a week, when there's still no evidence, and your supervisor is threatening your job security because you still haven't convinced anyone with your daytime TV tier propaganda, don't blame anyone but yourself for not swallowing the patently obviously lie.

>>127473
You can always just do the research yourself and choose to buy from another vendor. If a vendor or store poisons its customers, it'll soon be out of business as other vendors take over its turf.

>>127475
No, I'm genuinely curious. NATO and Europe are failing, and Russia can be a much better ally. They're also, culturally, anti-globalist and conservative compared to the EU which are a bunch of globalists cucks. You think Hillary is bad, imagine a nation where ALL the politicians are Hillary and that's Europe. Putin is an intelligent and smart leader, and the US can learn a lot from him. The biggest benefit though is that it stops a nuclear war with Russia from happening. Another benefit is that Russia will be less critical of us when we want to rough up Mexico for shipping illegals over here, bomb the Palestinians out of Israel, or slap Canada when it starts trying to undercut our pharmaceutical market.

>>127482
You're not fooling anyone.

the people who are dying because of this are the brown people who come from south america and live worse than slaves did. you liberals pretending you care about the workers are a joke.

if anything this is a good pro-trump policy because it's going to poison and harm illegal immigrants. not only does it allow the white farm owners to keep production but it may also kill the illegals after they're finished being useful.

>>127483
And nobody can still say why having friendly relations with Russia is a bad thing. Shows you how the anti-Russian narrative amounts to nothing. Trump isn't a Russian puppet, he hasn't made any moves to drop sanctions, but even if he and Putin were best friends, so what? How is being on good terms with a great power like Russia a bad things?

>>127477
>>127473
In fairness the industry regulation on "Certified Organic" labelling includes strict limits on use of pesticides -- what kind, where, and how much. Organic also has tangential benefits when you buy from growers outside the country in that it makes agriculture profitable there, instead of forcing people overseas who might want to export to compete against the heavily-subsidized first-world non-Organic markets, or worse, who are flooded with subsidized Western imported food.

I used to be kinda against Organic as a fad that was flooded with disinformation that was potentially damaging, but the economic benefits and positive externalities seem to be keeping such concerns in check for now -- as long as you focus on Organic growers for imported shit in particular.

>>127473
It's the dose of the stuff that makes something poisonous or not. The amount of residue left on produce is very tiny and your body is really good at filtering out toxins. It's also why you wash your fruits and vegetables before using them. You would have to eat 2600 strawberries in a day to poison yourself with these substances for instance. The reason it's an issue for farmers is they are exposed to way more of it.

>>127490
Even though the pesticides are "organic" doesn't mean that they're still safe. Wolf attacks are organic, cobra venom is organic.

>>127487
Read a newspaper, junior.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/01/09/why-russia-cannot-become-our-friend-memo-to-president-trump/#464f98b17cda

>>127495
>Read a newspaper, junior.
>posts Opinion article on a website

O I m laffin

>>127500
Just stop pretending like Russia dindu nuffin and you'll be fine.

>>127492
Jesus christ learn to fucking read. Or at least tell me English is your second language?

>>127503
>Russia dindu nuffin
No one said they dindu nuffin. They just didn't do what you think and believe they did, again, given the complete and total lack of evidence. Welcome to reality sweaty.

>>127487
Because America is powerful enough we don't have to be any more than terse acquaintances with fascist governments that assassinate journalists and try to undermine democratic nations for their own gain. Speaking for myself, I don't want a war with any country, even North Korea, but the alternative to having close ties isn't world war three, and I think you're just using the false threat of that to bolster your deluded position that it would somehow be a good thing that America was allied with Putin of all people. Once again, it's nothing against the Russian people, but Putin has shown no evidence he can be trusted, and is anything more than a corrupt dictator.

>>127508
>The news is lies!
>Welp, you've got no evidence since the news is lies.
This is what you sound like. You're clearly on the wrong board.

>>127510
I disagree with you, but at least you can say something instead of calling me a faker.

>>127512
When did he even do that?

>>127443

Ummm, I couldn't help but notice that you seem to be speaking from a position of privilege. Russophobia is the real problem here. Russian women and children don't have access to the kinds of opportunities that we in the west take for granted, but by repeatedly focusing on russian "hackers" and "spies", you're denying the personal experiences of real russian people, who are themselves most often the victims of russian cyberterrorism. The vast majority of russians are peaceful, hard-working people that just want a better life and by denying them access to our infrastructure, you're perpetuating a white hegemonic system of structural violence against an underprivileged minority class. Please, examine your own racial biases before discussing this highly sensitive topic. Try to show a little empathy.

>>127059

Fuck yo bees

>>127540
Racists BTFO

We should dump insecticide on the cities, cause America has a bit of a pest problem.

>>127510
>>127495

>Assange: In Russia, there are many vibrant publications, online blogs, and Kremlin critics such as [Alexey] Navalny are part of that spectrum. There are also newspapers like ‘Novaya Gazeta’, in which different parts of society in Moscow are permitted to critique each other and it is tolerated, generally, because it isn’t a big TV channel that might have a mass popular effect, its audience is educated people in Moscow. So my interpretation is that in Russia there are competitors to WikiLeaks, and no WikiLeaks staff speak Russian, so for a strong culture which has its own language, you have to be seen as a local player.

seem as if you posts are this CIA plant that other talk of.

>>127567
/pol/tard or falseflagger, I don't care. You people are the reason why America is so dysfunctional.

>>127569
>quoting wikileaks
>to defend Russia

>>127573
There is no evidence that wikileaks has a pro Russian agenda.

>>127586
What I've learned from Wikileaks is that we must get rid of our intelligence agencies, and make all government information/communication open to the world. Any secret, white house communique, all the way down to when the President shits should be public knowledge. That is the only way to guarantee our freedoms.

>>127588
Amen

>>127171

Trump has always been pro-LGBTQ2SAA+-*/Logarithm(Tangent (z)) community.

>>127573
>>quoting wikileaks
>>to defend Russia

>trying to force this meme

>>127443
Honest question. Do you know a single person who flipped their vote to Trump after learning all the shit about Hiliary? Because for all the hacking, not one shred of evidence has come out that they successfully changed the voting machine outcomes.

>>128210
Nobody ever claimed they hacked the voting machines. That's a diversionary tactic first put forth by talking heads on AM radio to distract from the meat of the issue, which is russian meddling.

Here's a right wing source which describes what the russians really did. It had nothing to do with vote rigging.
http://nypost.com/2017/03/30/how-russian-bots-try-to-sucker-trump-on-twitter/

Here's more of what the Russians did:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

>>128212
Which reinforces my original question.

They spread trolls on the internet.
They hacked certain parties/candidates and dumped info out for all to see.

But for all of that, have you heard of anyone claiming it affected their finial choice? I don't doubt the evidence put forth so far about meddling, its the effectiveness I question.

>>128216
Look at the vote totals in the rust belt states Trump won which put him over the edge:

Wisconsin: 27,257 votes out of 2.9 million votes cast.
Michigan: 11,837 votes out of 4.8 million votes cast.
Pennsylvania: 68,236 votes out of 6.9 million votes cast.

The margins are small enough to have been influenced by the russian propaganda. The margin is smaller than what all the third parties received (people who protest voted against both Hillary and Trump). If even half of Jill Stein's voters weren't influenced by russian propaganda and voted for Hillary instead in those three states then there would be 2 Clintons in the white house right now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/swing-state-margins/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Wisconsin,_2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Michigan,_2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2016

>>128219
>The margins are small enough to have been influenced by the russian propaganda.
Based on what evidence anon?

>>128222
Trump's own administration admits it,, Anon. Where have you been?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/02/us-ambassador-haley-no-question-russia-meddled-in-election.html

>>128223
What evidence did they use to show these voters voted this way due to the Russians? Also I have been busy anon I don't always have time to read every facet of every story

>>128224
Give it a rest, anon. Literally the best social scientists in the US armed with the most sophisticated surveys and public opinion polls have unequivocally proven that Russian propaganda gave Drumpf the vote.

>>128225
Okay I just don't like trusting someone without evidence it just seems the same as faith i.e religion which is bad.

>>128226
Never mind Trump, I mean that's bad enough, but the added insult to injury when you hear people like Paul Ryan or some other gerrymandered Congressman say "The American People have spoken and asked for [insert token neocon party position they've had since Reagan here] !!!"

>>128235
I agree anon it is annoying, oh well.

>>128235
>"The American People have spoken and asked for [insert token neocon party position they've had since Reagan here] !!!"
The OPs EPA case is a prime example of this. The EPA is supposed to protect consumers. Nobody asked for that pesticide to be deregulated except DowChemical.

>>128204
We should be paying wikileaks for the services they're doing. They're showing that Western democracies are failed institutions and only benevolent dictatorships or monarchies work.

>>128239
Haha, no

>>128237
Nobody likes the EPA though.

>>128902
I like the EPA. They provide a necessary service, as much as police force, but they're constantly attacked since voters can easily be convinced the environment is a non-consequence until some disaster occurs like Katrina or Flint.

>>128997
>They provide a necessary service, as much as police force
I sure can remember the last time I was robbed by a fucking tree.

>>129002
That's a good one.

>>128997
>Katrina
The fault of the government for not maintaining the dams.


>Flint
More government incompetence...

So whats your solution?

MORE GOVERNMENT MWAHAHA

>>127140
>>127164
Bitch the liberals were the only ones to give a shit about the poor. The republicans just told you people that they cold pour your tax dollars into CEOs pockets and magically make you rich, and they told you that ecological regulations would kill business and if you let them do whatever they wanted then everything would turn out all right. You bought their lies and it didn't work. You are still poor and now your land is poisoned while the liberals told you that this is exactly what would happen, and now that you fucked up you could either take some responsibility for yourself or blame the "smug liberals".

>>129031
you realize that liberals do the exact same thing except the tax dollars go into different CEOs pockets, right?
-not a trump drone

>Chlorpyrifos is moderately toxic to humans, and exposure has been linked to neurological effects, persistent developmental disorders and autoimmune disorders. Exposure during pregnancy retards the mental development of children, and most home use was banned in 2001 in the U.S.

It's the vaccines causing that autism. BIGLY!

>>129041
The liberal politicians absolutely do that. Though in terms of wider policies, liberals have always championed ensuring a living wage, smaller workweeks, government support in the event of medical emergencies/loss of employment among others and the notion that we as an ideology are against the working class is ridiculous. Now we have to deal with being considered elitist because we think it was stupid to elect a reality tv star with no public policy experience to the governments highest office (regardless of policy).

>>129053
I dislike the terms liberal and conservative since their definitions are morphed and vague nowadays, but for the sake of conversation I can generally agree that "liberals" set certain welfare standard that have improved civilization and that we should be grateful for. The problem now is that the limitations of a planet with finite resources, particularly with today's complex circumstances, render the advancement of those liberal concepts you listed unsustainable to a certain degree and we're due for a societal downsizing because of that. That's why I can now get behind the "conservative" argument that we should focused on reducing government spending to maintain what we have rather than expanding welfare.
Unfortunately most conservative leaders and their drones are not good at explaining this concept. I can understand why liberals would be considered elitist nowadays because in my experience they're very condescending when speaking about those welfare issues and often refuse to acknowledge the Right's critique of the economics being liberal ideas and instead characterize us as all racist, sexist, etc. bigots. I can understand your concerns about the president and I generally agree, but I believe that there's still an argument that the establishment he replaced could be worse and I think it's good that there's someone at least trying the challenge former systems which got us where we are but what the fuck do I know

>>129078
>I can understand why liberals would be considered elitist nowadays because in my experience they're very condescending when speaking about those welfare issues and often refuse to acknowledge the Right's critique of the economics being liberal ideas and instead characterize us as all racist, sexist, etc. bigots.

As a liberal I can definitely see that in many ways. Here in California a major issue in our environmental policy is that while we need very strict regulations (California is fragile as fuck), these policies often hurt small farmers and businesses more than big businesses and oftentimes when the EPA comes knocking with fines for violations the corporations have enough money to fight it or just pay without any worries while small businesses can be devastated for fucking up. The problem is that we on the left often see every situation as a rendition of The Lorax and don't make enough accommodations for small business. Because of this, the rural folk get lumped into the ignorant category for not wanting these policies, and it does make the left look elitist. Hell, if it weren't for the lefts elitist outlook on ecology and guns the entire state would turn blue and not just the cities.

>>129147
Yeah that's a good point about failing to make accomodations to the small businesses. There's a catch 22 when it comes to government policy all to often isn't there
All in all regarding OP's article I don't now what the right answer is, but I do know that modern industrial agriculture is pretty fucked and unsustainable

>>129012
Boy am I glad you aren't in a position of power of some kind.

>>127292
I mean, you do realize these are just two tards arguing for the sake of arguing on an anonymous board, right? For the takeaway to be a bad opinion of the left and not both, really shows you arent looking at both sides.

>>129248
agreed. The best threads on /news/ are the ones with less than 10 replies.

>>129147
This is a type of corruption you describe is a well-known problem in most regulatory systems, i.e. that only the megacorps have the political and/or economic resources to say "no" when they don't want to comply. And while there have been many attempts at remedies, such as progressive (instead of flat) fines based on corporate size and ridiculously steep penalties available to judges for failed lawsuits, a well-diversified corporation with a large pool of shareholders with short collective memory won't give a fuck if the fine is in the billions, as long as the sentence was only passed at least 10 years after the first news coverage broke.

And that's a scenario with just a megacorp with suitable economic power, not even one doing extensive political lobbying and public ad campaigns on top of everything else.

So at the end of the day it's still a type of corruption and cronyism exploiting aspects of all levels of the system, something that both parties should be willing to address, regardless of the fact that this often (but far from always, and far from in the majority of cases *cough* antitrust *cough*) deals with environmental or labor or other "liberal" issues.

>>128216
I think a real problem would be that a sitting president or his team made deals with a foreign country to help him get elected. You can move the goalposts to 'it has to be messing with the actual voting machines or it doesn't count,' but I think a lot of people would be disturbed to find out they had been propagandized to as part of an international scheme.

>>129399
>I think a real problem would be that a sitting president or his team made deals with a foreign country to help him get elected.
Using a private British spy agency to supply information on someone running against your chosen presidential candidate isn't illegal, god fucking /pol/tard conspiracy theorists need to leave.

>>129400
Hold on bud, read my post again, maybe I was unclear. I'm talking about Trump and/or his team making deals with the Russians.

>>129401
>Hold on bud, read my post again, maybe I was unclear.
No, you're just retarded.

>I'm talking about Trump and/or his team making deals with the Russians.
I know exactly what you were talking about, I was using a partisan opposite example of what you were clumsily alluding to. Amazing how quickly your toned changed when you thought I was a fellow /news/hill though.

>>129402
Ah, sorry I'm not operating on your misdirection level. And apologies if you felt threatened, I just want this discussion to be a safe space for you alright? I'll try not to use such harsh words next time like 'problem,' or 'disturbed.' If there's anything else about my tone that disturbed you please let me know, I'm retarded you see.

Nice to see another thread that has strayed far from the original discussion.

>>129406
It's older than 48 hours, it shouldn't even be bumping anyway.

Oh, right, this board is a shill board and the sticky doesn't actually matter.

>>129410
The mods did that in a time before you started shitting up threads. It was a mistake.

>>129413
>The mods did that in a time before you started shitting up threads. It was a mistake.
I wouldn't be able to shit up threads if they stopped bumping after 48 hours ;^)

>/news/ was a mistake.
FTFY

>>129415
>>/news/ was a mistake.
>FTFY
If you feel that way you should leave then tbh fam.
You know you can manually prevent a thread bumping, right?

>>129417
>If you feel that way you should leave then tbh fam.
Why would i do that when I can keep kicking the bees nest?

>You know you can manually prevent a thread bumping, right?
Yup ;^)

/news/ belongs to /pol/.

Get rekt.

>>129417
>You know you can manually prevent a thread bumping, right?
No you can't. This board is shit.

>>128997
My favorite part of the EPA is their literal shit fights and shitting in the hallways.

EPA must be full of Indians.

>>127060
>By reversing the previous administration’s steps to ban one of the most widely used pesticides in the world, we are returning to using sound science in decision-making — rather than predetermined results.”


holy shit, how does that even make any remote sense?

>>129584
He thinks the free market can literally do no wrong and that if the stuff was dangerous then nobody would buy it. Oh, and that regulations are for pussies, not the government.