>Today a legislation impacting H1-B visa programme has been introduced in the US House of Representatives making it difficult for companies in the US to employ skilled foreign workers. Among other things, the bill more than doubled the minimum wage requirement of H1-B visa holders to US $130,000.
>The H-1B visa is a non-immigrant visa that allows US companies to employ foreign workers in specialty occupations that require theoretical or technical expertise in specialised fields. Under the H1-B visa programme, US-based companies hire highly skilled foreign workers, up to a maximum of 85,000 a year. Of these 65,000 are hired abroad and 20,000 from among foreign nationals studying in the US.
http://www.firstpost.com/business/donald-trumps-h1-b-visa-proposal-will-have-repercussions-for-the-us-too-say-experts-3240302.html
>The H-1B visa program tends to be more critical to outsourcing firms than US tech firms, according to a Reuters report. For instance, more than 60 percent of the US employees of Infosys are H-1B holders, and the company in its annual report has cited an increase in visa costs as among factors that could hurt its profitability.
>The top 10 recipients of H-1B visas in 2015 were all outsourcing firms, according to government data compiled by the IEEE-USA, a professional organization representing US engineer Sixty-five percent of H-1B petitions approved in the 2014 fiscal year went to tech workers, mostly from India, according to USCIS.
>A joint research paper by Greyhound Research’s Sanchit Vir Gogia - CEO and Anshoo Nandwaani - VP, Principal Analyst, reveals this development [H1-B visa proposal] is a significant announcement by the newly appointed Trump administration.
>While changes were expected under the new President, the suddenness and the order of the announcement has surely caught IT Services Providers across the globe by surprise, they said.
>Some of the possible outcomes of this proposal would be according to the research paper are:
>Ramifications for both sides, the IT Services Providers and the US economy: Skilled foreign workers who come to work in the United States on H1-B visas don’t just directly supplement the US IT industry with specialised skillsets, they also contribute indirectly to other industries in the US. Often H1-B workers bring their families along and thereby bring additional business for other industries like real estate, Banking, hospitality, to name a few. The effects of this announcement will impact the GDP and the overall business economy and growth of US. While 20 percent of H1-B visa quotas have been set aside for start-ups and small employers with 50 or fewer employees, there is no denying that this will be a dampener to the spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship.
>Skills, not salary, should have been the basis of this reform: Using wage as it’s only pivot, the bill has more than doubled the minimum wage requirement of H1-B visa holders from $60,000 to $130,000. There is no mention of any skills based criteria/requirement. In addition, the High-Skilled Integrity and Fairness Act of 2017 prioritises market-based quota of H1-B visas to companies willing to pay 200 percent of a fixed wage. In light of the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) skills gap currently prevailing in the US, a thorough on-the-ground study of multiple factors, with skills being the primary factor, should have been the foundation of the Act.
Most US-based Fortune 500 organisations are deeply invested and dependent on IT services providers using H1-B visas to source skills: In midst of all this, it’s critical to remember that most US-based companies (including many Fortune 500s) are highly dependent on IT Services Providers. These companies actively outsource for both skills and cost advantages – important to note, it’s not just the latter that drives the decisions. Changes in the H1-B visa arrangement will add immense cost pressures on these organisations. Hence, neither they nor the Trump administration are in a position to make any drastic changes right away.
Minimum salary requirement of US $130,000 is not too far from the current average and hence not a prohibitive figure to match: The current average salary of a skilled foreign worker employed via H1-B visa is $100,000. The newly announced minimum salary requirement of $ 130,000 is not prohibitive and can be managed by way of creative salary restructuring and including Per Diems, benefits and other allowances as part of base package. As per Greyhound Research estimates, upon this restructuring the average margin hit for an IT Services provider will be in the range of 5-10 percent year-on-year depending on the total base of employees currently on H1-B, the existing compensation and need for onsite in near-term. Critical to note, a hit beyond this number will force these firms to either renegotiate contracts with existing clients or else the street will act ruthless and these firms stand to lose potential ground on market capitalisation.
>While onshore and nearshore contracts will see a surge, transition cannot be managed overnight and will give rise to the Coopetition economy: With the prevailing protectionist sentiment and newly imposed restrictions, the US business ecosystem will see a sharp rise in on-shoring and near-shoring arrangements. However, it is critical to remember that these cannot be built overnight and need-based handshake between IT Services providers and sub-contracting to local IT Services providers will be the routes most choose to take, giving rise to the Coopetition Economy.
>Nasscom response
>In a statement released today, Nasscom highlighted the specific provisions of the bill that need to be considered are:
>The bill does nothing to address the underlying shortage of STEM-skilled workers, which has led all companies to have a calibrated strategy of hiring locally and bridging the skills gap by bringing skilled workers on non-immigrant visas including H-1Bs,
>The bill does not treat all IT service companies with H-1B visa holders equally, and the provisions are biased against H-1B dependent companies,
>The bill does nothing to consider regional variations in salary structure, which could help some states and hurt others,
>The higher wage level would have ripple effects for many other industries including nursing, engineering, life sciences, and others.
>>106730
>“Since the rationale for the Administration and the Legislative wing is to protect job opportunities for Americans, our strong suggestion is that they should carefully calibrate the conditions keeping in mind the skill shortage in the US, " said R. Chandrashekhar, President, NASSCOM, adding, "once that is done, they should not leave any loopholes in the rules being framed that leave some channels open for circumventing the limits. Raising wage levels for dependent companies alone will defeat the basic objective as non-dependent companies can continue to bring in skilled workers at lower wage levels, thereby nullifying the objective of protecting job opportunities for American nationals”.
>Shivendra Singh, Vice President, Global Trade Development, Nasscom had said to Firstpost earlier that the Indian IT industry in the US has created 411,000 indirect and direct jobs and has been paying $5 billion in taxes early. “Around 90 percent of H1-B visas is used by the top 7 Indian IT firms. In 2015, we got about 13 percent of the visa allocated which only goes to show that Indian companies do not take the majority of the visas issued,” he remarked.
>Singh pointed that the data from the US Labour Department points out to a shortage of skilled professionals in the industry. According to December 2015 projections by the US Labor Department, employment of computer and information technology occupations will grow 12 percent from 2014 to 2024. Since there is a shortage of native STEM skill experts, as many 2.4 million STEM jobs in the US would not be filled by 2018. “The US will have to look at other countries to fill up these vacancies,” Singh said.
>While announcing Infosys’s October-December 2016 results, Vishal Sikka, CEO was hopeful that policies of the Trump administration would be friendly toward business, innovation and entrepreneurship. Sikka pointed out that with president-elect Trump himself being an entrepreneur and ‘has a very business-friendly, innovation-oriented background.” However, Trump has dashed the hopes of the Indian IT industry with his H1-B visa proposal today.
I am a (non-immigrant) developer working at one of the small business that is intended to benefit from the H1-B program (as opposed to the outsourcing corporations abusing it). A significant portion (about half) of my fellow developers are here under the H1-B program. This law would be very bad for us (unless it's toothless enough to work around).
I like this bill in the abstract, but have serious concerns about the specifics. One of my concerns is outlined in the article - lack of sensitivity to regional variations in salary. If you live in Silicon Valley, 130k is a reasonable minimum for a "skilled worker" to make. Cost of living is very high in California, so salaries are also high. However, I work in a state where cost of living is very low. 130k here is an amazing salary. I don't make that much and the technical work I do is certainly highly skilled under any reasonable definition of the word. I strongly hope they do something to address this. As is, it punishes companies who base themselves in areas of the US which have a lower cost of living. This punishes American workers like me who don't live in areas like Silicon Valley, which seems like a very un-Trump decision.
>>106725
These nativist practices are going to lead to a lot of big companies going under...
Expecting layoffs for all employees not 1px as good as 3rd worlders
>>106744
Or they'll just go back to hiring American workers.
Oh man, what a disaster that would be.
>>106755
Are you trying to say that Americans are skilled? lmao
>>106760
Are you trying to say that Poos are skilled in anything but loo dodging?
>>106755
It actually would be. Mind you,the people who take these visas aren't the dirty field spics that the mouth breathers in the rust belt think is taking there jerbs. These are the extremely smart immigrants that are beating us into a bloody pulp on science and math that are taking jobs that a good majority of the u.s under qualified for because of our shitty education system. Take them out and you have a under staffed silicon valley business with a side of handicaped competitiveness on the international level. Tldr, we need these fuckers to compete or else we're left with a milky bootyhole
>>106765
>we need immigrants
>Americans are bad
*yawn*
*pulls blanket over head*
>>106765
That's just corporate propaganda covering up the fact that H1B workers can be legally underpaid while basically enslaved to the company since it's the only reason they can even step foot in the US.
There's plenty of stories of highly qualified US tech workers that have been forced to train their foreign replacements who come in at massively reduced pay.
>>106755
You want a large a pool as possible to recruit from. Americans CAN do the job but they are not an infinite resource. It came to a point where we had to recruit internationally because it had become increasingly more and more difficult to hire locally. This is the reality of things: we as a nation need to focus educating young Americans in STEM fields instead of allowing universities to sell them bullshit hobby majors.
Are there major corporations abusing the fuck out of H1Bs? Hell to the fucking yes. Ask anyone in the IT field and inevitably Disney will come up. Technology is not their core focus so they go out of their way to outsource the fuck out of their IT workforce and aim for minimum standards. It is companies like this that ruin the H1B program for everyone else. It's come to a point where H1B is a fuckign random (ish) lottery so everyone just spams fucking H1B applications in the HOPE that they can secure talent they want.
>>106769
>>You want a large a pool as possible to recruit from. Americans CAN do the job but they are not an infinite resource
Too fucking bad, you'll just have to pay them higher wages.
>>It came to a point where we had to recruit internationally because it had become increasingly more and more difficult to hire locally. This is the reality of things: we as a nation need to focus educating young Americans in STEM fields instead of allowing universities to sell them bullshit hobby majors.
Again too fucking bad, you'll just have to provide them with on the job training.
>>106772
You want companies to hire unqualified people and give them free training?
>>106772
>Too fucking bad, you'll just have to pay them higher wages.
Americans already make the highest wages in the IT field. What you want is a repeat of the Detroit auto industry.
>>106725
This is a good thing. I'm fucking sick of companies importing some chink or poo in loo with a PhD that is willing to work for far less than you. It's utterly fucked up STEM careers, and has ensured that corporations can fuck over educated workers as much as humanly possible. Fuck their profits, this is a very good thing.
>>106772
>Again too fucking bad, you'll just have to provide them with on the job training
If you can do whatever it is with a month of on the job training then it's not fucking skilled labor.
>>106783
Have you ever considered that maybe you're just not worth all that much? If you were good enough, they'd hire you anyways.
t. employed fully murrican STEMfag
>>106775
It's not free training, as the employees in question will be working for your company.
>>106776
If you think high wages is the thing that sunk the US auto industry then you are part of the problem.
>>106788
I don't give a shit if the training takes a month or six months or a year frankly.
>>106792
He is worth quite a bit, because he is a US citizen who was born in the US. That makes him worth more then billions upon billions of third world scabs.
>>106765
>Meanwhile, the meme that an entry level job with shit pay, no benefits and requires 5 years experience goes on, its origin completely unknown.
Seriously, these visas are heavily used to replace our college students with people who think 25k a year is a fair wage for work in IT and software development. By using a consulting model to bring in these visa's they are able to skirt that minimum wage, being lower than the prevailing wages in any industry in any area of the US. As an example, hiring a programmer at a wage fair for some where with a low cost of living (such as a research lab out in the middle of nowhere) but having them work in San Francisco.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2507602/technology-law-regulation/h-1b-pay-and-its-impact-on-u-s--workers-is-aired-by-congress.html
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004501/h1b/proof-that-h-1b-visa-abuse-is-rampant-in-tech.html
Companies know full well that as long as they label someone an entry level worker on the H1B they will get away with slave wages. Worse yet, companies that don't use the visas will pay the same wages, saying its what it would cost them to hire out of an Indian body shop.
The US government was complicit with companies outsourcing skilled labor. It isn't about training and it isn't about being beaten in STEM. Its fucking Unix and Java work, trained monkeys could do it for bananas. Its about corporations being allowed and encouraged to get cheap, foreign labor at the detriment of American workers and the fact that it is coming to an abrupt end.
t. PM for a few IoT projects
>>106800
Infosec PM here. Hi.
>>106792
I am worth that much, but why employ a qualified, educated American with experience when you can hire a third world shit head for half the price AND have them be indentured servants? This system exists to fuck over Americans by insourcing cheap workers. Stop shilling for corporations and start thinking of what is actually good for americans. I didn't vote for trump and frankly I can't stand the fag, but this is undoubtedly a good thing.
>>106803
>Stop shilling for corporations and start thinking of what is actually good for americans.
..and who do you think owns all that public stock that demands these companies optimize profit margins? Everyone is a patriot until it's your money on the line. If anything, its about time we brought the American class war to the front.
>>106725
So we actually had meeting at work over this but then we realized 90% of our employees are citizens so ha ha, fuck the rest of you
>>106798
>I don't give a shit if the training takes a month or six months or a year frankly.
Try 3 years. It's a four year degree and even after you cut the "well-rounded" fluff you're not gonna reach a baseline level of competency in less than three. And you'll be fucking useless for the first two, so it's not really on the job training at all.
>He is worth quite a bit, because he is a US citizen who was born in the US. That makes him worth more then billions upon billions of third world scabs.
Big fucking deal. So am I, take a number. The compiler doesn't care where you're from and I'm not gonna let some incompetent shitbag near my project. Doesn't matter if he's your typical poo in loo offshore asshat or a murrican shitter who quit his CS degree half way through for a business degree but decided to pick up a job in CS anyways because that's the only thing that was hiring. You're only as valuable as your skill.
>>106800
So patch the program to force them to use the highest prevailing wage among areas they operate in, instead of shitting on areas with lower cost of livings. Fucking Californians.
>>106807
>Seriously defending slave labor in the name of profit margins
Absolutely disgusting. Its not patriotism, it is basic human decency to abhor this legalized human trafficking that is run under the guise of filling a labor shortage. This is exactly why this is being repealed, to re-employ Americans and cut off this source of cheap brown labor that doesn't even require basic human rights
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/28/1339741/-Human-Trafficking-In-Tech-Industry
http://h1blegalrights.com/2011/05/what-happened-to-the-h-1b-employees-charged-with-it-employer-as-visa-fraud-conspirators/
>Such practices violate Department of Labor and USCIS regulations and are common among unscrupulous H-1B employers commonly referred to as “body shops.” These body shops lure H-1B employees with the promise of well-paying tech jobs in the United States. When an employee arrives, however, he finds no job exists and he won’t be paid. Instead, he is told to go out and get himself placed with a third-party company and only then would he be paid. If he is not working, he is benched without pay, in violation of the law. The employee often is afraid to confront the employer about the unlawful activity, fearing for his immigration status.
>>106817
>Just patch the program!
That is what happened. Minimum, nationwide wage is 130k. No more "prevailing wages" loopholes to obfuscate the despicable practices of these Indian body shops.
>>106817
>>Big fucking deal
It actually is a big deal that American workers are being undercut by foreigners.
>>The compiler doesn't care where you're from and I'm not gonna let some incompetent shitbag near my project.
Then you will be forced to whether you like it or not, because preventing the social instability caused by unemployment is more important then economic efficiency.
>>106818
I'm not fully disagreeing with you, I'm trying emphasize what it is. Rich Americans vs not rich Americans.
I've been in the It field for a little over 20 years now, started as an intern and I've seen things in the course of my profession you wouldn't believe. But in the end, they all chase the same thing.
>>106803
I'm no corporate shill, I just hate people thinking they're entitled to whatever just for being born. Especially when I here those same people worshipping the free market when it comes to deregulation and the like.
I'm a murrican in STEM. I get paid because I'm good at my job, and the companies that pay me trust me to do jobs they don't trust their own employees to do. If you can't differentiate yourself by your skill set, why should someone be compelled to hire you?
I don't mind the idea of this bill in the abstract - the H1-B regulations could stand to be tightened a bit. But this version of the law is detrimental to small businesses, who are unable to abuse it in the same way as corporations, and to low cost of living states, which the new version gives absolutely no consideration to.
>>106818
>>Just patch the program!
How about you read the fucking post instead cutting off whenever you feel it's convenient? In case you missed the important part;
>to force them to use the highest prevailing wage among areas they operate in
>>106824
>Then you will be forced to whether you like it or not, because preventing the social instability caused by unemployment is more important then economic efficiency.
lmao literally welfare jobs
might as well just ask daddy trump to give you jobs building statues of him. mt trumpmore!
>>106775
H1B holders are literally unqualified and receive free training because they can be paid less.
What you are actually factually arguing in favor of is the fact that Americans make too much money and need to be replaced with 3rd worlders who are capable of 7/10ths the quality but are paid 1/2 the rate, making it a technical net gain for the companies that hire them.
Obviously you're some Poo-in-Loo who just wants to come make money at the expense of our actual citizens, or you wouldn't in a million years be in favor of this shit
>AMERICANS DON'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ADAPT TO THE HIGH TECH MARKET
>"Okay here I am with the proper experience and qualifications for these new high paying jobs"
>NOPE, I FOUND 2 INDIANS THAT CAN DO THE SAME THING FOR LESS PAY SO SEEYA
>>106847
>t. Pajeet
Gravy train's over, get the fuck out of my country
>>106850
nope, just someone who doesn't need to suck up to the pres for a job. wasn't self-sufficiency supposed to be an american value? sad!
>>106849
lol nice try pal, American born and raised. Go look for your welfare handouts somewhere else, nigger. This is how businesses are run: to make profit for the shareholder. Don't like it? Cry to the board of directors.
If you think people are going to start handing out 200k jobs to Tyrone because he's a citizen you can go fuck yourself.
>>106833
>But this version of the law is detrimental to small businesses, who are unable to abuse it in the same way as corporations, and to low cost of living states, which the new version gives absolutely no consideration to.
Except that it doesn't. The previous regulation was that you needed to pay the prevailing wage, while being vague on what that would entail. It was abused excessively by paying the prevailing wage of some low CoL areas but having them work in areas like urban California. You can still hire a college grad to do it at that same wage.
>>106842
Sorry I didnt quote the whole post, the spirit of the law is being violated but not the letter.
https://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pwscreens.cfm
>The prevailing wage rate is defined as the average wage paid to similarly employed workers in a specific occupation in the area of intended employment. Effective January 4, 2010, employers can obtain this wage rate by submitting a request to the National Prevailing Wage Center (NPWC), or by accessing other legitimate sources of information such as the Online Wage Library, available for use in some programs.
>The requirement to pay prevailing wages as a minimum is true of most employment based visa programs involving the Department of Labor. In addition, the H-1B, H-1B1, and E-3 programs require the employer to pay the prevailing wage or the actual wage paid by the employer to workers with similar skills and qualifications, whichever is higher.
Start by stating that the urban average for say, a entry level Java programmer, is 25k in Flint. Then the pay is 12.50 an hour as long as the person was employed to do entry level java work in an urban area, regardless of if it was Flint or San Francisco. Tightening it to include proximity would just lead to tech industries telecommuting work from rural areas to get around the wage laws and wont fix the problem.
>>106863
Well if you want to hire Indians then move to India and enjoy their market.
Good luck have fun, we'll just be over here suffering with our high wages and job security.
>>106863
That's the spirit.
Fuck welfare! Poverty should be the punishment for lazy ass faggots that brought this nation to its knees. May Trump revitalize the supremacy that our forefounders brougt to this savage and unholy land.
>>106725
>>106727
>>106728
> skilled foreign workers
In other words companies that are hiring cheap help overseas instead of paying more for the same people in their OWN country.
As if its assumed that people in the united states (the most advanced nation on earth) cant find people in their own country. And keep that talent and power here within our borders.
> it actually sets a maximum of 85 grand a year, you literally cant pay foreign workers more than that if you outsource to have them come here
> literally dictates you're paying less
Its about time this is being attended to, its a blaring outright drain on american capabilities.
> My Face When
> Trump sets a MINIMUM WAGE
> Of 130 foooking grand
Really gonna make you pay for having someone come in from overseas. You really better be hiring them for their SKILLS rather than just the fact they're available.
>>106872
Nice comeback Tyrone, maybe go cry to Obama and tell him the big bad white companies won't hire you because you spent more time smoking cracking than studying.
>>106863
>lol americans get fucked board of directors needs that bottom line hurr
Let me spell this out since you seem confused about the issue.
THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING CORPORATIONS TO UNDERCUT AND FUCK OVER AMERICANS IS NOT OKAY.
>>106884
I don't think that's a nigger you're replying to; just a liberal fag that want to help the rats of the world.
I think it's a fucking commie.
>>106871
And my entire point was that instead of using this terrible inflexible version, they should update the letter of the law while not screwing low CoL states. This version hands competitive advantage of foreign labor to high CoL areas like Silicon Valley while emphasizing the disadvantages of low CoL areas (which tend to have shallower labor pools for skilled labor).
I'm fine with stopping corporate labor abuses. I'm not fine with screwing everyone else.
>Tightening it to include proximity would just lead to tech industries telecommuting work from rural areas to get around the wage laws and wont fix the problem.
That's why I said force the company to use the highest wage of among all areas they operate in. Telecommuting doesn't get around it.
>>106888
Go fuck yourself.
Peasants have no rights and Trump and pals knew that. That's why he's making the nanny state into a Global Super Power that it once were; before Lincoln and Roosevelt fucked it up for everyone.
Go ahead and defend your precious crib; they'll tear it down and kick you out in the fucking street where you belong!
>>106884
American was founded as a protectionist nation by it's very white founders. If you want to go hire a bunch of foreigners literally only so you can pay them lower wages, then you can export your ass out of the US and go live next to the shitting fields of India, you mongoloid.
>>106892
With H1B tech companies are predominately:
>White
>Pajeet
>East Asian
>Russian
Without H1B tech companies will most likely be:
>White
>East Asian
And I bet these "patriots" will start crying about demographic disparity after that.
>>106896
No one is stopping you form making your own company with your own hiring practices you know. Why do I owe anyone American or not, a job? Why can I not operate my company the way I see fit within the confines of the law? Why do all you Americans, pajeets and whatever think you're all so special?
I swear to fucking god I can't wait until we can replace the lot of you with goddamn machines.
>>106888
wow those numbers
Fact is these companies could already pay the higher wages to skilled american workers. They could afford this and still be personally wealthy as a result.
They're just making more money off of outsourcing. Same money, its just instead of putting it in the pockets of the people they're bringing in, they keep it to themselves.
Kinda begs the question why people like this arent being shot for being that mean to other humans.
Contrary to popular belief this kind of crap would never fly in a facist state.
>>106902
If you don't like it then go form your own country and government, since nobody here owes you a thing if you don't even hire Americans.
>>106910
this exactly, why are they even in america if they dont want to hire american people?
if they wanna hire from india, why dont they just go set up shop in india
places like this usually make digital and computer stuff anyway, thats an internet thing and its easy as hell to ship these things - buying their products would have almost no impact if they were literally in another country
>>106910
Who says I don't want to hire Americans?
>All important leadership positions are staffed by Americans
>All element leaders staffed by Americans
>All the low end work is done by foreigners
Instead of wanting to compete for a 250k year job with another American you're whining to big gov for chump change.
>>106767
Fucking this I saw csc lay off 2/3rds of its US workers while I worked security there (citizenship ironically required for that job). The US has more than enough skilled intelligent or experienced tech workers companies just dont want to pay US wages
As an IT guy, I like this. Reduce the pool of competition for middle Americans who work in the field.
>>107439
>companies just dont want to pay US wages
Or wages at all.
>tfw CIS WHITE MALE with CS degree in progress
ABSOLUTELY BASED TRUMP
I am now a drumpf supporter
>>106879
Fucking right
>>106738
If you lower the minimum then you'll just have tech companies move en masse to a shitty state like west Virginia and import Indians and Chinese there.
No thanks Tim
>don't do that
>its racist
>it won't work anyway
>>106850
>being this entitled
Face it, kid, he wrecked your argument. You're not owed special treatment for being American (and you're a poor excuse at even that!), especially when companies can hire international workers more skilled than you for less. And guess what, they'll keep doing it regardless of government encouragement. It's just good business.
Oh, what's that? They'll be punished? Then all they have to do is move, and remind everyone who REALLY owns the country.