>tfw you will NEVER live in a walkable city Why is the New

>>943180
Because our cities were designed that way.

walkable cities are expensive as fuck to live in.

at least living in the burbs and having a car, also gives up a car to go places with.

>>943180
Zoning laws.

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>>943181
The vast majority of American cities were chartered WELL before the 50's m9.

>>943190
Pretty much this.

There are plenty of walkable smaller cities in America like the 2 Portlands (The ones in Maine and Oregon) and bigger cities like Chicago, NYC, and Boston. I'd say the only cities known for being horribly un-walkable are places in the south, midwest, and southwest (essentially everywhere that isn't the Northeast and Northwest).

Watch the cars episode of Adam ruins everything and it'll be summed up pretty well why this is the case

>>943180
Maybe you should try getting out of Sudbury, ON. Plenty of walkable places to live in Canada m8.

Didn't know there are cities that are not walkable. Greets aus Finnland.

pertinent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ


suck it murkans

>>943180
Al that surface car parking in order to park close to... nothing.

>>943184
That's largely a function of supply and demand.
Walkable cities are desirable, and suddenly rather trendy, but we haven't built any more of them or expanded housing in them since the 1950s. Meanwhile there's still a glut of disposable cul-de-sac tract houses on the market from before the housing crash.

>>943180
Fat Americans don't walk.

>>943203
>Chicago
>NYC
>walkable
Australian shitposter spotted.

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This is where I live

https://www.google.nl/maps/@53.2112025,6.5727246,3a,60y,76.63h,79.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s--95aR26dZtzh4ky1nvXvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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>Tfw when you do

>>944830
Good to know

>>944830
OMG, want to be you so bad! My house is OK, never need the pickup unless I actually need to haul something. But new job is 40min of drive away, just the way it is. Pity me.
>then I get to work, and drive a big truck all day

>>944911
>surface parking wasteland
>walkable

>>947229
It looks like it at least has sidewalks, crosswalks, and gridded streets, which puts it at "unpleasantly walkable," a rather more walkable category than much of the US.

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>>944911
It's walkable if you parked next to your work.

>>943283
fuck this gay earth
fuck this gay earth
fuck this gay earth
fuck this gay earth
fuck this gay earth

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What do you guys think about Dutch cities

>>943263
like where? Vancouver, Toronto are expensive af and montreal has nojobs. Ottawa is super boring

>>947496
fucking gorgeous

>>943283
America got it wrong from the very beginning. Even the pre-industrial cities were massive shitholes. As H.L. Mencken wrote, there's something so fundamentally ugly about the American character that it can't help but manifest itself in eyesores.

>>947591
lol poorfags.

Bump5

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>>943283

Emphatically agree with every point he made. It's bothered me for a while. You see pictures of european cities, and you are overwhelmed by the desire to go there. Most want to vacation someplace like pic related. The notion doesn't enter their mind that we could design our cities and town to actually look like this, and everyday would be a vacation somewhere beautiful. We are so sold on needing a cheap 3000 sq foot house in the suburbs that we sell out our city and town and making life here an ugly shitstain upon the land and daily life miserable. You wake up in your giant plywood mcmansion surrounded by consumer goods you don't like or use, and you choke down a shitty piece of white toast and drive in heavy traffic for an hour to get to your shitty, dismal workplace surrounded by ugly parking lots and ugly warehouse-style buildings. Your kids come home and sit in your ugly plywood box and watch TV because anything fun is an hour drive away and the suburb sprawl is so ugly you have to force yourself to walk in it, so they don't do anything but watch the boob tube. And the parents wonder why the kids are stupid and fat and have no friends. We should have a separation, city and rural. Stop perverting the land into housing developments, stop letting the cities fall apart to warehouses and featureless cement walls of "facades". There is no reason we can't replicate beautiful architecture of europe right here. We could have venice or paris or amsterdam or london right in our backyard. Streets like this are beautiful. We could have flourishing market-lined streets and cute apartments above, central to everything and surrounded by beauty.

America has beautiful land. Making a messy, hideous urban sprawl of it and putting one-level stripmalls surrounded by vast parking lots and endless freeways, trash billowing off the sides of the roads into algaed ditches and drain pits, that's a waste of this natural beauty and of our lives spent in these spaces.

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>>950247

Or this. Did it ever occur to anyone that we have the capability to build this right here in America? We could have this. We could live in a city like this. Would anyone be able to honestly say they prefer an ugly, falling apart plywood mcmansion in development #372 down shit freeway, nowhere to living in this? What if it were the same price, the same affordability? What if YOU could live HERE? Every day is wonderful. You wake up, look at the ocean, walk to work, grab a nice breakfast sandwich from a cafe on the way, eat outside and enjoy the beautiful architecture, and after a leisurely stroll you arrive at your workplace, or at a light rail station that can take you there. Why can't we build this? Why can't we have this?

>>950249
>Why can't we have this?
Because people want detached homes, and America has the land, and access to cheap oil, necessary to keep on building suburbia.
http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/burbs-are-back-they-will-be-different-time.html

>>950247
>>950249
I wish we could still build cities like this i Europe!

>>950247
What place doesn't have beautiful land?

>>950250

Idk, part of GE's move to Boston was because young people don't want to work in the suburbs (where there old HQ was located)

Detached homes will take a step aside in the future

>>950252

*their

Sorry, accounting final had me up

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>>950250

Detached homes are shit. More maintenance and upkeep, don't retain heat so your heat bill is sky high, further from everything so your commute is longer, need more land so you have to build further away.

>>950251
>What place doesn't have beautiful land?

Iowa? But really, we should look to beautify our land, and better city planning improves quality of life AND appearance and can save you money in the long term. What are we leaving behind? A sprawling automotive slum of strip malls and crumbling parking lots? Is that where we want to live?

We can share blueprints online now...why not recreate awesome architecture? At least european market street facades. They're easy to replicate, repeatable pattern, get your store on the bottom and apartment on top. You can walk downstairs and be somewhere worth being.

>>944763
>Fat Americans
If you say americans it's implied that you are talking about a fat person.

>>947496
I want to move there right fucking now/10

>>943203
American cities are not walkable because that is how we wanted it. Many cities that were laid out pre-WWII had extensive streetcar systems that were ripped up to make room for more cars.

>>947591
Ottawa might be boring but I can guarantee it's more exciting than Sudbury, ON. Lots of quaint walkable towns in BC too.

>>950249
That's a comfy port, it looks like the ones I make at anno games.

>work at an Architecture firm that does ~60% of the masterplanning for a major EU city
>In the past did lots of cool infrastructure shit based around walking/cycling/pubtran/etc
>present day
>Clients always want best price-per-square-metre
>Office only designs horrible boxes as a result
>all have underground carparks
>all connected by major roadways

Classical European cities are sorta stagnating. The ones that exist already will remain in their current state indefinitely. New cities and new development will never look like the old ones. Too many people, too much money, not enough thought.

>>950249

Do you have safety in your country? Do you have a lot of people like you to share the city you have in your head?

I live in the center of a small city, is it wonderful? I wake up, run to my destination worriyng about getting killed during a mug, avoid some beggars and (sorry the word, niggers) on the way, then I look to this portrait of hell, people eating shit and drinking cheap coffee on what we call a bar. Eat outside? Enjoy being interrupted by 3 hobos. Ride your bike back to home? Good luck not getting shot for the wallet, cellphone and the bike.

Things like this are nice only if you have similar people sharing this with you. In my country the suburb is the best place to live since we have walls around them.

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>>950249
>>950636

You might know the city in this picture. It's King's Landing from Game of Thrones. In real life it's Dubrovnik in Croatia. They had a war there a few years back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Dubrovnik

There are some areas that are totally "unwalkable". But in most actual cities you can walk your way through life.

The main reason people think they can't walk it is because instead of going on a leisurely walking pace where you can clear 3 miles an hour instead of walking 20 mins to the nearest auto store to get a master cylinder because yours is fucked. People will rather wait 2 days for delivery or borrow their friends car the next day and get there in 5 mins with traffic.

This also depends on lifestyle and interests as well. Not many people actually like walking and view it as a waste of time.

>>950690

And to add to this. When I was a little younger I used to drive 3 mins to work rather than do a 15 mins walk. It gave me more time to sleep in and I don't even live in the city. In fact I could have paddled a kayak to work and tie up my kayak on the work boat's mooring and just chill on the boat until I saw the boss open up shop and then bring her in for prep. Shit would have been so comfy.

If you think about where you can get in 20 mins (and you don't live in an american suburb or out in the bush) you can touch quite a few places on your way

>>950661
>>950249
>dubrovnik

its quite crowded over there. we had a high school excursion there, its stunning first hand to see but meh to live within the walls

>>950661
Only works if you somehow remove the hobos and lowlifes without triggering anybody.

>>950982
Is this a nice place to live? The thought of living in one of the new states always creeps me out, but I don't know if that's actually justified.

>tfw you will NEVER live in a car friendly city

Why is the Old World so terrible for drivers, /n/?

>>950994
It's perfectly fine as long as you have no troubles finding work. Living costs are lower in proportion to the wages, and united Germany has spent so much money getting new Germany fixed up that I was surprised to see almost no difference the last time I went to old Germany.

>>943184
They are only expensive because there's not enough of it.

This suggests there could be quite a lot more of walkable, nice city areas in North America.

>>950424
If you're looking for optimal $/m2 you're not gonna install underground car parks. Shit's expensive.

Europe is stricken in the same modernist planning ideal that has designed much of North America. We're doing well coasting with the old stuff, but building new old stuff is plain and flat illegal.

>>950636

The US is not that unsafe. I live in a high-crime area and have never been harmed, and I walk all over. Avoid the slums, cross the street if you see a nigger pack, preferably carry a weapon if your state isn't cucked (mine is but I carry something at least.) I have encountered hobos. You just ignore them, and if they get rowdy call the police. They love beating hobos. I ride my bike all over, even a few times in outright ghetto, and haven't been harmed yet. Protip: buy a real lock if you don't want it stolen.

>shot
>implying niggers have good enough aim to hit a moving target

The vast majority of urban areas in the US are still pretty white and preppy, as the nigs keep to the slums where they belong. Now, something like Paristan or Londonistan might not be the safest, but hey, maybe you could use a dinner fork or something to protect yourself?

>>950690

To be fair, a few pedestrian bridges would drastically reduce the frogger effect which is what most people worry about. I walk where I can, but my area has few pedestrians so I worry when crossing the 5-lane road that separates me from the grocery store as cars aren't used to needing to turn their fat heads and check first. A few pedestrian bridges would be a low cost and easy to install solution that would at least help. You don't need to tear up the streets and buildings that way. It isn't ideal but it's way better than what we have now.

>waste of time
>people drive to avoid a 10 minute walk, then pay $50/month to walk on treadmills at the gym

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>>950994
>>950982
>>951010
it's not much different from living in a town in the western part

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My home town.

>>950982
>not a single person under 55

>>943180

New York, Philadelphia, SF, Baltimore, Boston...

Any city that was built before the Cage Age.

It's a sad situation, but hardcore dudes can find a way. I've biked through the burbs during rush hour. It sucks, but if you are clever enough, and street smart enough, you can minimize danger cutting through parking lots, riding the shoulder on highways, and wearing all neon colors

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My home town.

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delete this thread the feels are too much

t. Mississauga, Ontario

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>>953045
The USA should take a cue from Trudy and start burning down all the cager areas. The refugees can be turned into environmentally sound coral reefs.

When Comrade Sanders takes power, the cleansing can begin.

>>944911
Why does that look like pamona to me

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>>953198
>Mississauga
I'm so sorry.

I've never lived there, but the few times I've tried getting around in that "city", even in a car...I'm pretty sure I have PTSD.

>>953243
I have to take Mississauga transit every day so I suppose when I finally move away I'll be like a grizzled veteran

Pre-car and post-car invetion.

>>953243
Mississauga is literally made up of a grid of massive boulevards. How the hell did you manage to get lost or confused by it?

>>953479
why would those be the only two implications?

>>943184
But you save alot of money by not having a car

Victoria, BC here. I can walk downtown and back, and the bus system is decent, so no complaints. A lot of money is getting invested in making our city a "cycling city", too.

>>956794
>Europeans complain about Americans having churches across the street from each other when they've got cathedrals within a couple blocks of each other

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>>953208
>When Comrade Sanders takes power, the cleansing can begin.

Keep dreaming pal, your Hero of the Political Revolution is a cager himself.

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>>953208
Cager genocide best day of my life

>>950249

No, we couldn't. Literally everything about that city is illegal in the United States. :(

>>950249
Dude...
>apartments would be 1/4 the size of the average american home
>garden? Hahah. Even a tiny backyard is a no. Maybe tiny ass balcony.
>car parking? Hell. And way further away from home.
>garage space? No/costs as much as another house

It's not all pretty architecture and cafes.
Signed, italianfag.

>>947496
Smashed together rat race

>>957038
Why would you need a garden when piazzas are a thing?

>>956994
Never heard a European complain about this.
And of course only one of these churches is a cathedral.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCbeck

>>957038
>car parking? Hell. And way further away from home.
yeah that's the point

>>957038
>apartments would be 1/4 the size of the average american home

Average American homes are like 4x bigger than they need to be anyway so there you go

>>957232
>bigger than they need to be
Define "need." Good luck.

>>957100
Because you can't ride a bike on fun paths in a piazza, you just stare at the fountain and "oh that's cool" then when the cool factor wears away it's just an easy meeting spot.

>>957156
All fun and games unless you actually have to use the car, m8. And all the tiny roads means that buses either can't pass or get stuck often, meaning they're always late in any city of a reasonable size.

>>957232
Yeah, you'll be extremely happy to pay the same/more for a 50 square metre two room hole.

>>957255
>Yeah, you'll be extremely happy to pay the same/more for a 50 square metre two room hole.

Yeah, I will, because almost every other factor in quality of life is much much higher in a quality city.

oh no i don't have room for faggot suburban cookouts and a 10 cage garage

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There are points between mcmansion in a copy pasted suburbia and a 20m^2 flat in a medieval coastal walled town.


In my opinion, European cities around 100-300k people are probably optimal when it comes to some general factors of the niceties of living.
You get the old medieval/renaissance core with the nice plazas and small alleyways, the inner part that still probably has the pleasant 19th century infrasturcture and architecture and suburbs aka sleeping neighbourhoods that are closer to the outskirts, so they get connections to highways and are closer to nature.
The city size is big enough for a comprehensive bus/tram/whatever public transport system and yet small enough not to have the insane gridlock of millions of people commuting every day or the uglyness that is a large CBD.

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>>957323
DON'T TALK SHIT ABOUT COOKOUTS

>>950694
This, I like to ride my bike to work but somedays I'm lazy and just sleep in.

I wish my town was more bike-friendly, I ride to the grocery store and inevitably get honked at or heckled on the way back by some driver irritated that the road went down to 2 lanes and they can't pass (even though they fucking try). It's like once the road goes to 2 lanes you just have to go to the shoulder or you're the bane of existence.

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I hate my town. I was walking my road bicycle with panniers through wide arcade passage walkthroughway at my local shithole town when this bitch told me to "you can't ride here" when I'm not even fucking riding it. I'm walking the bike.

Just waiting for my chance to move out to somewhere more friendly. I'm done with living in a shithole town. That crazy wench shouted a tirade at me even when I had Etymotic noise isolating earplugs on I can fucking hear you, you fucking wench. They had a go at me and I kept walking. Everyone hates cyclists here. inb4 AU sucks. I know. Sorry for blog I'm AU-born asian. Maybe I should go to Adelaide where Durianrider lives.

>>957038

>size

American houses are way too big anyway. I WANT a smaller place--easier to clean.

>garden

I had a garden. It's more work than it is worth. I'd rather just buy the produce and go hiking for my nature dose.

>parking
>garage

Ya dingus. The point is you don't need a car.

Seriously, want to houseswap right now? You can have my cager trap mcmansion and I'll take a sweet as hell waterside townhouse in a walkable little city.

>>943180
vancouver is pretty good. montreal is supposed to be even better. Viva canada!

>>950247
I agree wholeheartedly. My father is a scoutmaster, and growing up in the Appalachians, I learned early on how beautiful the land in America is, but we lived so far out of the loop, that my parents decided moving to a suburb near work, school, etc would be better. I spent my last three years of high school in a suburb before moving away from home, and it was just shit. Nowhere to go, stayed inside all day besides the occasional trip to the mountains; it wasn't a 'bad area', but three times in those three years, some high schooler would snap and kill his parents, and I could have sworn it was going to be me next. I've gotten to live in England for a while, my girlfriend's home country, and even in the factory town she comes from, I was never bored. And it seriously sucks to have to tell her visiting my family at their home would just be a waste of time because you can't go anywhere or do anything. Really wish my father would hurry and fulfill that dream of moving to Wyoming.

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>>950247
Yeah... You fucking nailed it. Colorado is a prime example: beautiful plains and mountains covered in blocky concrete atrocities just to squeeze more people into a once small, quaint border mountain town.

we live in a technology based era, without a car going to most places is inconvenient. Back in the day there were small towns but now everything is spread out

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>>950261
America has some beautiful scenery, unfortunately, a majority of the people here are cancerous fucking shit-stains.

>>958861
Your post is nonsense.

>>951095
>I worry when crossing the 5-lane road that separates me from the grocery store as cars aren't used to needing to turn their fat heads and check first
Every day of my life.
I'm walking distance from my workplace, but it might honestly be safer for me to drive.

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>>958896
>I'm walking distance from my workplace, but it might honestly be safer for me to drive.
disguise yourself as a car

>>943180
Because the land was free (stolen) and plentiful so you could all have those ranches miles apart.

>>947496
basis for graph theory/10

>>959165
Kaliningrad is Russia, not the Netherlands.

>tfw most of your city is perfectly walkable, but the most important part, the city centre is completely unwalkable
If for some reason you are unable to walk down and up the stairs (e.g. you're in a wheelchair, you're riding a bike, whatever), then the two colored lines are the shortest walking routes between their endpoints. Fucking commies and their city-planning.

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>>959197
forgot image, fuck

>>959198
polan in space when kurwa

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>>959205
1978

>>959197
I wonder how walkable Katowice became after all those recent changes.

>>947496
What's with all the orange roofs?

>>958861
You couldn't be more wrong. Technology doesn't make not owning a car inconvenient. It actually makes it easier than ever before if you live in a city. Within city limits you won't need car for anything as walking, cycling, and public transportation will take care of all needs for moving around. Buses, trains, and planes will take care of travelling outside your city. Mobile phone apps makes using public transportation so much easier, both in your own city and when travelling.

>inb4 I wanna go somewhere remote
Rent a car for the few times a year you need to do it.

>>959238
>Netherlands
>What's with the orange [anything]
Dude, the Dutch really love their orange everything. Even carrots are orange because of the Dutch.

>>957824
More like AU hates Asians not bicyclists.

>>959238
Fired clay that happened to contain iron oxide when mined.

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>>959197
>>959198
>riding a bike
>riding on the pavement not in the traffic where there's no bikelane

the only country in europe where riding in the traffic is prohibited as a general rule is belarus. poland is not. no need to be a pavement riding faggot.

as for picrelated guys, why don't the city install some elevators at those underpasses? that's what some other post-commie cities have done.

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ayylmfao i do

>>943180
despite all my rage I am still just a fat in a cage

>>958860
>squeeze
I think you aren't using that word right.

>>943180
>tfw you live within the 1 square km of walkability in your city

I have to bike across the entire city to get to work, but at least I'm not living in the suburban copy-paste nightmare that makes up 80% of this place. I can even ignore it completely by going through parks and back roads on my route.

>>943180
>>tfw you will NEVER live in a walkable city
>Why is the New World so terrible for non-drivers, /n/?
Wow, I know right. I am from Europe, and i once went on a trip to America. I stayed in a motel, and i wanted to go for a walk, but it was just weird. Every house looked exactly the same, they all had big dogs at the fence barking and ready to attack me (if it wasnt for the fence), sometimes there was no sidewalk to walk on. it was summer but nobody was walking around outside because everyone drives instead. it was so weird. i got to a 6 lained main road (3 in each direction) and there were no way to cross it because there were no lights for pedestrians. i wanted to cross the road to get to taco bell but it took me 10 minutes to wait for an opening. then i get honked at too.
there was one light for pedestrians near the airport, but im not even sure if it worked. i mean, it said i can walk, but im not sure if that actually implies that the cars have a red light because i saw one car go regardless.

>>962063
Not only is it almost impossible to walk in some American cities but when you do it people think you're crazy. I spent some time in an American uni in the middle of nowhere and would occasional walk to the mall even though there was a free bus from the university. People thought that walking for 40 minutes was some super human feat. And at the same time couldn't understand why I'd walk when I could've just waited 30 minutes for the bus and then spend 15 minutes riding it.

Got questioned by the cops a few times and they had a really hard time understanding the concept of walking as a means of transportation.

>>956794
just went to Lübeck last week for the first time. Came down on the train from Flensburg and walked around Lübeck, before going to an event I was planning on going to. Pretty great city to walk around. You can't get lost with the waterways as landmarks. Later had the worst Döner of my life though...

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>>962129
>Got questioned by the cops a few times and they had a really hard time understanding the concept of walking as a means of transportation.
Amerifat here, this really hit hard. When I was a kid I used to go on walks all the time to my friends house or to the library (which was an hour walk away). I honestly can't even count the amount of times cops would stop me and force me to get in the car and drive me home.

God I wish my family would have stayed in Germany.

Anyone here ever been to Venice? I was there in November 2015 and it was absolutely rammed full of people. Of course it's completely walkable, but it's not a fun, leisurely walk where you take in your surroundings, it's a "get through the crowd as fast as possible" kind of walk, because the press of people is too much.

You'll also spend the vast majority of your time avoiding street sellers selling you utter shit, and they won't give up if you just say "no" and walk on, they'll either follow you, or their friend will be about 15 metres away selling the exact same shit and pester you even further.

We spoke to a restaurant owner while there and he said it's like this every single day of the year, christmas day included when most places are closed, there will still be an unbelievably huge amount of tourists.

Having said all that, walking around at night (after 11pm) was GOAT. Barely any tourists or even locals, just you and the city.

>>943264
The American southeast is a prime example. Small pop-up city centers separated by miles and miles of wide roads at 50+ mph and drivers who basically don't give a shit if another car is coming.

>>957824
American here. You can always do worse friend. You can always do much, much worse.

>>962154
How old are you? I've talked with people a generation older than me (24 yo here) and they told me how they and their friends used to ride their bikes places around their small downtown to do stuff. Now she says that everyone is too afraid of their kid getting taken or murdered or run over to let them do that.

>>964595
Not that guy, but I'm 39 and I remember being stopped by cops for walking when I was a kid

Also he said walking, not riding a bike. I was never stopped by a cop for riding a bike

>>959334
Very common in Denmark as well

>>947591
>no jobs
Plenty of jobs in Toronto, just gotta work your way up. You can live in a 1 bedroom for $800 a month, 15 min bike ride from downtown if you look around.

>>965077
One bedroom for $800/month in Toronto would get you a place in Moss Park or some other cockroach infested neighbourhood. Cheapest I've seen in a decent neighbourhood DT for a one bedroom is $1250/month, which is still very reasonable.

>>953196
Osaka lel.

Literally the Baltimore of Japan.

>>943180
I do not know this feel.

>>944911
where is?

http://urbankchoze.blogspot.ca/2015/08/point-of-view-matters-scourge-of.html

>>964582
Well yeah, but Venice is a meme city, Mestre on the mainland is the actual city.

Yesterday morning, my girlfriend and i got into my car, which was parked a few feet from my door, and drove up to a wonderful section of forest where we went for a 8 1/2 mile hike. On the way back, we stopped at a brewpub with our friends and had lunch and some beer.

That's something that that all you Euro-peons and the teeming masses in Asia will never be able to to do because you will spend your lives in crowded subway cars and your shitty little apartments. Sucks to be you.

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>>972017
>complains about modernist grandeur
>praises the architecture of old churches
They served their function well but it seems rather stupid to praise buildings that were conceived first and foremost as enormous (for the time) structures that projected the wealth and opulence of the institutions. They're not really good examples of form following function.

>>972305
I'm tempted to call this low-quality bait but I don't think it even reaches the threshold for something to be considered b8.

>>972321
Well desu alot of modernist architecture doesn't give a shit about street level views. I share the point of horizontal scale though, I think we should build high, but keep lower levels interesting for pedestrians, it doesn't have to look like a church, a simple storefront will do.

>>965079
I live in two minutes away from the AGO (close to university and dundas) and I only pay 650 for a nice little apartment with one roommate. Reasonable rent exist, you just have to look for it.

>>972321
>They served their function well
>They're not really good examples of form following function.

Also, it's like you completely missed the point of the article.

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>>972326
>Well desu alot of modernist architecture doesn't give a shit about street level views
Absolutely. Some modernist structures are just downright hostile to street level (it almost feels as if people like John C. Portman jr. had declared war on sidewalks in the 70s).

To their credit though, some architects did attempt to integrate their creations into the streetscape by adding storefronts (pic related).

>>972331
And you missed my point. Modernist monstrosities like the Empire State Plaza also serve their function well (you want office space? you got office space) but much like the old churches, they were designed as comically large status symbols rather than something that would integrate into the existing landscape. Churches are in many cases the embodiment of buildings being designed as art pieces rather than as consumer products.

>>972416
>Churches are in many cases the embodiment of buildings being designed as art pieces rather than as consumer products.
Yes, i fully agree with you. But they were designed to look good from street level as opposed to from a birds eye view.

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>>972473
>>972416
When consuming modernist architecture, it's important to only accept product from the great minds, and not derivative garbage that copies the surface qualities of a building's skin without any understanding of how it fits into its environment

>>953198
I'm so sorry. I just got a job at a business park in Mississauga but I refuse to move out of Toronto. Its an hour long commute but I just take the bus and bear it

>>962129
I went to uni in smallish Canadian town after moving from a big city. I would bike to class and people just assumed I was a poverty case. They didn't realize I actually enjoy the outdoors and activity

The only other people that cycle here are crackeads and hobos on too-small mountain bikes

>>956996

Not a berner, but I am still surprised by his choice in auto.

>>957038
this!
(posting from a very walkably city in europe)

>>957038
>>car parking? Hell. And way further away from home.
good
>>957255
>All fun and games unless you actually have to use the car, m8
that's what rentals or care share programs are for. I legitimately need a car about twice a year, there is no reason to make my life miserable and spend tons of money just to satisfy the retarded cager belief that "what if I NEED to go driving RIGHT NOW". those kinds of situations don't happen, if they do there's Uber, and if I need it longer than that, I saw it coming and I just rented something for a day or two.

>>973770
So... if you need a car 50 times a year and live in a city were you basically can't own one. what would you do?

public transit for an hour (both trips), plus the time to actually rent it, everytime you need a car? probably not.

And at night? Bad public transportation and a 20 minute car ride turns into 60 minute travel time (bike or public transit).

>>943283

10/10 video, can't believe I'm only being exposed to this now.

>>973775
Seems to me you're selectively changing the variables. If the city is so dense that having a cage is impractical, I fail to see how owning one makes a 60 minute bike ride magically turn into a 20 minute commute unless you're avoiding rush hour traffic

My hour bike ride is about 35 minutes in a taxi if and only if I take that taxi in at 5am or go home at 12:45am

At rush hour it's not too different from a bike, and I can take my bike straight up to my office

>>958860

I live in Denver now so I can't really complain about booming colorado cities. It would be nice if we could just limit the outward growth. Like portland iirc has that city border limit where you can't build past it, and you have to infill. Keep the city reined in, plan it well, make the buildings themselves beautiful and worth living in and preserving, and keep nature as it is. I hate sprawl.

>>958861

>could have everything a nice walk
>instead build it spread to hell and force people to use cars
>what could have been a ten minute walk becomes a 30 minute commute in traffic

>wow, technology sure is great

All I see is idiocy and wastefulness.

>>959261
>Rent a car for the few times a year you need to do it.

This. Cost of car ownership is, for an old economy car, about $250 a month with the cost of purchase amortized over expected useful life and all expenses included. ymmv. Cost of walking/biking/transport: about $50 a month. Cost of renting a car: about $100 a day. Meaning if you take two day trips a month or fewer it's cheaper not to own the car. And that isn't factoring in cost of parking in the city, or renting parking space with your apartment complex. Personally I hate parking in the city so not having to deal with that has a lot of value.

>>961736

Light rails are bae.

>>962129
>waited 30 minutes for the bus and then spend 15 minutes riding it.

Other day I was at a bus stop and met a couple who had been waiting an hour and a half for the bus (it broke down, they were supposed to send another but didn't.) Their destination was a 40 minute walk. And honestly the fat bitch could have used the exercise.

Bus is okay but not a good solution, especially the ones that come hourly. They blow ass. Car and bus are great until they inevitably break down.

>>972305

Rent a car for the hiking. I /out/ and despite being carless have gone on four hikes to the mountains in the past two weeks. One I reached by public transport, rest were rideshares with other hikers. Also, if I use public transport plus a road bike I can reach a lot of hiking destinations. Bike n hike. :)

>>973770

Another good point. Uber/lyft are excellent. Yet cheaper even than renting a car on occasion.

>>973775

Buy a scooter/moped/electric bike.

>>943283
Oh wow I complain a lot about my city but jesus fuck compared to those examples this is heaven on earth even with it's defect and occasional shitty buildings that don't fit in.

t. klaus

>>973794
> And at night?

>>973797
>Buy a scooter/moped/electric bike.
Exactly. I plan to buy a moped or motorcycle again. (I owned a motorcycle once, but got into an accident)

>>973795
>Like portland iirc has that city border limit where you can't build past it, and you have to infill.
Portland's (this is the one in OR?) sprawl is partly contained by the shape of the land. There are parts round it where building would be... difficult, even without the strict zoning laws.

>>947496

I'd much rather drive than live all dindu-packed like that. Living in a 400 sq.ft sliver of a house, no thanks.

>>974161
>live all dindu-packed like that
>dindus
>europe
>lookeveryoneimprojecting.png
sure is /pol/ in here

>Living in a 400 sq.ft sliver of a house, no thanks
enjoy your mcmansion while living in a depressing suburb with no nice city center to hang around in. I'd much rather live on 400 sqft than live in an american "city" made of strip malls, parking lots and high rises.

>>974196
>enjoy your mcmansion while living in a depressing suburb with no nice city center to hang around in. I'd much rather live on 400 sqft than live in an american "city" made of strip malls, parking lots and high rises

Meh still better than living on a cramped, overcrowded and expensive island.

I live in the good part of Canada so I can walk/bike/drive and chill downtown or drive 30 minutes and fall off a mountain or get eaten by a Grizzly if I want.

checkm8

>>943184
Montreal is walkable and super cheap. you just gotta know french to get a job

>>962129
>30 minutes for the bus and then spend 15 minutes riding it.
kek, that's why i stopped taking the bus to walk back in high school. The damn thing took 50 minutes to get to the school when I could just walk for half an hour instead.

>>973795
>portland iirc has that city border limit where you can't build past it
I've read about that. Wasn't there some trouble with people just outside the limit that sued the city for "lost potential income" because they were hoping to sell their land to housing developments and the like

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Western /n/ tards think walkable cities mean medium to medium low density suburban cities.

What it really is are ultra high density high rise cities like Tokyo.

>>974707
Those can be comfy too. Just because it looks like shit from above doesn't mean that the city is shit from ground level.

>>974707
>Western /n/ tards think walkable cities mean medium to medium low density suburban cities

Literally who thinks this?

>>974707
1. who think this?

2. Of course, walking from shinjuku to odaiba would take you at least 3 hours and it's not even half the city. hardly something 'walkable'

>>974736
Walkable means you can buy groceries and go to work and go out for a drink without getting in a car. It doesn't mean trying to walk across the entire city.

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walkability is: "The extent to which the built environment is friendly to the presence of people living, shopping, visiting, enjoying or spending time in an area".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkability

I would say a city should not just be walk-able, it should be a pleasure to walk. It also should make pedestrian live better by providing easy access to public transport.

>>974034
What about at night? If the majority of your trips are happening drunk and at 3 AM you're not a typical person, and you should consider making more extensive use of taxis since you can obviously afford to spend $70 on drinks every night.

>>973791

Here's another decent one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy4QjmKzF1c

>>974817
you are making assumptions.

What are the main factors that affect walkability other than one's proximity to work and essential needs?

>>977707
just look at
>>974810

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>>977707
n1. fuck the cagers

(This used to be the main arterial through the city center. )

>>977808
>fuck the cagers
this a thousand times. 90% of problems with urban space stem from cars getting the vast majority of space, even though in dense cities they often represent just a small part of people moving around. Focusing on more efficient alternatives like transit, bikes and walking means freeing up shitloads of space.

>>977821
>30 km/h on all streets
>parking only on designated spots
>absolute priority for pedestrians (no crosswalks)
>no curbs
This would fix everything

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>>977808
>>977821

Anway, here is how it used to look.

You can almost see the actual improved happiness on peoples' faces

>>977827
>>absolute priority for pedestrians (no crosswalks)
Only part I disagree. Highest priority has to be for public transit, so it can follow a tight schedule and be efficient.

>>977837
Basing public transport on trams/trains would take care if that problem.

Empirically, what makes for an environment which encourages walking, cycling and public transport use?

Ausfag here. I've lived in Melbourne, Launceston and Brisbane before. Brisbane's public transport is expensive, filled with abbos and slow af. So it encourages driving. Seasonally it's either wet or hot or hot and wet, so cycling takes a hit as well.

Melbourne is great. Cheap, frequent and the city is pretty centralised. Cycling is good there. I think they would benefit from doing a car free cbd but otherwise it's fantastic.

Launceston is spread out, shit but cheap pt and has a nasty cold season. Rent is cheap so cbd living requires no car or even bike but as soon as you are in the Burbs it's cage zone. Not a lot of riding infrastructure but small enough city to not need it. Riding is pretty good here.

>>977840
Trams have to obey traffic lights as well, and putting down heavy rail on the surface of city streets makes no sense at all. Nor does it make sense to have trams for very lightly travelled routes, which still should offer good and fast service albeit not quite so frequent and using smaller vehicles.

>>977842
Well, the most important thing is having somewhere to go. You can't just add "walkability features" to a suburb and have a decent town, because there's still no density. If you can't get to a store, a bar, a coffee shop, or a breakfast place in 10 minutes walking, people aren't going to bother. Ideally, a lot of that stuff would be right next door. Public transit is similar, because what you really want is a few commercial streets with a lot of people nearby to run your buses or trams down. Stick a train station in the center of town and boom, public transit accomplished.

Traffic calming and big sidewalks and car-free areas and engaging streetscapes and all that are nice, but they can't fix a fundamental problem of nowhere to go.

Bikes are a bit odder, because they're more like cars. If you've got bike lanes or trails everywhere, people -will- bike around even if town is somewhat spread out, which makes is a decent first step for densifying suburban hell areas.

>>953027
Arnsberg?

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Montevideo, 1.5m pop, is a great city to develop some sort of bipolar disorder.

Pre-70s architecture is spectacular. Art decó, art noveau, colonial, modernist, even some local take on streamline moderne that was HUGE and it's everywhere. You find something new with every walk, as its buildings are so crammed too.
>But goverment and construction firms can't stop bulldozing these just to make cheap money and labor. These guys are challenging themselves to build the ugliest buildings and the most toxic urban projects of all time. Also, there's a low life culture that vandalize them for fun.

Great to walk. Every neighborhood has lots of small shops and street markets near. Even if you need to go downtown for more specific errands, I think it couldn't take more than 2 hours from side to side.
>In recent years niggers are all around in the street looking for trouble and whatever they can take from you. Used to go to gigs downtown and come home on foot at 4am, talking with friends, 35 blocks. Not anymore.

It's mid-distance travelling most of the time to go to work, study or friends. Should not take more than 30min to reach anywhere.
>This is infuriating. Drivers are very aggressive towards bikers for the small slow-paced city it is. Government do not invest in bikes, neither in the corporate owned public transport. It's all about importing the lowest of new Chinese cars and buses.

We had a wonderful walkable and bikeable city, with beaches and lots of parks, but the new Uruguayan is too amused by new malls, appliances and cars.

My goal is to get everyone else on public transit of using alternate means of transport so the traffic is better for me.

>>974037
Motorcycles are great as long as they're small, agile, and lightweight enough. If you get to the larger touring bikes you could as well be driving a convertible cage.

Dual sport and small to medium(<750cc) adventure bikes are the goat motorcycles.

>>978955
That is such a sad story ;-(

>>979016
Same as that anon described applies to most latin american cities

>>979031
More like any cities in developing countries. They had something that worked well without cars because people didn't have cars and they designed stuff that worked well for that. Now they get a sudden influx of money and want to copy Americans in everything and be better than others are. They do this by buying fancy cars and turning their once beautiful and practical cities into sufferable congested wastelands.

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>tfw they want to turn this asphalt desert into a local 2x1 road
>it's a good feel

>>979036
"insufferable"
Can anyone comment on Bogota? They have things like the Ciclovia which makes me think things might be better there.

>>980966
What is a local 2x1 road? That boulevard looks pretty great to me. Except for missing cycle infra.

>>980967
In reality it's an insufferable place
>constant noise
>narrow sidewalks
>as you said, no biking infrastructure
>nowhere to sit
>you can't walk on the strip of green

2x1 is one lane in each direction. They also want to build tram tracks there.

>>980968
The cagers must be livid

>>980968
>nowhere to sit

you realize that's a street and not a park, right?

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>>980984
It's a goddamn main boulevard in the city.
Also, when they built it it was meant to be park-y

>tfw just want to live in a good, safe, european city where I can rely on walking, bikes, and public transpo for everything
I want off this American ride

>>981357
>tfw American cities used to be like this but all the old buildings and infrastructure were demolished because "progress"
absolutely disgusting, it's commie tier is what it is

>>973795
> Cost of car ownership is, for an old economy car, about $250 a month

lol the CAA (canadian auto association) estimates average annual cost of owning/operating a car at $9000 including amortization

>>974737
this. It means that outside of exceptional circumstances, everything you need for day to day living is a short walk/transport ride away

>>977837
this. transit should always have a dedicated RoW

>>978957
I hope every lane you drive on is replaced by sidewalks, LRT and bike lanes

Fun fact, my mom made my family move from the classic cookie cutter 90's burbs to an older neighborhood closer to downtown simply because she could walk more places (work, us kids could walk to school, walk downtown etc). She had the right idea. House was built in 1916 too, a true patrician's home. Comfy hood

>>974206
A L B E R T A

C A L G A R Y

>>978957
Traffic will never disappear. It's impossible in any medium or large sized city. There's a very simple reasoning behind it:
Imagine a city where there's no traffic. Suddenly, everyone would think "hey there's no traffic, I'll drive a car" and there'd be traffic again.

You can't get rid of traffic, it automatically fills up available road space, and it's a physical impossibility to have enough roadspace for it to not fill up, except obviously in small villages.

However, the same reasoning works inversely: If there's traffic, people will take transit if they can to avoid traffic. The less convenient driving is, the more convenient transit is in proportion to it. So, the less convenient driving becomes, more and more people will stop driving. Thus traffic adapts to less roadspace.

>you will never be able to drive in a city without traffic
>deal with it

>>981707
Even if you pass laws to make cars inconvenient?

>>984492
>>981707
road pricing is the only way to ensure sustainably uncongested roads. Cagers should have to pay for the infrastructure, environmental and health damage they cause our cities

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hello /n/ i am an american cager

what happens here? i always see these little dark pits everywhere in old european towns blocked off from the outside

>>985269
Those are courtyards.

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what the hell ARE they they fucking bother me

I wouldn't live in an area without a +90 walk score

>>985273
whats inside of them? trash or something? parking?

>>985298
They are used as light wells and living spaces. Sometimes parking. I've also seen them used for beer gardens and bistros.

https://www.walkscore.com/

>>985274
>hates atriums

literally a pleb

>>985320
>Can walk from one end of the town to the other in 20m
>plenty of bikepaths
>public transport
>34 walkability score

pretty shitty algorithms

>>985439
It's a measure of how much you can accomplish by walking. Transit and biking don't figure into it, and you need to be able to reach jobs, services, and retail by walking.

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>>985320
>Walk Score 70
>mfw I'm OP

>>985320
>walk score 14
>car-dependant
>mfw there is a shop that has all the necessities less than a km away
>mfw I haven't used my car in the last 4 weeks
>mfw the last time I did use my car was to travel 250 km
>mfw all this while working full time and living a normal life
>mfw I have no face
That score is nothing more than a feel good metric for people living in suburbs who use their cars for everything

>Walk score: 60
>Transit score: 72
>Bike score: 66
Not bad, I guess

>>985498
Wait a sec this site is fucked, I just looked at the map and it shows an entirely different neighborhood 20 miles away

Picked a place near my apartment and the score changed to:
>walk score: 94
>transit score: 94
>bike score: 58
lol

>78 walk
>48 transit
>88 bike

>mfw I live one block from a major bike trail, totally separated from cageville, that goes right downtown one way and to a major suburb/shopping/financial district the other
>multiple grocery stores within a mile
>multiple restaurants, cafes, and bars nearby

Feels good.

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>>985721
Actually scratch that, moved the pin closer to my house. Check it.

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>>985320
71 for my city of Toronto, but I live in the good part. I feel sorry for suburb dwellers both in my city and everywhere else.

Im eternally grateful for my parents for moving into the city. They both despised the suburbs growing up

>>985488
lol, for sudbury? how? when I've been there I got the impression that the city was one big suburb

>>985500
what city?

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>>986015
My apartment's just outside downtown, but even then...there's one grocery store "near" me, and downtown is pathetic (most "stores" are bars or clubs; there's a large mall, but it's dying - nick nack shops and nail salons, half the shops are closed, etc.).

I mean, I get by without a car, but I need an entire day set aside to run errands, and even then I take the bus because there's no way in Hell I'd be able to do them all on foot.

>>985298
Practically anything. Often gardens since parking and rubbish tends to be on streets when there aren't any driveways (at least here in Bongland) or, if it's a pub or something, they're often beer gardens like >>985300 says. Tiny urban gardens like these can be comfy af when done right. Also it's in my experience surprisingly common to find old WW2 air raid shelters being used as garden sheds in those areas of London

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Based Ottawa, ON. I love biking in this city.

>>986419
>Also it's in my experience surprisingly common to find old WW2 air raid shelters being used as garden sheds in those areas of London
i would like to see a pic of this

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>>985320
>18 walk score

fuuuuck this place.

>>986442
Lived there for a bit; used to love cycling along the river path and then over into Gatineau Park

>>972329
Flat on Danforth between Greenwood and Coxwell. 1200 + hydro. 800ish sq ft, and I work at Bay and Queens Quay

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>>943180
I live in a walkable and veloable city

most people choose the bicycle because you know, why the fuck not.

>>986017
new york

it gave my neighborhood bike demerits for having hills, lol

weak babby legs faggots running this site

>>985320
>Unsupported country
Lame site

>>987406
>Unsupported country
Same here, but I still got 86

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>live in fairly walkable city
>its 90 degrees in the shade

>>987644
What shithole is that?

>>987650
Looks like miami

>>947496
I love Groningen so much. I miss going to grad school there and riding my 50 lb bike everywhere.

I'm American btw.

>live a bit outside dallas
>want to shoot myself seeing this thread

it's hot as fuck, humid sometimes, and its very car oriented

fucking 80% humidity during recent nights because it's too hot to ride in 105 weather

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I'm reading Downtown by Robert Fogelson
and I guess most north american cities were set to be unwalkable suburban commuter messes since the mid to early 1840s even before the automobile and highway revolution in the 1950s

feels bad man

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JUST

>>987712
>I guess most north american cities were set to be unwalkable suburban commuter messes since the mid to early 1840s even before the automobile and highway revolution in the 1950s

Can you give a short/long summary of the main argument for this claim?

i wish i had a driver's license

>>988047
Well Im still reading it but in the first chapter he talks about how in nyc in the 1840s a new trend of concentrating all business and retail into one location and removing 99% of residents from these areas(as opposed to most european cities where retail and businesses were dispersed over the city and had residents living in the uppers floors above the business)
Not to say that some concentration of business isn't good but as a result people ended up moving farther and farther "uptown" to live in suburban houses and take trains and streetcars and people in turn began to think that it is normal and desirable to live very far away from where you live and have long commutes. And that's how people kept planning cities thinking that they should be tiny highly concentrated depopulated places of business surrounded by miles and miles of low density suburbs

>>943180
This is literally the reason I moved out of Ontario, to Europe. Canada (possibly US too) is currently an uninhabitable wasteland and will continue to be so for probably several more centuries.

>>986442
what neighbourhood?
is it worth living in ottawa if you have to live outside the greenbelt?

>>988685
>living outside the greenbelt

"No."

It's the same in Torono; once you get North of it, everything just becomes shit (cookie cut suburbs, pathetic transit (if any), no bike lanes, hills everywhere, "new world" layout (all the shops are on one or two streets, either in strip malls or malls, all away from residential areas), etc.).

>>987681

iktf. I live up in Plano, all I see are churches and grocery stores. It's getting a bit more bikeable though.

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But I live next to my work

>>989471
holy jesus, fuck LA
kill it with fire

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I'm a bit annoyed about the 85, but until we weld the cagers inside their cages and convert them into environmentally sound coral reefs, nothing will change. far too much local infrastructure is dedicated to cagers and their vile way of life.

>>989495

No no anon, first build wall with no gates to keep the residents in, then kill it with fire. California would be a fantastic place if we just killed all the commiefornians.

>>988060

I have a license but still cycle everywhere. I don't even own a cage anymore. Waste of money.

>>989504
>>989504
> weld the cagers inside their cages and convert them into environmentally sound coral reefs

easy there linkola

also where do you live? Im legit jealous

>>951004
go back to /o/

>>988072
I've never understood American city zoning. Not having any businesses in the residential areas is just simply bad for business. Having comfy shops, cafes, and restaurants on the ground floors and residential apartments in the upper floors is how cities are meant to be built.

>>990452
Retail businesses need to be staffed
Shopkeepers don't want to pay much
White people don't want jobs that don't pay much
Ergo, retail businesses require blacks
Blacks coming into the area on their socialist mass transit and mingling with the white folks is an affront to morality
Anyone who suggests otherwise is literally trying to exterminate all whites

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>>985320
Pretty decent for burgerland

>>990133
NYC

>>989471
>greenbelt
are you a prison guard?

>>990517
>>989471
>But I live next to my work
meant to quote this

>>957323
idk man, one of the main factors in my quality of life is just plain old fucking no-earplugs-needed peace and quiet. it's like night and day for my peace of mind. I've spent the last 30-odd years learning to deal with noise and I have made a lot of progress but I still can't stomach the idea of living someplace noisy. I've done it, did my best to adjust, but it just didn't work. moving back to a small town was like taking off a corset two sizes too small.

then there's the difference in housing costs. I live in a little town 20 minutes from a small-to-medium-sized city and my mortgage + maintenance + car costs isn't much more than what I'd pay for your average noisy shitty apartment half the size, with inadequate soundproofing, surrounded by loud inconsiderate people, in the city. and trying to find an actual quiet, decently-soundproofed apartment there at all, regardless of size...idk man. maybe it could be done? maybe I don't know the right people or something, but the only halfway peaceful living spaces I have been in were detached homes or maybe a duplex. in any case, it's quiet all the time except for lawnmowers, and I never have to worry about their crotchgoblins stomping everywhere or someone keying my car because I called the cops about their dumb stereo for the fifteenth time this week.

not saying everybody has noise issues like I do, or that everybody should live in a bunch of gross-ass sprawl either. but a lot of people choose to live in quieter, more far-flung areas for a fucking reason, not just because muh murrica. I'm willing to bet that if the noise factor were better compensated for, there will likely be more people willing to live in cities.

>>957026
>>950249
There was some lecture on urban planning I saw where the guy said that all of the good examples of neighborhoods/parts of cities in America could never be made nowadays because it would all be 100% illegal and against code

America is so depressing

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>>991604

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-percent-of-manhattans-buildings-could-not-be-built-today.html?_r=0

feels bad man

>>950247
>>950249
European here. Those cities are a pain in the ass for stores to receive their goods. Bruges had to install a beer pipeline through the city because trucks were damaging and taking up space in the small roads.

>>991604
that's not exclusive to the US

>>994261
a complete non-issue

>tfw you will never be emperor mayor of a major north American city in the 1880s
>tfw you will never ban personal use automobiles from your city limits
>tfw you will never mandate that all service vehicles entering your city must be electric also
>tfw you will prioritize bikes and pedestrians on the streets and set a great foundation for future mass transit and public transportation
>tfw you will never start a charity giving bikes to the underclass thus strengthening the supply of cyclists and boosting your economy

Are American cities beyond saving? Can we turn it around?

>>994261
>beer pipeline
>bad thing
fuck's wrong with you man, I'd gladly put in a beer pipelien

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>tfw when walkable but on a fucking hill all over

>>995795
American cities were decent before the second world war, good planning practices can turn it around but the reason it won't be turned around (at least anytime soon that is) is because it would require a drastic change in lifestyle, something that morbidly obese and poorly educated people simply refuse to do.

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>>995795
No, there is no hope. See OP.

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>>995845
Why do Americans insist on having commercial stuff located so far away from residential housing? You can build a small little grocery store there and have most of your needs met and you can just walk there without having to take your shitty SUV to the crappy buy-in-bulk megamart so you can diagnosed with heart disease 30 years later from eating shitty cheap processed food.

>>995852
zoning laws man
our government is owned by the kikes that run the oil industry
so when they write policy books for city zoning codes, they make sure nothing is well layed out and convenient

its not the americans at fault, its the fucking jews

>>995852
>>995872
Yeah, I never understood this about suburban developments. In older parts of towns, there are plenty of small restaurants/small grocery stores/other shop on nearly every streetcorner, while newer developments are blighted wastelands.

>>995845
wew, looks like a concentration camp

>>995852
>>995872
>>995878
>why
The problem is that our zoning codes originated in an era in which the goal was to make sure that nobody could ruin your healthful, bucolic suburb-in-a-park by building a smelly factory (complete with 5AM steam whistles) next door, and the housing would be decent. Making sure that people lived in good houses, instead of cramped tenements without light and air, or drafty frame houses built over open cesspits, was a noble goal.

But then after WW2, the US government decided it was a really good idea to subsidize single family housing, and many Americans were quite happy that they could move to the suburbs instead of sharing their cities with negroes, but the zoning codes were stuck 50 years in the past: business and residences needed to be kept strictly separate no matter what. The generic sprawling subdivisions that carpet our landscapes today are a result of 60+ years of post WW2 policy that has become a vicious cycle: city grows outwards, larger roads are needed, commerce and industry is concentrated in small areas, city sprawls ever further out, roads must get bigger, houses must get bigger to remain appealing, small-scale commerce and industry suffers even in places where it's allowed... and on you go until you have massive belts around cities that are nothing but generic 'McMansions' inside a grid of roads are bigger than rural Interstate Highways.

>>995845
This looks sad.

>>995892
Nice post, thanks.
Are there any good examples of cities which have prevented or are reversing suburban sprawl?

>>995939
detroit is at the end stage of urban sprawl and might be undergoing a slow reversal within the next couple years but it all depends if the local planning department can do what they need to do

I can't even walk to my local sandwich shop becuause I'll get hit by a car. No crosswalks or sidewalks.

>>996080
Make some guerilla infrastructure

>>995939
Residential intensification is something we're seeing all across the new world. From Melbourne to Montreal, new homeowners are more likely to buy in the city than in the suburbs, younger generations haven't been weened on petrol as much, and see the virtues in public transport, cycling, ride sharing etc. many kids that also grew up in burbs don't want to impose that on their children.

I grew up in a first ring suburb of a major city that was developed at the turn of the century and is clustered around a commuter train station and a commercial mainstreet. It's 5 miles or so from downtown and a 10 minute train ride. Even then I found it very secluded and I only liked growing up their in my childhood, it was nothing but suffering in my adolescence. I now live in an apartment closer to downtown and I'm very happy.

>>995845
the new world was a mistake

>>996172
theres a big reversal in north america where millenials with financial means are moving back into cities. Suburbs are slowly becoming more minority inhabited because rent is driven down by lack of demand. Its soon going to be the opposite of white flight, where the professional class lives near city centres while the poor are relegated to suburbs where city services and transit are lacking

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>>996199
It honestly was.

Pic related, where I used to live. That gigantic grey splotch by the highway is all industrial, every other grey splotch is retail (standalone or in a mall, as is tradition in North America).

At least they planted a lot of trees to pretty up the endless suburbs...

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>>996205
And where I lived before that (during childhood, mind).

About the same. Endless suburbs with shopping along the main roads, standalone or in a mall. At least they threw in a few apartment buildings here and there, and the stores were a bit closer together (you could even WALK!).

It's still New World "city" "planning" though. No cure for that.

>>995872
jewish people aren't the beneficiaries of the oil industry. back to /pol/ chuckelfuck

In the US, isn't suburban sprawl often a result of the insane high housing and living costs that exist in walk able urban areas?

In Europe, the average person can live downtown in a big city. A place like NYC you need to have the salary of a rockstar or a big time investment banker to be able to afford to live there.

I grew up in a small town about 100 miles from NYC. Most of the residents commuted that distance because the mortgage/rent was a fraction of the cost, although in exchange for a long commute.

>>996206
>DDO
lel
>>996236
No US urban areas usually had really low property value because of redlining, see south central LA, southside Chicago, Harlem, Bronx etc. these are all geographically valuable and will be gentrified. (Maybe not south central)

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Torino is pretty walkable.
The perfect balance betwen small and big city,best public transportation i ever seen,and plenty of parking spots,but there arent many cars in the city desu

>>996236
>In the US, isn't suburban sprawl often a result of the insane high housing and living costs that exist in walk able urban areas?

Not exactly

Planning laws in the US (and much of europe too actually) makes it VERY easy to build new single-family homes on the periphery of cities, and VERY hard to build new apartment buildings/townhouses within the city

Therefore new homes in the sprawl have prices that tend towards the cost of construction, whereas new homes downtown get very expensive because demand is high but supply isn't allowed to catch up

>In Europe, the average person can live downtown in a big city

Some cities yes but not all cities. Some Euro cities have San Francisco-tier planning restrictions leading to very high housing costs as well

>>996319
>San Francisco-tier planning restrictions leading to very high housing costs as well
I'm really starting to get tired of this meme. San Francisco is an incredibly dense city, second only to NYC. What's driving up costs in many urban neighborhoods is conversion of 3 family flats into SFH Mcmansions and SF is no stranger to this. I can't wait for all those high-rises near the trans-bay terminal to prove every new-urbanist wrong and create sky-high property value hikes anywhere in their proximity. Nowhere where luxury condo towers or apartments have been built has there been any "cooling" in that local housing market, in fact it's quite the opposite. The only option to build truly affordable housing is creation of co-ops and projects, which don't have to be bad if they're designed properly.

>>944911
Hey, I just left Missoula a couple of months ago.

>>996371
who is that retarted
google types will flood those towers in an instant, fuck man, I got a job offer in SF paying 120K and I was going to split a place with my asian bro because we are cheap. Literally who the fuck thinks this.

(please be lying please)

I've been thinking lately about this stuff and want to run a possible line of argument by you guys:

Cities and states in the US, by imposing practical barriers to the free movement of anyone who cannot operate or afford a private automobile, have abridged their citizens' right to peaceable assembly, which is protected by the 1st Amendment.

>>996371
SF is not "incredibly dense". It has parts that are quite dense by American standards, and then it has parts that don't even break 10k/sqmi. The average is 17k/sqmi, which, for a booming city on a peninsula, is ridiculously low. Those low density areas cannot be densified because of building restrictions. Not only that, but the entire region is notorious for restrictions on building, which results in silliness like San Jose, which ought to have some of the most valuable land in the country, having a density comparable to a midwest college town.

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>>996371
you're wrong

1. the vast majority of SF has a height limit of two stories, that's a major restriction which prevents new supply

2.
>luxury condo towers or apartments have been built has there been any "cooling" in that local housing market, in fact it's quite the opposite

also wrong:
http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2016/08/19/rent-increases-slow-dramatically-as-increased-construction-catches-up-with-demand/

new condo towers go for the top of the market because it's the only way they'll be profitable, but the construction still satisfies some demand

>The only option to build truly affordable housing is creation of co-ops and projects, which don't have to be bad if they're designed properly.

This is the kind of thinking that gets you the nation's highest property prices in the first place

>>996371
>San Francisco is an incredibly dense city

lel, good one. enjoy your NIMBY neighborhood councils keeping the zoning density low and driving house prices thought the roof.

>>996371

Same thing happening in big cities in italia. Rich families buy all the floors of historical appartament buildings,and make it all 1 home for themselves. This lowers the density in the city centre,which is nice,less people, living there. Also here they are building alot of places to live,on very nice hoods for people

>>996473
>Those low density areas cannot be densified because of building restrictions.
Cannot because law = change law and it can. Duh.

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I like my city but you're better off living in the outskirts where you can have a comfortable house with a garden, garage and get to work as opposed to in between the city halls where you'd lose 30 minutes every day just getting on the highway in peak hour

>>996694
i don't want a garden or a car and i like living fairly close to downtown and riding my bike around

different strokes, friend

>>996498
>dat london
christ on the cross thats insane

>>943203
Even before the automobile, American cities were designed with wide streets.

Now Southern cities that largely grew in the post war years have tiny walkable centers but everything around it is spawl for automobiles.

>>994261
Does the city overall suffer for it though?

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>>947496
they are nice except for one crippling flaw - they are inhabited by the dutch

>>947496
Too islamic

>arguing with someone who is complaining about traffic
>say if more people used bikes or public transit, there would be fewer cars on the road and less traffic
>they get mad at me and say it's impossible to not use a car
>when we live in the same city and myself and thousands of others use transit and/or bikes
>when I don't even own a car yet can reach anywhere within a 35 mile radius with a combo of transit and bike

I think telling cagers to take personal responsibility for the traffic they help cause triggers a neural meltdown where they go full retard. I mean, just say you're too lazy and selfish to do it, don't try to imply as contrary to blatant evidence that bike commuting is impossible.

Walkscore even ranks my city as a "bike paradise." We're far from a cager centric hellhole like houston.

>>996080

Buy several dozen eggs and a slingshot. Leave the eggs out in the heat for a month so they get ripe. Aim for open windows. This world has forsaken you, so take revenge.

>>995852

It's "cheaper". Instead of using closer, more expensive land reasonably to build condensed stores, we build sprawling marts with enough floorspace to accomodate a university campus inside, and a sprawling cagelot on top of it. So you "have" to build it in the boons where land is cheap, and just make everyone drive to and from.

Feels good that I can walk to like four different grocery stores, even though most people use their cage anyway.

>>995872

No, no, goyim. It's pure coincidence.

But no really, the oil industry has undermined every public transit project in the nation since cages became a thing. If it weren't for them we would have COMFY rails all over and cable cars and light rails and probably bullet trains. Instead we poured all our infrastructure resources into sprawling cager hell rivers of asphault and onramps and eight lane highways through the middle of cities.

>>995939

It was either portland or seattle that said, no more urban sprawl, and stopped development past a certain point, going instead for infill.

>>996172

This. Living in burbs is suffering. Nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing around but cookie cutter houses with anally attended to lawns.

>>996203

This is my vision of paradise.

>>996236

Not really. A mortgage on a mcmansion is more than rent in the city. The previous generation were asspained consumer whores who wanted insane floorspace to put all their crap, and thought a 2 bed apartment was "puny" and "impossible to live in". So they bought the biggest fucking house they could get a loan for, even if it cost them a two hour each way daily commute and massive cage related costs. So every member of the family can sit in a separate room and watch separate television screens all day, and be far enough away from one another that you need yell to be heard.

I live in the downtown of a major city just fine on less than 20k a year (I make more than that obviously but why spend if i don't need anything else?) City rent is NOT expensive outside of maybe 3 or 4 astronomically expensive cities. Or hell, god knows that somehow restaurant waiters and convenience store attendants find a way to live in new york city. There are affordable rents, but cagers want giant houses. Then they give "it's expensive" as an excuse, but that was never the real reason because the math and logic don't hold up.

This generation is different. We don't want a ton of crap--our phone and laptop do everything. So there's a flood back into cities, and also a drop in consumer purchases of junk. People buy less, thrift stores are trendy, why? Because we stopped buying to fill the hole, and found living in a decent place was the true solution, not some soulless and sterile burb five thousand miles away from everything. Kids who were raised in the burbs and knew the misery of that isolation now throw everything away to live in a city. And cities are coming back to life.

Being from jersey I know your feel. Half the state commutes to philly, half to jew york shitty. I thought that lifestyle of sitting in a car in absurdly dense 70+ mph traffic every morning and evening was suicide level retarded, so I moved. Fuck that place. One of the worst cager hell holes I've ever been to.

>>996459
>SF

One of the dirtiest and most crime filled cities I have ever been to. And I've spent time in baltimore, philly, nyc, ac, newark, camden, buffalo, and other delights. The level of druggies and crazies is SF is through the roof on top of it.

On the other hand the food and transport were phenomenal. I never waited more than five minutes for a bus there. I'd probably move there, but only if I carried mace or a tazer everywhere.

What surprised me was all the buildings were low lying except in downtown. I mean, why not redevelop the 3 story townhouses into apartment towers? Not like you can build outwards given it has water on three sides. Like nigger build UP. Personally I love skyscrapers and apartment towers. If everything were ten stories tall it would be comfy, like walking through a forest of glass and concrete. More apartments = cheaper rent. Why not? Downtown areas have skyscrapers and everyone thinks they're beautiful and photogenic.

>>996464

>implying anyone cares about constitutional rights

We have half the country trying to throw the first and second into the trash as we speak.

>>943180
because non-drivers are faggots and deserve to get shit on

>>995845
Almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter

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>>959197
>>959198
build elevators then