Why don't overcrowded metro systems just use double deck

>>1037974
doing that would massively increase the complexity of railcars and station platforms without offering a significant improvement over a doubledeck car with an internal staircase

>>1037976
>without offering a significant improvement over a doubledeck car with an internal staircase
More evenly distributed doors and a dwell time as a single deck train.

>>1037974
Because it would not have a good benefit to cost ratio and therefore won't be done. Maybe in China on some superproject.

>>1038068
Build taller tunnels.

>>1037974
the closest thing we're ever going to get in this regard is likely high-frequency s-bahn networks

>>1037974
where to get the money to rebuild every fucking station for that train?

>>1038155
With my extra-tall TBM, sure. That'll work.

>>1037933
If station dwell times are the limiting factor, longer single deck trains are a much better value solution.

I have a better idea. Build regular sized train cars but with extra layers. Everyone has to crawl in and lay flat on their stomachs, that way you can stack people three to four times as high in the same amount of space. Also nobody has to fight for seats because now everyone just lays. This means you can't fall over either. There won't be annoying train musicians because you can't play an accordeon on your stomach. Eating and drinking on the train will also be harder. In case of a crash a giant airbag will inflate at the front and everyone will just safely slide into that. At the stops, the entire side of the train opens up and the floors move up on one side, forming a ramp and dumping everyone onto the station floor. So nobody will be blocking the door anymore. Then you just leave the station if it's your stop. If it's not your stop you just have to get back in, it's easy. It literally solves all of our transportation problems.

I call it the laytrain.

This will revolutionize metros around the world, mark my words.

>>1038362
I'd use this.

>>1037974
why not just increase interval

why not just have one, really long train over the whole system so it never technically leaves the station and is always at the station

why not just do away with doors and windows and walls so people can get on at any time

>>1038362
> all the top flats are taken
> have to go on a bottom flat
> it's 1 inch below the walking platform
> people keep walking infront of your face, kicking dust up at you
> a soda can rolls and bumps into you, sputtering flecks of sugar water in your eye
> the train comes to a sudden stop, the pool of urine two pods over starts seeping into your area, soaking your clothes
> you shimmy backwards in disgust, but are unable to get up because the walking platform is packed with people who don't want to lay in the bottom pods
> as more and more people shuffle into the platform they kick up the salty liquid into your face,
> you yell and plead for them to make room as you choke on the dust and filth making it's way into your lungs
> In your confusion you didn't notice a hand protruding from the pod above you
> Despite your male gender the indiscriminate hand begins to grope your unusually feminine form
> The wall of selfish feet continue to block your way, refusing to submit themselves to the same bottom-shelf trauma you're experiencing

>>1037974
The only benefit to this kind of system is that it puts all passengers a little bit closer to the "main" exit of the station, and halves the LENGTH of platform required at a station. In this day and age you can imagine that having a benefit because of the way land cost works (you pay for the ground square, not the air)

ok but really, why not to do this:
• because all current systems deal with a certain height right now, even if you wanted to make a completely new system, it would lock you out of using older rail systems to expand in the future.
• Building up is expensive, and building higher tunnels is costly as well.
• Investing in engines and running trains twice as often would have the same effect.
• All current car manufacturers build for the single height, less manufacturers capable of building your car means higher price.

>>1038362

I would fund this if I could

File: download (16).jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>1037974
In Ontario our commuter trains are double decker but there are stairs in them, not double decker platforms

>>1038717
Getting sugar water in your eyes sucks so hard. Sticky eyes is no fun.

>>1038631
So just one of those moving walkways? I don't think they can go that fast, and people can't be packed anywhere near as tightly, but if it's wide enough to fit as many people as possible and don't care about how they'd be able to get on and off (or stay standing up and not thrown to their death and crushed underneath it) you could probably get it reasonably fast, for any people who survive.

>>1038718
Having a shorter platform doesn't really save that much land, they still need to have the tunnel, the space used by a narrow walkway a few feet wide is probably less than the amount used for the power cables and signals in the tunnels.

>>1038736
same in madrid

>>1038736
Boston has some like that too, but commuter rail trains are a lot different from subways where people are constantly getting on and off and they have to fit in tunnels.

File: download (15).jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

GO train
Good name imo

>>1038761
The commuter rail DOES occasionally go into tunnels or under bridges and all of Back Bay station is underground but it has to be designed to accommodate the taller trains. In Boston that's the case but in a lot of places it might not be.

>>1038736
>>1038761
>All double deckers in operation
>>1038792
Japan uses double decker green cars with standard heights.

>>1038205
Double deckers on S-Bahn mode/length of journey could work.

>>1038361
>>1037974
>double deck stations
Expand and add more platforms. Done.
Metro won't work well with quadruple/triple tracks if not designed for that. The best way in most existing system, without adding a new line, is to do the above to accompany more trains or allow for passing.

>>1038809
Should say underground rail.

https://mobile.twitter.com/muttsurishoukai/status/761855032396349440

http://m.huffpost.com/jp/entry/12112440
A certain mayor in Tokyo share same thought as you

File: 1e7b08bd-ml.jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>1038832
Koike has an imagination. Although I imagine JR wouldn't budge since they're pretty happy as it is

>>1038361
Issue with that is the need for longer signal blocks or at the very least, larger gaps between trains. It's why the commuter lines in Tokyo with 15 car trains generally max out at 20 per hour, whereas the 10 car ones do up to 30 (and 34 in the case of the Marunouchi with its 6 car trains)

>>1039252
how about toei system?

>>1038361
MTR in hong kong is now going to shorten train length on a line that have reached max passenger capacity from 12 car to 9 car because the train line will be extended to somewhere that cannot fit platform with 12 car length. They claim the hourly transportation capability of the line can be maintained because shortening the train allow them to reduce the interval between two trains. I guess lengthening it would cause its reverse.

I know TFL is looking at 40 TPH for the Victoria Line, but the system is quite old so I'd imagine their trains are quite short. What's the longest train you could have to run trains at that level?

>>1039325
I heard that Guangzhou metro line 3 were designed woth short train high frequency service in mind, initial it used 3 smaller cars per train which later extended to 6 per train, but the max amount of train per line there is still only about 30 trains/hours which is severely incapable of handling the passenger volume on the line thus they are now building another line that run parallel to it.

When the line was initially designed at about year 2002(?) they predicted the daily ridership of the line on 2017 would be about 30k/day with maximum up to 100k/day, howeber its daily ridership have already exceeded 2M/day by 2014.

Beijing metro line 4 also used 6 cars train but it can reach 35 trains per hours by making one of the terminal function as intermedoate stop, so that after trains unloaded passengers there they will directly run into depot and next train will come out of depot and thus there are no need to reverse the train there which made the frequency feasible.

The maximum frequency for metro and trains in Tokyo are also around 32/hours.

I think so far there are only few systems that can reach 40 trains/hours, like the Moscow one? but according to the report i am reading, the moscow system is benefited from their train only stopping for 30 seconds at each station which is made feasible by their grand platform that ease passenger movement, so I don't think that can be easily replicated?

>>1038362
This, but for airplanes. Enough with creeping the seat pitch down a quarter inch every year. And fuck safety as the flight is already safer than the taxi ride. You can pack me in like cordwood as long as I can lie down and stretch.
>tall in a world built by short people

File: 1ad1314348708.5601e1290a5ac.jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

You can apply the double decker design if you follow the Dutch NS trains, a split-style deck system where the doors are in the "middle" of the two floors.

Pros:
>More capacity (especially in high-density layout)
>No need for stupid double-floor doors

Cons:
>Potential wasted space near the door areas and stairs
>Longer times at station to accommodate for passengers needing to exit cars due to higher volume

Actually, a double-deck metro seems like a stupid idea.

>>1039374
If the height per layer is less than 80cm then it'll be more uncomfortable than nowadays economy seat and still carry fewer people than economy seat

File: 1478361226947.gif (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>1038362

File: 111_cars_Clarendon_17-11-96_1.jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

Maybe a 111 car train might work

>>1039389
If you're going that route, at least post an evolved design like the Sydney DD or MI 2N

>>1039271
Nobody's going to pay for the tunnels. And considering the Oedo line was one of the most expensive in the world, something wack like this would double down on existing scandals like the cut corners with the new fish market site

>>1039366
HK's heavy rail spec medium capacity rail is OP. Or rather a clever implementation of rural/intercity light trains and railcars in urban mass rapid transit.

>>1039271
This no. Everyone is missing the point. East Rail can't afford to support evacuate 12-car worth pax in cross-harbor service. There's a point why MOS Rail cross-harbor is heavily pitted up against East Rail cross-harbor and MOS-West Rail through service link.

>>1039271
>>1039857
Right and historic MLR trains have shit acceleration and top speed.

>>1039861
How old rolling stocks would perform is probably irrelevant as they are replacing the entire rolling stocks by the time SCL open anyway?

>>1039857
humm what is the limiting evacuation code?

>>1038362
If its small enough so fat people can't fit, I'll fund it

>>1039879
Guidelines on Formulation of Fire Safety Requirements for New Railway Infrastructures
http://www.hkfsd.gov.hk/eng/source/safety/Guidelines_for_New_Railway_092013.pdf

Unclear. MTR hasn't been transparent and informative. Ultimately it would be things like this that limit train length. I refuse to believe geography-constrained station length is the reason. Physically it's solvable (tunneling under Pacific Place in Admiralty is beyond my early imagination already). Evacuation isn't.

File: 34f.jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>1038362
That must become a /n/ meme, that must be preserved for future generations.

>>1038362
>I have a better idea.
Can I attach a blimp to it?

>>1039389

>2 sets of doors on passenger car

I swear these continental euros waste space on trains just for the sake of wasting space

>>1039252
This would be an excellent idea. Entry at the bottom, and exit at the top. The main problem would be disabled people unable to use stairs but who cares?

>>1040027
The idea was not separate entry/exit, insted it is like double floor elevator

>>1040027
>what is a ramp or an elevator

>>1042602
Inside a subway car?

>>1038362
Still better traveling than in London tube.

>>1038783
Fun fact, it also stands for Government of Ontario, who run it.

>>1037974

The Metra trains in Chicago do this. But Metra operates like a regional train system in contrast to heavy rail like the L or NYC subyway.

As others said, in some places I would assume it's impossible (low subway tunnels), or just not having proper infrastructure in place to accommodate it.

>>1043943

Ah, okay, I read your whole post. Yes, as others said, it's way easier to just put internal staircases in contrast to completely redesigning stations. Most people would just use downstairs entrances anyway.

>>1043944
Which mean the point have been missed by you....internal staircase would be too slow...

>>1037974
>Why don't overcrowded metro systems just use double deck trains?
The problem is the standard one: it's not a terrible idea, but you don't want to start from here and now. Retrofitting all the stations and expanding the tunnels is too expensive, especially as the line has to go out of service while the work is done.

>>1038717
lmao

File: SlaveShip.jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>1038362
>Everyone has to crawl in and lay flat on their stomachs

It's been done.

>>1037977
yeah but then in order to prevent adverse effects, you would have to design, and still the infrastructure to determine, and announce, that either deck was full or near capacity in order to efficiently direct commuters.

It's not a very good idea, logistically speaking.

And I don't know jack all about trains, but come on.

File: CVCjxqSUEAEe-2Q.jpg (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>1045692
Not too difficult to install some screens linked to occupancy
In the event of a deck being full, they simply wait for the next train

>>1045775
Can they be created to not have any way for people who don't want more people shoving in with them (or stupid teenagers and assholes) to mess with them? You can balance out the distribution of people at the station, but you don't know where the people getting off are coming from so that wouldn't help.

>>1045656
And that plane design which was basically that slaveship with wings...lmao.

>>1046879
>people who don't want more people shoving in with them
Don't ride the train in peak hour then. It will be crowded because it's Japan. But they will have the courtesy of letting you off if it is your station

>>1038717
TOP KEK
O
P

K
E
K

>>1043943
>heavy rail like the L or NYC subyway
Commuter, suburban, regional rail are most likely heavy rail, so is metro. It's capacity. You don't classify by frequency. Those are called rapid transit.

Could just add extra cars at the end and open the doors at different timings, after the first set of cars are loaded. Literally close to no modifications needed.

Or just reduce your population :^)

>>1043119
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvRy3bZSvMk&t=32s

>>1038155
Building tunnels is insanely expensive as is

>>1048022
That's a full passenger train, not even commuter rail, and about as far away from a subway as you can get while still being on rails.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zQ4ilcJOFfU further examination of the idea [Japanese audio]

>>1048333
This.

>>1039816
Looks like a prison train.

>>1038736
Those are Bombardier Bi-Levels, they're pretty common on US and Canadian commuter systems. The commuter lines in my state use them as well.

That would be horribly expensive. You might as well just spend a fraction of the cost on doubling the frequency of the service.

>>1050817
That would have already been done before radical ideas came to fruition. The lines are already at breaking point for service level
Otherwise, that is a suggestion of running 56, 68 and 72 trains per hour per direction on the likes of the Yamanote, Marunouchi and Victoria lines respectively as an example

>>1037974
The B line of the Parisian commuter light train system (RER) has tunnels that are too small for double deck trains.
On the other hand, the A line, which is the most used one, does have them, and still it gets overcrowded plenty of times.