https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hV FCmK6GgM >See vid re

>>74436731
>I read youTube comments
No way this faggot is older than 15, mods block him straight away

Postmodernists BTFO

>most of the criticisms are "it's boring"
YouTube comment sections, everyone

>>74436766
Butthurt Cage fan.

it's part of the general trend of the anti-intellectual reaction to all things postmodern

going to a postwar art vid with no knowledge of art history to spew ignorance is like going to a quantum mechanics vid with no knowledge in basic arithmetic, before any politicizing is even considered

nah john cage did quite a lot for music
he may have had some duds, like this piece, but overall he was very influential

>>74436731

i was just listening to Fremy's perf. of "sonatas & interludes"


it's okay if you can't understand it OP

it's okay if you feel good that yt comments validate your opinions

lol

>>74436731
>John Cage was a hack
This is an odd meme, especially considering Cage knew from day one that his musical skills (in the traditional sense) were very limited and focused mainly on philosophical explorations of music / experimentation with the ideas of "music". Hard to call someone a hack when they never claimed to be anything other than what they were in the first place.

>>74436887
The piece is very fun to listen to, at least for the first half. The title certainly fits. "Dud" would probably be too harsh of a description imo.

>>74436731
"hack"

was he a "shill" also?

>>74436731
>See vid related
>See
>Looks at comments
>Looking at youtube comments
>People are finally realizing John Cage was a hack
>Based off of youtube comments
You're pretty pathetic OP

>>74437231
What are you even talking about?

>>74436787
>>74436859
Cage wasn't even really postmodern

>>74436911
Cage did have formal training though. He just never seemed particularly interested in using it.

>>74437005
yes he was a shill and a cuck and a nu-male and all those other words that immediately scream "I'm a huge fucking retard" when you use them

>>74437005
what the fuck does that mean?

>>74437754
>Cage did have formal training though
Yes, but he lacked the ear / talent for straightforward composing. This became evident very early on.

>He just never seemed particularly interested in using it.
If you have formal training in playing piano, and you are not good at composing traditional pieces for piano, why would you continue attempting to do so when your skills are better suited for other things ?

>>74437955
The thing is, he was into hardcore avant garde stuff from the start. I'm saying he never had any ambition to be a conventional composer. It's not as though he tried and failed at it and decided instead to do something else.

>>74438101
I don't think we're actually disagreeing on anything. I'm assuming you don't think that formal training = compositional skill.

>>74438242
Formal training at least means competence and the ability to compose adequate sounding "normal" music you aim to do so.

>>74438352
That's not how it works.

>>74438372
How so? Anyone who can't manage to do that is pretty much hopeless and will either flunk out or exhaust the patience of any private teacher.

>>74438456
>>74438372
>>74438352
>>74438242
>>74438101
>>74437955
>>74437754
>>74436911

>>74436731
>>74436787
>>74436808
philistines

>>74438456
Intellectual understanding of mechanisms doesn't equate to creating something effectively synthesizing those mechanisms.

i.e. understanding descriptive laws of music don't impart prescriptive rules for making good music

extension of the "music theory doesn't help you make better music than you were already capable of making" argument

I've listened to / read everything from Cage I could get my hands on and it's really, really not hard to admit that he just is not good at composing traditionally

cannot fathom why this would ever be a controversial statement

>>74438548
>i.e. understanding descriptive laws of music don't impart prescriptive rules for making good music
It's not hard to apply theory in a straightforward way and make adequate but unexceptional music.

>I've listened to / read everything from Cage I could get my hands on and it's really, really not hard to admit that he just is not good at composing traditionally
I don't see how it makes sense to say he's not good at something he didn't attempt in the first place, as though you can confidently infer from his work that he was strictly bound to it and incapable of doing anything else.

>>74438689
>adequate but unexceptional music
this is the core of the disagreement and our definitions re: quality of a musical are (I suspect) so wildly different that it makes the disagreement semantic by nature

>I don't see how it makes sense to say he's not good at something he didn't attempt in the first place, as though you can confidently infer from his work that he was strictly bound to it and incapable of doing anything else.
He literally wrote about it in Silence: Lectures and Writings. Did you think I was just pulling that out of my ass ?