I've never seen a legitimate argument why jazz should be

>>74194391
"Western art music" is not a thing

>>74194391
It's western music that's art so it is "Western Art Music"

I've never seen a legitimate argument why jazz shouldn't be put on the same level as western art music.

Anyone?

>>74194391
I sound good

>>74194501
Western Art Music requires written notation whereas jazz is making it up as you go along.

B8

Its something I don't understand. Music snobs lump Jazz and Classical together as the "superior" music as opposed to Popular music. Classical I understand- it has lasted all these years for a reason. But Jazz, I don't get it. Jazz has a lot more in common with Popular music- it just sounds like a bunch of musicians got together and can't decide on which song to play. Also, little emotion in Jazz.

I have nothing against Jazz musicians- I do agree it takes skill and all of that. But why is it considered an "elevated" form of music? This is true in most colleges and universities even- they have a Jazz Department. They do not have a Country and Western department. Its complete opposite of Classical music to my ears. I don't hate Jazz, to me its nice for background music at a coffee shop or bookstore, but to sit down and listen to it , no thanks!

In Classical there is more emotion usually, although I don't understand I-talian Operas very well. But I see why people respect Classical music as a higher level of music- and I don't take offense at that. But why Jazz?

>>74194556

Isn't all art just
>making it up as you go along

>>74194556
if anything that's an argument for jazz

>>74194556
>i dont know what standards are

>>74194587
Not if you have to notate it first.

>>74194567
nice copypasta

>its nice for background music at a coffee shop or bookstore, but to sit down and listen to it , no thanks!

>>74194587
no, just my life

>>74194567

Stop with the copy pasta fag

>>74194615

What is mental notation for 500 please

>>74194637
>little emotion in jazz
ha it's a 3/10 post

>>74194611
>jazz comes from the heart and soul through improvisation at its core
>dude, let's just play another standard and shoot more heroin

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You can literally play random notes in jazz

There is no quality control,

>>74194391
because black people smell too bad for them to be on the same level

>>74194728
>You can literally play random notes in jazz
you actually can't though

>>74194812
Shut the fuck up bitch

>>74194812
There is no such thing as a wrong note.

>>74194837
But the pentatonic scale is full of wong notes

>>74194391
We are obviously basing this off the comparison of the best of the best, right? Because for example, the shitty classical is honestly even below popular music, and using shitty jazz as an example would also be equally unfair. The best of jazz shows a display of individual/group understanding of progression, performance, and emotive display in music that just doesn't show up in art/popular music. Art music almost feels more mood based in comparison.

>>74194876
Well hire someone to fix them then.

>>74194923
>individual/group understanding of progression, performance, and emotive display in music
You get that in almost all genres

>>74194567
please make it more obvious that you haven't listened to jazz

>>74194990
No you don't because those other genres are fully prepared compositions. And once you start hearing those prepared composition guys start doing improvisations eg. your jam bands, some prog rock live, krautrock, etc. you hear a very big lack of that level of improvisations and group interaction.

>>74194728
You don't know what you're talking about obviously.
He meant that you if play in certain logical ways, like different modes, different scales, different chords, you can actually fit those 12 notes in a key or song provided that you can modulate or understand music theory properly. It has a logic to it. And of course he meant that in a general way. If you play a C, C#, F#,G,G# chord with a B bass, i'm sorry it won't sound good and it will be considered as an error, even Art Tatum can't deny that.

Hey can everyone stop taking this piss poor bait? Thanks.

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>>74194728
you have nooooooooooo idea what you're talking about lmao

OP, you can get the answers that confirm your prejudices on your board

>>>/pol/

>emphasis on musicianship (as in, actually being good at your instrument, not just wanking with an electric guitar or rehearsing shitty poetry over three chords)
>importance of playing in lots of different-sized ensembles with much more varied instruments than popular music generally has (even full orchestras sometimes) and learning to extend your talent to playing with others instead of just being "the guy who does the drum part" or something
>many jazz albums feature compositions in the same way classical does, but the jazz artists often improvise around these compositions

it may sound pretentious but jazz has a real importance of artistry and talent to it, which is very different than (most) popular music like rock and electronic and stuff.

>>74194832
kek

They aren't very alike at all. One fetishizes the score, the other fetishes the player; one is largely notated, the other is largely improvised. It can result in very different ways to make music. But it's a matter of preference. One is not necessarily of greater value than another. Both can play with heavy intellectual devices. It's difficult for most jazz to reach the structural complexity of great classical; its difficult for most classical to approach the timbral boundary-breaking of great jazz. Just some thoughts.