Why is this album considered such a masterpiece? Almost all of

>album has been critically praised and popularly acclaimed for decades upon decades
>nu males meme
...

There have been a million threads just like this one; go read up in the archive. Also, there is no shortage of critical evaluations, writings, etc on the album. Go crack open a book or something.

sounds good to me bro

>>73105832
It's a masterpiece.

Fuck off.

Sounds like shit now but remember, it was praised 50 years ago and that's a different story back then.. no one has heard something like this before

>>73105968
Sounds great right now.

Fuck off.

>>73105944
how can you call ear-piercing violin playing adn shitty guitar playing, drumming , and singing good?

>>73105968
what about the generic 60's pop and blues that tons of bands had already done?

pssst... I don't get it wither, anon. But the hivemind is too strong on this one. Nothing to be done

Also i m o Nico is by far the worst part of it. I kind of like Lou's voice, actually.

>>73105832
find an album before TVU&N that sounds like it

it was far ahead of its time. of course nowadays you don't think it's a masterpiece because its sound has become ubiquitous in rock music, but there was nothing like it before 1967

>The values that made The Velvet Underground such pariahs in the ‘60s – the do-it-yourself, under-produced record-making; the utter disregard for fashion; the sceptical, sometimes cynical attitude – were right in line with ‘70s punk, ‘80s indie rock and ‘90s alternative music. “What makes a lot of ideas important is their context,” the Flaming Lips’ Wayne Coyne once told me. “The Velvets never sounded to me like a ‘60s band.”
>Name just about any left-of-centre band or artist since the ‘70s (the Sex Pistols, Joy Division, Sonic Youth, Galaxie 500, Spiritualized, Nick Cave, PJ Harvey) and a bunch that became mainstream giants (R.E.M., U2, Talking Heads) and they all acknowledge a deep debt to the Velvet Underground. Not bad for a band that was once dismissed and derided, as Reed acknowledged in the early ‘90s : “I just keeping thinking that when The Velvet Underground first came out with songs like ‘Heroin’, we were so savaged for it” he said. “Here it is a few decades later, and I have those lyrics published in a book, and I’m giving readings at art museums. We wanted to make records that would stick around like great novels or movies, and we believed in what we were doing, even if nobody else did.”

>>73106022
That's the thing, banana album is not generic back then.

>>73105832
muh noise

>>73106045
are you telling me that Sunday morning, Femme Fatal or I'll be your mirror was anything new in 1967

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Lou predicted this meme 50 years ago

>>73106092
>are you telling me that Sunday morning, Femme Fatal or I'll be your mirror was anything new in 1967
yes, that's why it's an important album

>>73105968
t. bleep

>>73106141
>implying generic 60's pop hadn't been done before vu&n

At the time, it was the only rock album that also had avant-garde qualities besides Freak Out, but people found drug use and literature to be more romantic and artful than Frank's weirdness. So you get these people who will suck off TVU&N because it has this paradoxical blend of debauchery and sophistication that still enthralls retards today (see: Game of Thrones).

This is despite that promoting heroin use isn't cool, Venus in Furs is an awful piece of literature, and the noise songs are there to see how susceptible you are to Emperor's-new-clothes stupidity. And the bottom line is that these songs all exist to undercut the pop songs like Sunday Morning, There She Goes Again, I'll Be Your Mirror, and the childishly (if slyly) misogynistic Femme Fatale, which was Lou Reed's real songwriting passion, not the experimental junk that people insist is influential but can never explain how.

>>73106092
Dope art isn't 'new'. Dope art is just the truth. The truth is eternal. And this record is the truth. That's why it's still being talked about 50 years later.

>>73106092
if you could show me a song that's similar in any way to sunday morning, that would be great. i'm waiting -- big fan of 60s pop/rock btw.

>>73106175
see you keep using the word generic (which is a relative term just to remind you) but you've yet to post anything better and especially older.

>>73106175
see
>>73106045

>>73106176
How is Femme Fatale misogynistic? It's about a specific girl who was notoriously cold.

>>73106228
the songs i mentioned are all very reminiscent of early beatles, beach boys, and countless other bands from the 60s

>>73106176
please stop comparing art it's very self-deceptive

"it's bad on purpose" or something

>>73106254
i'm waiting for you to post specific examples. i've heard a good chunk of the beatles' and the beach boys' discog and i can't think of anything similar to sunday morning, in songwriting, production and anything else.
>and countless othe--
cop-out

>>73106266
read a book

>>73105832
STUPID FAKE ARGUMENT DERAIL SHILL THREAD

>>73106254
still waiting. you struggling or something you pretentious schmuck?

how come idiots with zero foundation under their belt are always the ones trying (and hilariously failing) to talk down established classics? i don't get it.

>>73106288
sloop john b is one I can think of off the top of my head that is similar to sunday morning, and if you actually think that femme fatal, there she goes, or i'll be your mirror were unique for their time then you haven't listened to anything from before 1967. give pet sounds or the red album a listen. they even stole parts of there she goes from a 1962 song. also, just because something is "different" doesn't mean it's good

>>73106432
>pretentious
>coming from the person who enjoys this shit

you're so pathetic you couldn't even wait for my reply before making another post

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>>73106439
>comparing sloop john b to sunday morning
>two songs with completely different tones and paces
and i'm pretty much only concerned with your assessment on sunday morning.
>just because something is "different" doesn't mean it's good
did i assert this? how fucking stupid are you?
>then you haven't listened to anything from before 1967. give pet sounds or the red album a listen.
irony

>>73106478
"enjoys" directly contradicts the notion of pretense you *actual* pathetic cunt.

>>73105968
Except it was't. It was a commercial failure and its critical acclaim was pretty much entirely retroactive

>>73106539
>and i'm pretty much only concerned with your assessment on sunday morning.
so you're ignoring all my criticisms except for one song?

>did i assert this? how fucking stupid are you?
>no one has heard something like this before
even if you ignore half the album being simple blues and pop the few songs that were "different" doesn't make it a good album, then or now

>>73106288
>read a book
good point books are filled with imagination this album isn't

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covfefe

>>73106640
>he can assert that something is bad because it's been done before (your argument) but someone else can't assert it's good because it hasn't been done before (not my argument nor my point)

i'm challenging your supposed credibility and so far i can't say i trust you, especially if you're going to compare sloop john b to sunday morning.

i'm not arguing taste btw so throw that shit out of the window

>>73105832
>generic 60s pop.......

Really? Seriously? Is this bait or are you really that stupid and ignorant?

Songs about heroin and S&M were NOT lyrical standards in "60s Pop".

You know not which you speak.

>>73106241
It's an ironically cute song about a manipulative woman with a comically ridiculous number of sexual partners.

>>73106256
Not as self-deceptive as making a pithily arcane statement to dishonestly confuse an argument.

>>73106768
you gotta admit though, Heroin is kind of a mumbo jumbo of incoherent noise for the second half of the song. And before you say its bad on purpose or some bullshit like that, fuck off. thats a very week point to make.

>>73106745
I'm arguing that the album isn't as revolutionary as a lot of people claim it is, and I'm also saying that even if some of the songs are different (such as european son or black angel death song) doesn't mean the album is good.

>>73106768
>what are femme fatal, there she goes again, and i'll be your mirror
>implying different lyrics means the entire song is completely different

also what this anon said >>73106829

>>73106589
>"The first Velvet Underground album only sold 10,000 copies, but everyone who bought it formed a band." - Brian Eno
commercially yes it was not a success, but it inspired many artists to this day. David Bowie is the most notable that comes to mind right now.

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>>73106176
i'm not understanding your aversion to experimental music

>>73106829
>>73106856
it is not. it's exactly what happens in the life of a heroin addict. calming and meditative drones followed by absolute chaos, attitudes like "because when the smack begins to flow, i really don't care anymore," the various condemnations of higher-ups in the verses?

how lacking in perspective are you sheltered fucks?

>>73106176
lol
>i like pictures that represent things like dogs and trees

venus in furs wasnt so bad

>>73106945
it describing heroin well doesn't make it good music. mumbling over a barrage of noise isn't good music

>>73105832
It's the very first meme album. Just try to ignore it.

>>73107037
listen to more music then.

>>73106792
>It's an ironically cute song about a manipulative woman with a comically ridiculous number of sexual partners.
Okay? and how is that misogynistic?

>>73107079
what argument are you trying to make?

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>>73107037
so what then, do you just stay in the confines of top 40 pop and hip hop and don't care for other and more broader forms of artistic and human expression?

it's pretty good except the guitar solos

>>73107120
no, I just don't enjoy literal noise. do you honestly think that everything outside of top 40 music is high pitched shrieking with no melodic or rhythmic structure?

>>73106945
>i'm not understanding your aversion to experimental music

I'm not, unless the experimentation is about something as banal as the somatic aspect of sound itself or getting a kick out of alienating listeners.

>>73107101
It's tough to put into words. The effect is lost a bit because of Nico's blithe delivery but the tone of the song is basically disdainful. My opinion on this is also colored by stories I've read over the years on Lou Reed basically being a drug-fueled, abusive monster at times, with an unhealthy outlook on women.

>>73107163
>do you honestly think that everything outside of top 40 music is high pitched shrieking with no melodic or rhythmic structure?

no, i'm referring for your inability to at least appreciate (again, not arguing tastes) perfectly-illustrated expression, which is what tvu's heroin is.

>>73105832
jesus christ you have shit taste

>>73107208
>unless the experimentation is about something as banal as the somatic aspect of sound itself

why is this banal exactly
you must be a very stiff and rigid person

Holy shit these replies. At what point did /mu/ become this pleb? White Light/White Heat is better but TVU and Nico still is a classic for a reason.

John Cale helped fuse rock music with avant-garde musical styles. You can say that this sounds bad or wasn't a good thing, but you can't deny that it would foreshadow attempts to 'raise' rock music to the level of art music of the time. Cale was involved in the avant-garde composing scene and knew US composers like La Monte Young, and the influence is clear on the album's use of drones on a couple songs. Same with clear attempts to abandon standard musical structure, use of prepared piano, etc.

Lots of bands to come would try to raise rock music similarly, increasing the scope and ambition and complexity of the compositions, implementing further experiments with pure sound, further use of drones, strange instrumentation, free form structure, etc. Lou Reed similarly tried to raise rock music through the lyrics, which complimented Cale's attempts.

Whether or not it's amazing and well crafted is up in the air. What isn't, however, is that it anticipated future attempts to raise rock music to the level of contemporary 'proper' art when pretty much all other rock music was lyrically and musically tame and made for 'popular consumption'- or not intellectual. The air of experimentation and freshness is palpable on the album, and a lot of the pop songs hold up today.

This is not simply being pretentious- these are specific examples of ways that this rock album was one of the forerunners of 'art rock'. How important or good this trend is, that's up to you. But what you can't deny is that it basically predicted future attempts to elevate rock music to the level of other art that the band had experienced, be it Lou Reed's literary influences or Cale's musical influences. I personally enjoy the album as well, even if the free form/noisy sections can be tiring.

>>73107227
It matters, but not to the degree that it should be such a large focus of the work. It'd be equivalent to building a house and spending 50% of your total time on the installation of the mailbox.

rock sucks cock

>>73107210
being a "perfectly-illustrated expression" doesn't excuse it from being literally not music, rappers mumbling about the street might be realistic, but it doesn't make it good music. when did we get to the point were this drivel is praised as amazing music? i'm done with this shitty board, i'm going to sleep

I don't get why so many people here are complaining about these supposed noisy/more expiremental sections. It's such a small portion of the album. It's never even been something I had to overcome. This album's entry level as fuck. I've loved it since I was like 13. It's great, but to a modern listener it shouldn't really be challenging unless you're used to like really clean cut shit.

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>>73107355
>baby can't handle a bit of UnCozy dissonance in his rock music

>>73107373
man, I should write a thesis some day about the correlation between marking every post you make with a specific category of image and having an uncomfortable, defensive aloofness

>>73105832
muh heroin

whoever thinks sunday morning and sloop john b are stylistic/general equivalents. You're fucking stupid

>>73105832
>Why is this album considered such a masterpiece?
because it was edgy when it came out, because it talked about bdsm, heroin, violence.

Sunday morning laid the foundation for dream/chamber pop
Venus In Fars was proto noise rock (probably the closest thing before that was fire by Brian wilson but that was unreleased at the time obv)

>>73105893
>go read up in the archive
how the fuck does that work i thought threads were deleted or something like this isnt reddit

>>73105832
Its fine, the only parts I really dislike are Nico's songs. WL/WH is much better, it actually blew my mind that these guys could follow up with such a batshit insane album.

>>73107355
>when did we get to the point were this drivel is praised as amazing music?
And yet you consider Beatles and the Beach Boys worthy of classical music composers. Like clockwork.

>>73106176
If you think the song "Heroin" is promoting heroin use then you're retarded. One of the most powerful snti drug songs in existence if you care to actually listen to it

>>73107769
you think all 4chan is /b/ ?

i feel sorry for people who can't appreciate TVU

heroin is dope.

>>73107414
Seriously dude, not a fucking argument

>>73106829
The second half of Heroin is one of the best pieces of music I heard. It's so symbolic of taking heroin as a whole, the way the song starts to "bubble up" and then builds to this chaotic cacophony of pounding drums, screeching violas, and underneath it all is Lou sing-talking desperately, sounding like he's out of breath. It's so manic and hypnotic. There's no song out there that better represents a drug experience and that's what makes it such a genius song.

If he doesn't like this imagine if he listened to White Light/White Heat

>>73106539
calm down friend betraying mentally ill cat killer

>>73106023
>Not liking goddess mama Nico