When and why did punk stop being a vehicle for reactionary underclass

>>73038330
it always for pc children.

context behind image?

when americans got it

the 80s

>>73038330
When the movement was adopted by privelaged middle class moaners with victim complexes

>>73038330
shit that's not even a real armband

When the Jews subverted it.

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punk is dead and these people killed it just check it out

https://www.instagram.com/kevin__spaghetti/?hl=en

>>73038344
Iggy pop being iggy pop

punk was always primarily left wing

Thats what its always been though. You just grew up.

>>73038579
More like became a dumbass right winger.

Fuck the alt-right (though SJWs kinda suck too).

>>73038600
Dubs confirm. Fuck anyone who feels the need to be shitty to others to justify their beliefs

>>73038453
Punk was already declared dead on 1979 by crass

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>>73038345
Nah, a shitload of the pioneering American bands were actually quite right-wing.
The NYC and LA scenes of the late 70s/early 80s were particularly notorious for their "problematic" attitudes towards issues like race and homosexuality.

>>73038344
Ron Asheton dragging Iggy Pop offstage after a show, the crowd probably got a little heated

>>73038742
Do you really think they were doing it for any other reason besides just being edgy and offensive?

>>73038742
This Darby Crash was a fascist who was fond of Hitler saying he "fucked it up with the halocaust" and that everything else could've been accomplished

>>73038355
that's what happened, not when it happened

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>>73038668
finally someone with sense
fuck the alt-right
fuck SJWs who think it's below them to help educate people

vote Al Gore

kill Mickey mouse

listen to emo music alone while you draw furry porn

>>73038775
Yes.
Racism and homophobia weren't particularly edgy or offensive in the 70s and 80s, unless you took them to Skrewdriver levels.

>>73038503
Nope. Just because you want something to fit
your cuck worldview doesnt make it right. ^^

>>73038824
back to pol

>>73038824
Nope. Just because you want something to fit into your autistic worldview doesn't make it right :^)

>>73038503
punk was a cesspool for fuckers, just a club for middleclass white kids to complain and feel like they were cool, which included excluding everybody they didn't like (aka women, black guys, etc)

so tired of people who were born in the 90s trying to tell everyone else what punk was
if you like the music fine, if you don't fine, stop rewriting history to align with those opinions
like any genre of music punk was probably home to a million different political views so fuck off

>>73038824
>is alt right
>trying to appropriate punk as right wing because they once saw a picture of the ramones mocking communism
>says the left are trying to appropriate it
>reaponds using the word 'cuck' to show his obvious political bias

>>73038809
NIGGER NIGGER GET ON THAT BOAT NIGGER NIGGER ROW

>>73038899
> punk was probably home to a million different political views
Aye. It was a way to express anger, and that worked for both right and left wingers. Spitting bile isn't an exclusive thing.
Most "significant" punk bands are left-wing tho.

>>73038806
>Listening to emo while drawing furry porn
Now that is an afternoon well spent for me.

>>73038806
Mickey Mouse IS dead. Got kicked in the head.

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>>73038935
>thinks punk has any political affiliation
>implying punk isn't just about being free and deciding what you believe is right even if people disagree
not the same anon you're talking to if anything if punk were to be politically personified it'd be a manic centrist constantly hopping around the lower political compass constantly muttering to itself "fug the guberment :DDD" as it smears blood and shit all over itself

>>73038345
You do realize punk started in America, right? The brits stole it

>>73038680
Yea but Crass was wrong, punk got better in the 80's

>>73039031
I'm not saying that punk is left wing. I agree with you that punk is hard to define. To try to define punk itself is the very antithesis of punk, much like Dadaism

>>73038345
America started it dumb shitter A Band called Death and they were all black whitey stole the black mans music dumb cracker

I don't base my like/dislike of punk bands on whether they're right-wing or left-wing or apolitical or whatever desu. The tunes come first.
As far as the politics are concerned, I respect the courage that it takes to deliver a message as much as the message itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X5e9thfWJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOua84jdgZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYJ4hxCAfRc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d158f_jHxfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpz3D8TOTU

>>73039056
You do realise scenes exist a while before the first record of that genre comes out? Also American punk is shit

>>73039069
Nah punk is pretty easy to define live how you like and don't worry about the consequences

>>73038330
hasnt it always been like that in some way?

>>73039091
>American punk is shit
>Almost 80% of punk bands still recognized and highly acclaimed come from America
lol okay eurocuck

>>73039111
>Almost 80% of punk bands still recognized and highly acclaimed come from America
Source?

remember when punk changed the world?

>>73039091
>implying the punk scene existed before the Stooges or even the MC5

Fuck off, you clearly don't know shit about shit

All the first wave British punk bands came into being because of American punk.

>American punk is shit
Literally everyone who knows anything about punk would disagree with you.

>>73039141
>Cro-Mags,Bad Brains,7 Seconds,A Band Called Death, Nirvana, Slapshot, Angry Samoans, Dead Kennedy's, Misfits, The Jesus Lizard, Adolescents, The Dead Milkmen, and the list goes on and on and on

>>73038503
"Punk is right wing" -Johnny Ramone

>>73039141
Also
>FEAR
Literally one of the biggest names in the punk scene nobody can talk shit about their debut

>>73039192
Forgetting the Stooges, Black Flag, the Cramps, Minutemen, the Germs, Flipper, and even bands like Pixies or Sonic Youth

>>73039192
I don't know if i'd say some of those are recognized and highly acclaimed, but Nirvana? Are you taking the piss mate?

You also managed to miss Minor Threat somehow, which are probably one of the biggest names next to DK.

>>73038330
it never did you just became a reactionary fuck who idolizes the past

>>73039205
"punk is left wing"-Joey Ramone

>>73039232
>>73039231
I mentioned the list goes on and on for a reason also Nirvana is punk Bleach,Incesticide, and the Fecal Matter tape are all punk m8

>>73039091
Clash was a british punk rock band.

That alone makes british punk worse than american punk

>>73039141
punk was pretty much dead in the uk by the late 70s though
some of the early bands broke up, a lot of them started sucking, a lot of them transitioned to playing post-punk(the banshees, the stranglers, the damned, the pistols turned into pil, the buzzcocks turned into magazine etc.)
some of the younger bands that came into their own later(discharge, amebix etc.) were still fantastic, but shit like anarchopunk and RAC and whatever was more interesting for its politics than for the actual music
not even gonna get into dumb shit like the exploited or GBH here

at the same time the american scenes in new york and washington and la and the midwest were starting to flourish

>>73038355
>When the movement was adopted by privelaged middle class moaners with victim complexes
Most crusties are basically this, kids with rich parents playing homeless that can go home any time they want.

>>73039026
cause people got too serious.

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>/mu/ has never been to a punk show
>/mu/ doesn't listen to punk outside of the same few generic RYM-core albums
>/mu/ somehow thinks they have any authority to comment on punk music

>>73039503
I can't think of a bigger waste of time than listening to a modern punk album in 2017 desu.
Punk is just a subcultural dead end at this point.

>>73039503
I've been to a powerviolence show and saw Cro-Mags live

>>73039539
It's not though you just don't branch out of your safe space

>>73039539
Do you know this based on experience and facts? Or based on what 4chan told you?

>>73039074
Death didn't invent punk you dumb berry, they were just a part of the scene that ended up forgotten due to label issues. The Stooges came out before them, and so did the MC5

>>73039613
Stooges still American

>>73039630
I know, but Death didn't start it

>>73039639
yeah but you forgot USA USA USA America a best at music all other countries eat our very talented shit

>>73039031
Punk is subversive

Leftism is subversive

This is why a lot of leftists like punk

This doesn't mean there aren't right wing people who are subversive (Frank Zappa) but the ideology as a whole is based in traditionalism

(Liberals aren't leftists)

>>73039734
>leftism is subversive
lol does that mean le alt right is subversive at the moment too?

>>73039734
>Leftism is subversive

leftism has been a capitalist tool for gaslighting and misdirection for fucking ages, dude
the CIA funded socialist organisations and publications as far back as the 60s

When the famous punk icons grew up into cucks.

Remember when punk rock wasn't leftist?

> The Clash
> Crass
> The Dils
> Dead Kennedys
> MDC
> The Dicks
> Fugazi
> Napalm Death
> NOFX
> Propagandhi
> Atari Teenage Riot
> Refused

Yeah, me neither.

>>73039878
Johnny Ramone is hardly a cuck

>>73040153
Hahahaha you dumb cuck those don't count because of a few obscure Nazi punk bands I've never listened to

>>73038330
It's never been for either faggot. Dead Kennedy's always made fun of skin head faggots with 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off' and PC Children always hated punk because it went against the status quo at the time. Underage fuck off.

when the internet came out of the closet www. style

>>73039802
No because it's reactionary to liberal ideology becoming public opinion

>>73038345
>>73039091
It's a fact that punk came from America.
>The Velvet Underground
>The Stooges
>New York Dolls
>Ramones
Those four AMERICAN bands created punk.

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>4chan users who have never been to a punk show, never been part of a punk scene, have never seen a contemporary punk band not featured on Pitchfork and have no knowledge of punk outside of the internet complaining about how what punk means has changed

>>73038330
I'm a part of what some people call the "alt-right" and it feels punk as fuck. It feels like an actual counter culture, or rebellion against the PC culture that dominates American colleges.

>>73039503
>>73039593
>>73039565
>>73041311
Punk hasn't been fresh or rebellious in over twenty years. Show me three modern punk bands who are pushing boundaries. Spamming "LOL YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW PUNK" isn't an argument.

>>73041331

But this thread is triggered alt-right snowflakes whining about the values of punk

>>73041331
>Spamming "LOL YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW PUNK" isn't an argument
If you call yourself a food critic but you only eat at McDonald's and get all your opinions from /ck/ then you don't really know anything about food and your opinions don't matter

>>73041331
The Coltranes and NAILS can't think of another band really pushing boundaries like them at the moment but I'm sure they're there if I had to pick another probably OFF!

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>>73041383
>still hasn't posted a modern punk band who is pushing boundaries

>>73041415
Name one guitar-based band pushing boundaries in any genre

>>73041331
> Spamming "LOL YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW PUNK" isn't an argument.
theyre right though you idiot. all you need to do to find boundary pushing punk music is go to a shitty basement venue or house show...and definitely not by looking to the "big" names. your post is really proving their points... :\

>>73041426
How does that refute my point that punk has become tiresome and cliche? Modern punk being a pathetic joke is okay because all rock has hit a brick wall?

>>73041478
No, he's right, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you just make that more obvious as you keep babbling on.

It seems like the major bands going are crust (Tragedy, Sarabante, Jungbluth, From Ashes Rise, Martyrdöd), folk punk (Days N Daze, Rail Yard Ghosts, Ramshackle Glory, Worldly Savages), and a bunch of random sludge bands that seem to be following Planes Mistaken for Stars' lead. The deathrock revival is doing pretty well, with bands like Anasazi.

>>73039503
>*strums power chord*

>>73038781
interesting considering how gay he was

>>73038781

Darby Crash was a fucking dope addict that didn't believe anything other than pissing people off and probably couldn't spell the word fascist let alone define what it means.

>>73041583
>crust
>folk punk
>sludge
>deathrock
None of this is fucking new. Thanks for proving my point that modern punk is just endlessly rehashing the past.

>>73041894
he didn't start doing dope until like the last year of his life, and mein kompf was one of his favorite books. he was actually really smart in some ways
>t. someone who read lexicon devil

The best punk bands were left-wing (The Dicks, Fugazi, CCCP, Gang of Four) but now that the left is full of anti-Marxist postmdoernist faggots it's all "woke" shit like Against Me. There are no good far-right bands that are seriously political. You might as well say Death in June/Bowie are far-right when at their most explicit it's all imagery. Actual Nazi punks are bad musicians, it's all message.

>>73041903
None of these genres sound anything like they did in the past. Crust is soaking up influences from black metal, death metal, and screamo. Those folk bands have elements of everything from crust to Slavic folk. Those sludge bands have elements of post-hardcore. All these genres are evolving, and many of the newer bands have very original sounds. You clearly don't know anything about punk music, you're just some complacent dweeb. Either lose the baseless sense of superiority or kill yourself.

>>73041964
>Against Me
Are you seriously using Against Me to represent the entirety of punk? You might as well have picked Green Day
Also Gang of Four are sellouts

>>73041964
Death In June is very much a right-wing band and Douglas Pearce has never been shy about making that clear either.
It's baffling to me that people are still falling back on that old "i-it's all just fetishism! he's just being subversive! he's actually a leftist!" bit when the guy has been very open about his distaste for multiculturalism and modern liberalism and his appreciation for European tradition and heritage for ages.

>>73038330
Time and time again, counterculture becomes "cool" and subsumed by the culture. It's just sort of how a consumerist society works.

Can we agree that politicizing music only brings the detriment of other parties and artists, instead of influencing it to become better?

>>73042108

9 out of 10 times you're right

>>73042115

Are there any artists that have had positive results by taking a political stance and virtue signalling to their audience?

>>73042185
Radiohead's politics are pretty stupid but I also don't think they would be the same without them

>>73038345
>oi oi was a good thing that happened to punk

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>>73042185
>by taking a political stance and virtue signalling to their audience

If you want a real answer then don't ask such a blatantly manipulative and leading question.

>>73038742
It sounds too broad to be true but they were just being edgy. The New York scene was a reaction to flower power, the L.A. scene to the apocalyptic superficiality of that city and the '70s in general.

In 'The Decline of Western Civilization' Fear and Circle Jerks make really tasteless jokes about women but there are ladies right there in the middle of the mosh pit -plus, L.A. had the latinx influence in the mix. NYC was always fine with homosexuality, though you could argue that that scene was much more homogeneous racially.

When people started believing in Donald Trump for president.

>>73038387
Yes it is. Ron Asheton were pretty serious about his nazi stuff.

>>73042086
>muh buzzwords

>>73038330
When did Crass form?

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>>73042727
>Crass
>hyper-sensitive and sheltered

punk is right-wing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb7jYZSpkxw

>>73042727
crass were pretty sensible as far as leftists go IIRC
they just did their thing without trying to impose it on anyone else
and from what i understand they actually practiced what they preached, communal living, strict DIY policies and all that shit
not like gang of four and a lot of the other "leftist" bands who'd preach about socialism in their lyrics while signing contracts with major labels and watering down their sound in hopes of scoring a new-wave crossover hit

>>73042644
he's not wrong.

>>73038330
Do alt-right kiddies know nothing about punk music or do they just like to pretend that punk music has never had roots in leftist politics and anarchism?

>>73044011

Both. They know nothing about punk are also vaguely aware that a Ramone wore a swastika necklace once and they just make up the rest

>>73038579
>4chan

>>73038345
But punk has always been an american thing. A lot of early bands were very alt right also.

>>73038899
Checked

>>73039031
>deciding what you believe is right
this is why i can't into punk maybe
self doubt and flexibility are kinda the keystones of my belief system

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>>73044240
>A lot of early bands were very alt right

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>>73044491
>he doesn't remember when punk bands used to sing about cultural marxists and cucks

Why are there so many alt-right retards on this board?

>>73044617
the fourteen year old kids on /pol/ get bored

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>>73044617
>>73044648

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>>73044617
>board

It's the site and it's because the mods have a direct financial incentive in allowing alt-right shitwits to flood the boars.

"Punk's right-wing"
Explain this sweetie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psB0cidB5bg

>>73044648
>>73044741
I'm aware of much more than this sort of stuff desu.

>>73044707
>le nu male meme

You're assuming I'm left-leaning. Not all conservatives fell for the alt-right meme.

>>73044617
Because punk is for children and Generation Z is turning out to be quite right-wing and reactionary. They're good kids desu.

>>73044785
>and Generation Z is turning out to be quite right-wing and reactionary
They think they are. They think that they are being rebellious.

>>73044741
t. antifa PC shill

>>73038993
he told you to fuck off you freshman twat

>>73041406
Coltranes are fantastic

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>>73044741
why did you redact it?

>>73044707
>he think's i'm a retarded 14 year old?
>better post a shitty, artifact ridden jpg insulting his masculinity, that'll show him!

>>73045030
>being this upset

>>73044991

Because I've had 2 separate week long bans for posting the version you just did.

>>73044491
Except they were you can't argue it especially in the 70's. It's still true to this day. A lot of punk venues here have had a lot of problems with right wing bands, and visitors starting shit with minorities and gays.

>>73039084
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X5e9thfWJ0

BACK WITH A BANG NOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Skrewdriver rules to be perfectly honest with you lads.

>>73045324

Lol ok

>>73038344
Iggy was doing a show where he was basically just cutting himself, throwing up and ultimately fucking a virgin on stage or something like that. I read that in his biography but i might be misremembering. This was like his lowest point in 1974 when the stooges were broken up and he was reduced to literally being a heroin lapdog who'd jump from house to house until he went to rehab

The last big movement for punk was pop punk, but pop punk was the opposite of what punk was, punk rejected consumerism and was critical of capitalism.
Pop punk embraced those things.

>>73045694

You're a fucking idiot. Leave this thread.

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Why does punk have to be right or left? It's fucking music, if the singer wants to put some political message out there then that's his business, who fucking cares. I hate commies and yet i listen to the clash, i have no idea why people would stop listening to good music just because they don't agree with the fucking singer. DK did it the best, they criticized everything from right wing religious conservative hicks to dumb starbucks marxists. The real fucking idiots are the ones who subscribe to one ideology and base their entire life around it.

>>73038330
Punk was never not leftist besides that talentless faggot johnny ramone

>>73039861
jesus fuck, there are people on this earth who are actually this stupid....

try to open an history book once? and read it?

>>73041252
You forgot Alice Cooper.

>>73046395

You're talking to a wall. Nothing will that anon but growing up and getting off the itnernet.

>>73039861
Lol

>>73042007
Gothfag here, Deathrock is rehashing shit.

>>73039503
>>73041311
>>73044011

Every time /mu/ talks about punk its cringe inducing.

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>>73038330
>sucking off a 70 year old manchild who had everything handed to him by his daddy and the Russians is somehow punk
>making the same thread every day

>>73046683
So much this. Don't pretend that you know shit about punk after listening to a couple of babby's first punk albums. Fascism isn't punk, nor will it ever be.

>>73046683
this, the politics shit has fucked up everything about punk there can't even be a post about it that le pung is peft wing Xdddd alt right niggers appear

When terrible pop punk bands like blink 182 came along

>>73046956
le born in the wrong generation

>>73046956
You don't listen to much music do you?

>>73038330

1 Punk has always been an artistic outlet for marginalized working class kids.

2 The overwhelming number of them having left leaning politics.

3 After all the shit I've seen happen at shows, or have seen punk kids go through, never in a million years would I call the kids that take part in the underground punk scene sheltered PC children.

4 Even tough it started in earnest in the USA in 1975, by 1977 punk had flourished in most mayor cities in the world, not just NYC and London.

Pekinska Patka came up in 77 in fucking Yugoslavia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FcTWksQqdg

Ai-5 in Brasil in 78 as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdnoSKl-iXA

/mu/ only knows the Clash, the Ramones, Black Flag, the Cirkle Jerks and the Pistols because they have never experienced the scene first hand, they just read up on it on wikipedia or billboard and have seen that picture of Sid Vicious wearing a swastika shirt.

So if you wanna talk about sheltered...

>>73038809
Hell, even Anal Cunt/Meat Shits tier homophobia and sexism, while extreme, was still done in very darkly comical jest, albeit pitch black funny.

>>73039734
Zappa would fuckin' hate Trump and the alt-right though.

He was center right/centrist to be honest as he made fun of both lefties and conservatives equally.

>>73039503
>>73041311
>>73044011
>>73046683

/thread

>>73046747
I fuckin' love that shirt.

>>73047064
So he was a liberal?

>>73047064
>Zappa would

Please stop yourself any time you find yourself starting a sentence this way

Who here just don't care and listens to the Oblivians?

>>73042521
>latinx
fuck you

Recommend me tumblr blogs.
Being center right isn't fun, it sucks.

>>73042521
>latinx
literally kill yourself

>>73047658
Great band the oblivians!!!!!!!!

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>>73042521
>latinx
Leave

>>73047685
>>73047944
>>73047981
>reactionaries get triggered by a word just because they saw it used by someone they didn't like in a /pol/ propaganda video
every time lol

>>73047974
Do you really like them? I just can't tell who's being serious anymore

>>73048079
It's not a word, don't try to make it be one. You can't add fucking Xs to the end of romance languages and make it fit.

It also doesn't make sense not to use Latino in this context, because no one will think you're excluding latin music made by women.

And if you say "hurr, you don't even have to pronounce it online," then why not have Latin* or Latin_ be the alternative? You know, accepted place-filler symbols that aren't fucking letters

>>73048232
I unironically like them, a guy recommended me them because I liked the stooges

>>73048238
i'm not crusading in defense of the word, just think it's hilarious that /pol/kids freak out when they see it. latin@, latin* and latin_ serve exactly the same purpose and i have no problem with them.

people can add an x if they damn well please. people make up bullshit words all the time, that's how language works. i'll bet you use "google" as a verb.

>>73048262
Awesome! What's your favorite of theirs? You like any of the bands they were in after the Oblivians split up?

>>73048363
Right, but if the idea is to be respectful to hispanics or latin culture, I don't think a bunch of white elites deciding what's a neutral term for a gendered language is a good idea.

>>73048483
Honestly I've only listened multiple times to the album with the girl with the tits hanging out

>>73038330
Since the 90s.

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When Epitaph/Fat Wreck Chords punk got big, so the 90s

>>73048547
epitaph and fat wreck dindu nuffin

>>73038503
>>73042777
This argument about whether punk is left or right is ridiculous. It's more appropriate to generalise punk as a nihilistic anti-authoritarian movement (even then, that doesn't cover all people who consider themselves punk).

>>73040631
This guy gets the idea.

>>73048526
Check out their record Soul Food. Got a lot of their best stuff on it! Here's some bands they were in after the oblivians

Reigning Sound - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhnd5drzTi8

Legs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbnZhyAie6c

True Sons of Thunder - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tluchj-4A2c

>>73048640
good stuff thanks

>>73048683
No problem. Do you like the Reatards?

>>73048692
I've listened to some jay retard stuff it's very good

>>73048733
Here's him at his peak in my opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmW8i7vRX_Y

>>73038806
i agree with the furry porn but listening to emo is reprehensible

>>73038330
the majority of what people call "punk" today is literally just garage rock

>>73047000
>Punk has always been an artistic outlet for marginalized working class kids.

except it's fucking not and hasn't been since the fucking 80s

>>73048493
evidence for white elites coining "latinx"?

>>73042036
Pierce literally believes he was posessed by demons the guy's a crackpot or a memer

>>73042644

didn't know /mu/ was this retarded

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>>73038742
>thumbs down at communism means "quite right wing"
Is this really where we're at these days? Fuck.
And back in the day, free speech was big with liberals. The right wing had prominent elements much closer to the SJW moralfags of today. We're dealing with something much different when we're talking about that era.

>>73048079

Im Latino, latinx is not a word fuck off. It's an attempt to nullify the gender form of romance languages.

It's another example of the anglo-centric mentality of the American left. They have to nullify cultural differences that make the uncomfortable.

>>73045030
how is calling someone a retarded 14 year old any better than posting a meme?

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.>>73039141
Fucking Stooges.

>>73039734
>leftism is subversive
Stop reading right there

>>73042570
In Gimmie Danger Asheton says why he used to wear that nazi crap. It was only aesthetic

>plp wu never haz bin in muh tru punk gig.. urr durr
Ad hominem

>>73038330
Meanwhile mainstream exist, it'll be Punk. I mean, now they are playing their music in shit holes, uploading it in internet with a lot of competition, with Sum 41, Green Day and a lot of pop punk demogagy bullshit. Besides, Black Flag was not the most famous band in their time, or Meat Puppets, Gun Club? You know why we doesn't see bands like them? Because they pass the test of the time, entire decades. The only thing we can do is search for good punk bands, support them and go to their shows if we can.

>plp wu never haz bin in muh tru punk gig.. urr durr
Ad hominem

>Punk's left/right wing

I think there's a confusion with the "conservatism is the new punk rock". It's impossible to say that Punk was always Right. The reason is simple, Right was the mainstream ideology in that time. Nazi punk wasn't right because Nazis never were right. This doesn't mean that Punk is inherently left wing. Now, the mainstream culture (music, media and politics) are left. We were surprised when Trump won the election, don't we? Punk is now able to be right wing without problem, because it will fight the giant boss with the power and money.
For me, the most important thing in Punk is being raw, dirty, simple, at the same time intelligent, economic and expresive. Like a haiku, apparently short, but complex inside. However, when ideology comes, it's a "David vs Goliath" thing. Hit to the biggest guy in the bar, whoever it is. Even if it is a punk.
Example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9wo5uqHAHc

"Conservatism is the new punk rock" then? Hell no. Punk is what has always been, Counterculture.
Been counterculture makes a Punk song good? No, composition and live performance do it.

Great thread btw.

>>73038330
When the Clash got more popular than Crass.

>>73050048
Apples and oranges, really. Why would you ever expect Crass to be popular anyway? Isn't that irrelevant to what they did? And why does the Clash getting big take anything away from them?

Refused made the best punk album ever and those guys are fucking socialists

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>>73044785
>falling for /pol/ memes

>>73050134
>>73050134
>Apples and oranges, really.
You're right.

>Why would you ever expect Crass to be popular anyway?
I wouldn't

> Isn't that irrelevant to what they did?
Yes.

>And why does the Clash getting big take anything away from them?
It doesn't.

The question was when punk as a movement moved from being about "reactioanry underclass nihilism" and into a "shelter for ... pc children."

By that criteria when punk hits the mainstream ie: the Clash, is when it happens, I would argue.

>>73038330
Somewhere around 1989.

>>73049121
>began to emerge within queer communities on the internet in 2004
>Latinx became a widely-used identifier both on social media platforms like Tumblr and in scholarly work
Pretty fucking white stuff

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-people-are-using-the-term-latinx_us_57753328e4b0cc0fa136a159

>>73038330
someone doesn't know what reactionary means

Not to take anything away from the Stooges, but the Sonics were playing punk in Washington state in the early sixties. Also Little Richard was pretty much punk in the fifties.

>>73050857
Garage rock=/=punk

closely related but Sonics were doing garage rock with a bit of yelling, Stooges were a whole other ball park.

Love the Sonics but they really weren't punk, beyond their attitudes and the screaming.

>>73038748
Ron Asheton sure loves his Nazi imagery

>>73050034
I know that but he was also a serious collector of it.

>>73041252
You forgot MC5

>>73038680
>crass
they are the most hypocritical band in punk history

>>73039205
"I like that Maggie Thatcher woman, I hope she does a bang on job at running the UK"

>>73039287
I like american punk, but don't shit on the Clash just because they were only punk band in the 70s to actually have talent

>>73045846
This

>>73038345
*when brits got it

>>73038344
Iggy not long after the Stooges broke up. He was working with Ray from the Doors and had an idea for some sort of musical play. He booked a venue and it basically turned into him cutting himself and having Ron Asheton (in the nazi uniform) hit him with stuff. It was basically a huge embarrassment and a real low point for him. Not long afterwards he met Bowie again and went to Germany

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>Left Punk
Green Day
Blink 182
The Homosexuals

>Right Wing
The Clash
Black Fag
The Ramemes
Dead Kennedys
SEx Pistols

just choose you are site and shut up -_-

>>73052991
There have been battalions of fucktards trawling the internet for at least 18 months now, trying to politicize absolutey everything as either left or right. I just ignore 'em now.

>>73053234
For more than 18 months now m9, its just gotten more shitfest-y now because of current election

>>73038899
SHUT THE FUCK UP