>he thinks that classical music listeners are pretentious

The stuff on Loony Toons is pretty okay.

#AllMusicMatters

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>thinking your nonimprovisitory is meaningful

A autistic freestyling rapper is more creative

>he thinks that all music is equal
Nobody thinks that
>because you can't prove objectively its value
This part is true

classical wasnt good until it went modern

>>he thinks classical music fans do not have a right to being smug

they have, unless they are vivaldi fans

>>73015978
>"he thinks that classical music listeners are pretentious"
>"Your music is garbage"

not pretentious at all

Classical music is art, I'm sorry but vaporwave or whatever rock crap you listen to can't never be that.
At most is can be artsy - the difference is like the difference between genre fiction and actual literature, photoshop drawings and an oil painting. Even contemporary classical music is still art up to the postmodern standards of other art forms.
Now, if you like popular music you probably will completely disregard this post, or leave a hostile response. That is perfectly understandable, you might think that I'm calling all that you felt while listening to popular music a lie. But that's not true, in the same way people can find merit in genre fiction or w/e they can find it in popular music. The only difference is it's not high art.

>>73017244
OP is clearly incapable of being self aware

arvo part's te deum is beautiful but it's a bit pointlessly baggy in places.

never compromise your own aesthetic judgement that god has blessed you with.

>>73017312
>Classical music is art, I'm sorry but vaporwave or whatever rock crap you listen to can't never be that.
>can't never be

So it can sometimes be? Got it. Thanks bud.

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>>73017424

How are you people falling for this?

>>73017440
lots of teenagers are emotionally invested in the music they listen to

>>73017438
Is it a typo? Pretty sure he's just a rational human being that wouldn't make the classification of art or notions of quality, both of which are obviously by definition subjective concepts, seem as if they were objective? That would be stupid. He clearly in plain English says that popular music can [in his opinion] sometimes be art. There's no stupid pigeonholing or complete lack of rational thought. Everyone can go about their day as normal.

>>73017491
If you abandon all definitions in your "rational" postmodern manner, yeah sure what you made makes sense. Eat up your deskilled garbage. However, 99.9% of popular music isn't art, where as most of classical music is art and even some of it is great art. That's like arguing if fan fiction can be art. Yes, there is nothing preventing it from being art but a person who reads nothing but fanfiction obviously isn't reading art most of the time. Fanfiction just like popular music is garbage and you are too uneducated to see it.

>by definition subjective concepts
And arguing that music should be classified by "objective concepts" (whatever that may be) isn't itself subjective? You seem to mistake rational thought for common sense. Notice how the 2nd one doesn't even involve the word "thought" in it's name.

>>73017591
there has been plenty of really bad classical music as well. I've read sonic fanfiction better than debussy

>>73017653
You should have said that you are an uneducated dilettante with no interest in the arts sooner, so I wouldn't have wasted my time

>>73017456
Being emotionally invested in music isn't a bad thing, but being emotionally invested in 4chan bait threads is.

>>73017683
But you love wasting your time on shit like this. Complaining about the evils of postmodernism amongst the uneducated schleps of 4chan is just such a delightfully postmodern thing to do.

>>73017683
>debussy fans pretending they have taste

nothing tickles me more.

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All the "music fans" triggered in this thread, defending their shitty rock trite.

Its genuinely funny how mad these pseudo-musical and woefully immature fanboys get. Literally on the same level as Fantano.

>>73017746
You've really misunderstood this thread haven't you? Well at least you got to use your reaction image.

>>73017722
I like Ravel more

>talking about classical outside of /classical/

>>73017103
>there's no improvisation in classical music

>>73017760
>Your music is garbage, and the sad part is that you guys are too uneducated to see it.

>>73017776
now I'm actually physically laughing

french composers... ahahahaha

>>73017187
Classical was always modern

Folk and jazz > classical

>>73017778
I have one better:
>Talking about classical music on /mu/ at all

What's the point? This is one of those things that only works if you talk about it in person with somebody who knows what they are talking about. You amateur.

>>73017811
Seems like you're forgetting Chopin.

>>73017837
people who are really into classical are usually pederasts

>>73017851
Buddy delete this
>>73017837
Sure but better /classical/ than anywhere else on /mu/. It's embarrassing seeing the difference

>>73017857
And you're a little boy I take it? underage b&

>>73017851
...one exception. one.

>>73017891
Berlioz, Satie, Saint-Saens, Messiaen, Xenakis...

>>73017917
as I said, one.

>>73017440
OP here
I'm completely serious, I do honestly believe in a hierarchical aesthetic order in which classical music is at the top.

>>73017942
You don't even know who these people are just as you don't even know who Chopin is, retard

>>73017828
Lol no

>>73017823
modern is a later 1800s to mid 1900s you dip
>>73017778
improvisation is largely outside the idiom of like 90+% of western classical

>>73017962
ahahahahaha, sometimes I forget this site is mostly populated by teenagers

those obscure composers, chopin, xenakis and berlioz
ahahahahahahaha

>>73017988
If you knew who Chopin was then you would know he was Polish
I don't think you can ever recover from being this ignorant, kid

>>73017988
And yet you discount Xenakis?
Hmmmmm

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I want to get into classical more but the problem is that you basically have to be hyperautistically devoted to it to be able to keep up with all the different composers, soloists, recordings and stuff.

You also basically have to sit in a dimly lit room with the music playing and focus on that and only that to be able to grasp the full breadth and emotion of it and pick it apart and analyze it to figure out what the composer and performers wanted to say with the piece. It's not really something you can just put on in the background while you're doing something else, unless it's made for that purpose, like Satie, because then all the nuance and stuff gets lost.

Maybe I'm just a brainlet and am missing out on something, but I prefer folk and jazz because it's usually more straightforward and doesn't have as much stuff you need to pick apart and analyze to fully appreciate it on more than a shallow level

>>73017986
>improvisation is largely outside the idiom of like 90+% of western classical

All the great composes in our canon who were also virtuosos used to improvise extensively, the loss of this figure is very recent, and is due to the segregation between composers and virtuosos (who now have to dedicate their entire life to the instrument alone, since the bar has been raised so high after Liszt).

We know for a fact that Bach could improvise 6 voice fugues (he did so with a simplified version of the theme of Ricercar a 6), Mozart could improvise on the spot almost anything by the time he was 7, Beethoven used to make people cry with his improvisations, Schubert would read random poems and improvise lieders over it, Schumann would compose so fast that most of his compositions are basically improvisations on paper (he was the fastest great composer in history), Liszt... well, i don't need to continue.

tl;dr: study your music history right, you pleb

>>73018010
Either he did not know who Chopin, Berliox, Xenakis etc. were, or he is the anon with the worst taste in this board. Can you imagine liking Chopin more than ANY french composer in history? It is excusable only if you're a teenage girl or a middle-aged housewife.

>>73018010
he spent a lot of time in and around paris, as you know you cheeky git

>>73018021
yeah he's shite

>>73017591
What about Postmodern classical music?
>>73018034
You don't have to do that with classical music but it certainly enhances it. To be honest you could do that with Jazz too.

Don't listen to OP, he's a newfag who's sexually frustrated.

>>73018063
>he spent a lot of time in and around paris
topkek, you have no idea what you are talking about
I don't think you ever listened to classical music extensively - shut up and stop embarrassing yourself

trolling is one thing, and being so uneducated is another

>>73018034
Probably you've never understood ANY classical piece you've listened to, otherwise you could not stop listening to it every time you're by yourself. Although it requires some concentration, to the true afficionado is a natural, effortless experience: I don't have to psyche myself up to listen to something as accessible as Beethoven (but I may have to do so when it comes to contemporary music).

Here's my tip: take drugs and listen to classical music. You may also wait for an epiphany, but that may take forever, since it's such a personal experience. Being stoned will immediatly put you in that mood that is required for the appreciation of any art. After that first experience, drop the dychotomy drug-art, since it will only dull you in the long run.

>>73015978
Fucking hell. Do people actually listen to Beethoven? They actually listen to that trash?

Let me enlighten you,

Beethoven has no understanding of artistic expression just as the people who make classical recordings make the covers pictures of pretty nature and themselves sitting in chairs. These people don't have the slightest clue what meaningful art is. It doesn't matter if Bach, Mozart, or Beethoven understood the dynamics of music better than anyone, because thy had no idea what to do with it. You've essentially been tricked into listening to the musical equivalent a rococo painting.

Only later when Debussy, Ravel, and Wagner came in did we start to see a more fitting music to be considered ar (note that many of these guys were controversial for the pretentious no taste elites of their time). But those are far and few in between. Most composers were, and still are, artistically bankrupt.

Most of contemporary genres are the same no doubt, but certain musicians and groups have the prowess and understanding to release incredible works. You think classical is better purely on aesthetic terms, and the fact that you have to bring up how much more intelligent you are for listening proves it. In that case, classical isn't art at all, it's the bourgeois antichrist of it.

>>73018054
I'm absolutely convinced that the french are inherently tone-deaf. Chopin fortunately was actually deaf so it counter-balanced this sad genetic disorder and made his music great.

>>73018054
>The Liszt could go on
Just kidding. Good post

>>73018034
If you can follow sheet music at all I recommend doing so while listening to some piano sonatas, string quartets, etc. Might be helpful. Gives you something to "do" while listening and will give you a better understanding of what's going on in a piece until you're a better listener

>>73016010
>KILL THE WABBIT!
>KILL THE WABBIT!
>KILL THE WABBIT!

>>73018081
Postmodern classical music is similar to postmodern art, whatever your opinion on it, it is still art. Actually it is less deskilled so I assume positivists respect it more, even if they don't understand it.

>>73018103
Sure, Rameau is inherently tone-deaf.

>>73018081
>You don't have to do that with classical music but it certainly enhances it.

That's the thing, I don't really get into it unless I sit down and focus on it, otherwise it just serves as background noise when I could listen to something else like jazz which is more straightforward.

>>73018100
>he can't enjoy the 5th symphony

I'm so sorry anon

>>73018098
>Here's my tip: take drugs and listen to classical music. You may also wait for an epiphany, but that may take forever, since it's such a personal experience. Being stoned will immediatly put you in that mood that is required for the appreciation of any art. After that first experience, drop the dychotomy drug-art, since it will only dull you in the long run.


Holy fuck, kill yourself you dilettante. Drugs to appreciate classical music? You need a clear head for it, you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>73018132
It's not about enjoyment. I can derive some form of enjoyment from most music. It's about what is actually subconsciously powerful and resonating to the listener.

>>73018147
Weed destroys art for me. Light opiates or benzos open it up. Allows you to put aside the will for the moment, which is the key to appreciating any art.

>>73018124
I really don't see how Classical is background noise but Jazz isn't.

The two are both structured genres with depth.

>>73018156
Yeah, you do need a certain level of intelligence (which you lack) to appreciate classical music. If it is art, it is not for all, and if it is for all, it is not art

>>73018156
That too. But it's fine, since you appreciate Wagner. What from him is your favorite?

>>73018184
>If it is art, it is not for all, and if it is for all, it is not art
That's the most backwards shit you could possibly say.

>>73018104
I've been playing electric guitar for about 8 years and I'm trying to learn how to play piano and classical guitar, but right now I can just barely read the sheet music of even the easiest stuff like Moonlight Sonata. But I guess listening to more classical guitar works is a good place to start since they usually only have the guitar and nothing else going on compared to shit like gigantic symphonies.

>>73018184
Okay.
>>73018187
Tristan und Isolde because I'm a basic bitch.

>>73018192
You don't even need to be able to read it in detail. As long as you can follow along I recommend it.

>>73018147
>Drugs to appreciate classical music? You need a clear head for it, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I've talked about using drugs to kickstart classical music appreciation. You take it once, you will SURELY notice something that you like about that music and then you sober up.
That guy's problem is that there is probably no moment he can't stop himself from listening to. He has probably listened distractly to some meme piece, without understanding not even one moment of it: he can't even use emotional and aesthetic attachment to justify the practice of listening to classical music.
You may as well have a fun time with drugs and music once, and understand what it's like to appreciate music. After that, as I said, he should keep expanding his knowledge mostly while (mostly, if he wants) sober. Stop being such a pussy.

>>73018192
Moonlight Sonata isn't easy. You need an actual beginner piano book.

>>73018160
Your drug addled brain is clearly incapable of appreciating art. You think Bach was on opiates while composing? You think - no you don't think. You desecrate art through your degenerate behavior.

>>73018219
dude chill with the autism

>>73018190
I didn't say it first. Just quoting Shoenberg, faggot.

>>73018219
M8 you're right, it is, that's why I use drugs. They help me to appreciate it. Maybe I can't up to your standards but it helps me. I'm fairly intelligent, for what it's worth.

>>73018209
Me too

>>73018219
Bach was extremely used to alcohol, no other drug was available to him.
Generally, most great composers used liberally drugs in a way or anoher, ranging from tobacco to opiates. It's not a prerequisite for artistic success and appreciation, rather it is indifferent to the question: there have been many straightedge great composers and many composers that would have been seen nowadays as drug addicts.

>>73018240
>I'm fairly intelligent

why are you doing drugs then?

>>73018098
WTF are you talking about, classical music in one of these genres where you need to analyse every single note, you can't do that on drugs. Stop being such a junkie shit, there's nothing good about drugs.

>>73018257
They're really fun. Why shouldn't I?

>>73016010
fpbp

>>73018257
Not sure. You sound like my mom!

>>73018267
because you're drowning in bliss rather than living an authentic ascetic lifestyle?

>>73018283
You don't really sound like an ascetic

>>73018254
>many composers that would have been seen nowadays as drug addicts
You are pulling that info directly from your asshole. All great composers where: a) white b) christian c) sober. The rules of morality are also the rules of art.

>>73018287
I loved when Jesus turned water into grape juice

>>73018286
why is that?

>>73018259
You're a retard, it takes either years of ear training, or multiple listenings in order to do such a thing on the spot, and in both cases this anon has no reason to do so, since he still simply don't like classical music.
You may need theory to appreciate fully, but to reach that stage you have to have some emotional attachment to it (otherwise you would have no reason to study so much), which is why it makes sense to use drugs to trigger such a reaction. By the way I'm paraphrasing Schopenhauer and Nietzsche here, it's not a crazy pontification of mine.

>>73018287
Bach drank alcohol every night, Mozart and Beethoven were downright alcoholics. Here's your big 3 sober greatest composers.

>>73018283
Is posting on 4chan part of your ascetic lifestyle?
Also
>authentic
>ascetic
>implying

>>73018166
I mostly listen to stuff like jazz fusion lately which doesn't really have the same kind of emotional message and complexity that classical has, and has more conventional song structures so I don't really need to think about it, it's just fun music. Something like Weather Report isn't exactly comparable to a huge, hours long symphony with multiple movements and stuff.

It's got depth when you're talking about the theory side of it but that's not really something you have to think about when listening unless you're some kind of turbo autist who needs to pick apart everything.

>>73018306
>paraphrasing Schopenhauer and Nietzsche
>drugs 420 lmao

Holy shit, stop doing drugs

>Bach had wine with supper, him and Mozart and Beethoven were alcoholics!
dude

>>73018341
Haven't you even seen Amadeus?

is this /pseud/ general?

>>73018341
>Holy shit, stop doing drugs
Comfirmed for never having read neither Nietzsche nor Schopenhauer. Fuck you for associating me with shitty contemporary subcultures.

>dude
Bach was a regular in a nearby tavern, he would visit it every single night, after concerts and rehearsals.
Mozart's and Beethoven's alcoholism is well documented. Mozart was basically always drunk, Beethoven downright lost, once you add all the years he spent in this state, almost a decade of his life doing nothing, due to emotional crisis' and heavy alcoholism.

>>73018306
Learning music theory is cool, it helps you to appreciate every genre, not only classical music, everybody on this board should try. Drugs are a waste of time, not learning

>>73018378
Have you read anything of what I've written. Fuck off.

>>73018365
no, go back to /lit/ faggot
crossboarding pseud LARPers are the worst

>>73018377
bruh
Schopenhauer.
you actually think Schopenhauer would advocate drug use?

>>73018364
Mozart wasn't a praiseworthy person, you know. Learn how to separate the art from the artist.

>>73018393
I don't think anyone should read what you've written. Can't wait until you OD

>>73018403
Never

>>73018400
He literally advocated for opiate usage in moderation. Nietzsche was against alcohol, but also was a avid opiates/sedatives/delyrants user.

Stop discussing philosophers with summaries you've read on reddit, pleb.

>>73018403
Your point is that drugs dull your appreciation for art, my point is that is not true, and I can even use the most revered composers in the Western canon to prove you wrong.

>>73018422
go to bed Duchamp

>>73018435
Do you know where he advocated for opiate usage? It sounds familiar… WWR 3 or 4 I think

>>73018435
You're clearly misinterpreting everything you possibly can to justify your drug addiction. Seek help.

>>73018466
It's in the Essay of Freedom of Will

>‘By wine or opium we can intensify and considerably heighten our mental powers, but as soon as the right measure of stimulus is exceeded, the effect will be exactly the opposite.’

>>73018544
So he's not condoning it, nice reading comprehension...

>>73018576
He is, and in fact he used both drugs multiple times during his lifetime.
He is literally saying that opiates in the right quantities will benefit you.

>>73017988
>>73018010
Holy shit, btfo

>>73018590
>he used drugs, that means he's condoning them
>even though he literally said opium and wine have negative effects if the right measure of stimulus is exceeded (i.e. prolonged use)

idiot

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There is nothing harder to compose for orchestra.

Jazz is tricky, especially the improvisation aspect, but just sit down and THINK what you have to do to compose for orchestra.

You cant fiddle around on your guitar and write a shitty 3 note riff. You have to be an expert in music theory and a skilled pianist. That are the utmost basics.

Now comes the arrangement: no vision, no music. Just composing 10 seconds of a fully fledged score THAT ALSO SOUND INTERESTING is like writing a fucking novel.

Now sit down and listen to Wagner or fucking Rachmaninoff. Those people are one in 10 billion. Humans like these dont grow in music schools. You have to be born the way to create the things they did.

So yeah, your shitty indie band who has a keyboarder and a guy who uses an e-bow on his guitar are not equal to the mental and emotional capacities classical composers from the last centuries had.

>>73018635
Chopin was french though

>>73018637
I think "right measure of stimulus" probably refers to intensity rather than duration

>>73018665
Even though what you say is mostly correct, I don't think you are familiar with how classical composers write music. Look it up.

>>73017851
Chopin is Polish, idiot.

>>73018576
>as soon as the right measure of stimulus is exceeded
If you actually knew how to read, you'd realise this is the most important part of the sentence. This essentially says "wine and opium are good, but too much of it will fuck you up".

>>73018692
I know, I said that as bait so I could btfo later: >>73018635

I don't even hate people who do drugs, I just feel bad for them. Because you've basically got two types:

>the "dude weed" and shrooms/acid people, who always smell bad, are unshaven, have no sense of fashion, love to tell you how often, specifically when, and why they do drugs; and how it makes everything sooooo much better; most likely lives with their parents, probably works retail or has no job at all

everyone laughs at these people behind their back. and then you've got:

>the serious heroin/coke/meth/other hard drug type, who are more or less destined to be failures in life, possibly even homeless, because it is borderline impossible to stop relapsing on that stuff once you've done it, and these are the kinds of people where you just think "damn what went so wrong?" most likely had shitty abusive childhoods

and I know someone's gonna reply to this post and be like "pssht bro I smoke weed every day and I'm the CEO of this big company and I'm loaded and I have a beautiful wife who smokes weed with me" but we all know that's bullshit.

and the idea that drugs "open your mind" to music is complete bullshit, as others itt have said, classical music is something that is supposed to be paid attention to in a clear state of mind.

>>73018713
oh, of course you did. bullshit

>>73018665

this

>>73018682

Care to elaborate?

>>73018671
No he wasn't, he was Polish. If even you look his name up on Google right now, the entire first page is full of links that state he is Polish. He was born and raised in Poland, dude. Just cos he moved to Paris doesn't make him French.

>>73018707
see: >>73018637


>>73018677
Probably refers? So you're just dismissing the other half of the meaning just because it doesn't sit well with you?

>>73018723
That guy blew you the fuck out, you should probably stop posting your spergouts outs it just makes you look autistic.

>>73018762
Read interviews with Shoenberg, and Music and musicians; essays and criticisms by Schumann
it's online somewhere

>>73018765
I'm not sure you understand how reading works

>>73018772

what guy? that was my first post itt

>>73018744
I'm Polish myself, mr bullshit

>>73018789
boohoo, baby's world views have been challenged and now she has to grow up and stop doing drugs

>>73018765
If he's talking about prolonged exposure, the phrase "measure of stimulus" is a pretty bad way of putting it. The word measure tends to have a very specific temporal implication. There is no reference to time at all in this sentence, meaning that, if anything, you're projecting your own morals onto Schopenhauer and inferring something that isn't there.

>>73018828
Is he's talking, which he isn't, he's writing and he's doing it in German. Speaking of which, how come I can't find the words "opium" or "wine" in the entire essay? Where did you get that quote from, philosopher.eu?

>>73018892
I'm not that guy, so I don't know where he got the quote from. I was discussing the quote itself and the fact that you were very clearly choosing an interpretation of that quote that fit with your own ideals. Regardless of whether that quote is even real, your reading comprehension is still very much in doubt here.

>>73018892
Not that person and I found it on pg. 53 of the Cambridge Editions. Schopenhauer did a lot of editing so it's very possible he added it or excised it

>>73018946
A "measure of stimulus" is clearly both meaning the quantity taken at one and the prolonged use, which is substantiated by the rest of the text.

>>73019008
I'm not so sure. Here's the start of that paragraph

>The second kind of cause is stimulus, i.e. the sort of cause that, firstly, undergoes no counter-effect itself in proportion to its influence, and in which, secondly, no equality whatsoever pertains between its intensity and the intensity of the effect. Consequently here the degree of the effect cannot be measured and determined in advance from the degree of the cause: rather, a small increase in the stimulus can cause a very great increase in the effect, or even conversely remove the previous effect altogether, or indeed bring about an opposed one.

He's talking about individual occurrences of the stimulus in any case, so prolonged use (if you mean by that repeated use) is not totally relevant.

What's more, prolonged use is not at all relevant to the very beginning of this discussion, when someone suggested that drugs be used once or twice to form a connection to a work of art

>>73019008
Provide evidence that it is substantiated by the rest of the text. Because there is nothing in the given quote that currently suggests it is about prolonged use. So no, it isn't "clearly" both. I've already explained that the word measure has a specific temporal implication. You, however, have just claimed it means what you say it means, hiding behind the fallactious "well, it's pretty obvious that's what it means" wall that you nu-/lit/ users like to hide behind.

>>73019090
>provide evidence
>nu-lit user
>doesn't even have access to Schopenhauer

>>73018795
Glad to see fellow Polish anon. To nie byłem ja z tym >>73018744 komentarzem, po prostu poczułem się striggerowany, że ktos może nam odebrać Chopina i uznać go za Francuza.

>>73019107
The burden of proof falls on you, you simpleton. Again, another nu-/lit/ cliche: "Why should I have to back up my claims? You should do you own research rather than having me explain it to you". It both allows you to feel pompous and superior, whilst not exposing your ignorance. We are having a discussion. If you make a claim, you have to back it up. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard if you're as well-versed in Schopenhauer as you seem to imply.

Been fun talking guys. Bye

>>73019165
lol, keep trying I won't spoon feed you
can't spoon feed education or intelligence anyway

just go to a book store an buy some books

>>73019193
BTFO

>>73019199
Oh, I see. So you actually don't have any evidence. Funny thing is, just earlier you were the one saying that you couldn't even find that quote in Schopenhauer's essays, when that anon was actually pulling more quotes from it to prove you wrong. You haven't even responded to him either. You know it's easier to respond to me because I'm asking you to provide evidence for your claim, letting you hide behind your "spoonfeed" excuse. His quote even specifically mentions "intensity". You're fighting a losing (or even lost) battle here. Just admit that you fucked up and don't understand Schopenhauer quite as much as you thought you did.

>>73019249
srsly dude, shopenhauer isn't that hard to get into - you just have to start
start with the greeks

>>73017312
this is bullshit and you know it, read more

>>73017139
>this part is true
sure, but people take it to ridiculous extremes
such as the absurd claim that top 40 is just as musically complex as classical and jazz
which is objectively wrong
but I'm not saying that complexity = quality/value

>>73019413
>complex as classical and jazz

I want this meme to end

>>73019456
blanket statements, I know, but you get the point
and there's plenty of metal, idm, folk, etc. that's musically complex
didn't mean to sound like such a pretentios fuck
my bad
I'm just retarded

>>73019497
>there's plenty of metal, idm, folk, etc. that's musically complex

I want this meme to end. I don't think you're getting me.

>>73019510
what is complex, anon

>>73018100
I don't know if I agree with this, but this is the best post in this thread.

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Is it possible to be a classical music fan without being autistic?

>>73015978
Way to make classical listeners look like faggots.

>>73019795
Yes, just don't act like OP and the fags in this thread

>>73019705
classical music

>>73019809
Oh no, what will we do
teenagers from /mu/ think we're gay!

>>73019795
Why would you want to not be autistic?
We're the only ones that can appreciate the finer things in life.

>>73020000
like repeating digits and trap porn?

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>>73020025
Correct.

>>73018100
boulez please go back to your grave

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>he thinks classical music fans do not have a right to being smug
music taste is superficial and doesn't matter
you are unimportant
your music taste is even more so unimportant

>>73020318
oh boy, why don't you kill yourself if everything is so unimportant

>>73018219
Bach was a caffeine addict.

>>73018257
Actuallly many studies seem to indicate that people who use drugs moderately are actually more intelligent.

>>73018287
Did he just imply christians don't use drugs?

>>73018723
There are two types of people in this world.
Those who see the world in black and white and those who don't.
You are the prior.

>>73021499
fuck off moral relativist, I won't let you destroy the western world

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>>73017312
>can't never be

>>73021499
is this intentionally ironic

What is even going on in this thread?

>>73021672
yes.

>>73021871
good

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>using the term classical seriously
>not using its genres and subgenres like opera, chamber music in sonata form, lied etc.

>being a fan of music and not listening to any such much

Anons why

>>73021521
Too late, we won ;)

>>73021521
Wow, I am a moral relativist because I critisize someone for assuming to know everything about someone based on one habit? Are you actually this retarded?

>>73017312
My favourite music piece of all time are:
Mahler's 9th
Trout mask replica
Tristan and Isolde
Love supreme
Desertshore

The VU destroy any hope of what you are saying being true.

>>73021988
>Tristan and Isolde instead of Tristan und Isolde
Nice try, pseud, you're not fooling anyone.

>>73021943
You are a moral relativist because you think the world is gray and there is no black and white. Moral relativism is a philosophy, I am not criticizing (see? I spelled it right) your actions but what your statements amount to.

>>73015978

I went to the Eastman School of Music with a performance major, and I don't think you can honestly compare classical music to pop or rock. There was an absolutely huge shift in how people interact with music when recordings came along.

There're all of these old weird editions of symphonies floating around, so you can find a Haydn symphony arranged for piano, cello, and clarinet. This is because for most people, that was the only way they'd ever hear it. To hear a symphony, you needed a whole bunch of dudes playing it for you live, and if you couldn't get to Vienna, then you're stuck getting your family and friends to kind of play it with you. As performances could never be captured, even great ones fade into total obscurity fast.

Now, with recordings, performers can achieve the master status that used to be reserved for composers. You don't have to compose a piece of music to live forever; your youthful energy can be bottled up, and it'll outlive us all. You can't have rock and pop music without recordings, and you can't have performers like we have now without recordings. It's all stuff that you listen to, but they're totally different worlds.

>>73022087
>he doesn't know what moral relativism is...

If you are going to call someone something, it might be a good idea to know what it means.

>>73022189
Oh no, he can't operate beyond the lexiconal definitions! Go back to school kid, what way to cop out.

This thread is autistic

>>73022256
So is this board.

>>73022219
Are you really telling me I'm copping out because you do not know what something means? Are you trolling or so convinced that you cannot be wrong? Let me explain so you can understand.

Moral relativism is a philosophical belief that morality (right and wrong) is subjective or are relative to a particular standpoint. Seeing the world in black and white means that you are not able to see the nuances in numerous things, and fail to realise that things (personality for example) are more of a spectrum than just two sheets of black and white.

goddammit I keep on clicking on this thread accidentally, thinking I'm in /classical/, and it takes me an absurdly long time to realize that the air of elitism and shitposting is slightly different from what I'm used to

>>73022406
>Moral relativism is a philosophical belief that morality (right and wrong) is subjective or are relative
> fail to realise [sic!] that things (personality for example) are more of a spectrum than just two sheets of black and white.

Yeah, you seem to have read a lexicon definition of moral relativism and not understood it completely and haven't realized (this is the correct spelling) that your beliefs are that of a moral relativist.

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>>73022469
>realise [sic!]
he could ya know be english
regardless, black and white mentalities are for people who don't leave the house (literally or metaphorically) and have no clue how actual social dynamics work

>>73022523
So what you're saying is that there is no good (white) and evil (black), and that you are a moral relativist?

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>>73022557
>good (white) and evil (black)
the hell? are you some kind of racist? ugh, yikes, *these* types. *rolls eyes*

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>Every single one of you

>>73022587
Yeah, grey world is much better, can't wait for the interracial breeding grounds to open up in my area

>>73022645
leave the house guy

>>73022641
Every single one of us doesn't watch cartoons, so use the English language next time.

>>73017312
>can't never
good

>>73022665
Neither do I.

>>73022469
It doesn't matter what my believes are. The fact remains that moral relativism isn't connected to my point that you see the world in a very simple black and white manner.
Realise is the correct spelling.
The fact you are convinced of what my philosophical standpoint are without me having told you or me having hinted toward what those believes might be, only further proves that you have a very simple understand of the world around you.

>>73022706
I don't think you've ever been exposed to that much literature.
www.princeton.edu/~harman/Papers/Moral%20Relativism%20Explained.pdf

Read this and you will find that you probably agree with 90% of it's contents, just as your posts seem to agree with it.

>>73022557
Oke, you have shown yourself you don't know what moral relativism is. You don't need to make yourself look even more stupid be showing you do not understand the black/white metaphor.
He is not saying there is no good or evil, he is saying that people who thinks that a person who is only purely evil or good is retarded, like yourself.

>>73022759
So your telling me I do not know what my own standpoints are because you read a book? You are seriously one of the biggest idiots I have ever come across. I do not believe in moral relativism. I believe things are objectively good and some things are objectively evil, actions have consequences and those clearly show themselves to be beneficial or not beneficial.

>>73022820
There are no objectively good/bad things, geez dude. World is not black and white.

>>73022764
Let's go back to the beginning. The initial post about "black and white" said that such things as using drugs are not good or bad, they are grey. That is a position of a moral relativist. A claim that actions aren't purely good or bad. Nobody said anything about people.

>>73022903
>The initial post about "black and white" said that such things as using drugs are not good or bad, they are grey
Oke, I never said that go back and read it. I was critisizing someone for saying people who use drugs are either "dude weed lmao" or hardcore heroin addicts. I am not going to keep responding to you when you keep strawmanning me.
But yes some aspects of drugs are good and some are bad. That's not moral relativism though. A lot of actions are not purely good or evil (some are imo), if you think that they are then you're stupid.

The moral of this story is that you do not understand what the difference between moral relativism and the black and white metaphor is.

>>73023051
Topkek, stop being so desperate, you don't have to win every battle. I hope you are a greater man and you will educate yourself instead of thinking you're a positivist while talking like a postmodernist. I doubt it though, I think you're just 18 and have some growing up to do.

>>73023145
You've really presented no good arguments and your entire standpoint is based on your own ignorance and misconceptions.
Alright then, and still daring to accuse me of copping out. Take a good look at yourself
>you're desperate, you're a child!

>>73023214
It's not my fault you are so adamant about failing to understand my posts. I'm just trying to appeal to humanity rn, just because I care about truth

>>73023268
more like trying to appeal to your own ego am i right

>>73023268
I understand your posts, I understand that you don't understand what certain things mean and that you pretend to do anyway. Making yourself look completely stupid in the progress. If you use logical fallacies as arguments, then you don't care about the truth. You care about not humiliating yourself (mission failed).
>>73023295
This isn't me btw.

>>73023268
I'm a faggot.

>>73023295
>>73023386
This isn't me btw.

>>73023413
Are you actually this mad?

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>>73017312
>being this pretentious
Also bad art is still art.

>>73021988

>Mahler's 9th
Extremely good choice and my favorite symphony as well.
>Trout Mask Replica
Great choice again, one of two truly incredible rock albums ever released (the other being Twin Infinitives)
>Tristan und Isolde
9/10 choice.
>Love Supreme
As good a choice as you could make for jazz music. For me it's tied with Cecil Taylor's "Unit Structures" as the best jazz.

>Desertshore
Boring, gay, sucks ass. 3/10.

>The VU
Only with Sister Ray, the Black Angel's Death Song, and European Son is this true.