/classical/

https://clyp.it/wdttgnde
Since mus priduction thread is trash, critque my small chamber set

Handel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnFnkhHPBbk

>>71945991
>I'm getting pretty close to saying there are no good American conductors period anymore
>only good conductors of American orchestras I can think of are Fins
Is he right?

>>71950468
Maybe MTT?

And Nezet-Seguin can sneak in if you're saying North American as opposed to USA.

Why can't I download any of these?

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>mfw ((((((((((Bernstein))))))))))

Biber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fd5B1Evwqo

>>71950150
based bruggen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLI7RHSq5wo

Buxtehude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y_OsHN79qc

>mega keeps blocking me because I exceeded my download quota

>>71950889
>((((Horowitz))))

Pachelbel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPkWBbmV2FE

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This thread is in severe need of good music, like Rameau's.

Screw the Gertards composers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVK32Htqs-4

Enjoy some Gedda-sung Schubert from the greatest channel on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eMUW3O82-E

>>71952053
spoopy

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I'll just leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN876Kp4ENU
This will be our little secret.

What is the best ending to an opera?

>>71953271
Mozart

>>71953271
Everyone dies but it's only a dream

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debussy is the best composer ever

>>71953409
t. sssy fuccboi

>>71949658
Satie single-handedly killed teutonic romanticism

xenakis sucks

>>71953271
A fugue

>>71953271
Salome, Tristan or Cunning Little Vixen
>>71953754
So Falstaff then?

Hello /classical/. Give me some harp music please. Do any good harp concertos exist?

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does /classical/ wanna hear a fugue?

https://clyp.it/2yryj1mq

>>71954154
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc6-KozGK3c

>>71954162
fuck off poly

>>71954154
mozzart is a must hear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUrvEOeNp1I

gliere is god tier too

>>71954197
poly can't write fugues

>>71949658
hey guys, i've been wanting to expand my library on classical for a while its just hard knowing where to start. I'm into composers like Xenakis, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Goreki, John Cage and Stockhausen. Im downloading some stuff by Edgard Verese right now, is there anything you'd guys wanna rec me? it would be greatly appreciated

>>71954216
*varese oopsie

>>71954216
xenakis sucks

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>>71954216

>>71954216
i recommend you go back to rym

>>71954154
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_vzEHGQBhI

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>>71954216
I was going to reccomend you stuff since I love Stravinsky and Xenakis has a few phenomenal compositions even though most of his stuff is not that interesting conceptually and not good to listen to, but then you listen junk composers like Goreki and Shostakobich and two literal memes.

Obvious shitpost is obvious.

>>71954292
>Romantic Harp Concertos Compilation
>Handel, Mozart...
>Romantic

>>71954295
>Xenakis
xenakis sucks

>>71954375
The bulk of his stuff sucks, yeah. But when he gets something right, he gets it amazingly right. He's like Messiaen: a few absolute gems in a sea of refuse. That puts him on a higher level than creatively bankrupt rehashers like Shostakovich.

>>71954295
Don't regress into an angry caveman when you see something you don't like. Your preferences are wildly distinct from the preferences of everyone else. Whatever you think is a "junk composer" or "interesting conceptually" is just a reflection of your personal perspective, which no one cares about nearly as much as you do.

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>>71954506
>creatively bankrupt rehashers like Shostakovich

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU

Whats the best version of Mozarts KV 525 "Eine kleine Nachtmusik"?

>>71954506
xenakis sucks

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>>71954532
really made me think

>>71954653
Sándor Végh

>>71954627
I am God.
>>71954683
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH0ss-cIigk
>>71954532
>Whatever you think is a "junk composer" or "interesting conceptually" is just a reflection of your personal perspective
Except my personal perspective just so happens to give shape to what is colloquially known as objective reality.

>>71954653
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owTfMUmZhuc

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>>71954843
You are no talent, self-consumed, mediocre piece of shit.

>>71954209
>>71954177
>>71954292
Merci.

>>71954843
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH0ss-cIigk [Embed]
xenakis sucks

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>>71954295
>xenakis is good
>shostakovich is junk

wew lad

>>71954977
They both suck.

>>71950468
>MTT deniers

>>71954843
>Except my personal perspective just so happens to give shape to what is colloquially known as objective reality.

>xenakis
>objectively good
jesus christ this guy

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>>71954627
>>71954889
>Small, Jewish Man Yells at Trumpet Player in New York City
By the way, I don't play trumpet.

/bump

>>71954977
Those are both the correct opinions to have.

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>>71955203
anime

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc8t3s92UCw

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>>71955309
Trashman

where do i go after mawler 1

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>>71955324

>>71955337
The next symphony chronologically like you would any other composer.

>>71955203
Yeah you play the oboe like a sissy lol

>>71955337
Petzold

>>71955198
>implying
Why yes, if anything deserves that standing, it is the hybridisation of music and mathematics. And I only said *some* of his compositions are good (because they are).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV7Sj3RRTlw

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>>71955405
BTFOOOOOOO

>>71955414
xenakis sucks

>>71955414
xenakis sucks

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>>71955421
>>71955405
>not blowing it like a champ
Afraid of the cooties little boys? Is your penis too tiny for the oboe?

Hindemith conducts Bruckner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Q2qiSdu44

>>71949757
Sounds like it'd sound way worse on real instruments. Just put the midi in a side-scroller video game and call it a day.

>>71954216
>>71954506
>>71954726
>>71954906
>>71954295

RAMEAU. How many times do I have to say it? He's literally the best composer ever ; he alone developed modern musical theory, created the modern opera and made harmony what it is. He even developed the contrepoint enough so that Bach could achieve his masterpiece.

Not to mention he did Hadyn's Creation better and before him in the Ouverture of Zaïs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U_gaFECXe8&t=2709s

>>71955754
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpUzPrbk5P4
>tfw no Carter clarinet quintet recording with McGill/Pacifica Quartet
At least we avoided a Bernie inauguration.

>>71955773
are you a very girly guy, or are you actually just one of those smug pompous girls

>>71955793
>2 minutes in
Man, the recording has so many engineering issues I'll need to chew on the table to rein my autism in. And that transfer!!! Why does it change pitch so often??? I WANT TO KILL WHOEVER DID IT!!!!!!!

Which is a shame really, I would've liked to listen to that performance.

>>71950963
Yeah, I like the mystery sonatas best.

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>>71949658
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2TNTXGNxuE
God, so fucking fire.

>>71956030

You want fire? Look no further than Rameau's depiction of hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVwaRbA_U9s

Dufay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dxpzA3HGLE

How much of this is true?

https://chris-lamb.co.uk/posts/the-truth-about-orchestral-players

Post your favourite pieces with a tenor singer.

>>71956613
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUcyvuGqOXU

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What are great family road trip pieces?

>>71956698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOxJpPiFe0k

>>71956698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI9hD1sXEBI

>>71955846
shut up please.

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>>71956113
I refuse to listen to something by someone who has put music to voltaire.

Dudamel is a faggot.

Barenboim, Levine and Mehta all went down in a plane crash. Who survived? Mozart.

>>71957734

What, you can't handle Rameau's talent? Are you a Lullist by any chance? I hope you're not a degenerate German lover, or even worse, someone who dislikes Baroque.

>>71957806

Voltaire said Rameau was a bad composer later in his life ; and the libretto Voltaire did for Le Temple de la Gloire sucks, I will grant you that. But, through his sheer genius, Rameau made a great opera out of a sucky libretto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwNvII1WF7A&t=5s

>>71958206
>through his sheer genius, Rameau made a great opera out of a sucky libretto.

80% of the great operas have awful librettos. No one goes to the opera for the quality of the writing.

>>71958305

To be fair, a huge part of Lully's success and the quality of his opera is directly linked to the awesome libretto of his operas.

>>71958415
To be fairer, Lully's music sucks.

Is this the best La Mer there is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wjrt-unlg4

>>71958448

Well, compared to Rameau he sucks, yes ; but compared to Rameau everyone sucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pi742OSQYI

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>>71958737
This is such such a nice performance and the audio is great. I prefer this to the more morose interpretations by all the usual suspects.

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>>71954843
>I am God

>>71958737
You need to go older.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHZeyLuoUGo

Uccellini

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVDVPxBRzwE

>All this hate for M. Lully
further proof Lully is underrated

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post cuck music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BweSQtoc8D0&list=RDBweSQtoc8D0#t=6

>>71960833
We don't need more Chopin here, anon.

>>71960833
see
>>71955846
>>71952397
>>71955846
>>71956113
>>71958206
>>71958872

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hunger gemes

>>71949658
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suCohWv5XVg&list=PLTDEo4_rds9stcSg9SmsFL9_c2AMQWS0A&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf9Z0MWF-yg

>>71960833
Any Mahler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_XtUs_E6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtQv6LMz_FI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2BIAj6RWCk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8KE2FeU1qc

>>71956113
oh look another of the dozens of Ramblow's pieces that sound exactly the same...

>>71960833
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHamoW_O5hY&list=PL5jgfj3cjkYBPVWK5DJK55Z86dOxEQ10u&index=56

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSYS2YzpNR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCV0miiH4rI

>>71961354
Le mister etude man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YTnhU0Yuxg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmlit4IRFfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-t8gmZsT8c

Quick, say something bad abut Chopin

>>71961596
His counterpoint is too hard for plebs to understand.

>>71961596
Got cucked by George Sand.

>>71960915

You're the cuck for not understanding the subtleties and complexity in Rameau's music, much like you can't understand your wife which is why she gets fucked by your neighbour. Go back to listening to Jay Z.

>>71960974

>Hunger Game
>No Rameau
>kek

>>71961596
>>71961782

Rameau mastered the contrepoint ; Chopin is like a playing xylophone compared to the true master, Rameau.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8_9D6Z62oE&t=2421s

>>71949757
Easy listening trash

>>71952750
Messiaen is firmly in the uncanny valley

>>71954214

neither can that guy. In fact it sounds suspiciously like a Poly fugue with the chromatic modulation of the motive.

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>>71954506
>sea of refuse
>messiaen

Anon I

>>71954853
Why is it the only thing Klemperer can conduct is Mozart?

>>71955389
>listening to Heydn's entire symphonic oeuvre

Not possible

>>71961324
>>71961354
>>71961376
>>71961354

There's a reason nobody knows these niggas. They're bland as fuck

>>71962791
they fit the topic

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>>71955972
>likes program music
The 1681 sonatas takes from the mystery sonatas everything good (i.e. tonal innovation, technical virtuosity, creative scordatura, etc.) and none of the bad (i.e. bland and generic slow movements, short pieces and unexciting major key pieces, unsatifying and anticlimatic endings, etc.).
Don't get me wrong, mystery sonatas are among some of the best collections of violin music (much better than whatever Germans came up with after the baroque period anyway), but it's far from Biber's best.

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>>71955773
Nice projection faggot. Go big or go home.

>>71960268
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nMH5ukDrNM

is György Kurtág accepted here?

>>71963303

No, only Rameau.

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>>71962882
I acknowledge the artistic merits of absolute music, but at the same time it abrogates something important in programmatic music, namely the idea that music is relatable with philosophy and the world of concepts and ideas. Absolute music permits music that is purely aesthetical, and while most people see this as a good thing, you should note that even in absolute music ideas are being expressed, but they are being expressed in an incomplete and confused way, because nowhere are those ideas actually established except in the music itself. This means that it's up for interpretation, which can succeed but most of the time fails.
Bach succeeded because bach's music is completely indifferent to what you think about it; it seems to have been the result of some long natural process; bach isn't there, there's not the awkwardness of human intent, and hence it has renewable meaning without being subjective.
People like debussy however, failed, not because he was a bad composer, but because his music is full of intent, which gives it the awkward feeling that it came out of a human being, and the only question then is whether it came out the front or the back. It totally lacks the abstraction that a rigid framework provides.
I love absolute music too, but criticizing programmatic music is bad, it's like a poet or novelist criticizing people who write theses, they are both two sides to the same coin.
I think one of the clearest examples where the two come together are the last two bruckner symphonies.
Also, are you that aria anon who has all those dank venetian music on youtube? That show was olev.

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>>71950468
>good American
>anything

>>71953271
Papageno and Papagena fucking each other.

Aschenbach

>>71954214
He sure does try though.

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>>71963799

>>71958305
The modern ones are often socio-political in manner though.

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>>71963715
But you can feel that in the mystery sonatas Biber's creativity was being stifled by the subject matter. There are melodies that sound like they were rehashed and harmonies that weren't fleshed out as much as they could. The crucifixion is the shit tho. Very fun to play.
And yeah I'm the owner of the channel. Aria is one of the best creations on this planet.

>>71963899
You play? Post recordings pls.
I been learning the bach partita 2 for a while, not even done with the allemanda though so progress is slow, probably because my theory is weak and I can't sight read.

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>>71963984
I'm really terrible. I don't record what I usually play because they sound like shit lmao.
If you want a recording here's something I did with a few /a/nons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7RrZm22Qg

>>71964043
Shieet I always wanted to do orchestr/a/, nice.
I like your sparing use of vibrato, can really hear the baroque influence.

>>71964078
Well I've also been using A415 tuning. The guys over at orchestr/a/ don't like it though.
I'd get you a recording of what that sounds like but I apparently have my history deleted.

>>71963984

The allemanda is pretty technically simple, especially at the glacial pace some perform it at. If you're having trouble with it, that means you skipped over fundamentals, scales, double stops, bow control, etc, which just means every piece you attempt will be like a blind midget going through an obstacle course. You can forget about the Chaconne with that approach.

>>71964078
>sparing use of vibrato, baroque influence

Lol, hipster fags are so idiotic. If you've ever tried an original style baroque era violin, there's no chin rest, the bridge is flat, the fingerboard is shorter, the strings are thicker gut, the tuning is lower, the bow looks like something from archery class... It's almost impossible to play a 'pure' note on such an organic instrument. Playing a sine wave on a modern violin doesn't sound similar at all, it's all theoretical nonsense cooked up by frustrated music professors who got their asses kicked by Heifetz.

Honestly, the closest anyone came to that sound in modern times was Kreisler.

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>>71964193
>no body asked for my shitty opinions but I'll tell them anyway

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>>71964193
Yeah I definitely like to play things faster, esp since it's a dance. Never understood people who play it slow as shit. Though heifetz' mite be too fast on the allemanda and too slow on the courante imo.
And yes I have trouble with all of those things but I've also made pretty good progress in all categories and been listening to every other recording of it on youtube, printed out the sheet music with technical indications, trying different fingerings, trying to play it backwards and stuff like that. I'm feeling like it takes far less effort now, so I can actually hear myself play when I'm playing instead of struggling.
I think my tempo is pretty gud though, it's faster and bouncier than perlman but slower than heifetz.

Also I don't get what you're saying about baroque instruments, I seen them before duh, I know what a baroque violin is. I said he uses little vibrato, makes it sound baroque, what's wrong with that? I mean, biber's music hardly involves any vibrato.

>>71954162
>ends on minor chord
you had ONE job

Not too bad, feels a bit stagnant rhythmically, and not a very lyrical subject, which leads to not a very lyrical fugue. Good to see you analyzing as you go though, so points for that.

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>>71963899
Upload the rest of the Sammartini Concerto in B you faggot (Op. 26 No. 3). Why'd you upload just the third movement? The continuo on that performance is great. Guitar and organ? Oboener for the ages.

so we have rameau shitposter, anime cretin, who else

How come there are zero (null) Arabic composers?

Even blacks have Julius Eastman. What's up with Muslims/Arabs?

>>71965312
Islam prohibits music.
>>71965267
There's more than one animefag by my count. Is the oboefag the same guy who posted girls with cellos a lot a few days ago?

>>71965312

Arabs introduced coffee to the world, which you could argue is behind every great Western work post dark ages...

Please stop posting anime. Post qts instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrIQbadXX74

>>71965387
Don't forget their numerals.

>>71965267
B O G P O S T E R

>>71965267
>>71965710
Rameauposter and Bogposter might be the same guy. They have the same writing style.

>>71964193
Yeah, I'm not much of a fan of the choppy staccato effect that the HIPsters usually succumb to when playing on baroque violins. Seems like they would benefit greatly from some portamento, ala Kreisler, as you suggest.

>>71962648

It's true tho.

>>71966079

I post quality Rameaus and you compared me to the Bogposter? Such a tragedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WJKcQ79Ogw&t=8s

>>71966790
I like Rameau's The Festival of Hebes. Give me something similar.

>>71966790
What are your thoughts on Kudritskaya?

https://youtu.be/HuJ-LKEH6W0

>>71967065

On it, boss!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwNvII1WF7A&t=6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8_9D6Z62oE&t=2424s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6xqw_oHqqU&t=1062s

>>71967122

She seems to be in a sort of trance with all the movements she makes with her head ; especially when she smiles.

Otherwise, she plays well, though it's better on a harpsichord.

Is Bach's grand mass worth listening to even though most of it is made up of recycled material fro previous compositions?

Post springtime pieces
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xHIhcstxUM

>>71967411
Yes, especially in concerts.

>>71967881
Most springlike feeling music can convey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oeUH206Im0

>>71967881

The Confessions of Isobel Gowdie by James Macmillan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JRhWAv1hUo
NOthing says spring like burning a witch at the stake.

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>>71967881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKqe75kfQCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fahsREaFkyU

>>71968174
Oh macmillan is the man.

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I have a question about how to play pic related.
In particular how strict one should play the note value or the duration of the bass notes. Throughout the piece they're quarter notes, yet many performances I've listened to let them ring , often for the whole measure. Is there a justification for this?

>>71969216

just be yourself

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>>71965239
http://laquintademahler.com/shop/detalle.aspx?id=108081

>>71969216
>Is there a justification for this?
Basso continuo.

>>71969648
I hadn't thought of that, thanks.
Isn't a basso continuo usually more than just a single-note accompaniment, with quite some freedoms regarding ornamentations? Or am I confusing this with the Generalbass?

>>71949658
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiiAUECbIaw
This is the most beautiful shit.
Are there any videos of kreisler playing?

>>71970261
he has a pretty great Brahms VC even if the balance favors the violin waaay to much.

check pippo's website

>>71970261
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFY35jnVp1Q

>>71970328
honestly with all the denoising and poor EQ, he sounds like he's underwater

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>>71969909
Continuo is entirely improvised. That note is there to give you the root. In the Bach piece for lute you posted the bass notes are vestigial of that practice, that's why they aren't muted after the duration of the written note ends. You need to remember that musical notation is suggestive (mnemonic), not exact.

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>>71970429
>Continuo is entirely improvised

>>71970503
I'm talking about the historical practise not the Bach piece you numb-nut. Bach actually bothered to write the bass line he wanted down but he's not doing the typical thing.

Feel free to ignore the bass part by the way. Most players in Bach's lifetime most likely did the same. Bach probably didn't play the same bass line that he wrote down every time either.

Scarlatti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VccwugFx0Kk

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>Tuba Concerto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK5KaYXJsrg

>>71970594
Even in historical practise continuo is not entirely improvised.

Gardiner's Brahms is nice and all but I kinda want to kill the audio engineer.

This is honestly one of the most unnatural recordings I've heard. Jesus

>>71970811
Why the hell would he write a tuba concerto? Was alcohol to blame? Did he lose a bet?
>concertos for contrabassoon exist

>>71970908
>an extremely obvious bias towards the right ear, to the point where it sounds like there were mics right and center, but none in the left side
>glaring dynamic manipulations, instrumental spotlighting appearing out of nowhere in some of the climaxes, where you audibly notice the gain-riding
>dynamic compression
>exaggerated mid-range, little bass
>whole recording generally sounds hollow, absolutely no air to it

It's a shame because I find myself nodding at the interpretive decisions, but I can't stomach this.

Can anyone help identify this performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5oVgqIbOqw

Which is the best list of the greatest composers?

The standard go-to reliable and respected list?

>>71971209
please don't ask for that here;
the most active people in these threads are the weird snowflakes with warped tastes who constantly try to claim something like "Xenakis is objectively good" etc.

>>71971238
Don't listen to this Snowflake

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>>71971238
Bitch, I will spread your legs and drill a boypussy through your testicles.

>>71971209
Mine.

More seriously--
Most scholarly works agree to a surprising degree on which composers are important historically. Beyond that though, you're in intellectual swamp land. You can reasonably construct a partially ordered set in a natural / canonical way, but a non-arbitrary totally ordered one might very well be the solution to an intractable problem.

>>71971452
>partially ordered set
>intractable problem

are you a mathematician? is that why you like xenakis? I've never found any material on the actual maths xenakis used to construct his work

>>71971033
The last two concertante works VW wrote were for tuba and harmonica. He got a bit eclectic in his later years

>>71970429
>>71970594
Guy who asked the original question here. Thanks, I really appreciate the information.
So the bass is a basso continuo as it only accompanies the voice and as it was practise in that time it can be interpreted very freely.

When was the last time you listened to the complete ring cycle?

>>71971665
Yeah. In most baroque music the basso line is played "as written" by the cello, and other continuo instruments (keyboard instruments and guitar/lute/theorbo) read the figured bass - a shorthand way of notating chords that was popular until it was replaced by the triadic approach we've used since then.

>>71971712
I listen to Rheingold, Siegfried, and Acts 2/3 of Gotterdammerung a few times a year. Don't really listen to the full thing anymore, especially Walkure which I find to be the worst entry.

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Alright I pruned this list from 'Classical Music: The 50 Greatest Composers and Their 1, 000 Greatest Works' by a Phil Goulding, whoever that is.

Any better than this?

>>71971712
In "one sitting" (i.e. one per day for four days) was in July/August last year. But I listen to the individual operas more often.
I was actually messing around with some of Siegmund's music earlier today after listening to lots of heldentenor comparison videos last night

I don't understand why anybody would listen to Wagner

I don't have time to listen to a 3 hour opera

waaay too long

>>71971804
>Palestrina chucked in to satisfy the complaint that "this list doesn't have any Renaissance on it"
Everytime

But of that list, the main ones who leap out as "definitely don't belong" are Borodin and Johann Strauss. Franck too, since the only reason he would be there is to provide a source of French Romantic organ music and you've got Saint-Saens there already, who is better overall.

Everything else is something of a matter of taste, although as usual there is a heavy bias towards romantics on these lists so you could probably prune a few more if necessary.

>>71971771
Really? I always thought Siegfried the most uneventful.

>>71971945
Walkure is the most popular "favourite" of the cycle, Siegfried is the one that everyone loves to hate because Siegfried isn't a particularly likeable "hero", but uneventful isn't really the case. I'd say it's certainly more introspective (as far as Siegfried is capable of that) since he often spends time alone, thinking aloud to himself, similar to Wotan's monologuing - which is also interesting, but often criticised by newcomers to Wagner - interspersed with action.

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>>71970826
There are lute and violoncello/gamba continuo parts that were not written by the composer and are completely improvised.
https://youtu.be/fNGa85l1luM
This Biber piece here has only violin and harpsichord parts composed.
>>71971516
I'm a mathematical physicist and I hate all contemporary music including Xenakis. Anyone could spout technical jargon on a Siberian glacial excavation forum, doesn't mean they actually study the shit. In fact I'd go as far as to say that his pretentious use of language is exactly why a dilettante looks him loves hacks like Xenakis.

>>71972103
>looks
Like*

>>71971516
Since you asked, yes I have a degree in pure maths, but no, I am not a (career) mathematician. I quit graduate school and read/do maths mostly as recreation now. Same as music.
But no, that's not *entirely* why I like Xenakis. I find that some of his pieces are genuinely enjoyable to listen to, irrespective of the conceptual framework behind them. I've posted Kottos a couple of times in this general already. I find that piece very soothing (with all its eery melodies and distorted textures) to listen to. In this particular case for the same reasons I like Bruckner; the way I hear it Xenakis is merely using a different acoustic toolset (a toolset that includes scratches, for example).

This stuff is too subjective and hard to put into words. I pay a lot of attention to accidental/incidental/non-intended elements in performances in general.
That's why I like live recitals above everything even when the performance isn't spectacular. Cracking chairs, page turns, the clanking of the keys on wind instruments etc. (I hate coughing though. Probably because coughing is asynchronous with the performance.)
I'm hypersensitive (sensorially, not emotionally); I have hyperaesthesia. Maybe that has something to do with it too. No idea.

That Xenakis used mathematics extensively to aid his composition is not that important, except insofar as his works are discernibly structured. Mathematics is already embedded into music. Most composers and listeners are simply not actively/consciously aware of it. Anyone who's dabbled with tuning systems has run into maths. There's no way around it. Beyond that, group theory is a very natural mathematical framework for modelling musical compositions because group theory is the language of all point by point correspondences (stuff like symmetry, translation equivalences and so forth being direct resultant mathematical 'phenomena' of such punctual correspondences) whatever those points may be (including pitches).

>>71972103
>pretentious
Blow me.
>physicist
In translation: shit-for-brains.

>>71972396

You claim Xenakis used mathematics? Good deal. Rameau literally developed himself the use of mathematics in musical theory and had a correspondence with Euler himself who claimed Rameau was amazing.

Rameau literally incorporated mathematical ideas in all of his work, on top of being able to convey deep emotions and strong well-developed ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlVsEnOpCao&t=1723s

>>71972509
Retards like you (as well as Xenakis, Berlioz, etc.) who doesn't know how to distinguish between mathematical formal beauty and the artistic aesthetics beauty is exactly what gives the STEM field the label of autism.

>>71972396
good post

>>71972396
> because group theory is the language of all point by point correspondences (stuff like symmetry, translation equivalences and so forth being direct resultant mathematical 'phenomena' of such punctual correspondences) whatever those points may be (including pitches).
Probably the stupidest description of groups I've ever heard.

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>>71972635
(hue (hue (hue

Mathematics and musical theory have been intertwined since Pythagoras. Rameau only discovered a particular way in which to analyse harmony. But yeah, Rameau is interesting. A shame he was too attuned to the court and its tastes. Zoroaster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtuvIO6f7vU

He largely abandoned his more ambitious experiments in tonality because the court didn't like it, the fucking philistines.

>>71972981
What? Why would you hate Berlioz? He is one of the most significant figures in the emotivist trend in music. Or did you mean Boulez? Funny thing is, I can't stand his music either. Evidently: I like structure, not its absence or its elision. I have an intense dislike of serialism (uniformisation in one dimension == loss of structure) and most forms of 'aleatoric music' (including when Xenakis does it). I like order, not entropy.

>mathematical formal beauty and the artistic aesthetics beauty
To the degree that 'beauty' has an objective existence they are one and the same thing. The rest is in the ear of the listener. Even when he's autistic.

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>>71973533
>they're one and the same

>>71973533
>To the degree that 'beauty' has an objective existence they are one and the same thing.
How do you know this? It could just be that they stimulate the brain in entirely different ways and we just happened to use the same word (beauty) to label them both.

>>71972396
>But no, that's not *entirely* why I like Xenakis. I find that some of his pieces are genuinely enjoyable to listen to, irrespective of the conceptual framework behind them. I've posted Kottos a couple of times in this general already. I find that piece very soothing (with all its eery melodies and distorted textures) to listen to. In this particular case for the same reasons I like Bruckner; the way I hear it Xenakis is merely using a different acoustic toolset (a toolset that includes scratches, for example).
Ah, this is exactly the same way I feel about formally constructed music also. But in that case, isn't it a bit of a stretch to call the music "objectively good", like you did last thread?

>>71973510
It's not a description of groups. It's a characterisation of group theory in layman's terms. I doubt anyone ITT besides me (and maybe the physicist; are you that guy btw? I'm beginning to doubt you're actually a physicist if so) actually cares about how a group is defined set-theoretically.

>>71973670
Go into more details, I don't see what exactly you are disagreeing with.

>>71973533

Well he was influenced by the court, but if you look at Platée he still managed to innovate and show his work on musical theory and harmony despite the social conventions.

>>71973935
>Go into more details, I don't see what exactly you are disagreeing with.
If your appreciation of Xenakis is more rooted in personal enjoyment of the sounds, rather than the rigorous structure of the pieces, isn't that more subjective than objective?

Also,
>I doubt anyone ITT besides me actually cares about how a group is defined
I'm not that guy but I'm also currently studying pure maths at uni. Lots of mathematicians like their music, I think.

>>71971516
>>71971238
>>71972103
>>71972396
>>71974062
>>71973670
>>71972981
>>71972635
>>71972396
>>71972103
xenakis sucks

>>71974062
It's rooted in both. I derive personal enjoyment from the arrangement of the elements of the composition as well as their nonstructural qualities (some timbre might simply sound good to me or whatever).
Enjoyment/personal appreciation is always subjective (listener-dependent). By definition. I was just shitposting upthread. I'm not God anon, lol.

>>71974310
xenakis sucks

Petzold

>>71971804
Limiting to 50 for the sake of having a round number seems silly

My list would be:
Palestrina
Monteverdi
Scarlatti
Telemann
Vivaldi
Couperin
Handel
Bach
Rameau
Haydn
Gluck
Weber
Mozart
Mendelssohn
Beethoven
Schubert
Tchaikovsky
Chopin
Verdi
Puccini
Rossini
Donizetti
Bizet
Saint-Saens
Schumann
Brahms
Liszt
Dvorak
Sibelius
Grieg
Berlioz
Bartok
Franck
Smetana
Janacek
Wagner
Hindemith
Bruckner
Mahler
R. Strauss
Debussy
Ravel
Faure
Mussorgsky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Borodin
Rachmaninov
Prokofiev
Shostakovich
Stravinsky
Vaughan Williams
Holst
Elgar
Gershwin

>>71974331
there was literally a post 20 seconds ago
why are you bumping?

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>>71974364
>Holst
He has like 5 good pieces. And that's coming from an avid listener of him

>>71974401
He doesn't have much but just based on how much modern film scoring gets lifted from The Planets alone, I think he's justifiably "important"

I'm a pleb who's only really listened to and played late-baroque and early classical onward.

Which are the essential baroque/renaissance composers?

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>>71974461

>>71971209
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_classical_music_composers_by_era

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>>71973935
>symmetry
Ok.
>translation equivalences
Superfluous.
>direct resultant mathematical phenomena of such punctual correspondences
Literal word salad.
>no mention of function composition
Congrats, you can read the first few sentences of a Wiki article.

Hard Mode:
top 5 composers (any period)?

>>71975103
Bach
Mozart
Beethoven
Brahms
Stravinsky?

I think

>>71975103
Wagner
Schubert
Messiaen
Mahler
Bach

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>>71975103
>Biber
>Zelenka
>Vivaldi
>Marais
>Rameau
Order depends on mood.

>>71974364
>Telemann
Stopped reading there

>>71975103
No real order.
mozzart (underrated)
Schoenberg
Janacek
Bach
Brahms

>>71975349
You stopped to listen to Telemann right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYpUAHpvi0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPdmzLutnjs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr3hmT2AjAk

Who has the best recording of Janacek's piano sonata?

>>71975349
>>71974698
what's wrong with telemann? I don't understand

>>71975259
>>71975403
>>71975327
why no beethoven

>>71975535
He would be in the top 7.

>>71974698
This is a WIP
>tfw had to rescale this shit several times to get it under 4MB
Also remind me to do a Vivaldi chart as well.

>>71975327
no beethoven or bach is why I asked that question. was waiting to see if some nutjob would exclude them. love it.

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>>71975730
Ah fuck here's higher res

>>71975730
>remind me to do a Vivaldi chart as well.
>making a chart of just Il Giardino Armonico performances

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>>71975766
Not quite. I plan on making a chonological chart with different interpretations and list what's special about each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NGtULmNJjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGxP-AtKRB8
Who did it better? (Mozart by a mile desu)

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>>71974908
That's a paper thin bluff mr. "physicist". Try harder next time.

>>71975103
1.Bach
2.Beethoven
3.Wagner
4.Mozart
5.Debussy

>>71975103
J.S Bach
Hildegard
Perotin
Beethoven
Stockhausen

>>71975103
Mozart
Mendelssohn
Mahler
Mocha
Mozzarella

>>71976147
>wagner above
>palestrina, vivaldi, hildegard, mozart

how to spot /pol/ bots instantly
HAHAHA

>>71976482
Speaking of Hildegard, go vote for her in this poll:
http://www.strawpoll.me/1267804

>>71976482
>>71976522
>being a von Bingen waifufag
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stockhausen
disgusting

>>71976147
It's not a bluff. It's fact.
I actually don't give a fuck about what you think about my claims. The point is that your ridiculous and asinine display here only discredits your already stupid opinions.

What is some music that is very dry (in the good sense, that it is warm and comforting, like an old wooden piece of furniture or a home)?

>>71976522
>I avoid great composers because something extraneous to their music offends my sensibilities
How to spot a brain dead philistine instantly.

>>71976937
>wager
>great
???

>>71976818
You have no idea what you're talking about. Not about physics, mathematics or music. Bluster and empty posturing don't really discredit anything.

>>71976522
>hildegard
lmao

>>71976876
beethoven's late string quartets do the job for me

who are the 5 worst composers mine are

1. xenakis
2. bach
3. wagnuh
4. xenakis again (just because he sucks that much)
5. ferneyhough

>>71976876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4uZvhjQNi0

>>71976876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79etYWWA3r4

>>71977064
W E W
E
W

(apart from 3)

Mine are:
Paul McCartney attempting to write classical music
Florence Foster Jenkins
Richard Wagner
Hubert Parry
Philip Glass

>>71977042
His Razumovsky quartets as well as Harp and Serioso are comfy asf

>>71977158
I forgot Clementi. He killed improvisation in classical music.

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>>71977064
1. literally all contemporary composers (they only deserve one spot)
2. Handel
3. Salieri
4. Mozart (overrated)
5. couldn't think of one, maybe von Bingen? idk

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>>71977361

>>71977064
confrimed pleb.

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>tfw starting to enjoy Mahluh

>>71977456
xenakis sucks

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>>71977491
enjoying symphony 1? same here my man.

still mahluh posting though

>>71977491
Mahluh cured my insomia.

>>71977064
1. Philip Glass
POWER GAP
2.Steve Reich
3. La Monte Young
4. Terry Riley
5. von Bingen (waifufags pls go)

>>71976876
Debussy -- Danses Sacrée Et Profane
Messiaen -- L'Ascension
Ives -- The Unanswered Question
Murail -- L'esprit des dunes

>>71977491
My wife's son favorite symphony of his is the 5th.

>>71977518
no

[spoiler] SEVEN [/spoiler]

>>71977537
>Murail -- L'esprit des dunes
fuck off poly

>>71977561
I'm not poly.

>>71977547
Beat that little cryptojew

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Apologize.

>>71977589
Sorry you suck, Mahler-chan

>>71977537
/how the fuck is Messiaen warm?

>>71977661
Have you ever listened to The Ascension? Comfy as fuck. Like an interplanetary voyage.

>>71977783
I'm not saying he's bad but its very AYY-tonal

>>71977604
That's Mahler-dono to you, pleb.

>>71970261

There's a silent one I believe.

You don't quite appreciate how gifted Kreisler was until you try to imitate him. Pretty much all the greatest violinists tried and very rarely came close.

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>>71977831

this general would be 5000x better if all the weebs decided to take the hints and just fuck off

every single one of their posts is always so fucking terrible without exception

it would appear that liking anime and possessing an inkling of intelligence or having anything even remotely worthwhile to contribute to any potential discussions are two entirely exclusive lifestyles

>>71978027
theyre the only ones posting anything at all tho

I don't understand the appeal of Monteverdi

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>>71977830
Ayy-tonal? More ayy-tonal music for anon, courtesy of Xenakis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Txie4lAMk

>>71978086
How much you like Monteverdi depends on how into opera you are. That's where his strength lies.

>>71977863
Kreisler's good friend, Zimbalist (an Auer student like Heifetz and Milstein), is pretty amazing too. Though unfortunately very few recordings of him remain, there is a non-silent video of him playing with Bauer (!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wecNrRUZ1yE

Dat long bow. Dat suave and elegant portamento. I know why Kreisler liked playing with him so much.

>>71978086
I really like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6tJWY2Vaz4
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mD16EVxNOM

>>71978154
xenakis sucks

>>71978169

Yeah, the Auer class was an embarrassment of riches. Nearly any of them would've stomped anyone alive today.

The last violinist of that line was Josef Gingold. Unfortunately his students learned faggotry instead of romanticism.

>Méditations sur le Mystère de la Sainte Trinité
He was secretly a satanist wasn't he?

>>71978169
>>71978369
Do you guys like Menuhin?

>>71978710
Not them. I like David Oistrakh.

>>71978710
I like him fine, even if I like Ferras a bit more as an Enescu student.

Most of Menuhin's best playing is pre-60s.

WHERE'S THE NEW THREAD??

>>71978859
here:
>>71978899
>>71978899
>>71978899

>>71979105
>>71979105
>>71979105
>>71979105
new