How can a band with little to no knowledge on music theory make

>>71506347
Having a vision for the end product and extensive knowledge of production techniques.

>>71506347
>little to no knowledge on music theory
Why do you say that?

With homemade open guitar tunings anything is possible

>>71506347
By understanding how a person with little to no knowledge of music theory thinks and pandering to it.

Just gotta have enough of distortion pedals.

But for real you don't need extensive knowledge of theory if you just have a vision. Loveless is the seminal example of executing your musical vision

>how was music created if music theory didn't exist

>>71506347
I refuse to believe Shields had no knowledge of music theory.

>>71506347
>How can a band with little to no knowledge on music theory make such a good album?
Anyone can make a good album, as long as they have a good sense of melody.

I always laugh at these academic types that think that musicians have had to understand theory to make decent music.

>muh music theory

music isn't a science
music is an art

Paul McCartney did not know theory, Michael Gira did not know theory. Shitloads of Blues and Jazz musicians were musically illiterate as well. Irving Berlin, etc. etc.

>>71506347
just like how people with no knowledge of music theory can have good taste

>>71506881
What I don't get is how people who know theory can make ersatz shit.

>>71506826
>music isn't a science
Sounds are waves moving through the air; it's is quite literally physics.

once you free your mind about a concept of. harmony and music being correct. you can do whatever you want

>>71506911
And it usually ends up sounding like shit

>>71506906
don't be a smartass

>>71506347
limitations create art, all that BS is helpful but not necessary to make good music, if you've got a good ear and taste you are set.

>>71506906
thinking of music in such absolute terms makes me feel that the magic and feeling of it is lost

>>71506966
>>71506940
Also a musical scale is literally a mathematical way to divide an octave. It's very mathematical.

>>71506815
It reminds me of the autism in Atlas Shrugged where every competent good-willed character was a hardcore capitalist.

>>71506984
still, it remains so basic that most people don't even think about it

>>71506347
because this whole album is built around the major scale, which most humans are literally taught in their infancy

>>71506984
>Also a musical scale is literally a mathematical way to divide an octave. It's very mathematical.
>thinking that musically-illiterate musicians don't know this.

Scales go back to Pythagoras.

>>71506966
Its absolutely not lost. You don't need to pick one or the other. A musical scholar that tries his best to understand how people process noise and how to manipulate that down to a science could also be quite the poet.

>>71506984
stop ruining my fun by making it into work

>>71506994
>it remains so basic that most people don't even think about it
Sounds like their problem not understanding something
>>71507007
Judging by the responses here, there are people who don't know this
>>71507031
Have you ever been in a real band before?

It is work.

>>71507010
fine but how does music theory account for the subjectivity of what constitutes "good" music?

>>71507045
yes I have
and yes getting shows and promoting you band is work but the music to me is all fun

>>71507071
Subjectivity will always exist because music is art. But if you have a higher understanding of what's going on in the music you're listening to, there's even more subjective beauty to witness that you didn't have the ability to consider before. Technically virtuous compositions where you can see exactly what the artist is trying to do lends itself to a greater appreciation.

>>71507071
Are you asking about the Wheel of 5ths or staying in key? There's a psychological reason certain chord sequences are reused

>>71506805
>>71506815
This.
After a while, you start to develop an intuitive sense of what sounds good and what doesn't when you will play your instrument.
I don't know what a diminished seventh is or the rules of counterpoint, but I can play alongside songs fine with my guitar as soon as I find the right scale.

>>71507138
I would argue then you have learned Music Theory by observation and practice, rather than learned it formally

>>71507138
drummer who learned by trial and error and playing along to records on headphones here

I resent musicians who feel the need to hold muh theory above everyone's head to justify the money they spent on their college music theory degree to feel superior to the self-taught

>>71507031
Dude, if you ever want to be synth wizard one day, you will need to get into the scientific/mathematical side of music.
But it's the kind of things that makes me like maths actually (even though I kinda suck at it). School curriculums should focus more on real-life stuff like that instead of making us believe that it is only very abstract stuff for STEMlords with a superiority complex.

>>71507319
no desire to be a synthwizard, I'm happy beating my drums

but I agree that schools fucking suck and don't focus on real life application of knowledge

>>71506372
/thread

Some people are just born naturals.
I have heard musicians say that sometimes they will just have a tune in their head.

Im a painter and i understand this, but im more visual, sometimes i will just meditate and get images in my head

>>71506906
Oh shut up nerd

>>71507179
>I would argue then you have learned Music Theory by observation and practice, rather than learned it formally

Virtually everyone that doesn't learn it formally does this.

>>71507305
>I resent musicians who feel the need to hold muh theory above everyone's head to justify the money they spent on their college music theory degree to feel superior to the self-taught
This.

>>71507382
this
I bought a drum set 11 years ago and picked up the sticks and it just clicked for me

I don't know how to explain how I do what I do when people say "ohh Anon you're a good drummer you should teach me!"

>>71507382
>>71507434
I've never learned a cover song all the way through and I've wrote dozens upon dozens of songs.

>>71507466
what do you play friend?

I prefer playing originals but have been in a few cover bands and had little trouble learning the beats note for note

but I'm a drummer so that might not apply to your instrument

it's not good

>>71506934
but you can keep on trying until it sounds good, and it will be more geniune

>>71507305
>>71507363
>>71507434
>>71507507
so you're a drummer?

>>71506911
Hey Giorgio

>>71507524
you're goddamn right I am

postan in between bouts of bangin my drums

fuck I love playing drums

>>71507507
>what do you play friend?
Guitar, bass, drum machines, have made electronic music since I was a kid. Had keyboards since I was a kid but didn't bother learning chords on them, but know the notes.

I've played folk, rock, shoegaze, punk, industrial, country, electronic music, post-rock, black metal, doom metal, drone, darkwave, dreampop, ambient, and have made entire albums of just soundtrack material as well as acoustic albums and rock albums. Done all of my own album art and press for years too, still not signed to a fucking label yet cause I haven't played in a big city or dropped dough on major marketing yet.

>>71507621
Is this a copypasta?

>>71507668
No, I am actually serious. ;_;

>>71507621
>>71507676
don't get discouraged man, it's 2017, everyone downloads songs for free, every band has a page on the internet. the music biz is the hardest its ever been right now

try to make the music for fun while hoping people notice it

if nobody notices at least you had fun right?

getting noticed and making a career of original music is needle in a haystack these days. but that doesn't mean just give up

>>71507544
How do I become a drummer? I have roommates.

>>71507522
>but you can keep on trying
Then it ceases to be genuine

>>71507621
>I've played folk, rock, shoegaze, punk, industrial, country, electronic music, post-rock, black metal, doom metal, drone, darkwave, dreampop, ambient, and have made entire albums of just soundtrack material as well as acoustic albums and rock albums.
How many of these you made with a band, or was it all by yourself?

>>71507800
doesn't have the same concept, i mean geniune as in it comes from your inspiration and not trying to copy something

>>71506906
so painting is just arranging chemical products on a canvas

>>71507742
>the music biz is the hardest its ever been right now
>getting noticed and making a career of original music is needle in a haystack these days. but that doesn't mean just give up

It really is, but I'm not really in this for money. I made music because it's all I know how to do in order to cope with life in general.

The thing is though, if you don't tour it's hard. I've had trouble finding shows where I live because most of the gigs here are pay to play, and you pretty much have to throw some money into a pit (PR) in order to get your stuff pitched somewhere. It's not even like it was a few years ago when you could just viral easily.

>>71507822
>How many of these you made with a band, or was it all by yourself?
Literally all by me, I can never find reliable bandmates, because I literally only know 1 or 2 people irl other than myself that make music, best I can hope for is having shit to borrow from other musicians.

At least I learned a good deal about production/mixing.

>>71507790
well, if you're living in an apartment building and don't have a space to practice loud, you are gonna have to get an electronic drum kit.

get Roland. don't waste money on other brands. Roland is the God Tier brand of edrums. they have affordable lower end kits that are still good quality.

with an ekit you can practice quietly with headphones. but eventually you are going to want to get acoustic drums, once you can find a place to play loudly. acoustic drums are FUCKING LOUD

but the feel and sound of acoustic (real) drums is so much better that you have to get them eventually.

personally I started on acoustic drums in mom and dads basement and then got an ekit to practice on when I moved into a small apartment. but if your situation at starting drums is an apartment you'll probably have to start with electric.

>>71506906

8.5 Best New Bait

>>71507830
>i mean geniune as in it comes from your inspiration and not trying to copy something
You are copying your inspiration? That's copying.
>>71507832
That is correct
>>71507893
>Literally all by me
Well there's your problem
>>71507908
>what is physics of sound

>>71506826
This might just be the worst post ever on 4chan

>>71508013
>being this butthurt that his precious music theory degree didn't translate into a job

>>71508035
>Music education isn't a job

>>71507953
>Well there's your problem
Being a NEET is my problem.

>>71508159
Well you seem to want to work in genres that are pretty much based around group dynamics.

You maybe thought you played all those genres, but you didn't really. And especially not successfully.

>>71508181
I do fine with multi-track recording, playing live is a different story.

Basically rock music is tough because it requires a full band, or at least a drum machine, or a drummer. You absolutely have to use drums with rock songs, you can't hack it with an acoustic guitar.

>>71508235
How long have you been doing this? Do you release everything you record?

>>71507305
Lmao, I learned a fair amount of theory and I learned it all from the internet. Don't need some college degree for understanding the language of music.

>>71508262
>How long have you been doing this?
Almost 10 years.
>>71508262
>Do you release everything you record?
I scrap most of my demos but I've only been officially releasing stuff within the past 2 years or so, I've been insanely productive in the past year.

I just got decent mics and recording/mixing equipment for the first time in my life, so my current stuff actually has decent recording quality and doesn't sound like 1930s archived folk recordings or black metal demos for once.

>>71508332
30's archived folk is underrated

>>71508332
>I just got decent mics
Like what?

Music theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.

>>71508348
Actual mics, condenser mics, and a dynamic mic. Multi-track recording too. I used to use a handheld recorder for a long time, and before that an MP3 player and a tape recorder.

>>71508397
>Actual mics, condenser mics, and a dynamic mic
What mics?
>Multi-track recording too.
DAW or analog?

>>71506347
Beginner's luck.

>>71508425
>What mics?
Sennheiser e835
Shure PG81 XLR

Not that good, but definitely better than built-in mics.

>>71508425
>DAW or analog?
Both.

>>71506991
that's real life though

>>71506347
Did the man who invented music theory know music theory?

>>71506815
>I always laugh at these academic types that think that musicians have had to understand theory to make decent music.
It's usually bait.

i took acid, and now i understand what music is

i think a lot of other great artists did too

File: 1484093197365.jpg (32KB, 706x480px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 706x480px

ITT: people bitter to find out that spending years learning theory doesn't make them special and plenty of people can compose beautifully without it

>>71508725
>plenty of people can compose beautifully without it
Like who?

>>71508725
t. didn't even read the thread

>>71506826
poetry is art yet you need extensive knowledge about how language works. or rather, the more you know about language the better you can play around with it and make better poetry.

i'm not saying you can't make good music with little music theory, you most definitly can, but the value from the music then doesn't come from how complex it is or how well you understand to make good melodies or something, it comes from having a new and unique approch to music for example. and mbv is just that, something unique.

>>71508741
well it depends on your definition of theory knowledge. obviously there are certain things you need to understand, but if you understand it intuitively or grasped it yourself by practicing or playing with other musicians that's still way different from being taught by the book even if you're using the same concepts. just knowing what sounds good is not the same as knowing the math behind it. so that's way too many musicians to just rattle off, and not even just in rock, plenty of jazz musicians are like that too.

>>71508758
yeah i might have gone overboard
most of those kinds of posts are bait anyway

Drummer and I took classes on music in high school and college; keyboardist literally cannot tell if a song is in 4/4 or not, but he comes up with the most unique and cohesive riffs for our songs. It happens.

>>71507621
Are you Trent Reznor?

>>71509802
>Are you Trent Reznor?
Trent had motherfucking Alan Moulder/Flood helping him with mixing a lot of his material, not to mention all of the other musicians on board.

Early NIN is great though, I'm definitely considering getting the same drum machine that was used on Pretty Hate Machine and running it through every motherfucking effect I have for shits and giggles.

>>71509848
You should really just design your own. Doesn't take long if you have a decent selection of samples and know what you're going for. It's so worth it.

>>71509886
>You should really just design your own.
I have Renoise, I pretty much can, and have, I just have shit drum samples. I was actually going to rent drums, mic them, record the samples and just use those for that. I tend to hate generic/sample packs.

It would certainly save me a lot of money.

>>71508492
Shure has the best mics

>>71509886
>>71509924
Oh and btw I want to buy an Access Virus synth since that was both used by NIN and also by Velvet Acid Christ which is another industrial project that I like.

Though I'm not as interested in the synths used as I am as to which drum machine samples Bryan used during the 90s.

>>71510004
>Shure has the best mics
I could have bought a Shure hypercardioid dynamic mic the last time I was out shopping, it was a really good mic.

Actually Shure mics aren't even as good as the condenser mic pair I could currently get, but I'd rather spend the money on something else.

>>71508943
Ooops didn't see a list of names there. Try again.

>>71506347
Thread went way off topic, so I'll comment on Loveless:

Obsessive artist spends ridiculous amounts of time and money getting the album just right. Completely new and totally irrational recording techniques. Unhealthy volume levels, permanently damages his hearing. Alienates the label, the studio engineers and the rest of the band in the process, becomes a recluse and can't follow the thing up for almost 20 fucking years. This is the Apocalypse Now of music.
Tldr
Put enough effort in and amazing things are possible,