How did punk get associated with "fuck the rules?"

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The "fuck the rules" association was part of the marketing. There's a reason the really hardcore guys generally didn't refer to themselves as "punk"

>>71335819
Crass weren't one of the first British punk bands

>>71335819
>Being this wrong

Either way, punk is completely and utterly dead now.

>>71336033
Wow great rebuttal

Conservatives are the new punk deal with it xD

>>71335819
>The bands that inspired it were the New York Dolls, who inverted glam rock by dressing up like New York tranny hookers
This was pretty in tune with the glam rock style of the time though.

>Suicide, who hated rock conventions and decided to replicate rockabilly with just a synthesizer, while the vocalist shrieked about suicide and violence.
They hated rock convention so much that they played rock n roll but with a synth? Again, these guys were the exception, not the norm, and a kind of exception that can be found in any genre of music not just exclusive to punk.

>The early songwriters like Richard Hell, Patti Smith, and Jim Carroll knew the Beat poets and wanted to write about poverty and drug addiction.
Not really breaking the rules here. Beat generation was 50s stuff.

>One of the first British bands was Crass, which was formed by an ex-hippie utopian anarchist to promote activism and art.
They exist in a very particular subset of punk called anarcho punk, and their weird radio/tape experiments were also the exception, not the norm.

>You're right that some of it sounds conventional
A lot more of it sounds conventional. Ramones, Sex Pistols, The Clash are all the three largest bands and they flourished in the scene doing literally rock n roll revival but slightly rawer and slightly faster. Sure Ramones started messing around with cool arrangements later, Johnny Rotten went from Sex Pistols to Public Image Ltd, and The Clash started genre mixing, but that's not their lasting legacy to the genre.


>industrial
Not even sure why this is here since early industrial is electronic, musique concrete, avant garde, and krautrock influenced not punk.

>>71336069
Well they're definitely more "punk" than the type of folks who associate with punk now yes

>>71336033
Three chord punk rock is dead, punk will never die

>>71336093
>>71336097
It's normal to be "punk", it's not fucking punk at all. It's all faggots who spend too much time on social media but wear the appropriate clothing... means nothing.

>punk is as big as it's ever been
Fucking delusional

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>>71336095
Nothing says anti establishment like supporting reactionary knee jerk corporate Christian straight white american capitalist normalcy

>>71336223
>t. "I'm like, so punk, dude! I even have the punk rock app on my iPhone"

>>71336248
Well they certainly embody the ideals of punk more than some feminist tranny limp wristed faggot who went to private school trying to ban the word "him" from dictionaries
See above

Punk is dead and people like you killed it

>>71336290
epic dude! You're really fighting the good fight against those sjws. Do you want some reddit karma? I think you really triggered them with your masculinity. Based Sam Hyde stumps le cucks!

It's not like punk was ever leftist at all, no I've never heard of Jello Biafra or Darby Crash, nope those people don't exist...real punk is...Green Day

pol can go

>>71336290
>feminist
Runaways, riot grrl, etc. All existed in the 70's. Keep arguing you illiterate /pol/ faggot, you can't name a single punk band

>>71336290
>>71335721
GG Allin would've kicked your ass. The people who whine about political correctness are always fucking nerds who submit to Chad

>>71336342
But I'm not American, I never said if I support Trump or not, and I don't care for "alt-right" figures and all the other buzzwords you mentioned.

You keep on being punk though, boy! Them converse and that haircut make you the ultimate punk guy! You're so punk!
>"Hey, take a picture this ones for my instagram! Punk lifestyle dude"

>>71336361
>/pol/
Eh?
Seriously is that all you faggots do when someone tells you that punk isn't wearing converse and posting an Anarchy a on your social media profile? You've got nothing, chump.
Punk is dead and people like you killed it.

>>71336397
Lmao sure thing with the projection there mate

>>71336195
>industrial literally grew out of punk.
No it didn't. Throbbing Gristle already had a record (although bootlegged) out by the time the Sex Pistols were forming and a year before all the big Euro punk bands formed. Not to mention that the industrial bands weren't even part of the London scene, they were from Northern England. So very little connection there.

>The art part of punk has always been around.
Same with every other genre of music. Avant prog has always been around, too for example. Same with experimental rock, etc. As a so called "rule breaking genre", punk didn't do it any more than they did.

>Crass wasn't part of the anarcho scene originally
Only helps make the "they are the exception" thing more apparent then, don't it?

>In the 60s the sexual liberation beats like Ginsberg became acceptable, but transgressive Beats like Burroughs and Gyson were considered extreme and underground.
Cool but by the late 60s they were already considering making a movie version of Naked Lunch with Mick fucking Jagger in it.

>Your idea about punk's legacy is stupid.
Got a little triggered?

>Everything from goth to industrial to crust is part of punk's legacy
Not really. Some of industrial influence went into goth, but industrial has always been more electronic than punk. For every post-punk industrial group, there's a ton more power electronics, EBM, death industrial, etc. out there.

Goth had its start in post-punk (musically), but became its own thing entirely, and has since broken into different areas of music/culture completely unrelated to punk.

>Everything "alternative" is part of punk's legacy.
The concept of being "alternative" has existed before and after punk with areas that haven't been influenced from punk at all. With this logic you probably think hip hop, metal, free jazz or even goddamn funk carioca are some punk, too despite note being influenced at all initially from the punk genre/culture.

>>71336342
>It's not like punk was ever leftist at all
It might have been, but it's not anymore

>>71336428
I'm not arguing that punk is somehow not dead, it's just always been leftist and anti establishment. Punk has been dead since the late 80's. It got watered down by corporations into pop punk like 20 years ago. This isn't a new discovery.

>>71335721
...do you know what DIY culture is?

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>>71336340
>gutter folk punk

>>71335721
Your thinking only of the sex pistols..

>>71336469
>it's just always been leftist and anti establishment
[citation needed]

Are you seriously still that upset that Trump won?
Conservatives are the new punk because it's the popular accepted opinion to be a politically correct feminist fascist faggot -- pretty much everything is against conservatism except for Trump being elected.

It's the "norm" to be """"punk"""", well to dress like it anyway, despite acting like a fascist and banning things you don't like or things that offend you.

My grandma is more punk than you

>>71336340
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYIqBG1v8BY
Fuck these losers.

>>71336340
>>71336551
lmao

PUNK ROCK DUDE CHECK ME BEING PUNK WHILE COVERING THIS HIP HOP POP SONG

>BEING PUNK IS ABOUT LOOKING PUNK. GET THE PUNK LOOK NOW, FOLKS.

>>71336433
>Got a little triggered?
not the other guy, an you're largely right with this post, but fuck off this this overused meme non-argument.

>>71336581
None of those wastrels in that street band are the kind of godawful tragic cases you're talking about though.

>>71336627
>anon jokingly responds to a non-argument bit with a non-argument
>takes it seriously without paying attention to the rest of the post
whoosh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOMv1CmiXoc
>punk will never be this edgy again
;-;

>>71336654
was that a link to the beastiality thread?

>>71336549
>Conservatives are the new punk

U fukkin wot. Have you listened to a punk record? Dead Kennedys was left as fuck. Bad Brains was banned in D.C. Black Flag got so destructive that cops staked out SST.

In more modern times, Jeff Rosenstock sang about being broke, police abuse and gentrification in WORRY. Taxpayers sang about the same shit.

Soak your fucking head.

>>71338127
>t. butthurt limp-wristed liberal
times change faggot
>yfw realise that the "punk" you're thinking of is literally all privately educated upper middle class folks who benefited from nepotism
as i said, times change.

conservatives are the new punk now

>>71338257
>>t. butthurt limp-wristed liberal
Good job assuming I got limp wrists, you cum bucket.

>>yfw realise that the "punk" you're thinking of is literally all privately educated upper middle class folks who benefited from nepotism

I literally just described musicians who sing about being broke and are being forced out of their cities by the very people you describe. Fuck, Fugazi's "Cashout" was about being forced out by rich developers, and that was 2001.

Contain =/= Punk.

>>71338343
*contrain

>>71336290
>Punk is dead and people like you killed it
>Implying punk was something worth saving to begin with

>>71338343
Face it faggot... you're not punk and never will be.
You're part of the fascist leftist retard group think that believe wearing converse and dyeing their hair makes them punk rock.

>>71338383
Well it was. I believe certain ideals of "punk" were spot on before they were misconstrued by media and bandwagoners.

>>71338400
>Well it was. I believe certain ideals of "punk" were spot on before they were misconstrued by media and bandwagoners.
A few good ideas came out of punk; the idea of non-conformity and post punk as a genre of music. Many bands along with record company executives were just trying to cash in on a growing trend when punk music became popular. And young people interpreted the idea of non-conformity as nihilism and anarchy. And what became of that? Drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Because, surely vomiting all over yourself and not being able to function as a human being without the use of synthetic drugs is so punk. I'm still thankful for post punk bands though, because they did something with the music, rather than returning in back to its infancy.

>>71338400
>wearing converse and dying hair.

I have never dyed my hair, nor do I wear Converse. Punk comes from inside, your heart and head. I don't need to shave the sides of my head and wear studs to fit in, because punks are someone who don't need a uniform. The music is an expression of what they feel and go through. Everything from the political frustration of Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables, to the PMA of Bad Brains, to the modern nervousness of The Dream is Over.

Of course, idiots like you hear three cords and screaming. You don't listen. You think Punk is some contrain thing and that going against the grain of the time is punk? No. It's a fundamental understanding that freedom to do what you want is something that can't be hindered. Heart over Matter, PMA, the core belief has many names, but remains the same.

Conservatism has no place in this. Neither do you.

>>71338536
SURE THING YOU VEGAN FANNY
I BET YOU'VE GOT THE PUNK ROCK APP ON YOUR IPHONE

When did punk go from "cool rebels" to praising neoliberalism and Obama and establishment identity politics? That's not fucking punk it's fucking gay,.

Punk was always about "fuck the rules?" but the rules change and so does punk. Punk's main idea was D.I.Y, carving out your own path no matter how bad or crazy it may be. That is why ridiculous hair, safety pin piercings, torn clothes, binbag fashion etc was all part of the punk look. As soon as that became a uniform it started not being punk. Punk music was all about not going to music school, barely playing three chords and yelling your non-mainstream, confrontational views. As soon as musicians started to get good and put out more polished product it ceased to be punk and drifted in to post-punk.

Now punk is a brand and every little prick is trying to co-opt it for their own mainstream political stance. It's not inherently left or right and it should embody the creative D.I.Y ideals, not dress in a 30 year old uniform.

Reminder US Hardcore Punk > UK Posers Punk

>>71339631
>YANKS
>PUNK
I DON'T THINK SO

>>71336097
>Three chord punk rock is dead
never

>>71336290
Fuck off milo

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>>71335721
This is punk

>>71336095
>>71336124
>>71336290
>>71336428
>>71336549
>I'm a part of what some people call the "alt-right" and it feels punk as fuck. It feels like an actual counter culture, or rebellion against the PC culture that dominates American colleges.

>>71336290
>reddit

>>71339301
I actually had eggs and turkey bacon for breakfast.

Plus, I don't own an iPhone.

You want to try again?

>>71341331
You would download it if you did tho

>>71340455
While that quote is deepest cringe, it's not wrong.

No one was a closeted Hilary supporter. But there were many closeted Trump supporters, from the average Joe all the way to Tom Brady. It is a stigma to be conservative in this day and age, hence, it feels more rebellious since the status quo is leftist.

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My daddy was punk as fuck one time and so was my grandpa. (Great grandpa was a hippy and I was told but some of my relations that my great great grand daddy was a beatnik!)

>>71341632
Think you are mixing up being punk and being gay. The gays were closeted not the punks.

>>71341572
No, I wouldn't have either an iPhone or the app. I'm happy enough with Bandcamp and Phonograph.

How about creating a substantial argument of what punk is, rather than projecting what you think is a suitable strawman?

>>71341851
How about you stop pretending you fucking poser
You're about as punk as Katy Perry

>>71341733
People are punks because they are proud to be different you mong. They go AGAINST the status quo, LOUDLY.

You could say the alt-right is doing the same thing.

When the media and social media are both demonizing you for not being progressive enough, then logic dictates that refusing to do so, LOUDLY, is a punk mentality whether it agrees with your politics or not.

Threads like this make me pine for the days of Nationalist Skinheads.

Left-wingers are fucking scum.

>>71341906
And how am I a poser? I'm dying to know.

>>71342632
My pet goldfish embodies the ideals and spirit of punk more than you do, you fucking maggot.

Away with you, shoo doggy!

>>71341632
The left that the people who actually know and listen to punk in this thread is referring to Marxism you dense daft alt-right idiot, They are not talking about idiot liberals so all the new fascistic babies in this thread needs to shut up and get that right first. I seriously do not understand how you guys are so butt hurt over 90% of actual punk being far leftist (Marxist).

Grow up, and if you’re that hell bent on being punk just listen to the small percentage of Nazi punk that panders to degenerate fucks like yourself and just don’t bother listening to the actual thing that didn’t promote being overly macho and wearing stupid shit because you’ll just end up infuriating yourself more then you are

>>71336248
Conservatism and reactionarism are not the same.

>>71342709
>over 90% of actual punk being far leftist (Marxist).
[citation needed]

>>71342734
are you fucking kidding me ? how the hell can you be this dense

why don’t you name the "majority" that isnt commies?

>>71342442
Well I wasn't the one talking about closeted alt-right fags, you mong.

Hiding out on 4chan and bullying the supposed nu-males doesn't sound like a punk movement to me. Especially with all the paranoid talk of demonization, it really just makes the alt-right sound like a bunch of cowardly worthless fucks who only creation and contribution is photoshopping pepe memes. But I suppose if you type LOUDLY now and then then you can almost begin to feel like you are a punk standing out from the crowd. The crowd that makes up 50% of the population that was willing to vote. Good job being radical counter cultural and achieving something.

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>>71342753
hahhahahaahahhahaa
>pic related
Post something to backup for claim or don't post at all faggot

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Everyone is equal there is no such thing as a master race, Being religious in 2017 just shows how backwards and stupid you are.

>>71342821
>Everyone is equal
I know this is bait but there are people that genuinely believe this

>>71342836
>kek there's still people who don't believe it

Punk is anti-establishment

The liberals run the establishment

What is the argument, again?

>>71342848
So has evolution stopped then? or not?

Nice bait/10

>>71342821
Wasn't being straight-edge a big thing inside the punk movement?

>>71342854
wrong on both

>>71342894
Nice argument, kid. You really showed him.

>>71342811
Propagandhi, Anti-Flag, The Clash, Dead Kennedys, Subhumans, The Unseen, The Pinkerton Thugs, Leftover Crack, Choking Victim, No-Cash, Star Fucking Hipsters, The Broadways, Strike Anywhere, Crass, Flux of Pink Indians, A//Political, Disrupt, DooM, Conflict, Reagan Youth, Intifada, Evil Empire, Officer Down, INDK, The Public Serpents, Fifteen, Angelic Upstarts, Red London, Hudson Falcons, The Oppressed, The Infested, Atrocity Solution, Beng Beng Cocktail, Ramshackle Glory, Wingnut Dishwashers Union, Johnny Hobo and The Freight Trains, Ghost Mice, Acoustic Front of Resistence, Aus-Rotten, Behind Enemy Lines, MDC, Severed Heads of State, Class War Kids, Good Riddance,The Fall,Gang of Four, Bikini kill,Sleaford Mods, Lovechild, Alternative TV, Bad Brains, No Trend, Flippers, Minutemen, Hot Snakes, Fugazi, Hot Snakes, My dead is dad, A Frames, Huskur Du, James Chance and The Contortionist, BAZOOKA, Catastrophe Bizarre, The Raincoats, Pere Ubu, World Domination Enterprises, Au Pairs, Savage Republic, LIZZARD, The Nation of Ulysses, Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, Antagonist Fist, Cro-Mag

That just few now pray to Jesus and go to bed kid

>>71342677
Oh, you're just trolling now. Have one last (You).

>>71342936
Post a source, any at all, showing proof that 90 percent of punk bands are left wing. Good luck with that.

Posting random bands isn't proving your point, son. Do you know how statistics work?

>>71342950
It wasn't bait. You're a genuine faggot.

>>71342854
The problem is that these dense fucks think its liberal and not Marxist

This is why I like hardcore, same music but with none of this cuckold Marxist circlejerk

>>71342962
>>71342962
Pick any band from the list and listen to the lyrics and you’ll find out really fast that they are all Marxists

This just goes to show that you know nothing about punk music and that you don’t listen to it at all, you just want a cool label to go along with you’re alt-fascist tag. Now please go back to /pol/ and leave the music to the /mu/tans kid.

>>71342975
Finally one of you alt-right idiots get something right.

You guys should properly name you’re threads and make punk threads if you don’t want to attract Marxists

thread name suggestions.
Nazi Hardcore Punk
Alt-right jackass punk

I hope you enjoy the little amount of nazi punk bands you have out there

>>71343040
Post source of don't post at all.

The reason you haven't posted a source? Because you cant. You were bullshitting and just expected people to listen to you. That's how retarded you are.

I've never even browsed /pol/ but you fags always resort to the same "go back to pol!!!" whenever you're getting blown the fuck out

>ALL PUNK BANDS ARE LEFTIST BECUASE I'M LEFTIST AND I SAID SO
Lol, try harder next time man.

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>>71343090
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaahahahhahahaha

>>71343092
The source is their lyrics and how blatantly open they are about it and the countless anti fascist lines they use, either hardcore committed to being a troll or I am just arguing with a 12 year old that somehow has not come across any of the biggest names in punk music and don’t know what they are so openly about.

Hope Jesus forgives you for being a racist cunt you backwards ass dense retard.

>>71343040
>I HATE THE GOVERNMENT, OPPRESSION AND STABLISHMENT
>LETS ADVOCATE IN OUR SONG A IDEOLOGY WHERE IT DESCRIBE THAT SOCIETY SHOULD GO TO A PLACE WHERE EVERYTHING IS DIVIDED BY STATE BUREAUCRATS BEFORE REACHING UTOPIA AND KILLING EVERYONE THAT GETS IN OUR WAY.


Either you don't know what marxism is, or punks were mostly retarded, I think the term you are trying touse here is "anarchist" of tge socialist kind that came from people like Bakunin, but Marx mocked Bakunin, and Bakunin hated Marx's guts. They are two different ideologies, they are just reaching on to the same goal and are far-left.

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Guys, stop responding to him. He's just a spillover from /pol/ that's trying to get (You)s.

Just bash your head to a My War and move the fuck on.

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>>71343207
>>71343207
>Thinks Bolshevism is Marxism
>Does not know the difference between the two
>Does not realize the most relevant and wide spread form of Anarchism is Anarcho communism
>Throws a bitch fit again because he saw the word "communism' and relates it to Bolshevism

Now I know for sure you’re just a white trash dumb ass posting out of you’re trailer park,Ever hears of famous Anarchist like Alexander Beckman ,Emma Goldmen and the lot they Wrote entire godamn books about this.

I legit feel bad for how uneducated you are here read some of these and come back.

>>71343267
>>Does not realize the most relevant and wide spread form of Anarchism is Anarcho communism

Too bad Anarchism that works in the American sound is Mutualism and more Individualistic Anarchism.

I don't disagree with you, but after hearing Rollins and a lot of other American Punk Rock musicians, there is a shocking amount of Anarcho-Individualism. It makes sense considering how individualistic Americans truly are.

But there are some Commies who play, that's no secret.

>>71343154
>their
You said 90 percent
I'm still waiting on that source faggot
See>>71343107
That's Sid Vicious by the way.

>Hope Jesus forgives you for being a racist cunt you backwards ass dense retard.
Hahaha, you literally have nothing do you?
All you can do is post ad hominem and scream muh rayciss.

>>71343243
Samefag

>>71343267
>Now I know for sure you’re just a white trash dumb ass posting out of you’re trailer par
Implying he was me and stop projecting
You're just mad that you're not a punk, you're a square sucking on the teet of the establishment

Conservatives are the new punk.
Leftists are becoming increasingly fascistic.
Stay mad

>>71343092
>posts actual sources
>completely ignored

I'm not even sure if you are trolling, or just that stupid and stubborn to not recognize reliable information when it's in front of you

>>71343390
Post sources then. You've posting no source, you fucking pleb.
All you did was list a bunch of band names as if that's in any way relevant to proving that 90 percent of punk is leftist (as you claimed)

You can't post the source because you're full of shit and mad that you're a square, as I said.

Keep trying to get the word "him" banned bro! That'll show em how punk you are!

>>71336397
>people who whine
>fucking nerds who submit to Chad

Trump is the biggest fucking Chad, seems legit

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>>71343090
t. triggered lefty Tumblr punx

pic related, you

>>71338536
>>71339301
>>71341331
>>71341572
>>71341851
>>71341906
>>71342632
>>71342677
>>71342950

>how to spot underage minors

>>71343390
It's not worth it lad. He has a right to be fucking retarded, so it's just cool to walk away.

>>71343483
He didn't post nay sources you limp wristed cunt
fuck off

>>71343267
Retard. I've read all of Das Kapjtal and the Manifesto you dumb shit. You don't know shit about scientific socialism, all bolshevism was was a adaptation of the capitalist economy and society -> revolution -> socialist economy and society -> Communism framework progress to one that would fit Imperial Russia.
And I fucking mention Anarcho communism, that was the kind of Anarchy Bakunin advocated, however Orthodox Marxism amd Anarcho communism are two different ideologies, dumb fuck.

>>71343823
Also, I am not even the other guy you are arguing, just pointing it out that punks were either Kropotkin/Bakunin style Anarcho communists instead of straight down marxists, and if they were Marxist then they would be hypocritical dumbshits.

Also in your chart there is a bunch of post-modern post-structuralist Frankfurt School inspired jerk offs that makes any orthodox marxist, marxist-leninists and even Trotskyist fucking cringe by taking away the main focus of class struggle.

>>71340419
I will forever adore this comic

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>>71342908
>You really showed him.
>him
stop pretending it's not you

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>>71343243
Took long enough

>>71342936
>CRASS
>left-wing

They were many things (and for the sake of argument, you can say they were "left-leaning"), but leftists, they were not.

"White Punks on Hope" attests to this.

Also, this:
http://www.cvltnation.com/the-heavy-mental-interview-with-penny-rimbaud/

>>71338127
Bad Brains hated gay people. Rollins used to be pretty centrist- or at least before he started pandering to his audience. Jeff Rosenstock is not punk he's somewhere on the spectrum indie rock

>>71342936
Some of those bands are good but the majority are fucking trash. Btw you're also wrong in your assumption of some of throes bands political alignments

>>71342782
>all these assumptions
It's like you still live in 2011 or something

No one likes you anymore. Thought police are no longer vogue, friend.

>>71342936
And, on the flipside, we've got...

Ovaltinees, Skrewdriver, Skullhead, British Standard, Peter & the Wolf (UK), Hobnail, Sudden Impact, Brutal Attack, Close Shave, Combat 84, Condemned 84, Squadron, Razors Edge, Lionheart, Grade One, Brutal Combat, Légion 88, Evil Skins, Chauves Pourris, Bunker 84

I could go on.

>>71342936
>>71344460
And, to continue...

Battle Zone, Bulldog Breed, Indecent Exposure, London Branch, No Remorse, Violent Storm, Celtic Warrior, Empire, Freikorps, Kahlkopf, Landser, Noie Werte, Saccara, Stahlgewitter, Störkraft, Sturmtrupp, División 250, Guarda de Ferro, Nouvelle Croisade, Ultime Assaut, Les Vilains, Aryan, Arresting Officers, Max Resist, New Glory, No Alibi, Elite Terror, Doc Marten, Day of the Sword, Rival, Bound For Glory, Platoon 14, Fight For Freedom, White Noise, Fortress, Open Season

>>71345895
Still not posted a source for the "90 percent of punk bands are leftwing" claim...
What a fucking gimp

>>71345917
Do you have any reading comprehension?

These are all FAR-RIGHT bands, you mongoloid! I'm supporting you.

>>71339743
>oi oi oi

I shut it off every time.

>>71346050
>clap clap clap
i never listened to it to start with