Why is the genre being so "celebrated" lately as t

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So hip hop general?
Hip hop general.

Here's some god damn charts I made that I'm proud of. Took me a long time to perfect them.

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00s.

The 2010s chart isn't updated yet but I'll post it soon.

>>71168085
>Why is the genre being so "celebrated" lately

White guilt.

>>71168339
White guilt Lmao, hey if you guys could check out my music on soundcloud and share with friends and family that would be well appreciated!

https://soundcloud.com/teejayraps/sets/deeper-than-money

>>71168339

I'd agree if you were referring to TPAB. It made me sick to see people praising the shit out of it when GKMC was far better.

>>71168257

>No Vanilla Ice Mind blowin'
>He doesn't want to roll up the hootie mack

shit list desu

>>71169945
I'll worry about Hootie and the Blowfish later.

Almost done updating the 10s chart. It's taking forever and topsters keeps crashing.

>>71168085
White guilt + people are just trying to pretend that recorded music hasn't stagnated generally

>>71170044
This plus the fact that it is easy as hell to make. Hip hop also is a newer genre by comparison so it has more options for experimentation. But no one has been able to bring anything to the table since Kanye brought maximalist production at the beginning of the decade. But, of course, most rappers stopped doing that.

White guilt.

What is the most experimental hip-hop released in the last decade or so? When I ask I usually get shit like Atrocity Exhibition, which is still a pretty basic album structurally.

>>71168085
>all this autism
it's popular because it's accessible and integrates seamlessly with pop culture. that's it

it's only called "innovative" by people who really aren't particularly into music (i.e. the average top 40 listener and the people selling it to them). trying to challenge that description on technical grounds just makes you look autistic

Aesop Rock, Twista, immortal technique... Dude, there is a lot of good rap.

I'm listening to Twista right now. Adrenergic Rush is such a good album.

>>71170225
>Immortal Technique
This is shit that I listened to in my edgy high school wigger phase. Grow up, dude.

>>71168085
Modern Hip Hop is pretty fucking gay
Old School shit is were its at

>>71170115
>This plus the fact that it is easy as hell to make.

I mean, this was praised as one of the best songs of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8m9zhNAgKs

Looped pitchshifted beat with a microbeat accent riding on top throughout the whole fuckin' song. And lyrically, it's the same shit rappers have been rapping about for decades. The Club, women, money.

But it's so innovative for some reason.

>>71170253
Me too. I still listen. I have a very wide, diverse taste.

Aesop Rock is irrefutably amazing

>>71170222
>it's only called "innovative" by people who really aren't particularly into music

You haven't read all the Rock is Dead hit pieces and the like from music journalists? And in all those articles, they point to hip hop where the "interesting and innovative" music is happening.

Rock might be dead (I don't think so), but hip hop sure as hell isn't picking up the innovation baton. It's the same shit as it was 30 years ago. And as the guy alluded to, >>71170261 it was better. Paul's Boutique is loaded with more samples and variations than Trap album number 300.

>>71170278
Yeah it really bothers me when people praise something for what it's not. Like, I love Weezer, but if anyone ever started calling them musically innovative, I'd think they're retarded. I'll give rae sremmurd this, that main chorus melody is nice.

>>71170327
>and the people selling it to them
I'm sure you intentionally missed this part

it's just people either funded by the music industry or "journalists" cynically capitalising on hip hop's popularity by patting its audience on the back for listening to it. nothing to get upset about, it's quite inconsequential

Hip-hop is a very limited genre in terms of musicality. There is no reason to be musically smart in this genre, songs are vocally driven with a main focus on the lyrics. All you need to know is how to make simple rhythms and melodies then rinse and repeat for each song. This is why Hip-hop is the lowest form of music. As a art form it's fine, but to praise it as a amazing feat of music is laughable.

>>71170374
>t's just people either funded by the music industry or "journalists" cynically capitalising on hip hop's popularity by patting its audience on the back for listening to it. nothing to get upset about, it's quite inconsequential

I can buy that.

>>71170225
>Adrenergic Rush
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO SPELL ADRENALINE

>>71170389
Fucking this. I'm a musician, and I just can't do it. Hip-Hop bores me to tears.

>>71170431
listen to dj screw
his work was pretty amazing and I'm not talking about his chopped and screwed stuff either, guy was really good

>>71170278
>that track
>niggers jumping around rapping about nigger shit like usual
>praised as one of the best songs of the year
>jump over to the metal scene
>crackers like Hunter Hunt-Hendrix are writing entire essays and personal mythologies in order to explain the metaphysical basis for their aesthetic

>>71170389

Indeed. That's when smug journos write shit like this

>In part, hip-hop has been dominating since the ‘90s because, unlike rock ‘n’ roll, it can sound like absolutely anything. It was born in a culture of repurposing as a matter of necessity, and it’s not tethered to the instruments or traditions of any genre that came before.

it's laughably stupid.

Hip-Hop is "bound" by its rules like any other genre. If there's no rhythmic foundation to rhyme over or to dance/groove to (in the case of instrumental hip-hop, it's not really hip-hop.

But if you are going to expand hip-hop's boundaries so it gets to absorb genres like Trip Hop, Drum and Bass, Downtempo, Futurejazz, and Plunderphonics, then rock music should be afforded that same luxury, which these writers don't do for their sake of their "rock doesn't innovate anymore" argument.

>>71170493
>muh metal
dude, shut the fuck up

>>71170445
I live in Houston. I'm so sick of hearing about DJ Screw. I don't care.

The 10s chart is taking gosh darn forever to update. Also I'm having uploading problems.

>>71170520
Metal is far better than hip-hop on every level, and you're probably a pleb, but Liturgy fucking sucks and HHH is an autist, so the guy you're replying to is also probably a pleb.

>>71170520
I hate 98% of metal but it's still better than niggers getting paid and promoted to rap about nigger shit.

>>71170557
>>71170583
I mean cmon, you really can't be serious
sure I really hate trap rap, but metal isn't better especially with those cringe edgy lyrics and usually muddy production. there is great rap(usually old school) and good metal but neither are better than each other

>>71170510
There's a lot of shitty, hyperbolic writing about hip hop, but this isn't saying hip hop doesn't follow rules, its just saying it steals a set of rules from another genre on a track by track basis, giving it wider appeal imo

>>71170631
If you were to compare metal acts that were rated as highly as the nigger shit (which you can't, because nigger music is dominating Western culture currently), you would find metal that blows rap out of the water both conceptually and musically.

>>71170631
>cringe edgy lyrics
Shut the fuck up, I hate it that people feel the need to call anything dark edgy. You literally are the edgiest of edgelords when you say this shit.

>>71170631
>cringe edgy lyrics
Maybe if you only listen to radio trash like Disturbed, or really generic thrash/death metal or something.

>muddy production
Pleb spotted. A lot of that is intentional, and creates atmosphere. It's part of the charm. Besides, there's a lot of extremely well-produced metal out there.

This is going to sound really fucking cheesy, but Hip-Hop feels like a product. A lot of metal tends to have a spiritual aspect that most other genres aside from maybe shoegaze and dark ambient can't really compete with. If you take something like atmospheric black metal, it sounds like magic. You can feel the energy in it.

>>71170672
>>71170723
uh oh, I think I triggered the metalfags

>>71170723
This, but it's not even that it's dark. Some ambient metal and post-metal is fucking beautiful and uplifting.

>>71170795
Good response

>>71170671
>its just saying it steals a set of rules from another genre on a track by track basis, giving it wider appeal imo

I agree with that. I just hate the implication that hip hop is somehow more "formless" than rock because of sampling.

Rock was very simplistic blues based music in the 50's, and just ten years later, came to incorporate everything from Free and Modal Jazz (Byrds, MC5, Zappa) to Musique Concrete (Beatles) to Electronics (Krautrock) to Noise (The Who, Velvet Underground) to Symphonic structure (Progressive Rock) to Drone (Can). .

Rock still adds to its palette today, which is why I find the boundary setting by these idiot journalists annoying.

>>71168085
This my friend is why you should always avoid and ignore the trendies of mainstream music journalism. No white guilt. Just trendy fuckbois. If it was the 70s they would be championing stadium rock.

>>71170806
yeah, and there is hip hop thays not all about being a ghetto nigger

>>71170912
don't embarrass yourself kiddo

Metal artists are more versatile. End of discussion.

Burzum and Wolves In The Throne Room released ambient electronic albums.
Alcest became a shoegaze band.
Ulver dabbled in electronic music, folk, and even film scores.
Darkthrone dabbled in Crust Punk.

You will never see a rapper do a complete 180 and release a fully ambient electronic album, or a Norwegian folk album.

When they try to be different, or make "rock" music, it's always cringey shit like Speeding Bullet or that one Lil Wayne album that had guitars.

>>71170854
well it makes you sound hip to say
Like I said:trendy fuckboys

>>71170942
you are the one embarrassing yourself, metalbaby

>>71170955
you can also look at agalloch mixing industrial,modern orchestral,neofolk,blues,country,post rock,and 1970s prog seemlessly with multiple vocal styles and the more unique use of insturmentation on there albums. A favorite of mine when I get high is def The Mantle.

>>71170955
metal sounds extremely limited when you compare it to electronic music

though metal needs electronic instruments to help sound varied

>>71170967
ok dear

Hip-hop is just EDM with apes chanting over it.
When you look up a hip-hop song on YouTube, one of the first suggestions is always "[song] instrumental".

>>71171043
except edm was a product of hip hop

>>71170993
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VDCmQN8Cag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-x6qqNy0mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBLbrJxGtro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7PLhhb0Mls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FlR6xQPZdo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJgi6fZkrjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6vO9F2Lmvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIFyz5ocNnI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvWQQaCpte4

>>71170672
>>71171043
>>71170912
>>71170795
can we calm the fuck down on the racism and homophobia please?

>>71170993
dude electronics are just like any over insturment. Its all in the context that you use them. A lot you can't do just on electronics alone. You can look at early Neofolk and see how much depth the acoustic insturmentation adds to get a feel for that.

>>71171117
Triggered?

>>71171086
i hope you don't actually think this is good


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Yinw2zjVm8
this was all done on very basic hardware by one 20 something in his bedroom. though this is kinda unfair since nothing has surpassed Experience yet

also pardon the shit spelling

>>71171117
Did you forget where you are?

>>71171148
Not the guy you're replying to, but this is pretty cool.
Also, I would have picked better examples for metal.

>>71171148
well that was needlessly drawn out and boring
desu you should have chosen an example that sounded less like retro 70s shit. I'm into industrial. I've heard enough shit like this. It's not gonna impress me. The germans were doing shit like this all the way back in the 70s.

Hip hop is overrated but fuck metalheads are so annoying, they think they have the best taste and that their music is the only good one, while bands just keep doing the same and having the same boring sound with cringy lyrics for years.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUv8GxrqXPk

>If you do/don't listen to X then you're not TRVE
>They tend to be liberals and open minded pussies but not with music.
>Look at my band shirt I'm so special
>If it has clean vocals then is not metal

I fucking love metal almost all sub-genres but I'll never say I'm a metalhead because they're annoying edgy scum that think they're special and others must enjoy their genre while they hate others, so toxic they just hear the genre and deem the song or album as trash without give it a listen.
>Some hip hop that metalheads might enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNrMKoqrt9U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL8IYeErHHY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOIFMBRUchM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqtobIpZt68

>>71171180
you can't get better then Drudkh my dude.
Very talented shit. Also Down,Nargaroth,and Electric wizard are all classic bands.

>>71171187
ooohh, I seem to have struck a nerve.
you jealous?
should I mention that this was made in 1992?
you get some masterminds behind an album with top notch equipment but get raped by a young bedroom producer

>>71171180
Not a lot of bands emote the way they do.

>>71170181
yeezus
clpping
blackie
death grips

>>71171222
no not really
Have you listened to Clock DVA? This isn't as unique as you seem to think it is. Idk maybe it gets better but its so fucking slow that its really kinda a drain to pay attention too.

>>71168085
Are you the rockist from that earlier thread?

Face it anon, while hip hop samples everything from the most trivial song snippets, to jazz epics, to its own songs, to prog rock from the 70s, to turkish rock from the 70s, to swing from the 60s, etc etc etc it's sonic palette is much greater than rock.

It is forward thinking.

While Chance the rapper samples gospel music and actually arranges choirs (and I'm not a fan of his either) rock is stuck in a dumb caveman land of recycled pentatonic riffs.

>>71171222
this also just kinda sounds like sped up Kraftwerk to me.

>>71171254
>its so fucking slow
doesn't surprise me that metal babies have ADD

listen to Jilted and fat of the land if you want electronic albums that really pushed the norm of music

>>71171274
>pentatonic
Have you listened to Animals as Leaders?
seems like your points of reference for rock music end with classic rock friendo.

>>71171291
You can have a fast song that is long dumbass
you can also change speed change tempo put a few riffs in there and keep it interesting. shit that failed at.

>>71171291
Most of The Drudkh songs are about 8 minutes but they change enough to keep the viewers attention. They've got the formula down pat.

>>71168257
>>71168310
you didnt make those, herbieanon did

>>71171338
that's drudkh tho
and the prodigy don't have a lot of long songs until you get to FOTL

>>71171274

And Hip Hop is stuck in the same stone aged land of recycled 4/4 beats.

"Oh wow, [insert hack producer here] layered a pitch-shifted and time warped Coltrane sample over (yet another) 808 bassline and sampled Bongo Band, Winstons, Led Zeppelin, Billy Squier, James Brown drum break! How innovative.

Meanwhile, rock musicians actually play those Coltrane progressions and drum syncopations, and they don't sound like shit because they didn't have their tonality raped by a DAW.

And those lyrics!

"Trunk got birdies, trunk got birdies
12 pull a nigga over, trunk got birdies (what the fuck)
Trunk got birdies, trunk got birdies
Trunk got birdies, trunk got birdies
12 pull a nigga over, trunk got birdies"

You're a soundcloud hack who can't play an instrument, right?

the problem with electronic music is that it's usually defined by using only one instrument. It has a lot of the same limits something like acoustic folk has.

>>71171357
I am Herbieanon.
I've been working on this last chart for 4 god damn hours.
I can't upload images for some reason though.

>>71171372
4/4 works well desu
Idk why you nerds need to shit on 4/4
Love to see you try and pull off a format like desert rock or stoner rock without 4/4

>>71171274
>Muh sampling

Then by that standard, Dance music should eclipse anything Hip-hop/Rap related ever.

Hip Hop is fine and electronic music is fine and rock is fine but I'd say electronic music is the larger innovator at this point more then anything. That being said all perfectly fine formats. I'm not big on hip hop but I respect what it can do artistically.

>>71171394
ah you just werent under ur trip, i apologize man, i was just trynna look out for u :)

>>71171308

Funny thing is that a pentatonic riff is still exceedingly more complex than anything you'll find in a hip hop song.

Hip Hop's entire musical foundation is 4/4. And it still is.

And when it needs syncopation, it samples rock drummers. Lol.

>>71171379
how can it only be defined by one instrument when synthesizers can mimick any instruments or sound?

>>71171451
because they can't do it well enough for it not to be immediately apparent that it's a synth

>>71171451
duh
best electronic music sounds synthetic. mimicry is a shitty way to go. Use a synth like a synth.

>>71171308
Seems like RELEVANT rock music is my reference point friendo

Im an animals fan and they're just overly technical djenty prog. Tosin is a master at guitar but it's not exactly music that is relevant right now.

>>71171372
>Meanwhile rock musicians since play Coltrane

lmao since when? Rock musicians as a whole are knowingly less skilled than your average jazz musician.

I actually am a multi-instrumentalist who plays guitar and produces beats, among other things.

I like how you willfully ignore the lyrics of something like Lupe Fiasco's mural, which is full of clever punchlines and metaphors on a level you probably wouldn't even understand without many repeated listens without the help of rapgenius.

>>71171395
Don't listen to him, technicality seems to take precedence to him over songwriting and relevance culturally. He wants a band that alternates between 7/4, 9/8, and 15/4 needlessly just to show how good they are at their instruments, while failing to write a good pop song.

>>71171406
Ummm what?

>>71171451
>synthesizers can mimick any instruments or sound?

They can't.

You'll never get the sound of a live drum kit played in the basement of BC Studios with a DAW, Drum Machine, or Synth,

Drum Machines sound like utter trash compared to a real kit. Not that drum machines don't fit the aesthetic of certain kinds of music, but let's not pretend you're going to press a button and out comes Art Blakey's sound

DAWs and Computers aren't fairy dust. This is exactly why sampling is used so much. Synths can't create those sounds. Furthermore, once you manipulate that sample (i.e. a cello), then the tonality of it is lost. You want a real cello sound in your music? Hire a cellist and record them in a real space.

>>71170955
That's literally what tonedeff did

>>71171516
whats relevant even mean in this digital age though? How much of a pop audiance do you really give a shit about/

>>71171462
>>71171479
have you even looked at modern roland or yamaha music work stations?

they are pretty spot on and it would be hard to tell the difference between a real guitar and one of them

>>71168085
>Why is the genre being so "celebrated" lately as the most innovative thing in music since humans first banged a stick on a rock?
Because it is popular black music.
The fact of the matter is that black people invented almost all forms of popular American music, and in the past musical academia hasn't given them due recognition so now they're trying to be forward-thinking by examining what's currently popular with black people.

>Dem beats!
It's true that trap beats and boom bap beats as well could get really boring and repetitive. They aren't meant to be experimental generally, it's pop music.

>>Dem Lyrics!
Nice cherrypicking, there are tons of better bars by modern rappers.
Not to mention it's not all about lyrical content, it's about delivery and the voice as a rhythmic and melodic instrument. Lil Yachty is trash but just look at Migos rapping a fucking children's book and making it sound good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX7JAHddY84

>>Dem banging basslines
Yeah this is kind of true.

>>It's not bound by rules, and can combine music from multiple genres to make a unique and interesting collage!
All those producers you named ARE hip hop producers except maybe Kid Koala.

>>71171516
also your right he's probably a prog nerd

>>71171516
>Seems like RELEVANT rock music is my reference point friendo

Moving the goal posts. Lol.

>>71171518
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fbUWOo16jq0
lol

Anyone else having problems uploading images right now or is it just on my end?

I tried on mobile but it keeps saying 'upload failed'>

>>71171560
yup i have it as well, trying to upload a post rock flow chart in another thread but it wont work

>>71171553
thats not the same thing though
thats just a drum thats electronic
you might as well just use a normal drum

>>71171553
what a waste of resources

>>71171524
relevant means relevant.

relevant means wiz khalifa getting hundreds of millions of views on his big singles, kids dressing like kanye, people emulating the slang of hip hop, etc etc

You know what the youth is excited about? EDM and Hip hop. You'll have a couple of special snowflakes that want "rock to come back maaaan!" but you'll find that most of their tastes are pretty standard and not exactly reinventing the wheel. They can't accept that no one is going to beat Black Sabbath.

And no, one shitty retro-fetishizing rock band being popular is not the same as rock as a whole being culturally relevant. The relevant bands of today are 99 percent bands that have been around for at least a decade.

>>71171571
its all done through midi, retard.
the same thing DAWs and synths use

>>71171516
>He wants a band that alternates between 7/4, 9/8, and 15/4 needlessly

Oh yeah, tempo and time changes aren't sonically interesting at all.

You just dig sampling because it's easy. You're like a teenaged girl collage artist cutting out and pasting images from magazines and then calling yourself an "artist" while sharing your work on tumblr.

>>71171592
Idk I know plenty of young people who listen to metal. I've met a small handful of kids who like electronic music and most of them are tech geeks that I met in special education. I guess theres also the underground bdsm obsessed uber edgy industrial scene that I'm quite fond of but I'm not sure that's reaching the radio anytime soon. Electronic music mostly falls into small niece genres from what I can tell.

>>71171550
Yeah, you're right, I must have been talking about the rock music literally no one except prog nerds/stuck in emo kid phase people/brutal metal heads/whatever subgenre culture you can come up with. I was speaking about that shit that never gets played on the radio, isnt mentioned at the grammies, doesnt get a lot of plays on youtube, no one talks about in real life. THAT was the rock I was talking about. lol

>>71171592
Also I'm not sure If anyone in there right mind would call Drudkh retro fetishizing. Traditionalist artistically maybe but Idk if theres a decade you can pin mixing black metal,70s prog,traditional ukranian folk music,van halen riffage,and neofolk too.

>>71171627
who fucking cares
there are a lot of good music that doesn't get played on the radio

>>71171625
Well you must be from a shit state or some backwards ass town that is stuck a decade in the past.

>>71171624
You just dig playing power chords because they're easy. You're like a teenaged punk kid artist playing his guitar and saying things about politics then calling yourself an "artist" while sharing your work on fuckbucket

See how stupid your logic is?

So what if I like sampling? So what if it is easy? Btw, I guarantee you couldn't make a good sampled beat on even the level of the now primitive college dropout era Kanye. No fucking way. And someone like Just Blaze? You have 0 chance. The point is, there is skill involved, there is creativity, and collage is a totally legitimate form of art.

Even if it's easy, something being difficult to do=/=something being good.

>>71171592
also pretty sure electric wizard already beat black sabbath and bands like ISIS and Neurosis were pretty far out on a limb doing there own things.

>>71168085
OP I'm not entering what is surely a cancer filled thread but hip hop is terrible and you're right

>>71171553

Nope. If it's a full digital chain, the final sound still has to be relayed through a transducer (speaker) of some kind.

Through a compressed youtube video, it can sound "authentic," but not in a studio or in the real, as your transducer won't generate the kind of reverb relative to the space as a real drum kit would. The transducer will color the sound, always.

This is why classical concerts aren't mic'd up to a PA.

Ok apparantely I can't upload images right now for some stupid reason.

But, whatever, I'm gonna share my Hip Hop charts anyway because it took me 4 days to get them right.

http://collage.topsters.net?id=564633648b76224b2a746773988787f1
http://collage.topsters.net?id=0edc2d87732398c13e2a8a851728ff06
http://collage.topsters.net?id=8138619e75f45fffa9bd73ba772cbd43

Mazel Tov.

>>71171699
wow man, it's like you think you know what you are talking about

>>71171648
And we're talking about cultural relevance, which rock no longer has. That's why "we fucking care".

There is a lot of good music that isn't on the radio that's coming out now, but not a lot of it is from the rock world. Any time I'm recommended a rock band it's some trite boring indie shitter stuff. One of rocks most relevant figures right now is Mac Demarco, a man who makes chill stoner tunes that are perpetually obsessed with the past and have no anger, danger, or risk.

>>71171675
you mean like cambridge mass?

>>71171676
>Electric wizard beat black sabbath

besides how fucking painfully wrong this is, you're just arguing to argue. Black Sabbath destroys any of their clones, for obvious reasons.

>>71171722
we only started talking about cultural relevance once you desperately switched topics once you couldn't prove the genre was dead and electronic music was our new lord and savior.

>>71171747
Honestly always though of EW as a EYEHATEGOD clone but whatever.
The they came first argument seems fucking stupid. I honestly never got into Sabbath nearly as much.

>>71171750
Rock is dead you fucking idiot. Let it die peacefully.

I just explained why, CULTURAL RELEVANCE.

Is Jazz dead? Yes, people still make it but it's not culturally relevant.

Is punk dead? YEP. Just people trying to capture something from the past and failing.

>Desperately switched topics

Bitch that's been my topic. Radio rock music is PAINFULLY DUMB and it's not changing. If you want to go into arguments about the million subgenres no one gives a fuck about then be my guest. Yes, easycore sucks, yes, pop punk sucks, yes, djent sucks for the most part, yes, metalcore sucks, yes, indie rock sucks (name someone more relevant internet wise than Mac and Tame Impala).

The two BIG artists in the internet rock world are Tame Impala and Mac Demarco, and they are just rehashing very old, very worn down ideas.

The RADIO plays things such as Theory of a Deadman, A7X, and other trash. ROCK IS DEAD. ACCEPT IT.

>>71171836
Idk the Boston Hardcore scene seems to be doing pretty well and Black Metal is always finding some way of reinventing itself.Sounds like you spent to much time on the pepe trump meme site listening to the skrillexs kiddo.

>>71171836
Iceage was getting a fuckton of attention for a while though. The stuff at the very top has always been shit. That's just how pop works. It's probably true for hip hop too.

>>71171855
>Boston hardcore

I could give a fuck less about hardcore music. You're not going to be better than the originals if you're not doing something new, and SURPRISE!!! They aren't. Just kids doing squat poses and being ironic on twitter while wearing dad hats and all black. Hip hop is so relevant that rock artists actively copy every trend it puts forth in terms of slang and clothing style.

>Black metal

Yeah, that shit isn't for a niche audience lol

It's like talking to a wall. Nice projection about pepe memes though.

>>71171908
Feel like the last time HC genuinely copied hip hop it was like 1990 something but ok

>>71171895
>Iceage

Some more derivative, soulless indie trite. Most of their vids can't even break a mil on youtube lmao.

>>71171675
>and collage is a totally legitimate form of art.

>>71171675
>collage is a totally legitimate form of art.

And takes much less skill.

Here's an easy test. As long as you access to the same cutouts as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_what_is_it_that_makes_today's_homes_so_different,_so_appealing%3F,

you could recreate said "artistic" masterpiece that would look almost identical, provided you can use a ruler competently.

On the other hand, I could give you the same paint mixtures, brushes, and canvas as this, and you wouldn't have a chance in hell in painting it (maybe you're a great painter, but let's assume you have no skill whatsoever).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pz-Z9LQltzs/UZKN1BW0snI/AAAAAAAAfKI/O2Jg9THT31M/s1600/7977930028_e1af1bc78c_b.jpg

There's nothing extraordinary about sample based music. I concede there are a few "geniuses" working in hip hop and electronic music production, but there's a billion bedroom DJs for a reason. It's totally unexceptional.

>>71171928
>That amnesia about how hardcore kids saying "it's lit!" and wearing dad hats and using fire emojis

Okay friend.

>>71171937
Iceage was pretty creative and interesting in how it used modern symphonic and deep underground industrial elements and how they mixed elements of post punk with Oi! but if you choose to believe that fine.

>>71171941
And there is/was a billion kids playing guitar and being totally unexceptional as well. Your point? Bell curves? Okay?

>>71171941
yet Experienc still has some of the best sampling in music and is still light years ahead in terms of production of anything today, and that album came out over 25 years ago

>>71171954
Musically irrelevant.

>>71171836
>I just explained why, CULTURAL RELEVANCE.

Fair enough. Lowest common denominator and all that, so it's understandable why Shit-Hop reigns. It's catchy, accessible, and "inspirational" to bedroom DJs like yourself due to how easy it is to make.

But let's not pretend it's "innovative." You're obviously in the honeymoon phase with hip hop and think everything the genre and its producers shit out is original gold, since you probably haven't heard that much hip hop nor electronic music in general.

Lemme guess? You're a former die hard rock fan who grew bored with the genre because of overexposure, so when you "switched" to hip hop, it was like a shiny new toy entering your ears. I get that. We all get burned out on sameness.

Just don't sit here and pretend hip hop producers sampling gospel, jazz, and movie quotes is some "innovative" technique. Nor is the way said producer combines them.

You can limitlessly combine riffs, basslines, lyrics, and percussion in a straight ahead rock band just like you can samples.

"But all these samples you can layer!"

Rock bands sample too. I swear you're posting straight from 1960 with some of the criticisms you're coming up with towards rock.

End of the day, you're just probably bored of the guitar sound. That's fine. Just like many of us don't see anything exceptional in yet another 808 anchored hip-hop song.

The same argument applies both ways.

>>71171986
Yet illustrates my point of cultural relevance of hip hop and the lack of relevance from rock.

No one wants to be a rock star now, they want to be rappers.

Note: NOT LITERALLY EVERYONE you fucking autistic fucks. Just in general.

>>71168085
>IF HIP HOP LYRIKS AR SO GRAT WHY CAN I FIND A SONG THAT'S DUM???
woah, how can hip hop "lyricists"ever recover?

>>71171966

If you think at any point in history that more kids were noodling on a guitar than they are in a DAW right now, I don't know what to tell you.

A big reason for hip-hop's emergence and why it had to sample was because those kids couldn't afford instruments, have money for lessons, etc, etc.

It's a totally unexceptional way of making music. Why do you think actual hand-painting painting still sell for millions of dollars while collage art died in the 60's?

No one is impressed by cutting and pasting, whether it be in music or art.

>>71172048
>it's not innovative becuz i don liek it

>>71171836
the number 6 most popular song of 2015 was a straight up power pop song. guitars, bass, drums and synths. had riffs and a solo. could not have been more of a rock song and it was number fucking 6. Of the top 10 of that year 5 of the songs prominently feature guitars. While they aren't normally what I'd call rock, Twenty One Pilots were number 5 last year with a rap rock song. Of the top 10 of last year 6 feature a guitar. If your argument is that rock doesn't have cultural relevance, so it's dead you're wrong. If the argument is that rock is dead because it isn't innovating then hip hop and electronic music have both been dead since the 90s.

>>71168085
>Shadow, Kid Koala, RJD2, the Avalanches
That's all hip-hop though.

>>71172115
lol these are some grade a mental gymnastics to pretend that rock still matters

>>71170181
tonedeff - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDuaqJgik_c
death grips - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvxkEvM81tU
eyedea - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZMRUyF8Q6c
clppng - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COSPHLq8y98

Every time I try to make a thread it says "Upload Failed".

y?

>>71172125
Was it the guitar thing? Yeah that might have been a stretch. But do you at least see were I'm coming from? I'm only using the last two years and the top 10 to be as accurate to what is relevant. I also omitted that Maroon 5 song from 2015 to be fair.

>>71172048
You love rambling on about how easy it is. I implore you to remake any of the beats these so-called bedroom "DJs" (they're producers lol) are making.

I'm not in a honeymoon phase. I'm a lifelong hip hop fan and don't like most of it. I hate Kanye's newest albums, I hate Bones, I hate Suicideboys, I hate FBZ, I don't like Earl's new music, I don't like Action Bronson's music, I think Madvillainy is overrated, I don't like Drake, I think TPAB was overrated, I could go on and on like this.

>Since you probably haven't heard that much hip-hop

okay you've triggered me. I've listened to TONS of hip-hop. I've listened to Run-DMC, Public Enemy, NWA, Whodini, Kool G Rap, KRS-One, Goodie Mob, Slick Rick, DJ Quik, Geto Boys, Kurupt, Spice-1, and plenty more.

Like I said, lifelong hip hop fan. I've been listening to it since I was a toddler.

You're doing a ton of projecting right now so you seem like a jaded former hip hop fan.

>Rock bands sample too

Okay, name some contemporary ones that are sampling. And no, Passion Pit doesn't count.

>You can limitlessly combine yada yada

except you are way more limited in the sense of 3 instruments, whereas a sample can have horns, a choir, bird sounds, ambient synths, strings, and a shit ton of other things (BASICALLY ANYTHING THAT's EVER BEEN RECORDED)

I'm not bored of the guitar sound, I'm bored of the bands and their lack of any testosterone whatsoever. King Krule is an example of someone who not only mixes genres, but can revisit past sounds and create something new out of it.

>>71171981

All of 90's electronic music is light years ahead of electronic music today.

Analog synths, smarter curation of samples because you had to dig for them in record stores (Paul's Boutique and Endtroducing are still more impressive sampling feats than anything done today), becoming something of musicologist, high investment cost (Technics 1200s 1K, Roland 303 400.00, 808 400.00, Akai MPC 500.00, and then Cubase, a Computer, etc). The person who would invest this kind of money in a setup would sure as hell know what the fuck they're doing and be serious about, unlike modern soundcloud hacks who pirated fruity loops. One of the reasons we have vaporwave today. That garbage wouldn't pass muster in the 90's.

>>71172168
that and the fact that just because rock and roll isn't a cultural force anymore doesnt mean it's just been completely erased from pop culture, so charting rock songs/songs with rock elements doesnt really make the argument that rock is still culturally relevant

>>71172176
>Okay, name some contemporary ones that are sampling.
Not the same guy, but I just wanted to say the sampling is very common in post rock. Almost a requirement. Bands like Godspeed and Swans.

>>71172081
>If you think this thing that is not possible to prove anyway blah blah I'm right

just shut the fuck up. Anecdote, I've know far more guitar players than people who used DAWs in my life. And that's in this era. People tried to pick up guitar all the time, especially back in the day.

>No one is impressed by cutting and pasting, whether it be in music

I like how your taste applies to everyone now, when there's people like J Dilla who sampled and have legions of fans and a legacy that continues on. Fuck, you're a thick cunt.

>>71172188
>All of 90's electronic music is light years ahead of electronic music today.
what a retarded blanket statement to make
>Analog synths
lol and you're right out of the gate with shit reasoning to back it up
>smarter curation of samples because you had to dig for them in record stores
more access to samples=worse sample based music... sounds logical lol
>becoming something of musicologist
and once again... it was apparently easier to become versed in lots of genres of music in the days before the internet apparently? why do you say things that dont make sense?
>The person who would invest this kind of money in a setup would sure as hell know what the fuck they're doing and be serious about
and to cap it all off, money=good/serious

great post 10/10

>>71172115
>Twenty One Pilots
>Rock

TOP is rock like Halsey is "indie"

And those are all disco revival shits Im guaranteeing it.

If not what was this power pop song?

>>71172218
>I've know far more guitar players than people who used DAWs in my life
you seem like an idiot and i probably wouldnt try to talk to you about music production in real life either

>>71172205
>Very common
>here are two bands only people on /mu/ and hipsters care about
>lol only got 2 by the way and they've both been around for decades

>>71172204
I'm not really getting were you're coming from with the rock is dead thing then dude. Sorry. Can you explain it a little more? Rock songs still chart well, there are still new rock releases that don't make on the charts but I would still call culturally significant, and people are still experimenting within the genre and it is getting accepted.

>>71172245
I seem like an idiot because I knew more guitar players than daw users?

You have an interesting standard for intelligence there, oh great one.

Who the fuck said anything about music production? I wouldnt want to talk to you about music production, especially if you're the faggot obsessed with technicality. Even if not, your music is probably trash anyway.

>>71172262
>being this dense and autistic

say it with me /mu/

R O C K I S D E A D
O
C
K
I
S
D
E
A
D

I feel like rock music just shifted away (or maybe grew out of) the whole rockstar narrative more then anything but ok.

>>71172267
>I seem like an idiot because I knew more guitar players than daw users?
yes, it was based on literally only that partof your post. you certainly proved me wrong by figuring that out lol.
>Who the fuck said anything about music production?
that's what you do in a daw, guy who is apparently not an idiot

>>71172240
The power pop song was Shut Up and Dance. Even the band admitted they were just remaking Jessie's Girl.
>>71172247
I just named two because you if this is the same guy) asked for examples of sampling in rock so i just stated an entire genre that does it and named two of it's more popular artists. i think godspeed is popular enough to count. they were mentioned in pineapple express (or some other seth rogen movie) and i saw people at my high school wearing their shirts.

>>71172289
Talking about people using daws and talking about music production are two completely different things though?

that's like me saying
>People play guitar
>Well you sound dumm and I dont wanna talk about what its like to play guitars with you anyway!!!

Are you fucking retarded?

People have been saying "rock is dead" since like the 70s and yet it hasn't happened. Its just sort of a social marker for conservatives who are more on the trendy end of things. The death of rock is not a real event anon.

>>71172176
>Okay, name some contemporary ones that are sampling. And no, Passion Pit doesn't count.

Ariel Pink, Trent Reznor, Radiohead, etc.

>except you are way more limited in the sense of 3 instruments, whereas a sample can have horns, a choir, bird sounds, ambient synths, strings, and a shit ton of other things (BASICALLY ANYTHING THAT's EVER BEEN RECORDED)

Rock bands can sample all of that, too. You're also falling for the more=better idea. When I listen to a Jazz trio, whether modern or classic, composed of a trumpeter, bassist, and drummer, I want those 3 instruments to dominate the content. I don't want fuckin' bird and movie quote samples mixed in for the sake of "novelty."

Yeah, lemme throw in a funk sample into this string quartet.

Rock has often thrown in the kitchen sink, but why is that always a "good thing?" And let's not act like Hip Hop flirts with that kind of maximalism very often. 4/4, sampled accent here and there, 808 bassline. It's generally as myopic in its production as the bass, guitar, drums, vocals dynamic in rock. And it's probably by choice. Often minimalism is better.

And with the way you're "triggered," it's obvious you're a hip hop fan first. Fair enough. You like it more, so you'll naturally find more interesting work there. Many on here like rock or Jazz or classical more and will thus find more interesting work there.

>>71172304
Eh fair enough but you have to admit that song is a bloated corpse of what rock was

yes and I think I said contemporary? Maybe I used that word wrong, how about NEWER bands?

>>71172327
I'm not "falling for" anything. I'm pointing out exactly why hip-hop is capable of being so much more diverse than rock. and Guess what? Rock DOESN'T do that. That's my point.

Ariel Pink is a retro-fetishizer, Trent and Radiohead have been in the game for decades. They're part of the old guard, they're like the classic rock. They'll always have an audience.

I'm not a hip hop fan first. I've been listening to rock just as long, but as I grew I soon found no one was doing anything I wanted to hear in rock.

You dumbasses are just comparing very different and very overarching formats desu. Not a fair comparison at all. What rock offers isn't what jazz or country or rnb or whatever offer. Idk why we need to compare. Electronic music is fundamentally its own thing that rock isn't so just let it be that. Things don't have to replace each other. You can like rock and still like classical. Hip hop is just a sub form of rnb anyway.

>>71172337
I kinda liked the song, but that's cause i have a soft side for cheesy power pop

I know what you meant. Swans and Godspeed released a new album last year and the year before respectively. Deafheaven's Sunbather was big enough with the p4k crowd that I'd call it popular.

Plenty of new metal shit is doing its own thing. If it sounds old to you its probably just because metal in of itself is associated with the 1980s. I don't think Drudkh or Botanist sound anything like a band from 40 years ago nor do I think they try too. Same goes for acts like Agalloch and Blut Aus Nord and Peste Noire and all sorts of others. Plenty of new shit going on in metal.

The Eastern European influences and greater emotional range a band like Drudkh brings are cool new things for metal as well.

Peste Noire are nazi scum tho but music wise they added a lot new to the table.

>>71172239
>more access to samples=worse sample based music... sounds logical lol

Yeah. Were talking about guys who used to fly to Brazil for rare bossa nova samples, shit you'll never be able to find on your little private trackers. Guys with record collections spanning into the 10,000s, going back to obscure 78s and test pressings..

The more access=more use logic is flawed. People have access to loads and loads of information and still fall for fake news on facebook.

>and once again... it was apparently easier to become versed in lots of genres of music in the days before the internet apparently? why do you say things that dont make sense?

It was. You gain a lot more knowledge of digging in record stores than you do clicking around on spotify and talking about Grimes on sites such as this. This is why Endtroducing and Since I Left You are still the sampled/plunderphonics music benchmarks.

And yes, cost filters out the dilettantes who aren't serious and untalented. It's why the bulk of soundcloud's material from these Bedroom DJs is bargain basement ambient.

lmao all these edgy white kids shitting themselves at the mention of rap

>>71172358
>Ariel Pink is a retro-fetishizer,

He combines his samples into a collage, while layering his own playing over it.

And what's "retro" about his music? What? Because it sounds vaguely similar to something else in the past? So does Shit-Hop. Once again, 4/4 time, 808 bassline, some samples, rinse repeat.

This is why this debate is pointless. You'll just handwave any innovation away in modern rock as "already been done" while continuing to prop up gospel and funk samples in the latest hip hop song as some kind of groundbreaking thing.

I also disagree about hip=hop being capable of more diversity. If hip-hop strays from a coherent rhythmic foundation (i.e. 4/4), it ain't hip-hop any more. In rock, we've seen complete atonality (Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music to start) to odd time signatures (prog rock) to the compete absence of any and all percussion with the sole emphasis on subtly changing textures to even 30 hour long songs (Bull in Heaven).

Hip-Hop is limited by it needing to have a "beat." I don't care how many samples you drench over your basic 4/4 beat and 808 line.

So when do you guys think hip hop will die down and what will happen to the music industry once it does?

>>71168085
I hate it, I fucking hate it and I can't stand it, I love jazz, blues, disco, funk, gospel, soul, ragtime, rhythm and blues, reggea, dub and so on, but I fucking hate this retarded music and the culture surround it.

>>71172503
Complete atonality is in hip hop though?
lmao Clipping?

Odd time signatures have been done, clouddead

you keep repeating 808 bass line like you know what you're talking about. Live bass is often integrated, especially in a live setting. As well as synth basses, etc etc.

Are you seriously asking what's retro about Ariel Pink? His music sounds like it's from the past on purpose, definition of retro.

>>71172532
>lmao Clipping?

Example?

Sure odd time signatures have been done, but it 's not the norm.

The amount of rock musicians and bands that have experimented with odd time signatures and such dwarfs that of hip hop, and to make the comparison fair, we can even start at 1980.

>Are you seriously asking what's retro about Ariel Pink? His music sounds like it's from the past on purpose, definition of retro.

So does synthwave, but synthwave still does not sound like Tangerine Dream. So does Vaporwave. But you're not going to find anything that sounds exactly like it on a 1980s chart.

Pink does what any off the shelf hip hop producers do. Samples, collages, layers his instrumentation and vocals on top of it and creates something "new." Because he explores the past as an aesthetic choice doesn't make his music any less modern.

>>71172517
Lmao senpai turn ya brain off and get lit senpai sip this surp and listen to none of then try at all

>>71171080
that's not true though. musicians have been dabbling in electronics since their minds were blown listening to Varese. not all genres started with african influence.

>>71171836
>Radio rock music is PAINFULLY DUMB and it's not changing.
that's true with most pop desu

>>71172278
n o t
o
t

a n
n

a r g u m e n t
r
g
u
m
r
n
t

Hip-Hop is terrible musically. I like a good lyricist, though, but the music that usually accompanies him is largely crap.

>muh samples! muh diversity

The problem with hip-hop in this case is that winds up being a poor jack-of-all-trades and master of none. When I hear a cool sample in a hip-hop song, it just makes me want to seek out the original song, which is often times better than the song that sampled it.

An analogy:

Steak (Jazz)

Lobster (Soul)

Prime Rib (Rock).

Hip-Hop basically blends everything up into a nonsensical meat slurry that might have an original taste but not a very good one. And when drinking this slurry, you can kind of taste hints of steak, rib, and lobster, but not enough to really satisfy you. You'd just rather eat a well cooked steak.

"When the great economic collapse happens, it's going to happen right across the board. But, I don't think rock and roll will go first. I mean, the market at the moment in rock and roll is expanding a phenomenal rate. People are constantly saying it: "Rock's dying." You know? Every six months someone says it, with enormous conviction! It's not gonna happen!"
-Roger Waters, Interview with Adrian Maben (1972)

People have been saying the same thing since God-knows-when, and though it isn't a driving force in the music world, rock is still being played on the radio at a fairly consistent rate.

>>71172618
I heard that Fragile by Tech N9ne has an unusual time signature? I wouldn't know because I know shit-all about music.

ITT: people who know absolutely nothing about hip hop other than surface level and lyrical miracle bullshit

>>71172817
terrible analogy, desu

>>71172618
>odd time signatures
>odd time signatures
>oh yeah, and odd time signatures

why is this the one trait that makes music good for you?

I thought odd time signatures were cool when I was like 13

>So does synthwave
which sucks
>So does vaporwave
which sucks

>>71172785
They used to play much better rock on the radio is my point

>>71172859
Yeah, that quote is from 40+ years ago.

You autists take everything so literally that as long as someone is making rock music it's not dead. No, by dead we mean culturally irrelevant.

>>71168085
Audism xD

>>71172666
I mean there are 3 basic electronic music traditions in my opinion. Japanese(chiptunes,electro,Black Midi),German(Krautrock,synthpop,industrial),and Jamacian (Dub,Dancehall). Hip hop is basically a mix of the german one and the jamacian one with rnb.

>>71172814
>>71172278
You guys do understand what a niece audience is right?

>>71175050
You do understand that niche audiences aren't relevant culturally, right?

Jazz has a niche audience, the public at large doesn't care about jazz

I dont like that much of Hip-Hop but rock is trash

>>71168339
This

>>71168257
No Gangstarr-Hard to Earn? Wtf mang

>>71168085
>Krupa
Give me one example of Gene Krupa playing polyrhythms.

>>71171235
>Yeezus is innovative
please
>Clipping
fair, but i doubt most hiphop fans like Clippings more experimental stuff
>blackie
DMX on twice the amount of crack
>Death Grips
Death Grips is barely hiphop.

>>71176085
I didn't pick the albums.

What should I swap out? What year is it from?