>Music theory can help but is definitely not needed. Kevin

>>70870331
>Kevin Shields from My Bloody Valentine said he didn't know the difference between a C and D chord when he wrote Loveless
He's full of shit.
>an album that is considered extremely complex
Sonically complex, not musically complex.

>>70870331
liar

>>70870379
>>70870386
The Beatles couldn't read music. Neither did Hendrix. It's not unheard of.

>>70870495
They knew the names of chords and shit.

>>70870331
Sounds like pure bs to me, I'd like to know how he wrote music then

>>70870807
Why write when you just press the record button?

>>70870331
>Kevin Shields from My Bloody Valentine said he didn't know the difference between a C and D chord when he wrote Loveless

>>70870379
>He's full of shit.

yeah sounds like kevin had a few too many drinks and was humble bragging, in any case, those happen to be the basic chords that the guitar is designed to play so its irrelevant whether or not you know its called C and D.

Sorry to go full autism here, but loveless he was using alternate string gauges to get alternate tunings that are wildly different than standard tuning... this isn't something that would just happen by mistake or beginners luck, he obviously got bored of standard tuning and wnated to experminet with different kinds of chords. irrelevant if he didn't know the names of em

>>70870495
>couldn't read music
sheet music that is. its not really required or pretty much any kind of music aside from classical. There are only a few artists I would be surprised that they didn't know how to read sheet music.

>>70871368
I know how to read music, but I write what comes to me in my head and then try to figure it out on guitar/piano. Theory has never helped me write new music.

Talent > Music Theory

>>70871766
exactly. its a skill you can have it doesn't necessarilly help or hurt anything...

I'm just worried a lot of young people/beginners are deterred bc the idea of being able to "read" music implies it's like a language you don't already speak... no no no , you can actually just practice a bunch and if you want to focus on "writing" music, realize it's "writing" in the sense of like coming up with ideas that can be edited and revised and kept for later. you can notate it however you see fit....

I remember (it seems kinda dumb but I will share with because its relevant) there's some video or something i remember sonic youth actually has notebooks with diagrams of all their songs... it's just like the chord shapes, some riffs are written out "guitar tab" style and the notes that the strings are tuned for every song... that was a big eye opener for me because all the high school bands were so anti theory but look SY themselves have notes on what the actual fuck their songs supposed to go like.

>>70871948
there's only 2 things that it's good for

1. playing other people's music

2. recording your ideas so you don't forget, which I seem to always do

it saves time

but old jazz players didn't read much music when they were young. they'd copy what they heard on records over and over and over

and people have smartphones to record their ideas down

also i just realized op is trolling bc mbv 2.0 is amazing.

>>70872076
MBV 3.0 is ass

but shields did some great shit on the lostintranslation ost

New album when?

>>70871948
>>70872072
but learning music *is* a language you don't already speak. of course, unlike proper languages you can appreciate and understand it to a certain degree if you don't actually know musical theory, but if you tried to write something you wouldn't come near the finesse and complexity available to those who actually know what they're doing

>>70871806
Talent + Music Theory = art music

as a person who really likes music theory and uses it a lot to make music IT IS NOT IMPORTANT if you're really a creative person you can probably make better music than most people i've met in music conservatories and stuff who have massive theory knowledge and chops out the ass.

>>70873638
, desu

>>70873638
music theory does improve the cognitive understaning you have of music and how it's built. that ends up on you having more tools at your disposal to write better pieces

>>70873638
I've never met a virtuoso that can write a good song.

I've met plenty of uneducated musicians that wrote great songs.

That's a fact.

>>70870495
they knew their theory you fucking idiot

>>70874257
writing songs and being good at your instrument are two entirely different things dumbass

>>70874515
>>70874540
virtuosos tend to know more theory than songwriters

it comes down to taste. most musicians that spend their time learning theory have poor taste in music and it reflects in their song writing.

>knowing how music works is not necessary
This is basically the "just drop out of college bro!" mentality of music

>>70874603
you have absolutely zero clue what the hell you are even talking about. Do you even play an instrument?

Why do people keep talking about this? It's really easy, learning musical theory will always help you, but sometimes you just have talent and you don't need to know too much. But that's only a few people, most people have (almost) no talent so they need theory to improve.
And most of you have no talent.

>>70874618
college is overrated

also, we're talking about a sliver of music in the western mode of 12 pre-established intervals

>>70874661
pls be bait

>>70874637
I play guitar piano and i sing

i teach music to kids and produce music on my spare time

>>70874661
College is overrated if you already possess the skills you need to do your job, but if you aren't skilled and need the knowledge of a four-year degree to do a complicated job like engineering, dropping out isn't a solution to be successful

Likewise, music theory may be redundant if you already have an intuitive sense of good songwriting, but for most people, who aren't prodigies, music theory absolutely helps

>>70870379
>sonically complex, not musically complex
this
some people have compared MBV to folk music because the music is really just simple chords and progressions that are just having the fuck distorted out of them and its kind of fair to say so

>>70874742
you can pick apart any piece of great art and say it's just this and that

it boils down to whether a person likes the way a group of notes are played in a certain order. It's called taste. No amount of theory can teach that.

>>70874686
if that's what you're teaching them I feel pretty bad for them

>>70874686
Are you teaching your students that music theory hinders creativity, too? If so stop teaching

Having faith that someone will be a good songwriter without knowing theory is a huge risk and depends on their natural ability, which may be nonexistent. However, knowledge of music theory is possible for everyone, and it's literally just a set of tools that you can choose to use or not use, either is fine, they aren't restrictions. How have you gotten this far while still possessing such an immature belief about songwriting?

>>70874686
>anyway here's wonderwall
those poor kids.

>>70874801
it's called training your ear LMAO

>>70874815
i start with oldies by the beatles and some black spirituals

then we learn to play modern pop songs that they like

but they only get excited when i challenge them to write music. i teach them improvisation with solfeggi. musical vocalization. then we figure it out on guitar and write a song.

they have fun and that's what it's about.

>>70874807

yeah i agree with this post totally! i shouldn't say it's not important, it's just not totally necessary depending on which kind of musician you want to be but it's really going to do nothing but help you if you learn it, it's a language kind of there is nothing negative to be gained from it if you learn it.

>>70874807
every student is different

if i tell them how to build major and minor chords, they'll just lose all interest in music

people have reasons why they want to play an instrument. i let them lead me. i do teach theory but only when necessary. i try not to go beyond 7 chords. these are kids, mind you. i have to keep it fun and exciting.

when i write my own music, i try my hardest to forget theory and hear it in my head

>>70873602
"art music"

People who say this are shitty lofi musicians who are too lazy to spend time learning some music theory and get some bizarre enjoyment from saying "well at least I don't know music theory!"

>>70875455
muh theory hacks

File: dobertoad.jpg (25KB, 500x480px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 500x480px

Every time they post examples of musicians who didn't need music theory to be "good" it's a shit artist.

Which just makes me think how important music theory actually is.

>>70870331
Kevin Shields has permanent tinnitus and hearing loss, that's why MBV sucked

>>70873602
*tips fedora*

And no you certainly don't need to know theory to make art rock.

>>70870331
It's easier to break the rules when you know them.

>>70876762
>Inb4 The Shaggs
It's not a good example, because they were technically inept and were forced to make music.

>>70871368
I agree with what you said, but there's no proof he used unusual string sets. He could've just used any set of 9s or 10s. From what I heard, at a point he just used regular GHS boomer 10s.

>>70870331
>Kevin Shields from My Bloody Valentine said he didn't know the difference between a C and D chord when he wrote Loveless
As in what? Didn't know the logic behind it? What does not knowing the difference mean here?

>>70874603
This is an extremely shitty opinion.

>>70874603
>most musicians that spend their time learning theory have poor taste in music and it reflects in their song writing.
Have you ever listened to jazz or classical music perhaps? It's all garbage according to you because jazz and classical musicians know music theory very well?