So he had a full band and each member had a ton of instrumentation

And what is it that he actually wrote and what is it that the musicians wrote, and how did this happen the way it did?

You just have to have a strong vision, you have to know what you want. Music consists of phrases and lines, you don't have to play the instrument to figure out the lines and what you want to do with them.

>>70661461
>you don't have to play the instrument to figure out the lines and what you want to do with them.
what do you mean

and what is the process by which these musicians communicate their vision? I only know how to make music where I have complete control over every facet (which is exhausting and clearly not what these people did)

It depends on a musician to musician basis. Maybe these guys had everything in mind, and planned it all out akin to a classical music composer. Many composers only knew of what other instruments can do, but not exactly be able to play them so they can still use those instruments within their arrangements.

Or maybe it's a deal that's more like a film director where it's a bunch of disparate parts made by others, but it's all put together by the main musician. An approach similar to Kanye West on his post-MBDTF records.

>>70661361
outside of classical or electronic music it's rare that the guy "writing the music" writes down all the parts - if there's a specified arranger it's more likely that some individual parts were actually noted down by someone

the writer might specify more or less loosely how he wants band members to play, but in rock music the composer writing specific parts for all instruments generally just does not happen - small combo jazz makes a virtue of this, even

bump out of interest

>>70661361
Tim had some god-tier pipes. His son too.
In fact, I think they have my favorite male vocals in music.

>>70661499
Well backing bands usually contain very experienced musicians who can come up with good parts for themselves play based on the chord progression and melody of the song that the song writer gives them to perform. Of course sometime the song writer will write and arrange all the parts and just tell the backing band what to play.

>>70661361
I don't know if Tim knew how to read or write music, though it's possible he actually transcribed the music for the other musicians to play. Either that or he just had the parts in his head, played them on piano or guitar, and had them play it on their respective instruments.

Obviously this is different for every songwriter. People like Dylan, Nick Drake, and Van Morrison probably gave very little technical direction to their session musicians. They probably more made use vague ideas or conceptual direction on how they wanted the song to go, and they all worked with that. I know Nick Drake had some arrangers who probably worked without his involvement whatsoever.

I think someone like Tom Waits may have done more of a Buckley approach as they seem a bit more knowledgeable with theory type stuff.

Joanna Newsom does in fact have a strong basis in theory and does actually write out some of the parts for her musicians, though she does have other arrangers to help. Obviously Van Dyke Parks handled most of that on Ys, while Ryan Francesconi helped her on HooM and Divers.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but this is just what I generally have assumed.

>>70661545
>>70661392
this guys got it
the band are important to the way it sounds, and any improvisations make everything nice - but licks and chord progressions and overall things are usually down to 'the writer' of the piece.

but you can't get everything you want - and in these albums (especially starsailor) the improvisations are important - in fact i'm sure tim buckley asked the drummer e.t.c to improvise

So for blonde on blonde - Bob Dylan wrote the songs, and then got a band to play them 20 times and pick the one that sounded most like he wanted

>>70664133
>>70664025
interesting, thanks

I feel like putting a bunch of posters up and asking for skilled musicians to play music with

What was the process of rehearsal for these kinds of artists and their bands, though? Like how long do they take and what was the way that the musicians were instructed through? Were they all in a room at the same time or did they have to be taught the songs' structure individually?

>>70664937
maybe listen to the pet sounds sessions - or good vibrations sessions
it walks you through brian wilsons process of getting what he wanted from a song